Cruise costs for those thinking about exchanging for a cruise

[dougp26364]

Simply put, don’t use your points for a cruise unless it’s a use ‘em or lose ‘em situation.

Example:
We booked a New England/Canada cruise, balcony stateroom, with Royal Caribbean in October of 2025. Total cost was $3,400. This was booked direct through Royal Caribbean. Using a travel agent might get you a better deal such as onboard credit or trip insurance thrown in.

Points for the same stateroom using the cruise exchange is 8,250 points for 2 people PLUS $498.

In short it’s going to cost you double using Abound points vs paying cash. Marriott should be ashamed.

 

[geist1223]

That is still a better deal than Worldmark Owners get. When Worldmark Owners use their Credits to purchase something through Wyndham, Wyndham values each Credit at 4 cents. So the cost would be 85,000 Worldmark Credits.

 

[dioxide45]

Evenin a use them or lose them situation, there are better options out there in the Explorer Collection to use them for.

 

[bnoble]

"Sun rises in the East. Film at 11!"

I am not sure why we are surprised by this. I can't think of a single situation in which it makes sense to use timeshare points for non-timeshare travel vs. just paying cash as you go. There might be a handful of corner cases, but they are rare.

 

[jme]

Imho, almost every "exchange transaction" involves a devaluation, some minor and some major,
EXCEPT for that "great" trade with Interval in which a major upgrade in outcome is accomplished, and that being
in regard to location, resort, time frame, or just a fulfillment of a strong desire.
Some trades are a wash and just a lateral move, but there are few "exchange" transactions that do NOT result in Marriott making more money,
but frankly, that's how it's set up.

 

[Ken555]

Most cruises are not worth the least expensive price available today, and trading a timeshare ownership for one is obviously not a good valuation. It always has been, and almost certainly always will be.

 

[Dean]

The very nature of cash type exchanges, such as cruises or Collette, are going to be a horrible deal. I've only seen one examples with DVC where it made sense and that was the inaugural season Disney did AK where the value was fairly close to the rental rate and above the fees. With Bluegreen I can trade points like cash and at one time I received significantly more per point than my fees when doing so but those days are long gone. The only thing MVC has to be ashamed of is that they offer it at all and act like it's a benefit. They have to turn the points into cash and pay a commission to do so and there's no way that will ever make sense for the consumer.

 

[daviator]

Simply put, don’t use your points for a cruise unless it’s a use ‘em or lose ‘em situation.

Example:
We booked a New England/Canada cruise, balcony stateroom, with Royal Caribbean in October of 2025. Total cost was $3,400. This was booked direct through Royal Caribbean. Using a travel agent might get you a better deal such as onboard credit or trip insurance thrown in.

Points for the same stateroom using the cruise exchange is 8,250 points for 2 people PLUS $498.

In short it’s going to cost you double using Abound points vs paying cash. Marriott should be ashamed.

It's even worse than that, since you're only considering the MF cost of the points and not what someone might have spent (especially with a developer purchase) to acquire them. But yes, even if you consider the acquisition cost to be a sunk cost with no anticipated return, it's insulting to be offered a $3000 cruise for points you've just paid $6600 in MFs for... "plus $498."

P.T. Barnum would have had a thing or two to say.

As others have said, this is all pretty unsurprising though, MVC is not running a charity (unfortunately) and their goal in offering these exchanges into third-party products is to make even more money every time somebody elects that kind of exchange.

 

[goodbadugly]

Simply put, don’t use your points for a cruise unless it’s a use ‘em or lose ‘em situation.

Example:
We booked a New England/Canada cruise, balcony stateroom, with Royal Caribbean in October of 2025. Total cost was $3,400. This was booked direct through Royal Caribbean. Using a travel agent might get you a better deal such as onboard credit or trip insurance thrown in.

Points for the same stateroom using the cruise exchange is 8,250 points for 2 people PLUS $498.

In short it’s going to cost you double using Abound points vs paying cash. Marriott should be ashamed.

I've been battling this issue with MVC for years. They are not only ashamed they are proud. Their position is it's better to use them this way then than losing them. So they re doing you a "favor". As I previously stated this was a strong selling point the "sales" staff used. Their position was they bring 400K MVC members to the cruise ship and Collette and negotiate great deals. The part they don't tell you is MVC doesn't pass on the negotiated price.

