• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 31st anniversary: Happy 31st Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $23,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $23 Million dollars
  • Wish you could meet up with other TUG members? Well look no further as this annual event has been going on for years in Orlando! How to Attend the TUG January Get-Together!
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Cruise ship at sea with 4 dead onboard? (merged)

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,114
Reaction score
6,472
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
I found this article in the Washington Post:

Four passengers have died, two test positive for covid-19 on cruise ship stranded off the coast of Panama
By Hannah Sampson
March 27 at 1:35 PM

Four passengers have died on a cruise ship that has been unable to find a port to disembark its passengers, operator Holland America Line saidFriday. On Friday afternoon, it was off the coast of Panama with a plan to head to Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

People aboard the Zaandam cruise ship started reporting flu-like symptoms over the weekend. Two people on the ship have tested positive so far for covid-19, the disease caused by the novel coronavirus. According to the company, 138 people on the ship were sick as of early Friday — 53 guests and 85 crew.....

 

b2bailey

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2007
Messages
3,891
Reaction score
2,940
Location
Santa Cruz CA
A cruise ship with 1,800 people is unable to dock at any local ports. Now 138 are sick, 4 are dead, and coronavirus cases are being confirmed on the stranded ship still at sea.
insider@insider.com (Áine Cain)
Business InsiderMarch 27, 2020, 9:55 AM PDT
holland american zaandam

holland american zaandam
Andy Clark/Reuters
  • Four passengers have died aboard Holland America Line's MS Zaandam ship, according to leaked audio from a sister ship sent to rescue stranded passengers.
  • "Holland America Line can confirm that four older guests have passed away on Zaandam," a Holland America representative told Business Insider in a statement. Medical staffers and the representative have confirmed at least two cases of COVID-19 on board.
  • A crew member aboard the MS Rotterdam, which was dispatched to supply the Zaandam with COVID-19 testing kits and other medical supplies, sent Business Insider a memo breaking down a proposed rescue mission in which healthy Zaandam passengers would be transferred to the Rotterdam and sail toward San Diego.
  • Passengers on the Zaandam have said there are at least 144 sick passengers and crew members on board.
  • Are you a cruise-ship passenger or employee with a story to share? Email acain@businessinsider.com.
  • Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.

Four passengers have died aboard Holland America Line's stranded MS Zaandam cruise ship, according to a recording leaked to Business Insider from a sister ship sent to rescue healthy passengers.
"I am also sad to share that four older Zaandam guests have passed away," the captain of the MS Rotterdam said in the recording of a shipwide announcement provided to Business Insider. "Three between yesterday and last night, and one a few days ago. Our thoughts and prayers are with their families, and the Zaandam team is doing everything they can to support them during this difficult time."
A Holland America crew member sent Business Insider a recording of the Rotterdam's captain announcing the deaths, as well as news from medical staffers confirming at least two cases of COVID-19 aboard the Zaandam.
The Rotterdam rendezvoused with the Zaandam on Thursday night off the coast of Ecuador to deliver medical supplies, including COVID-19 tests. The Rotterdam has no guests on board, but crew members on the ship have said it is staffed with 611 people.
According to a memo leaked by a Rotterdam crew member, the ship is now also tasked with rescuing healthy Zaandam guests.
- ADVERTISEMENT -

The crew member sent Business Insider pictures of a printed memo dated Wednesday and titled "Rotterdam Humanitarian Mission FAQ." The rescue-response memo began with the question "Why do we need to do this?"
"This is a humanitarian action to help a sister ship which has an outbreak of respiratory illness mainly affecting your team mates, particularly food preparation and service staff," the memo said. "There is no other place for us to take the guests and no other means to provide assistance to the Zaandam and our fellow team members on board."
In a statement to Business Insider, a Holland America representative confirmed the course of action outlined in the memo.
"Today we announced a plan to transfer groups of healthy Zaandam guests to Rotterdam, with strict protocols for this process developed in conjunction with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention," the representative said. "Only those who have not been ill will be moved, and health screenings will be conducted before transferring. Priority for the first guests to transfer will be given to those on Zaandam with inside staterooms and who are over 70."
The leaked memo said that ports and airports in South America and Central America had been closed off to the Zaandam and that "colleagues, fleet family members, and guests" on board "are in dire need."
There were originally 1,243 guests and 586 crew members on the Zaandam. The ship's passengers have been confined to their staterooms since Sunday, with crew members delivering meals and collecting trash from cabins.
A view of the MS Rotterdam from a passenger on board the MS Zaandam.

