• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Destination Club Forums -- Where Is It?

travelguy

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
938
Reaction score
0
Points
226
Maybe the deal was simpler - we'll give you some stock in return for suspending the site - because UE felt the presence of the site was hurting their membersip sales, so they bought silence.

More importantly, UE was able to permanently banish the vast archive of negative posts that would have killed sales for years to come.

Of the active Clubs, UE was certainly the most skewered but the executives of Equity Estates seemed to be the most reactionary and paranoid to posts about the many unanswered questions regarding their business model.
 

AKTHUE

newbie
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Messages
74
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Now the SEC filings can do the same thing :)

More importantly, UE was able to permanently banish the vast archive of negative posts that would have killed sales for years to come.

Anyone who reads the UE SEC filings should steer clear of UE. It's difficult to believe that financially sophisticated people who can afford UE joining fees and dues would not take the time to read the statements. Just the debt level should scare them away.
 

MULTIZ321

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
31,266
Reaction score
8,995
Points
1,048
Location
FT. LAUDERDALE, FL
Resorts Owned
BLUEWATER BY SPINNAKER HHI
ROYAL HOLIDAY CLUB RHC (POINTS)
Apologies if this has been revealed already, but based on the following it looks like DC4MS sold destinationclubforums.com to UE for 16,667 shares of UE stock:

1. Destinationclubforums.com was founded by William Scherer:

“I originally started Destination Club Forums as a small area on the Internet where I could post messages and discuss exotic luxury travel locations with other destination club members,” said William Scherer, the founder.

(http://newsblaze.com/story/2010042010352000550.pr/topstory.html)



2. In UE's S-1, a William Scherer was the proud owner, and hopeful seller, of 16,667 shares of UE stock:

Selling Stockholders:
William Scherer 16,667 * 16,667

(see page 69 of http://sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1402364/000114420410031992/v187261_s1.htm)

3. UE bought certain assets from an individual for 16,667 shares of UE stock:

ITEM 2 — UNREGISTERED SALES OF EQUITY SECURITIES AND USE OF PROCEEDS
On January 5, 2010, we issued 16,667 shares to an individual from whom we acquired certain assets, as part of the purchase price of those assets.

(see http://www.faqs.org/sec-filings/100513/Secure-America-Acquisition-CORP_10-Q/)

UEgly,

Thanks for the links.

The Ultimate Escapes S1 was an eye opener.


Richard
 

Kagehitokiri2

newbie
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
1,009
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Dr. Bill stated that the board was NOT down due to legal threats or actions. He also specifically mentioned HCC which had threatened and/or taken legal action against him.
he did not state that.

he may or may not have mentioned HCC/CK, but if he did, there would be missing context. ("specifically mentioned" and then nothing)

i dont recall hearing from bill that HCC/CK did anything. i certainly dont recall evidence of it on DC4MS. (like with another club that shall remain nameless.)

quotes from bill re DC4MS being down >
jan 14 - "issues" "advised" "until"
mar 15 - "legal issues"

thats all im comfortable posting, and will not comment further, except for additional corrections...
 
Last edited:

travelguy

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
938
Reaction score
0
Points
226
he did not state that.

he may or may not have mentioned HCC/CK, but if he did, there would be missing context. ("specifically mentioned" and then nothing)

i dont recall hearing from bill that HCC/CK did anything. i certainly dont recall evidence of it on DC4MS. (like with another club that shall remain nameless.)

quotes from bill >
jan 14 - "issues" "advised" "until"
mar 15 - "legal issues"

thats all im comfortable posting, and will not comment further, except for additional corrections...

Kage,

Not to get in a public argument with you on this, and it really doesn't matter anyway ... but to clarify ...

Dr. Bill did not post any of the reasons for the board shut-down that I can recall but did communicate off-forum. That's what I'm referring to in my post.

HCC/Kirschner WAS taking legal action against Dr. Bill and presumably the forum. I know this because I was involved as an intermediary between Kirschner and Dr. Bill to resolve a conflict before the board went silent and Kirschner contacted me later asking me to assist his lawyers and the FBI in actions against Dr. Bill. I declined and have no idea what happened after that. Dr. Bill seemed to be "aggressively" posting about Kirschner after he lost his HCC deposit.

Hope that explains my post. I don't believe I've left out any relevant context although there are other details that don't need to be posted to understand my statements.

Regardless, same result - DC4MS is gone, UE critics are somewhat silenced, Dr. Bill profited, HCC is still bankrupt, and we're back to TUG.
 

Kagehitokiri2

newbie
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
1,009
Reaction score
2
Points
0
i was not implying there was no HCC/CK legal action, just that i had not heard of it from bill. (that i recall. and i may be forgetting.)
 

UEgly

newbie
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Points
0
No more pretending...

Looks like destinationclubforums.com is no longer pretending to come back someday with exciting new features later in 2010 -- it is just a blank page now.

