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Did Anyone Else Have Their HK Credits Reduced Today?

kaljor

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On the 12th when Wyndham made the switch to the new system they gave me a full years worth of credits for the remainder of the year (my use year is Jan to Dec).
Nice gesture, but a bit hollow since it's pretty difficult to use a year of HK credits within 6 weeks. But that's what they did. They also deducted from my 2021 total 3 credits for the 3 reservations I had made months ago. That struck me as a little unfair, especially since I also deposited a decent amount of 2020 points into 2021, back in March before there was any hint of the new system. As you all know, at that point HK credits went along with any deposited points.

I saw in the other HK Credits thread that some people had their 2021 HK totals adjusted upwards somewhat. maybe due to deposited points, so I've been checking every day but mine stayed the same; 3 of my 2021 HK credits were used for my existing 2021 reservations and no additional credits have been added.

I was getting ready to call today to see if I could get some of those credits restored, and when I checked my points summary I found that they have now deducted 4 HK credits for the current year for the 4 reservations I already used this year. Because I'm not going to be staying at a Wyndham for the rest of the year, there's no direct harm, but I was wondering if anyone else noticed this.
 

Sandi Bo

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This doesn't affect me, as my HK is unlimited. But in general, come on Wyndham!!!!! My last 7 years I worked for a company that provided coaching and wellness programs to employers. We supported an employee health incentives platform (Health Assessments, rewards for losing weight, exercising, lower glucose numbers, eating heathy). NEVER did we take away a reward that was erroneously rewarded. We ate it.

Maybe if Wyndham took some accountability/responsibility for their actions they'd be a little more cautious with some of this stuff?
 
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Roger830

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On the 12th when Wyndham made the switch to the new system they gave me a full years worth of credits for the remainder of the year (my use year is Jan to Dec).
Nice gesture, but a bit hollow since it's pretty difficult to use a year of HK credits within 6 weeks. But that's what they did. They also deducted from my 2021 total 3 credits for the 3 reservations I had made months ago. That struck me as a little unfair, especially since I also deposited a decent amount of 2020 points into 2021, back in March before there was any hint of the new system. As you all know, at that point HK credits went along with any deposited points.

I saw in the other HK Credits thread that some people had their 2021 HK totals adjusted upwards somewhat. maybe due to deposited points, so I've been checking every day but mine stayed the same; 3 of my 2021 HK credits were used for my existing 2021 reservations and no additional credits have been added.

I was getting ready to call today to see if I could get some of those credits restored, and when I checked my points summary I found that they have now deducted 4 HK credits for the current year for the 4 reservations I already used this year. Because I'm not going to be staying at a Wyndham for the rest of the year, there's no direct harm, but I was wondering if anyone else noticed this.
Mine are now gone.

I was thinking that they gave us credits for this year because under the new rules we can no longer borrow them.
Perhaps because of covid, they want to discourage new bookings this year.
 
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spackler

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Yep, just checked. My 2020 HKs went from 6 to 0.
 

liquidmas

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The credit they gave me on 12th fir 2020 is gone. I would not have used it. The credit I paid for to move points forward is still in the future use use batch. My HK credits are now correct in my account.
 

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Mine are now gone.

Perhaps because of covid, they want to discourage new bookings this year.
Considering I got a Wyndham Pulse email about points discount deals that are happening now, I don't think that's the case. If they wanted to discourage bookings, they wouldn't have any specials meant to encourage people to travel, much less advertise them. I actually think it's the opposite. They want people to travel. For one, they still need the points sales, and their current customers are the easiest to sell to because they have already experienced the product. VIPs have already demonstrated they are willing to invest in Wyndham, so they make good sales leads as well. One of the sales managers said about 93% of their points sales come from resorts. Also, the more people that use their points this year, the fewer people have to use next year. Availability is going to be tighter than normal with all these points being moved forward. I have almost 2.9 million points worth of reservations made next year. That's almost double my yearly allotment because I rolled over my maximum allowed points.
 

Roger830

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Considering I got a Wyndham Pulse email about points discount deals that are happening now, I don't think that's the case. If they wanted to discourage bookings, they wouldn't have any specials meant to encourage people to travel, much less advertise them. I actually think it's the opposite. They want people to travel.
They sure have strange ways to encourage travel.

The programming required to update the files is quite simple and basic data processing. The update should have been done in one day, not two weeks.
It seems that there must be poor communications between management and IT, and/or perhaps the current IT analyst doesn't understand the booking system.
 
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Richelle

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They sure have strange ways to encourage travel.

