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DC Points Trade Observation

Art

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As noted in my reply to another post, we are currently at Crystal Shores. This happens to be a 5 day stay with check in this past Sunday.

What amazed me is that there were 28 check ins into the current 67 units that day. However, when I talked with the sales person yesterday, she told me that a number of points users do the 5 day Sun -Thurs stay here, go up the road to do Sat and Sun on Reward points at the Marriott Hotel, and come back here for another 5 day stay.

I don't think the villas stayed empty over the weekend because we were not able to get to our unit until 3:45 PM.

I find it rather neat that people are figuring out how to work the DC system to meet their needs.

Art
 

Mamianka

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As noted in my reply to another post, we are currently at Crystal Shores. This happens to be a 5 day stay with check in this past Sunday.

What amazed me is that there were 28 check ins into the current 67 units that day. However, when I talked with the sales person yesterday, she told me that a number of points users do the 5 day Sun -Thurs stay here, go up the road to do Sat and Sun on Reward points at the Marriott Hotel, and come back here for another 5 day stay.

I don't think the villas stayed empty over the weekend because we were not able to get to our unit until 3:45 PM.

I find it rather neat that people are figuring out how to work the DC system to meet their needs.

Art


Forgive me if you said this already in your other post - but are you using DC points (that you bought, which cover the whole time there) or did you get these 5 days on Legacy points? We have Legacy points only, REFUSE to buy any more from the New Bucket, and were wondering if our plans to stay for 5 days, as you are doing, is a reasonable expectation with Legacy points.

Thanks. Mamianka
 

dougp26364

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In the searches I've been doing, I seem to be seeing more broken weeks than full weeks available for reserving. For instance, I was searching around for a full summer week in Breckenridge at Mountain Valley Lodge for June, which is typically a slower month, and nothing was available. When I started trimming the number of nights down, I started seeing availabilty at the 4 or 5 night mark.

I searched the 7 night reservations even though I really didn't need a full week. I only needed 3 nights, Thurs-Sunday, to alter an exchange I have through I.I. due to some of life's complications. We weren't going to be able to stay the full week we had as an exchange (Sun/Sun) and we were going to have to come home early. However we could stay Thurs/Thurs so, I used a few extra points we had an booked those three nights. Now we'll be able to spend a full week in Breckenridge, but it will be between two resorts and we'll still be giving up 3 night from our original weeks exchange made through I.I.

I am wondering how this is going to effect inventory for all of us how prefer traditional week long stays. I wonder how much breakage there's going to be in Marriott's system and how this system is going to handle that breakage.
 

slum808

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This pattern seems to mirror booking patterns we see with DVC. A couple years ago it was very common to see people book 5 weekday nights then rent a value or moderate room for the weekend. Disney tried to adjust demand by making weekend cheaper and weekdays more expensive. This really upset some owners who only purchased enough points for that sun-thursday stay. It will be interesting to see what Marriott decides to do if this continues.
 

Bill4728

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We just made reservations for my DS for exactly what you guy suggested. Used hotel points for a stay at Universal City (SoCal) and then 5 night at NCV.

He was thrilled.
 

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This is exactly why I got out of DVC. As much as I loved my points, Disney messed with the points and suddenly I couldn't even book five nights in a row. From experience, the ability to stretch points by booking smaller units or staying weekdays instead of weekends was GREAT for the first few years. Then, I started to really envy 2 bedrooms or even one bedrooms instead of studios but more so, I wanted to stay 7 days, not just five. Still, you make the best of it by banking and renting points (I guess you could borrow, too), but all of that takes a toll and I got sick of the high costs (nearly 1k a year three years ago for 170 DVC points) and paying just as much in dues as full week owners and not even getting five days of vacations.

I keep reading from DC members who are in love with points and I wonder how long it will take for them to realize they are getting less than they ever had in weeks. I get (and am sometimes jealous) being able to book summer weeks in the carolinas or crystal shores or hawaii and ski weeks no problem, verses long waits and many times not getting what you want in weeks. But, most of these great exchanges are for five day stays or smaller units. Must be fun right now becuase it is so new and DC members have access to the best inventory Marriott has to offer, but at what point do you miss full weeks or 2 bedrooms, etc... For me it was like 7 years.



This pattern seems to mirror booking patterns we see with DVC. A couple years ago it was very common to see people book 5 weekday nights then rent a value or moderate room for the weekend. Disney tried to adjust demand by making weekend cheaper and weekdays more expensive. This really upset some owners who only purchased enough points for that sun-thursday stay. It will be interesting to see what Marriott decides to do if this continues.
 

thinze3

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Interesting. People (we) need to bookmark this page so we can actually come back to it in a couple of years. Is this the first kink in the DC armor?
 

dioxide45

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I personally think the DC point differential for Friday and Saturday night stays is far too high. I think Marriott will likely go the way of DVC at some point in the future. People who are flexible will book Sun-Fri stays and book a weekend at a hotel, even on cash. Families will just opt for a five night stay instead of seven to get around the skim.
 

