Could this be why our MF are so high at Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas?

[mepiccolo]

In another thread there was mention that all the nice teak lounge chairs were being replaced which chairs that weren't liked as much by the TS owners and the teak chairs given away to the employees. Then there was mention that there was an error in the size of the beds at WKORV north and they were going to replace all the queen size beds with king size beds. Am I the only one feeling like our MF's are being spent foolishly?

I've mentioned before that I believe the furniture at WKORV is all wrong for a beach resort and that is probably why the last time we stayed there it looked like the furniture had been bought at a yard sale - the couches and chairs were pretty dirty and old looking.

How about replacing the dingy furniture with a sturdy rattan furniture more suited for a beach resort where people will be coming in from the beach so that it lasts longer (not to mention looks more Hawaiian). We pay these outrageous MF's and have no say about what they do with the money. It wouldn't be a problem with me if I saw the money was well spent (as my MF are on my SVC Hawaii Club resorts). I have no problem paying those MF because I see that they are well spent. Westin TS...not so much.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I am confused about the switch over form Queen to King beds at WKORV-N. If you look at the resort on the SVO site - it states the the studio-side beds are Queen size.

If true - this switch over will only impact WKORV-N MFs because they are run as 2 separate resorts. But you are correct overall - it appears as if at the current %rate of increase of the MFs that soon the MFs will be astronomical. I have been recently thinking (because of things I have discovered about WSJ) about who controls spending, and who audits the expenses.

The studio-side beds at WPORV are stated as Queen-size. Of course only WKORV has full ovens - with all other ovens being the convection-style.

 

[Westin5Star]

The lounge chairs were in GREAT shape. I understand if they decided to change to a different style when they needed replacing; I just don't think that they needed to do it for 4-5 years or so.

 

[mepiccolo]

I agree that when something needs replacing obviously it should be done but those teak lounges were undoubtedly very expensive.

I'm also confused about Westin not selling the teak lounges to interested buyers. Westin did not manufacture the teak lounges - as long as the teak lounges are sold "as is" where is the liability? They could have also sold them in large quantities and had the buyer sign a release of liability for any potential injuries if they are so concerned about it.

I second the question, who is responsible for spending our MF appropriately and how do we hold them accountable for these bad decisions? Heck, technically we paid for these lounges with our MF, not the employees, so it wasn't Westin's to give away the way I see it. The furniture is in obvious need of replacement but they should be replaced with appropriate furniture so that our MF are not being wasted replacing inappropriate furniture every 2-3 years because of their terrible interior designer (hello, we're vacationing in Maui, not Europe...furnish the units appropriately!) It bugs me to pay so much money in MF and then spend a week in a unit that is in such bad condition while things that don't need to be replaced are and expensive items are "given away to employees" well before there was a need to replace them....hmmmmm......something stinks.

 

[Denise L]

We were just there last month and thought that the chairs were in great shape, too. Who makes these decisions with our high MFs :annoyed: ?! My husband and I both do not like the WKORV-N chairs.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Please remember that the comment on giving away the chairs to employees is not confirmation that this actually occurred. However, this and the other mounting issues, should start to be addressed - and the HOA should be held accountable.

Along this line - unfortunately we respresent a very small percent of total ownership. Our only recourse is to become more vocal and try to gain more in number. Then perhaps we as WKORV owners could then hope to get things changed.

 

[ciscogizmo1]

I disagree... if anything these new lounge chairs will lower our MFs in the long run because the cushions will not need to be replaced so frequently. Maybe now wasn't the time to replace the entire chair but eventually they would need to be. I sat on the cushions lounges over Thanksgiving week and they were very moldy and smelled. So, I'm not sure how you can say that the cushions did not need to be replaced. Also, in that other post I showed a picture of how old the cushions looked. So, are you saying from that picture they looked okay to you? I would agree that the actual chairs didn't need replacing but the cushions did.

 

[Westin5Star]

I looked at the pictures that you posted and the chairs looked in GREAT shape; almost new. The person from Orlando *wood that I talked to on Monday / Tuesday here told me that only 2-3 chairs were not in great shape. After my conversation with him, I walked by and looked at most the resort chairs which all looked new.

The cushions could have easily been sprayed once a week with an odorless mold killing substance. This should have taken one employee less than a day per week vs. several hundred dollars per chair. The quality of the pads seemed fine as I looked at them when I was checking out the chairs. I saw no rips or tears and they were very comfortable.