The programming required to update the files is quite simple and basic data processing. The update should have been done in one day, not two weeks.
It seems that there must be poor communications between management and IT, and/or perhaps the current IT analyst doesn't understand the booking system.
So you know what goes on behind the curtain? What their database platform is? What applications they use? What programming language they use? What systems their system has to interface with? Do you know every process that runs on the system? It's easy to be an armchair developer and frankly, I am getting tired of people saying they could do better when they know nothing about what is going on behind the curtain. I supported an application that had so many turning gears, it was difficult to determine every downstream process that would be affected by any given change. By the time I left, most things were documented, but I have no doubt there were still some old processes hiding in the shadows that were there long before I was. Have you ever seen a picture of the inside of a clock with what looked like hundreds of gears? That was our system. I don't know much about what goes on behind their curtain. Just the basics. However, I do know what it's like to manage a system that has hundreds of interfaces, multiple databases, thousands of scheduled jobs, hundreds of services, and a couple hundred thousand customers. Any number of changes can affect something else. Hopefully, they are documenting their processes now. I am not sure how good the documentation process was prior to this website. I also know what it's like to have people think they know how to do your job better than you do, when they know nothing about their job. If you know everything that goes on behind the curtain, then you're qualified to say you can do better. Until then, you're not. The reason they take @HitchHiker71 and I seriously is because we understand many of the principles and technology they use. We also understand some of the difficulties they face and can sympathize with them.

Also, you know nothing about the communication that goes on within their organization. They are running on a two-week sprint schedule. Changes and non-urgent fixes go in every two weeks, not on the fly. When you do stuff on the fly, things get sloppy. Anyone who has a basic understanding of change management processes knows that. If the way they do their change management bothers you so much, contact them. Being an armchair developer, complaining here on TUG, doesn't change anything. Reach out to them yourself and tell them how they can do it better.
 

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Reach out to them yourself and tell them how they can do it better.
About two hours ago I completed a survey about my owner care experience.
I was very pleased with the resolution of my 2021 missing credits done by the Owner Resolution & Strategy Specialist.
However, I did comment on how poorly the update was handled similar to my comments here.

It doesn't matter what programming language they're using or system interfaces. We're talking about updating records in a database using information already present.

I noticed only three of us commented here that we lost credits for 2020. I also noticed that all three of us used Points Deposit into 2021. I suspect that they reduced our 2020 credits by those deposits and any reservations. I don't care about 2020, but I did assumed that I could borrow HCs from 2021 when I did the deposit. By removing that option they are discouraging me from traveling.
 
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Richelle

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About two hours ago I completed a survey about my owner care experience.
I was very pleased with my resolution of my 2021 missing credits done by my Owner Resolution & Strategy Specialist.
However, I did comment on how poorly the update was handled similar to my comments here.

I noticed only three of us commented here that we lost credits for 2020. I also noticed that all three of us used Points Deposit into 2021. I suspect that they reduced our 2020 credits by those deposits and any reservations. I don't care about 2020, but I did assumed that I could borrow HCs from 2021 when I did the deposit. Apparently their sophisticated computer system didn't tell them that by removing that option they are discouraging me from traveling.
For me, I wasn't satisfied with just filling out a feedback form. We found a way to get directly to the people who could actually do something about it. And they did. They made a lot of changes and fixes based on feedback we collected here and on Facebook. They do get the feedback forms, but they don't always provide enough information. When we give them feedback, we give them details. We have spreadsheets, screenshots, logs, etc. Anything that can do to help them find the issue and fix it faster we do. We do it because we actually care enough to do it. We care about other owners who are affected by this and want to help them as much as possible. You're content with being an armchair developer and filling out a feedback form, while the rest of us do more. I'm not referring to just @HitchHiker71 and I. Many here put in a great deal of effort to get them the information they needed to get the issues fixed. They made a huge difference. Where were you?
 

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For me, I wasn't satisfied with just filling out a feedback form. We found a way to get directly to the people who could actually do something about it. And they did. They made a lot of changes and fixes based on feedback we collected here and on Facebook. They do get the feedback forms, but they don't always provide enough information. When we give them feedback, we give them details. We have spreadsheets, screenshots, logs, etc. Anything that can do to help them find the issue and fix it faster we do. We do it because we actually care enough to do it. We care about other owners who are affected by this and want to help them as much as possible. You're content with being an armchair developer and filling out a feedback form, while the rest of us do more. I'm not referring to just @HitchHiker71 and I. Many here put in a great deal of effort to get them the information they needed to get the issues fixed. They made a huge difference. Where were you?
It's too late for me to advise them now, the damage is done. Apparently at some level there is incompetence.
I admire what you're doing to help members. I don't see any roll for me to play.
 

