Did Anyone Else Have Their HK Credits Reduced Today?

[Richelle]

Apparently we are talking about two different things.

You're talking about a complicated application program and I'm talking about a database consisting of files with records of fields of data.
I only have to know the record structure to change a field..

And this is exactly why I know you’re not qualified to know what’s a simple fix and what isn’t. It’s not a simple record change. That record change can potentially affect multiple things. This is what I kept telling my developers. They assumed the same thing you did and every time, something broke because it didn’t occur to them that that something was affected by their simple change. I’m not sure what kind of systems you worked with, but if you think this is a simple record fix, then it wasn’t overly complicated. Criticize them for their site being buggy, but don’t act like you know more then you do.

Writing the script to make the change is simple. Running it is simple. Anticipating everything that will be affected, not so simple.

 

[Richelle]

We own 413,000 points so 413,000 / 70,000 = 5 new reservation credits, my yearly issue. Because of Points Deposit in 2019 we had 490,000 = 7 new credits.
Because of March 2020 Points Deposit into 2021 of 271,000 points and four stays we had 0 HCs before the update.
After the update last week we had 5 new HCs, yesterday we had 0.

I'm assuming that because of the Points Deposit into 2021, they reduced my allocation to 490,000 - 271,000 = 219,000 when / 70,000 = 3. We used 4, so 0 now.

I don't plan on traveling again this year, but when I transferred points to 2021 it was understood that I could borrow them back which can't be done now.

I just realized after I typed my last post, you’re probably exactly the kind of person I had to work with at my old job. They couldn’t see past their own little world so that was half the reason they made mistakes that affected my workload. It was more important to get them to see the bigger picture then it is you, so I’m done. I’m not wasting anymore time. You want to be a armchair developer, go for it. You can continue to be frustrated. It’s not my problem.

 

[Richelle]

And Wyndham's decision to go with just rolling out fixes and not doing any beta testing beyond the limited amount they did at the start of this sprint is entirely to blame for the problems that are occurring. While the site is significantly better than when first rolled out, it still has way to many problems for a site that involves Billions of dollars of customer's money. The bank analogy is spot on. I can tell you I would get fired if we (the IT department I have run for the last 20 years) rolled out something that was this buggy at the start and is being fixed a tiny bit at a time. It is all a simple fix. Spend an appropriate amount of money on the correct amount of qualified staff and don't release anything until it is THOROUGHLY tested. Anything else is just a subpar response. Wyndham has a long history of skimping on IT. I have no doubt that many, maybe even most, of the IT staff are competent and that the problems are a result of overwork. Your knee jerk response is that no one should criticize them because "we don't have inside knowledge". Our investments in Wyndham give us the right to criticize. On the Maintenance fee comparison, you are way off base. no one says the systems are the same, dgalati was correctly pointing out that somehow Wyndhan always devotes enough resources to that system to ensure they get their money.

I’m done talking to a brick wall. Go ahead and continue thinking you know more. Your frustration is not my problem.

 

[Roger830]

And this is exactly why I know you’re not qualified to know what’s a simple fix and what isn’t. It’s not a simple record change. That record change can potentially affect multiple things. This is what I kept telling my developers. They assumed the same thing you did and every time, something broke because it didn’t occur to them that that something was affected by their simple change. I’m not sure what kind of systems you worked with, but if you think this is a simple record fix, then it wasn’t overly complicated. Criticize them for their site being buggy, but don’t act like you know more then you do.

Here's my pseudo code for the update. I even have a routine to convert the housekeeping credits to an integer. 2020 is more complicated than 2021 because some reservations could have been used and points deposit into 2021 reduces credits. The first update was terrible. They used Award Credits for each year instead of Use Year Credits that include Points Deposit.
By the way, I'm glad that I never worked for you.