Art

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Forgive me if you said this already in your other post - but are you using DC points (that you bought, which cover the whole time there) or did you get these 5 days on Legacy points? We have Legacy points only, REFUSE to buy any more from the New Bucket, and were wondering if our plans to stay for 5 days, as you are doing, is a reasonable expectation with Legacy points.

Thanks. Mamianka

The only DC points we have are the legacy points we get from our Ocean Pointe week that we enrolled in the system.

Since we only reserved 5 days at Crystal Shore, we had to do that 10 months out, and I did that just about to the day. The days were available the day I made the request, no waiting list, no fuss. From my perspective, this was about as easy a trade to arrange as any I had ever done.

BTW, I did see a fair number of people checking out on Monday morning, and a couple groups this morning.

Art
 
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GregT

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This pattern seems to mirror booking patterns we see with DVC. A couple years ago it was very common to see people book 5 weekday nights then rent a value or moderate room for the weekend. Disney tried to adjust demand by making weekend cheaper and weekdays more expensive. This really upset some owners who only purchased enough points for that sun-thursday stay. It will be interesting to see what Marriott decides to do if this continues.

This is exactly why I got out of DVC. As much as I loved my points, Disney messed with the points and suddenly I couldn't even book five nights in a row. From experience, the ability to stretch points by booking smaller units or staying weekdays instead of weekends was GREAT for the first few years. Then, I started to really envy 2 bedrooms or even one bedrooms instead of studios but more so, I wanted to stay 7 days, not just five. Still, you make the best of it by banking and renting points (I guess you could borrow, too), but all of that takes a toll and I got sick of the high costs (nearly 1k a year three years ago for 170 DVC points) and paying just as much in dues as full week owners and not even getting five days of vacations.

I keep reading from DC members who are in love with points and I wonder how long it will take for them to realize they are getting less than they ever had in weeks. I get (and am sometimes jealous) being able to book summer weeks in the carolinas or crystal shores or hawaii and ski weeks no problem, verses long waits and many times not getting what you want in weeks. But, most of these great exchanges are for five day stays or smaller units. Must be fun right now becuase it is so new and DC members have access to the best inventory Marriott has to offer, but at what point do you miss full weeks or 2 bedrooms, etc... For me it was like 7 years.

Interesting. People (we) need to bookmark this page so we can actually come back to it in a couple of years. Is this the first kink in the DC armor?

I agree with Terry here -- and thank Jim and Steve for their contributions as long time DVC owners. Disney Vacation Club was a model for Marriott system and I see many similarities.

DClub at the moment is very erratic in terms of being able to find solid chunks of days together. Some properties that are deep in the Trust (Ko Olina, Newport Coast, Timber Lodge) it appears much much easier to get a large blocks of days.

Other properties (MountainSide, Grande Ocean) that depend on Legacy Week redemptions are much more spotty -- which makes sense because if a single week is redeemed and then some Premier Plus books a single day or two, the week is broken.

There is much for us to learn in the coming years -- but DClub will not be an automatic substitute for a week long vacation somewhere.

Premier Plus and Premier have been handed the keys to the Kingdom, as long as we plan 13 months ahead. This isn't dissimilar to other systems where as long as you plan 8/9/10 months ahead you can get what you want, as long as you plan carefully. But where weeks are scarce (MountainSide), it really is interesting that someone can book a single day and break the availability within the system.

Conversely (and nearer to my heart), the DClub is loaded with 3BR MOC inventory -- just not in summer. Pick any Fall week and there is solid, unbroken inventory available. Clearly, MOC owners of fixed weeks in the Fall recognize the windfall of points and are redeeming in droves.

Interesting stuff -- lots to learn in the coming years about this system -- which is very different from my other systems.

Best,

Greg
 

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good morning

Greg...

Those 3 bedroom MOC's go from 10K-12K points... Would cost me about 2.5 weeks of Legacy Points to snag one of those!!! Only about 5 % of all owners (never mind those that convert to DC ) have the "juice" to make that Ressie!!!! A smidge "rich" for my blood".

Think I am going to have to wait for your invite for that one!!!!;) ;) ;)
 

m61376

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good morning

Greg...