Richelle

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It's too late for me to advise them now, the damage is done. Apparently at some level there is incompetence.
I admire what you're doing to help members. I don't see any roll for me to play.
I can tell you what role not to play. Armchair developer. Vent your frustrations about it being screwed up if you want. Just don't diminish the hard work they have done to make things better, by acting like it's simple to fix and calling them incompetant. You're like a family doctor who thinks they can do heart surgery simply because they went to medical school and has knowledge of how the human body works. I've been in their position, and it is extremely frustrating when someone with no knowledge of what is going on thinks they know better. Being in that position before makes me more sensitive to their plight than others might be.
 

HitchHiker71

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It doesn't matter what programming language they're using or system interfaces. We're talking about updating records in a database using information already present.
Of course it matters what languages and APIs are used, as those languages and APIs have inherent limitations in so far as what changes can be made through the middleware system and how those changes are made via the available API calls.

The digital transformation team responsible for the front office web interface has zero access to the back office systems by design. These days what you are assuming - that the system has direct access to change the source database - is no longer how systems are designed due to inherent security issues endemic to all legacy systems designed like this in the past. The front office system uses a middleware system via APIs to make back office data updates. It’s a three tiered security and application architecture. It’s also a multi-database back office system at least in part due to various legacy systems that have yet to be modernized at that level. So the assumption that it’s a simple database change is really not accurate.

Specific to the HK issue - were the 2020 HK credits lost or were they simply moved to 2021?


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HitchHiker71

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It's too late for me to advise them now, the damage is done. Apparently at some level there is incompetence.
I admire what you're doing to help members. I don't see any roll for me to play.
Changes can always be rolled back or altered if something within the system is not working correctly, and datasets can be reverted in a targeted manner when necessary. If we have an actual problem in play here we can certainly capture some data and get this issue in front of the right people.

No system is perfect, and every system I’ve ever worked on has product defects despite targeted test cases and associated QA efforts. The test systems are never an exact mirror of production and therefore when certain changes are implemented in production systems, sometimes issues are reported that were not captured in current test cases that QA covers, or certain interdependencies were not documented or identified that resulted in the test cases for a certain section of code not being included during the QA process. Unless a full regression is run prior to every sprint release, which is all but impossible, possible issues will not be uncovered during QA prior to sprint release into production.


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Roger830

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Specific to the HK issue - were the 2020 HK credits lost or were they simply moved to 2021?


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We own 413,000 points so 413,000 / 70,000 = 5 new reservation credits, my yearly issue. Because of Points Deposit in 2019 we had 490,000 = 7 new credits.
Because of March 2020 Points Deposit into 2021 of 271,000 points and four stays we had 0 HCs before the update.
After the update last week we had 5 new HCs, yesterday we had 0.

I'm assuming that because of the Points Deposit into 2021, they reduced my allocation to 490,000 - 271,000 = 219,000 when / 70,000 = 3. We used 4, so 0 now.

I don't plan on traveling again this year, but when I transferred points to 2021 it was understood that I could borrow them back which can't be done now.
 
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HitchHiker71

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Just curious - has anyone who is saying they now have zero HK credits for UY 2020 actually attempted to make a UY 2020 reservation just to validate if the system attempts to upcharge, or if it allows you to borrow from future use years?


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wjappraise

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Wyndham IT.

As a long suffering member who has watched new platform after new platform roll out to horrible results, I reserve the right to call it like I see it. And while this rollout appears to be better than most, it still has far too many bugs.

I do not subscribe to the school of thought that I dare not criticize IT if I don’t have behind the scenes knowledge about how the “sausage is made.” It reminds me of my grandfather’s favorite saying “you don’t have to be a farmer to know dirt when you see it.”

So I’m not a programmer but that doesn’t diminish me (or any other poster here) from being able to correctly criticize IT. This is not a game website. It’s a transactional platform that involves billions of dollars a year. And yet Wyndham IT continues to roll out buggy updates that don’t accurately track MY money! Would you be so patient if your bank took two weeks to fix your missing checking account because they didn’t beta test their new website? No way! And the feds would fine that bank heavily.

Why would we not criticize them? They are playing with our money.

Enough already.

Wes.
 

dgalati

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Wyndham IT.

As a long suffering member who has watched new platform after new platform roll out to horrible results, I reserve the right to call it like I see it. And while this rollout appears to be better than most, it still has far too many bugs.

I do not subscribe to the school of thought that I dare not criticize IT if I don’t have behind the scenes knowledge about how the “sausage is made.” It reminds me of my grandfather’s favorite saying “you don’t have to be a farmer to know dirt when you see it.”