Routine GetInteger
HC = 0
LOOPTOP
UseYear Credits = UseYearCredits – 70000
If UseYearCredits less than 70000 Goto EXITLOOP
HC = HC + 1
Goto LOOPTOP
EXITLOOP
If HC = 0 Than HC = 1 {note: assigns 1 if less than 70,000 credits}
End of Routine

Program UpdateHousekeepingCredits

LOOP1
ReadMemberRecord (Member Master File)
If end of file Than Goto END

{note: process member for 2020}
{note: UseYearCredits are total housekeeping credits after Points Deposit}
UseYearCredits = UseYearCredits2020 – (UseYearCredits2021 - AwardCredits2021)
{note: calcs credits remaining after points deposit into 2021}

GetInteger {converts UseYearCredits to HC}

LOOP2
Read Member Transaction 2020
If end of member Than Goto EXITLOOP2
If Reservation Then
HC = HC – 1
If Reservation Still Active than ReservationHC = 1 {update reservation}
If Canceled Reservation HC = HC + 1
Goto LOOP2
EXITLOOP2
UseYearCredits2020 = HC
{process 2021}
UseYearCredits = UseYearCredits2021
GetInteger

LOOP3
Read Member Reservation 2021
If end of member Than Goto EXITLOOP3
HC = HC – 1
ReservationHC = 1 {update reservation}
Goto LOOP3
EXITLOOP3
UseYearCredits2021 = HC
{process 2022}
UseYearCredits = UseYearCredits2022
GetInteger
UseYearCredits2022 = HC
Goto LOOP1
END

 

[dgalati]

Here's my pseudo code for the update. I even have a routine to convert the housekeeping credits to an integer. 2020 is more complicated than 2021 because some reservations could have been used and points deposit into 2021 reduces credits. The first update was terrible. They used Award Credits for each year instead of Use Year Credits that include Points Deposit.
By the way, I'm glad that I never worked for you.

Routine GetInteger
HC = 0
LOOPTOP
UseYear Credits = UseYearCredits – 70000
If UseYearCredits less than 70000 Goto EXITLOOP
HC = HC + 1
Goto LOOPTOP
EXITLOOP
If HC = 0 Than HC = 1 {note: assigns 1 if less than 70,000 credits}
End of Routine

Program UpdateHousekeepingCredits

LOOP1
ReadMemberRecord (Member Master File)
If end of file Than Goto END

{note: process member for 2020}
{note: UseYearCredits are total housekeeping credits after Points Deposit}
UseYearCredits = UseYearCredits2020 – (UseYearCredits2021 - AwardCredits2021)
{note: calcs credits remaining after points deposit into 2021}

GetInteger {converts UseYearCredits to HC}

LOOP2
Read Member Transaction 2020
If end of member Than Goto EXITLOOP2
If Reservation Then
HC = HC – 1
If Reservation Still Active than ReservationHC = 1 {update reservation}
If Canceled Reservation HC = HC + 1
Goto LOOP2
EXITLOOP2
UseYearCredits2020 = HC
{process 2021}
UseYearCredits = UseYearCredits2021
GetInteger

LOOP3
Read Member Reservation 2021
If end of member Than Goto EXITLOOP3
HC = HC – 1
ReservationHC = 1 {update reservation}
Goto LOOP3
EXITLOOP3
UseYearCredits2021 = HC
{process 2022}
UseYearCredits = UseYearCredits2022
GetInteger
UseYearCredits2022 = HC
Goto LOOP1
END

Looks like a pretty simple fix to me.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Apparently we are talking about two different things.

You're talking about a complicated application program and I'm talking about a database consisting of files with records of fields of data.
I only have to know the record structure to change a field. I don't even have to use the same programming language as the application. It can be done manually with an editor or automatically with a program. The programming is simple, often the problem is defining the rules.

Where you are coming up short is making the false assumption that your code, again, is targeted to an older single tier application architecture. You are assuming that the front office website (using AEP) is somehow calculating the actual result. It is not. Your coding example is therefore oversimplified, and while I can appreciate the desire to show your skills - it’s really a pointless endeavor in the final analysis since neither you nor I have access to the actual systems in scope. I know what systems are in use at each tier, but not much beyond that since I’m not a Wyndham employee. Fixing the back end values in the database, even if we assume for a moment that’s valid, is useless if the API calls in the middleware are actually producing the potential product defect. It would fix the account for a moment in time until the data is altered via the middleware system specific to a possible product defect after which the problem recurs and then its back to square one. The product defect, if there is one, needs to be identified via RCA and then a fix needs to be documented and implemented in such a way that all upstream and downstream processes and code are also corrected in a holistic manner.