A view of the MS Rotterdam from a passenger on board the MS Zaandam.
Courtesy of a Zaandam Passenger
The memo described a plan to sail the Rotterdam northwest, up to the United States, predicting that it could reach San Diego in about a week depending on its "fuel and provisions supply." From there, the Rotterdam would "disembark all guests and fly them home."
Only "well guests" — anyone "showing no signs of illness, including fever" — would be eligible for the ship transfer. Sick guests and their "close contacts" would remain behind on the Zaandam. The document did not specify a plan for healthy Zaandam crew members.
The memo said that members of the Zaandam's crew "are showing influenza-like symptoms, such as fever and cough." Business Insider reported on Thursday that, based on conversations with Zaandam passengers, at least 86 crew members and 58 guests had fallen ill.
The Rotterdam would give its sister ship medical staff, supplies, equipment, and "a number of COVID-19 test kits for use in identifying whether or not the illness is on board," the memo said.
Passengers would be transferred to the Rotterdam through a "secure corridor" that would "take them directly to their staterooms," the memo said. Under that plan, no crew members from the Rotterdam would "come into close contact with anybody transferred and en route to their stateroom." All rescued guests would be required to "stay in isolation in their staterooms" for the duration of the journey, and meals would be provided through contactless delivery.
The memo said that the Rotterdam crew would have enough surgical masks and gloves for the estimated seven-to-10-day voyage up to the United States. It said that personal protective equipment would be "provided to wear based on their individual risk," singling out at-risk teams like medical, hotel, technical, and deck staffers.
'We are mariners'
Rotterdam crew members have told Business Insider that despite the memo's attempts to quell their fears, they are frightened of becoming sick. They said they felt that Holland America left them without much of a choice.
"Our crew do not agree, and they did not give us any choice about it," one crew member said. "We will have to serve guests possibly infected by COVID-19 without any equipment or instruction."
The crew member said Holland America "did not care for the health of our crew" by tasking the Rotterdam with the mission.
The memo also repeatedly addressed crew members' concerns about safety.
"The chances that anyone will become ill from well guests is very low," it said. "There is a higher chance of becoming ill traveling through an airport to get home than there is on the ship." It also said that once at the port in the United States, the "well guests" would be "allowed to freely disembark go to a hotel or fly home with no restrictions."
"These guests are healthier than most people who travel, sail, and fly every day," the memo said, adding that crew members had a greater likelihood of being exposed to illness on their international flights home.
The document also provided Rotterdam crew members a statement to give to family members. It described the transfer as "part of a humanitarian crisis mission in which the Rotterdam team is coming to the rescue of the Zaandam guests and crew."
Rotterdam crew members uncomfortable with the mission ought to "let us know how you feel and what your concerns honestly are," the memo said.
"We should mention that nobody will be asked to do something that they don't want to do," the memo said. "But we would like you to think about your fellow team members on board Zaandam and the guests who are elderly and need your help, and what one would hope they would do for the Rotterdam team if you ended up in the same situation — as that could have been easily been the case."
It added: "Again, nobody will be pushed to do something that doesn't feel right to them."
The memo offered an explanation for why Rotterdam crew members were not kept more aware of the nature of their mission, saying the situation on the Zaandam "escalated very rapidly."
"We are mariners, and we consider this our duty and our obligation, and so in the tradition, we are proceeding with helping our sister ship the Zaandam," the captain of the Rotterdam said in the leaked audio. "Our guests and our fellow crew members on board need us. There are no easy choices here. In order to protect the Zaandam guests and crew members, we need to move guests to the Rotterdam."
Read Holland America's full statement:
Zaandam is currently off the coast of Panama and rendezvoused with sister ship Rotterdam at 7:30 p.m. local time yesterday, March 26. We received approval from Panamanian authorities to conduct ship-to-ship operations at anchor between the two vessels. Medical supplies and additional medical staff were transferred to Zaandam.
Today we announced a plan to transfer groups of healthy Zaandam guests to Rotterdam, with strict protocols for this process developed in conjunction with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Only those who have not been ill will be moved, and health screenings will be conducted before transferring. Priority for the first guests to transfer will be given to those on Zaandam with inside staterooms and who are over 70. Once aboard Rotterdam, all guests will continue to remain in their staterooms until disembarkation. Any guests who are currently ill, or in isolation as a close contact, and all crew will remain on Zaandam.
While the onward plan for both ships is still being finalized, we continue to work with the Panamanian authorities on approval to transit the Panama Canal for sailing to Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
Yesterday a number of patients with respiratory symptoms were tested for COVID-19 and two individuals tested positive. Out of an abundance of caution, on March 22 when Zaandam first saw a number of guests reporting to the medical center with influenza-like illness symptoms, we took immediate protective measures, including asking all guests to self-isolate in their staterooms and implementing all other appropriate precautions that have been developed in coordination with the CDC. All guests and crew received face masks yesterday and were provided with instructions on when and how to wear them.
Currently, 53 guests (4%) and 85 crew (14%) have reported to Zaandam's medical center with influenza-like illness symptoms. There are 1,243 guests and 586 crew on board. On Zaandam there are four doctors and four nurses. On Rotterdam there are two doctors and four nurses.
Holland America Line can confirm that four older guests have passed away on Zaandam. Our thoughts and prayers are with their families and we are doing everything we can to support them during this difficult time.
Complimentary telephone counseling services from our care partner, Empathia, have been made available to guests and crew if they would like extra support during this time. For those with family members on board, they can call the following numbers for information: 877-425-2231 or 206-626-7398.
Zaandam was sailing a South America cruise that departed Buenos Aires, Argentina, on March 7 and was originally scheduled to end at San Antonio, Chile, on March 21. Due to global health concerns, Holland America Line made the decision to suspend its global cruise operations for 30 days and end its current cruises in progress as quickly as possible so guests could return home. No one has been off the ship since March 14 in Punta Arenas, Chile
 