So I’m not a programmer but that doesn’t diminish me (or any other poster here) from being able to correctly criticize IT. This is not a game website. It’s a transactional platform that involves billions of dollars a year. And yet Wyndham IT continues to roll out buggy updates that don’t accurately track MY money! Would you be so patient if your bank took two weeks to fix your missing checking account because they didn’t beta test their new website? No way! And the feds would fine that bank heavily.

Why would we not criticize them? They are playing with our money.

Enough already.

Wes.
Has your maintenance fees ever been off, missing or has the balance been less then owed? Wyndham knows how to keep track of their money and Its no secret their money is always accounted for. Ussually when a service is being paid for and falls short of expectations the customer has a right to complain or shop elsewhere for services. Its ludicrous that a customer should some how help fix or not complain about the systems failures time after time again.
 

Richelle

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Wyndham IT.

As a long suffering member who has watched new platform after new platform roll out to horrible results, I reserve the right to call it like I see it. And while this rollout appears to be better than most, it still has far too many bugs.

I do not subscribe to the school of thought that I dare not criticize IT if I don’t have behind the scenes knowledge about how the “sausage is made.” It reminds me of my grandfather’s favorite saying “you don’t have to be a farmer to know dirt when you see it.”

So I’m not a programmer but that doesn’t diminish me (or any other poster here) from being able to correctly criticize IT. This is not a game website. It’s a transactional platform that involves billions of dollars a year. And yet Wyndham IT continues to roll out buggy updates that don’t accurately track MY money! Would you be so patient if your bank took two weeks to fix your missing checking account because they didn’t beta test their new website? No way! And the feds would fine that bank heavily.

Why would we not criticize them? They are playing with our money.

Enough already.

Wes.
You’re missing my entire point. He’s saying it’s a simple fix. He is unqualified to determine whether the fix is easy or not. I am not saying they cannot be upset that their credits are messed up or that they haven’t been able to login for a month. I’m saying I’m tried of people being arrogant enough to think they know how to do Wyndham’s job better then they do. For all we know, they are more incompetent then they think Wyndham is. No system release is perfect. A system this complex is difficult, but not impossible, to manage. You’re going to get bugs when you’re working with multiple systems, with some being old. To think it should be perfect is unreasonable for any system. Go ahead and keep complaining. I just needed to call someone out in being arrogant because it’s been going on way to long. If you have something that is actually constructive add, I’ll share it with them.

I’ve not heard someone say they were forced to pay for a housekeeping credit when they should have had one. Have you?
 

Richelle

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Has your maintenance fees ever been off, missing or has the balance been less then owed? Wyndham knows how to keep track of their money and Its no secret their money is always accounted for. Ussually when a service is being paid for and falls short of expectations the customer has a right to complain or shop elsewhere for services. Its ludicrous that a customer should some how help fix or not complain about the systems failures time after time again.
Entirely different system. Not sure how often that gets updated. It may even be an off the shelf solution that didn’t require as much customization. It’s the customization that gets you.
 

comicbookman

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You’re missing my entire point. He’s saying it’s a simple fix. He is unqualified to determine whether the fix is easy or not. I am not saying they cannot be upset that their credits are messed up or that they haven’t been able to login for a month. I’m saying I’m tried of people being arrogant enough to think they know how to do Wyndham’s job better then they do. For all we know, they are more incompetent then they think Wyndham is. No system release is perfect. A system this complex is difficult, but not impossible, to manage. You’re going to get bugs when you’re working with multiple systems, with some being old. To think it should be perfect is unreasonable for any system. Go ahead and keep complaining. I just needed to call someone out in being arrogant because it’s been going on way to long. If you have something that is actually constructive add, I’ll share it with them.

I’ve not heard someone say they were forced to pay for a housekeeping credit when they should have had one. Have you?
And Wyndham's decision to go with just rolling out fixes and not doing any beta testing beyond the limited amount they did at the start of this sprint is entirely to blame for the problems that are occurring. While the site is significantly better than when first rolled out, it still has way to many problems for a site that involves Billions of dollars of customer's money. The bank analogy is spot on. I can tell you I would get fired if we (the IT department I have run for the last 20 years) rolled out something that was this buggy at the start and is being fixed a tiny bit at a time. It is all a simple fix. Spend an appropriate amount of money on the correct amount of qualified staff and don't release anything until it is THOROUGHLY tested. Anything else is just a subpar response. Wyndham has a long history of skimping on IT. I have no doubt that many, maybe even most, of the IT staff are competent and that the problems are a result of overwork. Your knee jerk response is that no one should criticize them because "we don't have inside knowledge". Our investments in Wyndham give us the right to criticize. On the Maintenance fee comparison, you are way off base. no one says the systems are the same, dgalati was correctly pointing out that somehow Wyndhan always devotes enough resources to that system to ensure they get their money.
 