I'm shocked to learn that UE, as the owner of the asset, wasn't completely honest about its intentions with the site! :annoyed:
 

UnhappyInCT

newbie
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
14
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Looks like destinationclubforums.com is no longer pretending to come back someday with exciting new features later in 2010 -- it is just a blank page now.

I'm shocked to learn that UE, as the owner of the asset, wasn't completely honest about its intentions with the site! :annoyed:

Are you being sarcastic?

Many of us who have had experience with Jim Tousignant and UE were not shocked at this. In fact, check out my post from Feb 4 where I predicted that this was a likely reason for the shutdown of the website.
 

AKTHUE

newbie
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Messages
74
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Yes. Honesty is not their long suit from my experience...

UE is a master at communications that are technically accurate but actively misleading - by omitting important information or saying things in a way that invite you to infer what they hope you will.
 

UEgly

newbie
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Points
0
UE is a master at communications that are technically accurate but actively misleading - by omitting important information or saying things in a way that invite you to infer what they hope you will.

I think "technically accurate" is being generous. "Actively misleading" nails it. Of course, intent is very hard to prove/disprove, but let's take a look anyway:

"Since 2007, Destination Club Forums has been the #1 resource for independent information about the Destination Club industry and Destination Clubs such as:

Abercrombie & Kent Residence Club
Distinctive Holiday Homes
Equity Estates
Exclusive Resorts
Hideaways Club
M Private Residences
The Markers Destination Club
Oyster Circle
Quintess, LRW
The Ritz-Carlton Destination Club
Ultimate Escapes

Now we're working to bring you an exciting upgrade that will provide even more news, information, and insights into Destination Clubs — a fantastic way to experience the very best in luxury vacationing.

We greatly appreciate your patience while we prepare for these changes as we take our site to a whole new level in 2010!

Please check back in the near future while we work out all of the exciting details."

[emphasis added]


If only it ended with:

Sincerely,

Jim Tousignant
Ultimate Escapes, Inc.


Now that would have been entertaining.
 

3DH

Guest
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
43
Reaction score
2
Points
318
Location
Texas
All I can say is, WOW! :eek:

As a moderator there, I had absolutely NO IDEA (as with the others who are now active here...) that UE was in the plans for ownership. Oh well... guess we have all found a new "home"...
 

pwrshift

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
5,529
Reaction score
29
Points
483
Location
Toronto
Resorts Owned
Marriott Manor Club - 3 weeks platinum, 2 weeks at Marriott Beachplace Towers, and 1 week at Marriott Canyon Villas
For what it’s worth, I think DrB loved the DC concept and truly felt it was a fantastic vacation alternative, especially vs timeshares. I can only imagine the amount of his money it took, and personal time, to run it each day. Maybe he one day hoped to see ad support to meet those costs or even turn a small profit, but most DC’s viewed the site as a pain in the ass and had no interest supporting it.

I think we all found it a valuable source of information, but when the economy tanked we discovered some DC’s had bad management, very little financial transparency, and next to no membership deposit security. A lot of members lost money and they became very vocal on DC4MS.

No doubt, running the site was no longer fun as everyone was bitching so much. If several DC’s threatened lawsuits over the content I can’t blame DrB for pulling the plug as it was probably in the best interest of the moderators and some posters too as the DCs were trying to go after members that posted negative things. Almost like he fell on the sword rather than disclose private info about members during lawsuit depositions.

It costs very little to launch a lawsuit, but a ton to defend even if there’s a good chance of winning. I’m guessing he reached an out of court settlement that involved paying his legal fees and shutting down the site. I don’t think there’d be any buyers for the 16,667 shares, and surprised some of you might see something negative here. He started DC4MS in 2007 to share info as a free resource and created the largest online social gathering of DC members and should be thanked for that. I also found his DC home reviews, photographs, and stories quite entertaining.

Here’s some interesting reading on how some companies can SLAPP the little guy’s face with a nuisance lawsuit…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_public_participation

No doubt he made a number of rookie mistakes with the site (perhaps registering it in his own name rather than a LLC) that might have made his family personally liable for information posted there. Either way, he is probably under strict Non-Disclosure (NDA) as that is pretty standard with lawsuits. Too bad, as it was a terrific site and one that we all miss.

I'm glad all you rich guys found TUG again, and welcome back ... how about springing $15 and changing from 'guest' to 'member'. :)
 

travelguy

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
938
Reaction score
0
Points
226
I also agree with PWRSHift on his assessment of Dr. Bill and the DC4MS situation.

I'll add two additional thoughts:

1) What posters didn't see were some of the discussions on the private moderators only section of the board. When the implosion of DCs started to happen and members became very vocal and aggressive, several mods (including me) urged Dr. Bill to clamp down on the personal attacks and unverified accusations that were being made against the DCs and the executives of the DCs. Our feeling was that these would lead to legal problems even if some/most of the rants were justified. (personal note - There is a difference between what is just from a moral & ethical perspective and what is legally unjust). To his credit, Dr. Bill wanted the forum to continue to be somewhat uncensored and allowed the escalating aggressiveness to continue.