 

[Dean]

I've been battling this issue with MVC for years. They are not only ashamed they are proud. Their position is it's better to use them this way then than losing them. So they re doing you a "favor". As I previously stated this was a strong selling point the "sales" staff used. Their position was they bring 400K MVC members to the cruise ship and Collette and negotiate great deals. The part they don't tell you is MVC doesn't pass on the negotiated price.

I don't see any reason for battle, I think most of us are smart enough to know it's a bad deal even during the sales hype. I think most would just write it off and move on. That doesn't necessarily mean their skimming off the top, I doubt they are, though I suspect they are paying dramatic commissions to Marriott when they are rented through that method. I do think the negotiated prices are why Collette is a slightly better deal than Cruises. Other than group cruises, cruise companies don't negotiate the deals outside of their usual pricing structure.

 

[pedro47]

Suggestion only if you are looking to book a cruise. Please check with a travel agency first. You probably will receive on board credit and a lower cruise price.
IMHO.

 

[goodbadugly]

I don't see any reason for battle, I think most of us are smart enough to know it's a bad deal even during the sales hype. I think most would just write it off and move on. That doesn't necessarily mean their skimming off the top, I doubt they are, though I suspect they are paying dramatic commissions to Marriott when they are rented through that method. I do think the negotiated prices are why Collette is a slightly better deal than Cruises. Other than group cruises, cruise companies don't negotiate the deals outside of their usual pricing structure.

Collette Tours through are "only" ~30% more than direct. Skimming vs. commissions... What's the difference to the customer?

 

[dioxide45]

I don't see any reason for battle, I think most of us are smart enough to know it's a bad deal even during the sales hype. I think most would just write it off and move on. That doesn't necessarily mean their skimming off the top, I doubt they are, though I suspect they are paying dramatic commissions to Marriott when they are rented through that method. I do think the negotiated prices are why Collette is a slightly better deal than Cruises. Other than group cruises, cruise companies don't negotiate the deals outside of their usual pricing structure.

I suspect much of it is to account for breakage of rental inventory. Along with perhaps underperforming rental inventory. They get the points but they can't all rent out high season in Hawaii for max profit. They have to cut some losses and rent out Brandon in the winter or off season studios in Orlando. Then there is profit.

 

[Dean]

Collette Tours through are "only" ~30% more than direct. Skimming vs. commissions... What's the difference to the customer?

No difference to you or I, simply a bad deal and we should all understand that. The difference in this case is the insinuation that it's underhanded. IMO it's not, it's simply the nature of ANY exchange that MVC ultimately has to cover with cash. Collette, RCL, Carnival, etc simply do not want MVC points; they want cash. As Jeremy points out, that's compounded with the fact that they are not securing and renting the highest demand options, and I wouldn't want them to. This is my experience with DVC as well though I think DVC has the opportunity to secure options that would rent for high $$$, they simply have made a choice not to do so which I appreciate. I've long stated that I felt better for them to not offer the options rather than it be such a poor choice. Their stance is that it offers a choice and I'm sure it's a marketing ploy with no real cost to them.

 

[Ken555]

I don't see any reason for battle, I think most of us are smart enough to know it's a bad deal even during the sales hype. I think most would just write it off and move on. That doesn't necessarily mean their skimming off the top, I doubt they are, though I suspect they are paying dramatic commissions to Marriott when they are rented through that method. I do think the negotiated prices are why Collette is a slightly better deal than Cruises. Other than group cruises, cruise companies don't negotiate the deals outside of their usual pricing structure.

Marriott may only earn standard or preferred commissions on cruise bookings, profiting from their captive program's inflated value of the underlying points.

 

[Dean]

Marriott may only earn standard or preferred commissions on cruise bookings, profiting from their captive program's inflated value of the underlying points.

Which MIGHT be sufficient to cover their costs in administering the program.

 

[Ken555]

Which MIGHT be sufficient to cover their costs in administering the program.

If Costco and other travel agencies can be profitable from their commissions, then I would expect Marriott to be able to do the same, especially when factoring in the additional profit from the inflated value of the points redemption.

 

[Dean]

If Costco and other travel agencies can be profitable from their commissions, then I would expect Marriott to be able to do the same, especially when factoring in the additional profit from the inflated value of the points redemption.