paxsarah

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I've got two reservations booked in 2021, and accordingly my HK credits are now showing 3/5 remaining. It appears they didn't touch my 2020 HK credits, as I'm showing 3/3 credits though I've used two reservations in 2020 (moot anyway, since I'm out of points for 2020).
Mine, too. I had previously shown 3/5 remaining; now it's 4/6 remaining. I'm not sure where they came up with 6 - if they were basing it on my UY points plus deposited points from 2020, it should have been 8. However, if they simply decided to use actual mathematical rounding to round up instead of down (my regular UY points for 2021 would give me 5.55 HK credits), then the 6 would make sense. And although they didn't adjust my 2022 HK - it showed as 3/3 remaining and still does - it would be correct under mathematical rounding (because it calculates to 3.35 and would round down).

So it's possible that they changed how they're rounding, or it's possible that they simply threw a few HK credits at us for 2021 by a method that none of us are privy to.
Back to the original question, after posting the above earlier in the week now my HK credits for 2020 are showing 0/3 remaining, and 2021 is 3/6 remaining. There doesn't seem to be any basis for either of those allotments.

In 2020, we took one RCI vacation and two Wyndham vacations. Although it's moot because I have 0 points remaining, based on that I should have 1 HK remaining for 2020 (unless they're accounting for the RCI vacation, but that doesn't require HK in the new system).

In 2021, we have 2 Wyndham vacations booked. The original allotment of 3/5 remaining would be correct if Wyndham is rounding down. 4/6 would have worked if they decided to round up. 3/6 implies that I used 3 HK tokens/reservations, which I did not.
 

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I booked 2 vacation for 2020 but end up cancelling and deposit the points to 2022 back on 3/31/20. My account shows 0/2 housekeeping credit for 2020 which didn’t make sense since I didn’t take any Wyndham vacations this year
 

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You’re missing my entire point. He’s saying it’s a simple fix. He is unqualified to determine whether the fix is easy or not. I am not saying they cannot be upset that their credits are messed up or that they haven’t been able to login for a month. I’m saying I’m tried of people being arrogant enough to think they know how to do Wyndham’s job better then they do. For all we know, they are more incompetent then they think Wyndham is. No system release is perfect. A system this complex is difficult, but not impossible, to manage. You’re going to get bugs when you’re working with multiple systems, with some being old. To think it should be perfect is unreasonable for any system. Go ahead and keep complaining. I just needed to call someone out in being arrogant because it’s been going on way to long. If you have something that is actually constructive add, I’ll share it with them.
Apparently we are talking about two different things.

You're talking about a complicated application program and I'm talking about a database consisting of files with records of fields of data.
I only have to know the record structure to change a field. I don't even have to use the same programming language as the application. It can be done manually with an editor or automatically with a program. The programming is simple, often the problem is defining the rules.
 

Richelle

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Location
Location, Location.
Resorts Owned
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Bali Hai Villas
Wyndham Canterbury
Wyndham Clearwater
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation
And Wyndham's decision to go with just rolling out fixes and not doing any beta testing beyond the limited amount they did at the start of this sprint is entirely to blame for the problems that are occurring. While the site is significantly better than when first rolled out, it still has way to many problems for a site that involves Billions of dollars of customer's money. The bank analogy is spot on. I can tell you I would get fired if we (the IT department I have run for the last 20 years) rolled out something that was this buggy at the start and is being fixed a tiny bit at a time. It is all a simple fix. Spend an appropriate amount of money on the correct amount of qualified staff and don't release anything until it is THOROUGHLY tested. Anything else is just a subpar response. Wyndham has a long history of skimping on IT. I have no doubt that many, maybe even most, of the IT staff are competent and that the problems are a result of overwork. Your knee jerk response is that no one should criticize them because "we don't have inside knowledge". Our investments in Wyndham give us the right to criticize. On the Maintenance fee comparison, you are way off base. no one says the systems are the same, dgalati was correctly pointing out that somehow Wyndhan always devotes enough resources to that system to ensure they get their money.
How do you know they didn’t test their fixes or changes? How do you know how much they spent on that project? The criticism isn’t an issue so much as assuming you know what they do behind the curtain. It’s a bit arrogant to think you know more then you do.
 
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