Cost effective way to purchase 10,000 points?

[Steve Fatula]

I have a vastly different take than others have opined thus far.

Renting can be ok, I would personally never do it as I am not a trusting person no matter how many times someone may have had success, even if you've done it 100 times without issue. There are indeed upfront savings to resale weeks, lots of savings. The "lower mf" however needs to take into account all the II fees, Marriott fees, etc. which likely take MF closer to points. There is no doubt you can get many gems trading. As pointed out, in some cases, you have to have the points owner from which you are renting do reservations for you to take advantage of ownership level "perks".

The assumption here is less upfront money is better, merely because it's less money. Personally, I look at it differently, sometimes more money is better. I personally would not go for buying the resale weeks method even though it is cheaper upfront (and possibility though not necessarily on MF). I am sure it's 20 to 1 against this view if not more, but fine with that.

 

[csalter2]

Remember to make sure you understand the booking windows at each point level. People recommendI go just buying 1500 points and rent the rest, leave out the fact that you can only book 1+ nights at 10 months out, while those at higher levels are able to reserve at 13 months out.

Also, since with only 1500 DC points you are at owner level, you must pay a 20% additional premium for 13 month reservations and the reservation must be 7 days or longer. If you’re going this route there will be lots of frustration and additional cost trying to get high demand, high season resorts.

 

[Dean]

Also, since with only 1500 DC points you are at owner level, you must pay a 20% additional premium for 13 month reservations and the reservation must be 7 days or longer. If you’re going this route there will be lots of frustration and additional cost trying to get high demand, high season resorts

I'm not personally a big fan of the idea of buying 1500 points resale and buying points for transfer for most situations. I feel you give up far too much including the banking and borrowing for the transferred points. I do feel there are situations where it makes sense but mostly for trips that are every few years with limited use in between and maybe when the main goal is for just a few years with less need afterwards. If finances themselves are the deterrent one likely can't afford it anyway. I do feel getting transferred points can be helpful as a supplement but not as the main goal for most situations.

 

[dioxide45]

IMO, at a $60K minimum, there is no such thing as "cost effective". Especially when at least $30K of that money is down the toilet in junk fees.

 

[Dean]

I have a vastly different take than others have opined thus far.

Renting can be ok, I would personally never do it as I am not a trusting person no matter how many times someone may have had success, even if you've done it 100 times without issue. There are indeed upfront savings to resale weeks, lots of savings. The "lower mf" however needs to take into account all the II fees, Marriott fees, etc. which likely take MF closer to points. There is no doubt you can get many gems trading. As pointed out, in some cases, you have to have the points owner from which you are renting do reservations for you to take advantage of ownership level "perks".

The assumption here is less upfront money is better, merely because it's less money. Personally, I look at it differently, sometimes more money is better. I personally would not go for buying the resale weeks method even though it is cheaper upfront (and possibility though not necessarily on MF). I am sure it's 20 to 1 against this view if not more, but fine with that.

Steve, I would agree with much of what you say. One needs to take a long term approach and look at the benefits, risks, and options considering the upfront costs and ALL the long term costs including II membership, exchange fees, lock off fees and change fees. I too am not a big fan of renting as a major component of the plan. There certainly is benefit to retail including simplicity, certainty and savings of time both personally and in getting usage options earlier so one needs to compare. However I feel that one can often get to the same or better place much cheaper with good choices with resale plus enrollment. And I feel that for many, simply going resale and forgoing the points options paying the other fees is the best choice. The advantage of going that route but planning for all the options up front is you can start there and end up with points later in a well rounded portfolio that gives you lots of options and lots of savings but having all the benefits where needed.

 

[csalter2]

If you are looking to purchase points, then the easiest and most cost effective way to do so is to find someone on Redweek who is selling them as cheap as possible and pay the Marriott $3.00 per point fee. All you have to worry about is if you can get by Marriott’s right of first refusal (ROFR). This is the EASIEST and most COST EFFECTIVE way to do acquire the points.

However, if you are willing to put in a little work and have some patience, there are some other alternatives. I believe others have mentioned buying a resale week and buying points which would be the hybrid bundle that Marriott offers. Usually in those situations you must buy an equal amount of points to which the resale week elects. You will save on the resale week purchase and then with a purchase of points you’re getting somewhere around $7 to $8 per point. That’s better than the $14/point they try to sell you.