MFs would have stayed lower with some very slight maintenance of the old chairs. Our reserve had to have been hit for the new chairs which were costly. Instead of our reserve amounts being lowered in the future, these types of decision require it to go up.

BTW, I get a new car just about every year as I do not like old things or things that are not in perfect condition. I am very picky but the chairs that were here were just fine!

 

[LisaRex]

I'm actually glad that they're getting king size beds in the studio side. Now if they could only retrofit ovens into the 1 bedroom side....

 

[mepiccolo]

I too think that the teak chairs were too new to be completely replaced and treating or just replacing the cushions until the teak chairs needed replacing would have been a more cost effective answer. Westin has been around long enough to know what type of lounge chairs work in that climate instead of having to do a complete replacement within 5 years of the resort opening.

I'm not a WKORV North owner but replacing the queen beds in the studio right after they open is the same type of negligent spending. I mean, come on, they knew the square footage, yet they couldn't figure out before buying queen size beds that a king size bed fit? And now all you WKORV North owners are going to buy a bunch of new beds with your MF right after the resort opens. When you get your MF bill and it has already gone up within one year of the resort opening you will know why.

I for one am for Westin getting more competent interior designers, purchasers, planners, account executives, whatever their title is...they're failing miserably at their job. I don't want to be paying double MF than when I started because of negligence, incompetence or nearsightedness. Westin needs to hire people who are more competent at spending other people's money.

 

[califgal]

I agree that the replacement of the teak chairs was very wasteful. The cushions could have been replaced with a durable sunbrella type fabic and treated like westin5star suggested.

The first year we stayed in our unit I couldn't believe it when I saw the selection of fabric for the sofa.....cream! on a high use item! ridiculous! As a decorator I would have selected a retro-old hawaii theme(maybe a bit more modern version of "tommy bahama" style) in durable, easy to clean fabrics, and certainly not cream. But they didn't ask me.......

How can we have our voices heard to keep these maint. fees under control??

 

[DeniseM]

The HOA is completely controlled by Starwood - most of the members of the BOD are Starwood employees....including the Director Elect...so don't hold your breath! - HOA Elections

 

[formerhater]

Agree that wholesale bed replacement right after opening is wasteful, but do we have actual confirmation that this is happening or was this salesperson BS? Just want to make sure we're not getting up in arms over something a salesperson said since we all know how reliable they are...

 

[Lawlar]

Board of Directors and Conflict of Interest

The HOA is completely controlled by Starwood - most of the members of the BOD are Starwood employees....including the Director Elect...so don't hold your breath! - HOA Elections

A person who sits on a board of directors has a fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of the TS owners. Most state laws bar a person from being a member of a board of directors when there is a conflict of interest. Some day a clever lawyer is going to look at how the HOAs are run to benefit the developers - and then there could be some interesting outcomes. (just the ramblings of an old retired lawyer)

 

[mepiccolo]

I'm posting photos of the living room furniture from our other TS to show how I believe a beach resort should be furnished.

The Kauai Coast resort at the Beach Boy was remodeled/refurnished about the same time as WKORV opened. However, having stayed at both twice, the condition of the furniture at the Beach Boy shows almost no where and is going to last a long time, and, in my opinion, looks fantastic, better than Westin's modern cold look. The Beach Boy is furnished very "Hawaiian" and is absolutely lovely.

Maybe it's the Westin's signature to furnish all its resorts all over the world exactly in the same modern type furniture. They really need to rethink that. I love the furniture at the Beach Boy and while I'm at the Westin I look at the furnitures worn condition in disdain, wondering what the heck they were thinking.

 

[DeniseM]

I LOVE the decor at the Kauai Coast resort - it is so beautiful, and tropical! And I agree - it is far superior to Starwood's minimalist "W" look! But think of all the money Starwood saves ordering thousands of the same items to furnish ALL it's resorts!

 

[glenn1000]

Maybe it's the Westin's signature to furnish all its resorts all over the world exactly in the same modern type furniture.

It's called branding. After staying at WKORV over Thanksgiving I stayed at the Westin hotel in San Diego last week- same bed, shower, trash can, furniture and mirror. Same TV and same remote control. I have seen similar branding with other hotel/resort chains.