Sandy VDH

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,195
Reaction score
4,584
Location
Houston, TX
Resorts Owned
Wynd VIP Plat GF, Legacy HGVC Elite, WM, HICV, +
there is currently no confirmation that the passengers died of COVID-19. Holland America has the oldest demographic amoungst the major cruise lines. Most fatalities on board are heart attacks. I would wait for someone to confirm if they were COVID deaths before assuming they all are.
 

1Kflyerguy

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
3,906
Reaction score
1,914
Location
San Jose, Ca
Resorts Owned
HGVC Kings Land, Elara, and Marriott Destination Club Points
Wow, definitely not a good time to be on a cruise ship
 

Sandy VDH

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,195
Reaction score
4,584
Location
Houston, TX
Resorts Owned
Wynd VIP Plat GF, Legacy HGVC Elite, WM, HICV, +
Again.... there are 4 fatalities. No one has said that there are 4 COVID related fatalities.
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,114
Reaction score
6,472
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
Again.... there are 4 fatalities. No one has said that there are 4 COVID related fatalities.

Regardless of whether they died from covid-19, it is pretty distressing to hear the cruise ship is carrying four dead people with nowhere to disembark. I would hate to be one of the passengers on this ship!
 

MULTIZ321

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
32,811
Reaction score
9,421
Location
FT. LAUDERDALE, FL
Resorts Owned
BLUEWATER BY SPINNAKER HHI
ROYAL HOLIDAY CLUB RHC (POINTS)

clifffaith

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
6,514
Reaction score
8,890
Location
San Juan Capistrano, CA
Resorts Owned
Formerly: Marriott, ILX, Westin, Diamond, Worldmark. Timeshare free as of 12/24.
Why the heck is there a Holland America ship still at sea? I am floored that there is a cruise ship still under sail. Apparently they have four dead, two who have tested positive for the virus, and dozens of people who are sick. How was that allowed to happen?
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,114
Reaction score
6,472
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
This is the 3rd thread on this topic. Maybe the administrator can consolidate them.
 

Passepartout

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
29,168
Reaction score
18,458
Location
Twin Falls, Eye-Duh-Hoe
It had been going back and forth between Valparaiso Chile and Buenos Aires Argentina. They god some rough seas (and illness aboard) coming around the tip of South America. They fueled in Valparaiso and headed to Florida. They are delayed at the Panama Canal, and had to be re-supplied by a sister ship. they hope to be able to dock and have passengers disembark at Fort Lauderdale. The passengers are restricted to cabins. Holland America is a division of Carnival Cruise Line.

Not a good time to be cruising.

Jim
 

am1

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
8,171
Reaction score
1,552
I am sure dead people on a ship is not a new thing. Given a few factors that skew that way. But a very bad situation with countries closing their borders and a cruise company and guests not cancelling soon enough. Argentina banned entry to non nationals (including flight crew) which prevented Copa Airlines from returning nationals. A few calls with the embassy and others I guess and 3 flights were able to depart with a non Argentina flight crew. Guayaquil prevented an empty Iberia flight from landing to return people to Spain. Not sure who would want to return to Spain at the moment.
 

Talent312

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
17,875
Reaction score
7,740
Resorts Owned
HGVC & GTS
This is the same ship that we are set to sail on in May
... which sailing HAL has not yet cancelled.