Your analysis also assumes that the back end system is always the source of record at all times. At a macro level this is true, but with a three tiered architecture oftentimes the middleware caches changes made during established windows and then certain batch processing occurs on a scheduled basis to update the back office systems in a manner that ensures all downstream impacts are properly accounted for. This is likely why people on this forum are seeing changes to their credits. I expect these issues will be remediated in subsequent sprints.

For those who are not seeing what you expect, I would recommend contacting Owner Care and working with them to ensure your credits are correct. I’m a VIP so I have no reason to do so myself. Please do keep us posted on what you find out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Roger830]

I would recommend contacting Owner Care and working with them to ensure your credits are correct. I’m a VIP so I have no reason to do so myself. Please do keep us posted on what you find out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

One of the problems here is vip's didn't see the results of the update.

It's obvious to me that for 2021, they did something similar to my code.
The big error was they used award credits instead of use year credits for each of the three years.
My award each year is 413,000 / 70000 = 5
They than gave 5 for 2020, which I didn't deserve, 5 for 2022, and for 2021 they gave me 0 because of 6 reservations, they changed 5 of the reservation HCs to 1 (like I'm doing) and the final one to 0.
The problem is I transferred 271,000 points into 2021 which they could easily have picked up by using use year credits instead award credits.
Owner care agreed that there was an error, opened a case, then credited me with the proper amount.

I'm only duplicating what they did, but I'm doing it correctly by using data visible on my home page, the use year credits.

 

[Richelle]

Where you are coming up short is making the false assumption that your code, again, is targeted to an older single tier application architecture. You are assuming that the front office website (using AEP) is somehow calculating the actual result. It is not. Your coding example is therefore oversimplified, and while I can appreciate the desire to show your skills - it’s really a pointless endeavor in the final analysis since neither you nor I have access to the actual systems in scope. I know what systems are in use at each tier, but not much beyond that since I’m not a Wyndham employee. Fixing the back end values in the database, even if we assume for a moment that’s valid, is useless if the API calls in the middleware are actually producing the potential product defect. It would fix the account for a moment in time until the data is altered via the middleware system specific to a possible product defect after which the problem recurs and then its back to square one. The product defect, if there is one, needs to be identified via RCA and then a fix needs to be documented and implemented in such a way that all upstream and downstream processes and code are also corrected in a holistic manner.

Your analysis also assumes that the back end system is always the source of record at all times. At a macro level this is true, but with a three tiered architecture oftentimes the middleware caches changes made during established windows and then certain batch processing occurs on a scheduled basis to update the back office systems in a manner that ensures all downstream impacts are properly accounted for. This is likely why people on this forum are seeing changes to their credits. I expect these issues will be remediated in subsequent sprints.

For those who are not seeing what you expect, I would recommend contacting Owner Care and working with them to ensure your credits are correct. I’m a VIP so I have no reason to do so myself. Please do keep us posted on what you find out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wanted to go in with the technical details but because he thought it was so simple, I assumed those would go over his head. Anyone with familiarity with everything you mentioned would know better then to call it simple. I see now that I should not have tried to simplify it for someone who was over simplifying it. I usually default to trying to explain things on a level they can understand but obviously I couldn’t explain it in a way he would understand.

 

[Richelle]

By the way, I'm glad that I never worked for you.

That’s actually funny because I was thinking you would hate working for me. I held my developers accountable for their work and mistakes. Before I got there, there was constant emergency fixes going on either because they were doing stuff on the fly, not testing and going straight to production, or just plain doing what they want. By the time I left, if the metrics were to be believed, we went from having 92% system up time to 99.4% up time. For the last .6%, Very rarely was system downtime due to bugs. It was usually because of the database host having issues that affected multiple systems. The reason for the improved uptime is because 1. I worked with the change management team to update the change management procedures they were ignoring. 2. Refused any deployments to prod that were not tested in the lower 4 environments. Boy did they hate that. They also had to have all approvals completed, testing results posted, and detailed deployment instructions. 3. Making then see the bigger picture by showing them how their change would affect a downstream process, a scheduled job, etc. the developers were focused on their part and didn’t see how their part affected the bigger picture. These were experienced developers. No one made them stop and think before acting. 5. Took away their access to prod and stage. Both prod and stage had to be as identical as possible. Developers like to tinker and change things without telling others what they were doing. Too many cooks in the kitchen situation. By taking away their access, they couldn’t change the environments. So testing would be more accurate. There were other things I did, but this is getting to long.