Personally, I liked the former WKORV lounge chairs and didn't notice anything wrong other than the normal aging you see on anything left outside. Oh well, we'll still have a great time when we return in March....

 

[formerhater]

It's called branding.

Agreed. I'm sure a lot of the branding push is in response to historical inconsistencies amongs brands (not just Starwood). Not that they've solved all of those problems, but it's hard for a company to create brand loyalty if the customer doesn't know what they're going to get from property to property. I think Westin hotels have done a pretty good job of addressing this for the most part. Sheraton hotels have a long way to go as there seems to be a huge variation from property. I realize that hotels and timeshares are a little different, but by slapping the Westin brand (or Sheraton) on a timeshare, Starwood is telling it's customers that they can expect certain things from their properties.

After looking at renderings for WPORV and WLM I think they do a decent job of taking the core Westin design and giving it some local flair. Tastes differ from person to person. A couple of people have pleaded for rattan furniture at the Hawaii props. I say that's great if you want the place to look 20 years old. I happen to like the sleek lines of the Westin look which is one of the reasons I bought Westin timeshares. Different strokes for different folks... If someone doesn't like the Westin look, I'm not sure why they would buy Westin?

As for wear and tear, some could probably be avoided by buying higher quality stuff and some is probably a result of poor maintenance. Either way, I'm sure we'll all end up paying for it with higher MFs. Yay.

 

[mepiccolo]

If someone doesn't like the Westin look, I'm not sure why they would buy Westin?


We bought at WKORV because of the location and the OF view. I don't think furniture is going to make or break someone's decision to buy at a TS location unless the whole place looks like a dump. The cream colored couches and sleek modern style furniture that Westin brands itself with are appropriate for certain locations. I live by the beach - none of my neighbors have cream colored couches.

Cream colored couches for a beach resort are not just ridiculous due to the resort being a beach resort, one also has to consider for the most part families stay at WKORV. I also know no one with children who has cream colored couches. The green couches at the Beach Boy look so much better, do not look worn and stained like the Westin couches. I'm not arguing that there are different tastes for different people. I'm sure some people have beautiful living rooms with cream colored couches. But they don't live at the beach and they don't have children....

 

[BradC]

I don't think furniture is going to make or break someone's decision to buy at a TS location unless the whole place looks like a dump.

Well, let me add my voice then. Whenever Mrs. C and I plan any sort of resort vacation, the first thing she asks is "Do they have padded lounge/beach chairs?" Our hotel and resort selection has previously been swayed by that, and one of the things she noticed about the Westin timeshare resorts is that they all seem to have padded lounge chairs.

She's going to be very disappointed when she hears about the outdoor furniture change at WKORV.

 

[saluki]

Whenever Mrs. C and I plan any sort of resort vacation, the first thing she asks is "Do they have padded lounge/beach chairs?"

Seriously?

 

[LisaRex]

I'm posting photos of the living room furniture from our other TS to show how I believe a beach resort should be furnished.

I guess it shows you how widely varied people's tastes are, but I really like the Westin's signature look. I think that decorating should not try and compete with the scenery outside. In places like Sedona, Colorado, or Maui, then I think the decorating should be very simple and plain with lots and lots of windows. So I was disappointed when the north property reduced their window sizes.

To be candid, I don't like the decorating in the photo you linked to at all.

 

[ciscogizmo1]

Does anyone know what is Starwood's replacement policy? I honestly don't know because I guess, I didn't read all my documents. Or I read it and forgot. For example, Marriott has two replacement schedules. I think, they call them soft replacement and hard replacement. I believe, in most cases they are scheduled at 5 years and 10 years, respectively. I know, each time frame replaces specific items.

So, does Starwood have anything like that? Were the lounges replaced prematurely or was it scheduled to be replaced? Just curious if anyone knows or how we can find out.

 

[BradC]

Seriously?

Seriously.

Granted, it's more like a tie-breaker when we're deciding between two resorts, but it's something that obviously matters to her.

And while she certainly enjoys the chair comfort aspect, she also sees it as an indication of the difference between an upscale and midscale property, reflecting the differences in service and amenities throughout the resort.

 

[DeniseM]

The cushions did make the lounges very comfortable, but the last time we were there, the pads were nasty looking from stains, and spills, and being left out in the rain. I would never sit on one without covering it with towels first. Maybe it's just not feasible to keep the pads in top shape?