2) Dr. Bill was also a DC member who lost his DC investment. He posted under a different board name to voice his personal opinions. He was totally transparent about this and disclosed this to the mods from day one. IMHO - In the end days of DC4MS, some of the postings of "DC4MS" (the administrator) became the angry personal opinions of Dr. Bill, the person who was ripped off by a DC. I'm not saying the any of those posts were unjustified, only that they should not have been posted as the opinions of the admin.

To add context to this account - remember that the legal liabilities of public postings and the disclosures needed have changed dramatically from 2007 until today.
 

RLG

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
527
Reaction score
3
Points
378
Location
Hawaii
Resorts Owned
Marriot Abound Chairman (SMV; SDO; SBP; Lakeside Terrace, Willow Ridge). HGVC, Worldmark. RCI points
Almost like he fell on the sword rather than disclose private info about members during lawsuit depositions.

One of the things I've noticed about people who are drinking the DC coolaid is that it makes them say "thank you" when they are getting screwed.

If I understand what happened correctly, he SOLD our information to one of the DC's. Your contact info, username, password, posts and any PM's are all now in the hands of JT. So much for falling on his sword.

I’m guessing he reached an out of court settlement that involved paying his legal fees and shutting down the site. I don’t think there’d be any buyers for the 16,667 shares, and surprised some of you might see something negative here.

I hope he rides the shares all the way down to zero. Maybe he can exchange them for 30 pieces of silver which would be a more appropriate compensation.

No wonder he didn't tell anyone what he did.
 

Kagehitokiri2

newbie
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
1,009
Reaction score
2
Points
0
let me rephrase - what i got from pwrshift's post was the focus on lawsuits, and settlements, and NDAs.
 

pwrshift

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
5,529
Reaction score
29
Points
483
Location
Toronto
Resorts Owned
Marriott Manor Club - 3 weeks platinum, 2 weeks at Marriott Beachplace Towers, and 1 week at Marriott Canyon Villas
There's a lot of bitterness out there over the broken DC dreams. I'm not happy that I lost on HCC, but that wasn't DrB's fault. Even though it was money I could afford to lose I didn't like doing so, but would never blame anyone else for my stupidity. Besides, I lost a lot more on the stock market that crashed right after that. If you lost money on a DC of the stock market, take a look in the mirror to see who is responsible.

Once burned....! You won't find me in line to buy into another DC as a result of what happened, and HCC, Lusso, etc. did great harm to the DC industry. DC4MS became the refuge of relief when everyone woke up from the dream.

It is my understanding that a BBS like TUG and DC4MS cannot read PM's or get member email addresses not posted in public. I've never been spammed because of TUG or DC4MS.

My reading on it is that if he 'sold' anything it was the closure of the site, as anything else was worthless.

One of the things I've noticed about people who are drinking the DC coolaid is that it makes them say "thank you" when they are getting screwed.

If I understand what happened correctly, he SOLD our information to one of the DC's. Your contact info, username, password, posts and any PM's are all now in the hands of JT. So much for falling on his sword.

I hope he rides the shares all the way down to zero. Maybe he can exchange them for 30 pieces of silver which would be a more appropriate compensation.

No wonder he didn't tell anyone what he did.
 

Kagehitokiri2

newbie
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
1,009
Reaction score
2
Points
0
It is my understanding that a BBS like TUG and DC4MS cannot ... get member email addresses

not correct.

just a matter of who [admin] has access to them.

cant imagine anything happened beyond simply taking the site down.
 

travelguy

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
938
Reaction score
0
Points
226
not correct.

just a matter of who [admin] has access to them.

cant imagine anything happened beyond simply taking the site down.

Agreed, e-mails were available to admin and mods. Also note that HCC itself made all members e-mails available in the public domain by an IT screw-up.

I agree with our friend from the great white north that I've never been spammed from anything to do with DC4MS. I HAVE been spammed by the HCC wannabe DCs that routinely sent e-mails to all HCC members after the failure of HCC. That spamming has died down since none of them ever got off the ground.
 

travelguy

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
938
Reaction score
0
Points
226
Even though it was money I could afford to lose I didn't like doing so, but would never blame anyone else for my stupidity. Besides, I lost a lot more on the stock market that crashed right after that.

I'll also add that I lost much more on the "value" of my timeshares than I did on the DC over that same time period (based upon current ts resale values). At least I'm not paying annual dues on HCC, unlike some of my timeshares that have no value. In fact, I might jump at the chance to trade-in my worthless timeshares for a worthless DC. ;)


At least I made back the money I lost on the stock market! No chance of making back the TS or DC losses.
 

pwrshift

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
5,529
Reaction score
29
Points
483
Location
Toronto
Resorts Owned
Marriott Manor Club - 3 weeks platinum, 2 weeks at Marriott Beachplace Towers, and 1 week at Marriott Canyon Villas
At least I made back the money I lost on the stock market! No chance of making back the TS or DC losses.

Ah...but no doubt you're a smarter investor now on everything. :)
 
Top