Those 3 bedroom MOC's go from 10K-12K points... Would cost me about 2.5 weeks of Legacy Points to snag one of those!!! Only about 5 % of all owners (never mind those that convert to DC ) have the "juice" to make that Ressie!!!! A smidge "rich" for my blood".

Think I am going to have to wait for your invite for that one!!!!;) ;) ;)

wow- I didn't realize a single week anywhere cost 10-12K points. How many points were 3BR Maui owners allocated? I wonder what the skim was on those, although clearly allocated enough to book anywhere else in a similar size.
 

thinze3

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wow- I didn't realize a single week anywhere cost 10-12K points. How many points were 3BR Maui owners allocated? I wonder what the skim was on those, although clearly allocated enough to book anywhere else in a similar size.

It takes 11,800 points to reserve 7 nights in a Lahaina 3BR during mid August!

Puck is correct. That's more than two years worth of my Waiohai. :eek:
 

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good morning...

Clearly, MOC is the big "cheese" in the system, Best bet to get in here might be the old fashioned II uptrade. Increasing t he odds by depositing early, giiving wide range of check ins etc. Doubt any 3 bedrooms are to be snagged this way, but I have snagged 2 bedrooms with my GV week...

The other way is to be very nice to GregT.....:rofl: :hysterical: ;)
 

Mamianka

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The only DC points we have are the legacy points we get from our Ocean Pointe week that we enrolled in the system.

Since we only reserved 5 days at Crystal Shore, we had to do that 10 months out, and I did that just about to the day. The days were available the day I made the request, no waiting list, no fuss. From my perspective, this was about as easy a trade to arrange as any I had ever done.

BTW, I did see a fair number of people checking out on Monday morning, and a couple groups this morning.

Art

GREAT! That means that yes, we CAN get into this snooty/exclusive/NEW point buyers-only place, with our shabby, old, not-worth-anything -according-to-sales-staff LEGACY points! Gotta tell the Boss! we still might onoy do 5 days - not add any n hotel days - because we get antsy on *relaxing* vacations, without all the cultural stim that we thrive on. We are just no good relaxers, I guess . . .
 

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I personally think the DC point differential for Friday and Saturday night stays is far too high. I think Marriott will likely go the way of DVC at some point in the future. People who are flexible will book Sun-Fri stays and book a weekend at a hotel, even on cash. Families will just opt for a five night stay instead of seven to get around the skim.


What is the differential like in HGVC between weekday and weekend? Is it similar or less?
 

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I agree the weekend rates are a little high, but DVC does this as well and coonceptually it makes sense.

For me, it is still far cheaper in maintenance fees than staying at the hotel down the road in 3 rooms.... At least 3500 cheaper.

For us, moving to what would have to be be multiple hotel rooms for a weekend ( and then back!) is way too much trouble and inconvenience.
 

GregT

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What is the differential like in HGVC between weekday and weekend? Is it similar or less?

In HGVC, the differential is still significant, but less pronounced (as compared to DClub) between weekend and week day. In HGVC, Fri/Sat/Sunday are 2X the Mon/Tues/Wed/Thurs rate.

A 2BR week costs 7,000 points, so it is 1,400/1,400/1,400 then 700/700/700/700.

The 7,000 points requirement is pretty uniform across the system so a 2BR in Orlando and a 2BR in Hawaii both cost 7,000 (although there are some more expensive premium units in Hawaii). HGVC's sales pitch is to buy in Orlando and vacation in Hawaii -- which puts a lot of demand on the more scarce Hawaii properties.

Additionally, there is purity in the HGVC points structure -- a 1BR costs 4,800 Points and a Studio costs 2,200 Points (equalling the 7,000 total for the 2BR).

And there is no skim -- you don't get 7,000 points if you visit your home property, but only 6,100 if you're going to visit another property.

Best,

Greg
 
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GregT

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good morning...

Clearly, MOC is the big "cheese" in the system, Best bet to get in here might be the old fashioned II uptrade. Increasing t he odds by depositing early, giiving wide range of check ins etc. Doubt any 3 bedrooms are to be snagged this way, but I have snagged 2 bedrooms with my GV week...

The other way is to be very nice to GregT.....:rofl: :hysterical: ;)

Oh, I love all of my TUGging friends, we need to do a TUG trip and take over a couple floors in Lahaina Villas.

We would need the banner.

Best,

Greg
 

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good morning...

I am ALL IN for that trip.. Will use my handy dandy legacy points for that gig....

Looking :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: forward to it!!!!
 

Quilter

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Premier Plus and Premier have been handed the keys to the Kingdom, as long as we plan 13 months ahead. This isn't dissimilar to other systems where as long as you plan 8/9/10 months ahead you can get what you want, as long as you plan carefully. But where weeks are scarce (MountainSide), it really is interesting that someone can book a single day and break the availability within the system.