What’s important to remember that if you are going to buy 10,000 points, you are buying a higher volume than most and you can negotiate a bit. There are those here who have bought the Marriott Grand Residences fractionals and have many more points and paid the equivalent of $3.00 per point. Now they invest over $100,000 doing this but they have over 20,000-30,000 points. They use some points and rent others to pay the maintenance fees.

There are other avenues that you may wish to pursue through Marriott corporate sales in Utah. I loved the benefit of points, but do not like the maintenance fees that points cost. I would inquire about the purchase of buying your 10,000 points but have in mind you want to purchase two weeks. You want to buy a high points value Caribbean week like Aruba or St. Kitts and a Marriott resale week. Marriott will sell a resale week to you then and if they don’t have the week available immediately they will get a buyback from someone and then give it to you. So now you will have two fully enrolled weeks that you can either use for a week or elect to points. I was able to did this two or three years ago. What is great about this is that your annual maintenance fees per point can be significantly lower than Destination points maintenance fees.

During the summers, Marriott seems to be more flexible with their sales. I would inquire about this. I was able to get the equivalent of 9450 points through buying two weeks. One week is an platinum Aruba Surf Club 2 bedroom ocean view unit which elects to 4075 DC points and the other is a platinum 2 bedroom ocean front Ocean Pointe resale week that Marriott sold me which elects to 5375 DC points. I paid the equivalent of buying the points for about $2.50 on the resale market per point. Remember, Marriott charges an additional $3/point to bring resale points into the Destinations Club. Yes, I could have bought the weeks online for less, but I would not have the flexibility to use weeks at those resorts. My week’s maintenance fees are .39 cents per point as opposed to the .61 per point charge for Destination points. So for those same 9450 Destination points I pay $3685.50 in maintenance fees for 2021 while if I were to have straight trust Destination fees it would be $5764.50 That’s $2079 in savings in maintenance fees. This kind of savings cannot be ignored.

You may wish to at least explore this idea. You will need to find higher value weeks that will help you get to the 10,000 points but use the information here on TUG to review maintenance fees and how much each resort season elects to in order to achieve the points you need. I would look for weeks that you’d like a great deal and that are marketable with lower maintenance fees. Now I was given a choice of whatever resale property I wanted and I did not have any limitations on how many points for which it elected. I am not sure if that would be the same today but it’s worth looking into. In addition, if you are able to find a reasonable deal with Marriott, they give great incentives with it as well. Just a thought to consider that might be worth a look.

 

[Dean]

Here's a mental exercise I went through, it might help some. It assumes on needs a volume of points but it's a framework that should work for any situation at 7-8K points or above.

Let's put some numbers to this and make some assumptions. For the sake of discussion we'll assume that one wants 10-15k points and would like to visit Maui, Aruba and HHI. If one buys resale for MGO OS & MOC OV (old section) and retail to enroll for Aruba Surf Club OV all 2 BR yearly, resale that'd be what, $10K + $15K + $45K. So $70K all in and a year or so to complete. IF one could do the same with a Hybrid purchase (theoretically possible) fees would be irrelevant other than any additional fees during that year. That Hybrid would be, and I'm guessing here, conservatively $130K. For that $60K you'd get an extra years usage, any purchase incentives, less hassle and a year or so earlier access. Obviously the numbers would be different with every variation of the underlying resale week(s). Maybe it's a single week with a Maui OF unit and a 1 BR Aruba Ocean Club Platinum instead which would actually be an even bigger advantage for the resale route IMO. The reality is getting that deal done as a retail Hybrid purchase is not realistic where it is for resale with an enrollment purchase and the resale/enrollment purchase gives one so much more control and and a lot more options. I think it's reasonable to compare each situation and decide and if they are fairly close, I'd certainly take the immediate and guaranteed option but not at $10K or more difference.

OF course one could just buy points, retail that's be around the same, $130K (roughly ~14K points) and resale $70K so also around the same as the resale/enrollment example above. But fees would be $9K on the points and around $6500 with the example above. One would also have the option of actually using the underlying resort which adds additional benefit in some cases. For me at this volume, I would want to get to Chairman's Club, have some underlying resorts/weeks that I might use, have points options AND have trading options so I'd likely throw in a good trading units to enroll as well which would put one over the 15K threshold for Chairman's Club.