I've seen movies about ghosts on a ship, now I get to be in one?
Someone call Ghost-Busters!
.
 
Last edited:

Talent312

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
17,875
Reaction score
7,740
Resorts Owned
HGVC & GTS
[duplicate]
.
 
Last edited:

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
51,854
Reaction score
23,321
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
Unfortunately the only country with the willingness and ability to take the cruise ship in is the United States. These other countries don't have the medical ability or capacity to accept such a situation. It is sad.
 

Mcjohan

TUG Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
74
Reaction score
93
Location
SF Bay Area, California
Resorts Owned
WKORVN/OF, WLR
I remember reading once that cruise ships are required to have a small morgue. Because of the age of many cruise travelers it’s not that unusual to have a death on board.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
51,854
Reaction score
23,321
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
I remember reading once that cruise ships are required to have a small morgue. Because of the age of many cruise travelers it’s not that unusual to have a death on board.
Problem is that they may not have a very big morgue and 4 people may be over capacity. What do they do there, double up?
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,114
Reaction score
6,472
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
Here’s another story about how the cruise ships and the CDC allowed sick passengers to fly home on commercial airplanes.


Here are a few excerpts for people who can’t access the article.

”A Canadian family that evacuated from the same Italian ship, the Costa Luminosa, traveled through three airports to get home to Victoria, British Columbia, only to learn that all five of them were infected. Michelle Saunders, who was on the Grand Princess when it docked March 9 in Oakland, Calif., was quarantined on an Air Force base in Georgia, then released two days early with a warning that she and the others could still become ill, and possibly make others sick, too.”

“While U.S. health authorities took great pains to sequester passengers from affected cruise ships in the early days of the outbreak, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in recent days have allowed hundreds of exposed and ill cruise passengers to travel on commercial flights across the country, potentially jeopardizing everyone from flight attendants to airport restaurant workers, to unwitting fellow passengers.”

“Carnival put more than 300 Americans and Canadians on a charter flight from Marseille to Atlanta last week. The passengers said they were crammed together on a plane that was repeatedly delayed and held on the tarmac for hours once the authorities learned that three passengers on the flight had tested positive.”

“Many of the passengers knew they were sick, Mr. Turner acknowledged, but they were so exhausted and hungry after a 24-hour trek without food that they would have said anything to be allowed to leave. ‘I needed to get home,’ he said.”
 

am1

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
8,171
Reaction score
1,552
Unfortunately the only country with the willingness and ability to take the cruise ship in is the United States. These other countries don't have the medical ability or capacity to accept such a situation. It is sad.

More the desire and will of the people not to accept the ship. Hopefully the cruise companies rethink which countries will help in a crisis and not just about short term profit.
Argentina to Chile has sounded as a great cruise as not really easy to see it any other way. But the age category, 2 week cruise plus a few before and after on land and the both countries short sightedness in the past to charge Canadians visa fees had kept me away.
 

pedro47

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
23,339
Reaction score
9,481
Location
East Coast
Cruise ship passengers dies on cruise ships all the time, normally from heart attacks, natural death causes, other underline diseases. and just old age. All cruise ships have a small morgue on them. The problem now on a cruise ship is the Coronavirus and the age category that is most vulnerable. Cruise passengers over the age of 60 years old. Holland America and Princess Cruise lines cater to senior cruise passengers this time of the seasons with long cruises to Norway, Finland, Sweden, Russia, China, the Far East, South America, the Middle East and around the world cruises.

My heart and prays goes out to the passengers, the crew and to both HollandAmerica’s ships. Plus, all the family members of the passengers, and the crew families of Holland America.

May the God I am be with you.
 
Last edited:

Talent312

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2007
Messages
17,875
Reaction score
7,740
Resorts Owned
HGVC & GTS
Problem is that they may not have a very big morgue and 4 people may be over capacity. What do they do there, double up?

I read that on planes, they store bodies in a lavatory with a sign that says, "Out of Order."
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,806
Reaction score
5,618
I remember reading once that cruise ships are required to have a small morgue. Because of the age of many cruise travelers it’s not that unusual to have a death on board.
right. Death is super inconvenient and can happen anywhere.

When we get reports that their food freezers are stocked with dead pax, then it's gone into surreal tragedy.

I probably would not want to know that I was sailing with corpses, but it does happen.

I would be more concerned about corona onboard at all, and refusals. Hard to hide, gotta eat, no idea when it would end, or if it would end you.

I was surprised there was still a ship out there, but, then again, why should I be surprised? I will never again believe that "the safety and security of our passengers is our top priority". They would not have sailed if that was priority above $.
 
Top