Oh and I wasn’t a dictator or anything. I just pushed them to be better. I made it clear that’s what I was doing. They did better and produced better product. Once they saw what they were doing was having a negative effect on the system, they wanted to do better. Once they learned how the change management process protected them, they got onboard. I don’t believe in status quo. I believe in moving forward and constantly improving things. Some people like to remain where they are and don’t like change. IT is not the best career field for them to be in.

 

[Roger830]

I wanted to go in with the technical details but because he thought it was so simple, I assumed those would go over his head. Anyone with familiarity with everything you mentioned would know better then to call it simple. I see now that I should not have tried to simplify it for someone who was over simplifying it. I usually default to trying to explain things on a level they can understand but obviously I couldn’t explain it in a way he would understand.

This indicates to me that you don't have a clue as to what you're taking about.

My code correctly duplicates what they did for 2021 with some details not in there such as checking for vip status.

 

[paxsarah]

For those who are not seeing what you expect, I would recommend contacting Owner Care and working with them to ensure your credits are correct.

Part of the problem is at this point, I'm not sure what's correct. Or what Wyndham was trying to do when they made two adjustments after the initial allocation. The other part of the problem for me is that I am not short of HK credits for any actual reservations I might want to make based on my plans, so I'm not actually missing anything I need and contacting Owner Care seems like a waste of their and my time.

In terms of correctness, the initial allocations right after the change seemed most correct to me. Sure, they did give me 3/3 HK for 2020 (should have been 1/3 if they applied it retroactively based on past 2020 reservations), but I figured hey, it's November, maybe they didn't want to mess with the current UY and it's not like most of those extra HKs will get used before the end of the year anyway. (I'm out of points for 2020.) And they gave me 3/5 HK for 2021 which I considered spot on based on my use year allocation assuming they round down, and I have 2 reservations currently in 2021.

Then, Wyndham appears to have made some changes to the 2021 allocations possibly based on people's complaints about having points deposited points to 2021 along with old housekeeping credits prior to the change, and my 2021 HK went to 4/6. I don't know where the 6 came from. It doesn't correspond to my total 2021 points including regular UY plus points deposit (that would be 8), and if they're rounding down, it should be 5. If they decided to round up it could be 6, but since when does Wyndham round up?

Then this most recent change, now I'm at 3/6 for 2021. Like I said, 3/5 seemed correct for me initially. 3/6 doesn't seem to have any basis because I've only made 2 reservations in 2021, so my remaining credits should be 2 fewer than my allocation, whatever they decide that is. But I only have around 40,000 points left in 2021, so I'm not planning to use 3 or 4 (or even 1) HK credits for the rest of 2021. (My current plan will be to deposit them to 2022.) So I don't really have a practical basis to contact Owner Care because their weirdo accounting for HK isn't preventing me from doing anything I want to do.

It also might be a good time to bring back up the issue I raised in this post, in that there is no indication on my points summary page of my actual use year allotment for any year in which points were deposited. I only see the total after deposit. I can piece it together based on the transaction history or my own knowledge of my contract point totals, but it's not spelled out for me to see. This is an issue for things like ARP, and it's also an issue for now calculating whether someone's HK credits are showing correctly.

 

[kaljor]

When I made the original post my main gripe was that my points deposited to 2021 back in March didn't get me an additional HK credit in 2021. I mentioned the take back of 4 of my 2020 HK credits not as a gripe, but as a comment on the pettiness of back charging me for vacations I had already taken under the old system when I felt that the HK credits I had at those points in time should cover those stays. But after I typed it I realized that even though it was meaningless to me because my use year ends on 12/31, people who have a use year ending in March or June could be hurt if they were also back charged for their completed vacations

On the other topic, I too get frustrated hearing people in any field thinking they know better about how to do a job. Complain about the issue or problem, don't demean the people who are doing the work as well as they can.