 

[csalter2]

I'm not personally a big fan of the idea of buying 1500 points resale and buying points for transfer for most situations. I feel you give up far too much including the banking and borrowing for the transferred points. I do feel there are situations where it makes sense but mostly for trips that are every few years with limited use in between and maybe when the main goal is for just a few years with less need afterwards. If finances themselves are the deterrent one likely can't afford it anyway. I do feel getting transferred points can be helpful as a supplement but not as the main goal for most situations.

I totally agree. It’s too expensive in my opinion to pay at least $15,000 for the ability to rent when you would like and then find you can’t rent the time you want, I would be upset.

 

[Steve Fatula]

However I feel that one can often get to the same or better place much cheaper with good choices with resale plus enrollment.

Correct me if I am wrong, but, if I bought a resale week today, by tomorrow it magically was processed by Marriott and all necessary paperwork done, etc. Now I want to enroll it, I cannot right? There used to always be a purchased before date for those enrollment offers, i.e. had to be at least a year old, etc. Or is that no longer the case and I could enroll the newly purchased week tomorrow?

If it cannot be enrolled and you must wait, then, it's not necessarily the case it can be enrolled at a future time. I admit it seems likely, but one doesn't know. If it turns out you cannot enroll it, then, you have to live in the weeks program which for me wouldn't be an option. Or sell and start over, likely for more money.

If it can be enrolled tomorrow, then, I would say that's certainly a more cost effective way.

All that being said, I got an enrolled week direct from Marriott for ~$4/point all in, so, it is possible when you can find those to get a somewhat decent price. Given how things work today and for my uses, I don't want any unenrolled weeks.

I do agree with you that enrolled weeks generally trump pure points.

 

[Dean]

Correct me if I am wrong, but, if I bought a resale week today, by tomorrow it magically was processed by Marriott and all necessary paperwork done, etc. Now I want to enroll it, I cannot right? There used to always be a purchased before date for those enrollment offers, i.e. had to be at least a year old, etc. Or is that no longer the case and I could enroll the newly purchased week tomorrow?

If it cannot be enrolled and you must wait, then, it's not necessarily the case it can be enrolled at a future time. I admit it seems likely, but one doesn't know. If it turns out you cannot enroll it, then, you have to live in the weeks program which for me wouldn't be an option. Or sell and start over, likely for more money.

If it can be enrolled tomorrow, then, I would say that's certainly a more cost effective way.

All that being said, I got an enrolled week direct from Marriott for ~$4/point all in, so, it is possible when you can find those to get a somewhat decent price. Given how things work today and for my uses, I don't want any unenrolled weeks.

Historically for the amnesty enrollment it is supposed to be in your account at the start of that years program. I know they've made some exceptions but let's assume they do not and you have to wait 6-12 months to enroll. In the interim you could be getting better educated, making contacts and working on the details, for me that'd be contacting my Aruba person if I wanted enrollment. There is risk in terms of the things that can go wrong with a purchase and there is always the possibility M will change or not offer the program going forward. IMO both extremely small risks when looking1-2 years out with appropriate due diligence. There is also the years lost usage but without the fees. I'm a fan of being enrolled for many situations and not for others. What I find is that some make an emotional rather than rational purchase. Of course we're talking today so you'd need to be able to make the $4 PP purchase retail today to be applicable, something from a few years ago or longer would not apply unless it could be reproduced. And honestly, waiting 6-12 months to enroll is likely an advantage rather than a disadvantage. We see so many people who are investigating then a few weeks later they are talking about their offers and purchase. The reality is that we're talking a minimum of $10K for most situations and often multiples of that between resale/enrollment vs retail only to be in the same place or often better with the resale/enrollment. But you'd have to look at each situation to make a final judgment.

 

[Steve Fatula]

What I find is that some make an emotional rather than rational purchase. Of course we're talking today so you'd need to be able to make the $4 PP purchase retail today to be applicable, something from a few years ago or longer would not apply unless it could be reproduced. And honestly, waiting 6-12 months to enroll is likely an advantage rather than a disadvantage.

No doubt on the emotion!

The $4 was 3 years ago, and, I've had a similar offer since, which I declined as I don't need more stuff. I travel enough for us. You'd be surprised what you can find with negotiation and patience.

Learning the system is almost certainly an advantage.