Best,

Greg

Can you give me a brief explanation of the benefits you're referring to with this statement.

This week I used the DC for the first time. Even though I've tried to stay informed on the details and manipulations it wasn't until I put it into practice that these really sunk in.

Thanks,
Suzzanne
 

GregT

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Can you give me a brief explanation of the benefits you're referring to with this statement.

This week I used the DC for the first time. Even though I've tried to stay informed on the details and manipulations it wasn't until I put it into practice that these really sunk in.

Thanks,
Suzzanne

Suzzanne,

In my opinion, the primary purpose of any timeshare system is to secure the desired reservation (whether a week you own, a week you're exchanging, or a points system). And it is very helpful to be able to book your reservation early.

Marriott has structured their new system so that Premier and Premier Plus can book at 13 months out -- Premier Plus can book as little as one day, a Premier can book 7 days. This early access is important for any reservation, but doubly so if the days sought are very scarce, like at Mountainside. Marriott has to work hard to get that Mountainside week to offer to its points owners -- either by getting someone to redeem their Mountainside week, or by going and snatching a deposit from Interval.

And after all that work, a Premier Plus can book (as an example) just the Sunday 13 months out -- a one day reservation -- and impact the value/desirability of the adjacent one day and five day fragments that are still available. And fragments aren't necessarily what everyone is looking for. They certainly will get booked, but how many other owners are looking for those exact time slots? Until Month 10, only other Premier Plus' can book that fragment.

It's just interesting to me because it is so different from what I am accustomed to. We may find a pattern exists where certain owners grab the Fri/Sat because they only want a weekend and other owners grab the Sun-Thurs because they want the cheaper point scale.

But those partial week reservations will be made by Premier Plus because other owners have to wait until 10 months out to book partial weeks. And partial weeks may be all that is available because the other guys can break weeks 10-13 months out.

That makes Premier and Premier Plus very useful, in my opinion, for the prime weeks.

Sorry for the lengthy answer, I hope that makes sense.

All the best,

Greg


Edited to add: I initially thought Premier could book single days at 12 months but this was erroneous. I've removed that reference above. Thx!
 
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Greg,

You explanation was great, and now I'm wondering if Marriott Point users will need to walk their reservations like many DVC owners do. Say you want that Sun-Thursday at Mountain side. It could be gone, even if you call at the opening of your 13 month window. Owners booking the Friday, Saturday ahead of you will have a two day start on booking. There has been a lot of grumbling in the DVC forums from those who cant get a ressie starting on a Monday. They believe its from people walking their reservation, but more than likely its just that everyone is starting their trip on Friday and Saturday. I would imagine that there are relativly few who are savy enough to figure out how to walk a reservation on their own, tuggers are the exception not the norm.
 

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Greg,

You explanation was great, and now I'm wondering if Marriott Point users will need to walk their reservations like many DVC owners do. Say you want that Sun-Thursday at Mountain side. It could be gone, even if you call at the opening of your 13 month window. Owners booking the Friday, Saturday ahead of you will have a two day start on booking. There has been a lot of grumbling in the DVC forums from those who cant get a ressie starting on a Monday. They believe its from people walking their reservation, but more than likely its just that everyone is starting their trip on Friday and Saturday. I would imagine that there are relativly few who are savy enough to figure out how to walk a reservation on their own, tuggers are the exception not the norm.

Well the DVC traditional trip is Sun-Thursday to avoid the high points of Fri/Sat. I haven't really study all the point charts from the reallocations over the last couple of years, but a few of us who use Fri/Sat nights came out ahead. I think my Thurs-Monday MLK trip got 20 pts shaved off of it if I stayed at BCV or BWV. My Thanksgiving week at SSR stayed the same, and spring break at VB went up 3 point.

Do you remember when we the 11/7 month windows were by check out days? OMG the DIS boards were grumbling on that one, like no one ever did day by day booking, the cousin of walking a reservation. Geez even Member Services used to tell you to book day by day for certain resorts/villa sizes.
 

slum808

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Conversely (and nearer to my heart), the DClub is loaded with 3BR MOC inventory -- just not in summer. Pick any Fall week and there is solid, unbroken inventory available. Clearly, MOC owners of fixed weeks in the Fall recognize the windfall of points and are redeeming in droves.
Greg

So I know the skim is suposed to pay for breakage and other fees, but it seems like the amount of skim could also be depended on how baddly Marriott wants your week. If these weeks stay as unbooked inventory what does Marriott do with them? Do they eventually get rented for cash? Do you think Marriott would eventually lower the amount of points you would receive for trading in your week?
 
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