I can't imagine the volume between the 2 is comparable plus I've already made the point that I don't believe MVC is actually profiting from this process on the exchange itself. The only profit is likely the sales they can garner from people that believe it's going to be helpful for them. I'd be willing to look at anything that actually suggests otherwise if you have it, being a bad deal isn't sufficient IMO. I've dug into this with DVC and I know they do not profit from it, they eat the admin costs under the management fee and it's STILL a bad deal.

 

[Ken555]

I can't imagine the volume between the 2 is comparable plus I've already made the point that I don't believe MVC is actually profiting from this process on the exchange itself. The only profit is likely the sales they can garner from people that believe it's going to be helpful for them. I'd be willing to look at anything that actually suggests otherwise if you have it, being a bad deal isn't sufficient IMO. I've dug into this with DVC and I know they do not profit from it, they eat the admin costs under the management fee and it's STILL a bad deal.

I find it unbelievable that any of these for-profit entities would offer a product that doesn't earn profit for them.

 

[goodbadugly]

I find it unbelievable that any of these for-profit entities would offer a product that doesn't earn profit for them.

30% is a hefty profit for moving paper around!

 

[Dean]

I find it unbelievable that any of these for-profit entities would offer a product that doesn't earn profit for them.

It potentially does under sales. From me personally I chose to be smarter than that and not use the option unless something changes so it really doesn't matter. I have never seen a cash type option that was different, it's the nature of the beast. As I noted, I went through this evaluation with DVC and when I say went through this, I mean actually meeting with the staff at DVC headquarters. It wasn't a contentious issue, simply one thing I was discussing with them for something I chose to do. It was a great experience.

If you chose to think otherwise that's your option. If it's important to you maybe you'd rather discuss directly with corporate. If you just want to complain, I guess you can take that approach as well.

 

[Ken555]

It potentially does under sales. From me personally I chose to be smarter than that and not use the option unless something changes so it really doesn't matter. I have never seen a cash type option that was different, it's the nature of the beast. As I noted, I went through this evaluation with DVC and when I say went through this, I mean actually meeting with the staff at DVC headquarters. It wasn't a contentious issue, simply one thing I was discussing with them for something I chose to do. It was a great experience.

If you chose to think otherwise that's your option. If it's important to you maybe you'd rather discuss directly with corporate. If you just want to complain, I guess you can take that approach as well.

I’m not complaining. I’m simply pointing out the obvious re the profit. And I absolutely do not believe that these companies are not deriving profit from their cruise offerings - I don’t care under which department they classify that profit, but if it wasn’t there they wouldn’t offer it. And given the upside down valuation on points/weeks redemption for a cruise, it’s even more apparent that there’s more money left on the table for them.

We have had threads on this topic for decades and it’s nothing new.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dougp26364]

30% is a hefty profit for moving paper around!

What’s this 30% you’re talking about? The markup I’m calculating is nearly 100%.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

I tend to think of the options like cruises, tours, motor home rentals etc, as just another way to use your timeshare. As discussed over and over, its never a great use of your timeshare and you should not buy into the program planning to regularly trade that way.

We did use our points for Collette tour once. The tour we wanted was a MVC exclusive, so there was not a cash option for similar a tour on dates that worked for us. The decision would have been harder if there was a cash option. Then it becomes more about cashflow and how strong is your desire to recover value, even if it diminished value from your maintenance fee.

 

[dougp26364]

We’ve actually found ourselves in a position where we’ve used timeshare three times for a cruise. We took a beating financially each time but, it was a use it our lose it option. So I agree it’s good to have options.

I see posts on TUG asking the question of value, usually because some salesman suggests using timeshare for all of these options as a selling point. Thus the reason for the post, to show the true cost of the option but without taking into consideration the upfront cost of the timeshare, which make a terrible choice look even worse.

The first time we took the cruise option was a II cruise exchange using a week we knew we’d never be able to use. There use to be an II rep in these forums who actually touted that it wasn’t a bad deal at all. That is until I did the math for him.

We’ve used Hilton points for a cruise over a decade back and, while not a good deal was better than losing the value points all together.

Today, however, is the worst exchange rate I’ve ever seen. Something to the tune of 95% inflation in the cruise price if you look at the MF cost of the points plus the mandatory cash fee per person vs the cash cost of the cruise. IMHO Marriott should be ashamed of the markup but should be doubly ashamed,Ed that any salesman uses the cruise option to sell points.