 

[Melder]

When making reservations for 2022, are the Housekeeping Credits deducted from 2021 (like they do with Reservation Transactions) or 2022?

 

[paxsarah]

When making reservations for 2022, are the Housekeeping Credits deducted from 2021 (like they do with Reservation Transactions) or 2022?

2022. Basically, HK credits come with the points, whereas reservation transactions are simply within the calendar year you make the booking.

 

[Eric B]

When making reservations for 2022, are the Housekeeping Credits deducted from 2021 (like they do with Reservation Transactions) or 2022?

That's a good question. I couldn't tell you what the answer really is as I'm legacy/grandfathered VIPG and have unlimited HKs, but there is only one entry on my points display screen for HKs and for transactions, which makes me wonder. How was it done before?

 

[tschwa2]

When making reservations for 2022, are the Housekeeping Credits deducted from 2021 (like they do with Reservation Transactions) or 2022?

HK credits are linked to the points use year not the calendar year, but they don't transfer with the points. So if you borrow points you would be using hk credits associated with the current use year. If you move points forward you don't get to move the HK credits with the points.

 

[Melder]

HK credits are linked to the points use year not the calendar year, but they don't transfer with the points. So if you borrow points you would be using hk credits associated with the current use year. If you move points forward you don't get to move the HK credits with the points.

Thank you. Odd how I booked in 2020, but my 2021 housekeeping credits decreased.

 

[Eric B]

HK credits are linked to the points use year not the calendar year, but they don't transfer with the points. So if you borrow points you would be using hk credits associated with the current use year. If you move points forward you don't get to move the HK credits with the points.

That make more sense and better matches what it says about the usage in the original thing they posted.

 

[bogey21]

I'm just glad I don't have thousands of dollars invested in the Wyndham product(s). It would drive me nuts...

George

 

[b2bailey]

When I first saw this topic I didn't have any thoughts about future reservations, so I didn't bother to read any of it. And then, when I learned they weren't charging the reservation fee, I attempted to book a 2 night stay. Imagine my surprise when I was shown a $139 housekeeping fee. Say What? I dropped it like a hot potato. Reading through this posting -- quickly -- since the programming parts were of no interest to me -- I was surprised by no mention of $$ fees. Perhaps there is another thread I missed that is more about impact of change?

 

[ausman]

From the recent changes to the housekeeping fees "If you run out of housekeeping credits, you may complete your reservation by purchasing additional credits for $159 per credit at the time of booking."

Sounds like you had run out. They are supposed to be issued 1 for each 70k.

See this from the Wyndham site: https://clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinat...ner-guide/resources/housekeeping-credits.html

 

[paxsarah]

@b2bailey And if your housekeeping credits for 2021 don't seem to line up with your expectations based on your use year points and the number of reservations you've made for this year, definitely call Wyndham and ask for an explanation. After the initial rollout, Wyndham made a couple of adjustments to those numbers, and they may just be off. They may be willing to adjust them with a call.

 

[Sandy VDH]

Certainly glad I have UHK account. Glad by VIPP perks are actually worth a little more today.

 

[paxsarah]

Certainly glad I have UHK account. Glad by VIPP perks are actually worth a little more today.

I'm glad my ownership and vacation style are such that I generally didn't have to worry about running out of housekeeping in the old system, and I still don't expect to run out of housekeeping credits in the new system - and I'm surely not alone. Your VIPP perks are worth exactly the same as they were before -- the peace of mind of not having to worry about housekeeping.

 

[Lisa P]

And if your housekeeping credits for 2021 don't seem to line up... definitely call Wyndham and ask for an explanation.... They may be willing to adjust them with a call.

Yes, I did this tonight. It's been over a month since Owner Care suggested I wait a little while to see if IT would straighten it out but they haven't. So I called back tonight and waited some time on hold - high call volume. They were very reasonable and accommodating, corrected the number of Housekeeping Credits in my account. They also returned a free Transaction which had been erroneously deducted when I made a new reservation yesterday while there's a promotion with no transaction fee for new reservations made up until midnight. Just call Club Wyndham reservations and ask for Owner Care.