 

[dioxide45]

There is also no reason that the OP has to spring for 10,000 points up front. Why not go out and buy 1,500 for now. Try out the system, maybe rent a little. They said they were closing in on retirement. I take that to mean that they aren't retired yet. They probably don't need 10,000 points out of the gate. That is putting a lot of money on the line for something that may not work as they would expect it to work. It is pretty easy to add points later. In fact, one might be hard pressed to find 10,000 points all at once in a single deal, so there will be multiple closings anyway.

 

[Fasttr]

There is also no reason that the OP has to spring for 10,000 points up front. Why not go out and buy 1,500 for now. Try out the system, maybe rent a little. They said they were closing in on retirement. I take that to mean that they aren't retired yet. They probably don't need 10,000 points out of the gate. That is putting a lot of money on the line for something that may not work as they would expect it to work. It is pretty easy to add points later. In fact, one might be hard pressed to find 10,000 points all at once in a single deal, so there will be multiple closings anyway.

I think OP came to that conclusion in post #16.

 

[TravelTime]

I am confused with why people are recommending buying a resale week and enrolling it. Is MVC still making that offer?

Would MVC allow someone to enroll a high end week like a MOC worth over 7000 points with just a 3000 point purchase? In the end, if they did, that would cost $60K+ to get to 10,000 points.

Buying resale points would likely be between $53,000 to under $60,000.

Can someone say which week you would buy resale and how many points MVC would require you to purchase to enroll it?

 

[davidvel]

I am confused with why people are recommending buying a resale week and enrolling it. Is MVC still making that offer?

Would MVC allow someone to enroll a high end week like a MOC worth over 7000 points with just a 3000 point purchase? In the end, if they did, that would cost $60K+ to get to 10,000 points.

Buying resale points would likely be between $53,000 to under $60,000.

Can someone say which week you would buy resale and how many points MVC would require you to purchase to enroll it?

I don't think anyone is recommending this as it practically cannot be done.

 

[TravelTime]

I don't think anyone is recommending this as it practically cannot be done.

A couple of posters mentioned this strategy.

 

[TravelTime]

I think OP came to that conclusion in post #16.

OP said he thinks he can use 10K points in his original post.

 

[csalter2]

I am confused with why people are recommending buying a resale week and enrolling it. Is MVC still making that offer?

Would MVC allow someone to enroll a high end week like a MOC worth over 7000 points with just a 3000 point purchase? In the end, if they did, that would cost $60K+ to get to 10,000 points.

Buying resale points would likely be between $53,000 to under $60,000.

Can someone say which week you would buy resale and how many points MVC would require you to purchase to enroll it?

Yes, depending on what’s happening in sales at the time, Marriott offers resale weeks in their bundles. I used my scenario. I bought an Aruba week in lieu of points and then Marriott allowed me to pick ANY week I wanted at resale price. I had NO POINT requirements or limitations. I could have chosen, Hawaii, Grande Ocean, St. Thomas, etc. I chose the highest DC point platinum week two bedroom on the Continental United States which after looking at the TUG information provided by Steve Ting was Ocean Pointe with 5375 DC points. It took Marriott a few months to get it but they did. It was a resale week from another owner. It was automatically enrolled.

 

[TravelTime]

Yes, depending on what’s happening in sales at the time, Marriott offers resale weeks in their bundles. I used my scenario. I bought an Aruba week in lieu of points and then Marriott allowed me to pick ANY week I wanted at resale price. I had NO POINT requirements or limitations. I could have chosen, Hawaii, Grande Ocean, St. Thomas, etc. I chose the highest DC point platinum week two bedroom on the Continental United States which after looking at the TUG information provided by Steve Ting was Ocean Pointe with 5375 DC points. It took Marriott a few months to get it but they did. It was a resale week from another owner. It was automatically enrolled.

So how much did you pay total for the Aruba week and your resale week and how many total points did you get?

 

[csalter2]

So how much did you pay total for the Aruba week and your resale week and how many total points did you get?

Around $35k

 

[Fasttr]

So how much did you pay total for the Aruba week and your resale week and how many total points did you get?

According to the thread below…. $54K for 9450 points.

I think I got a real bargain with the maintenance fees

This summer some of you assisted me with my agonizing decision to buy a couple of weeks from Marriott. Well, I bought the two weeks at Aruba Surf Club and Ocean Pointe. The two weeks worth 9450 points are seemingly a real bargain given that buying those points would be over $130,000...

tugbbs.com

 

[csalter2]

Around $35k for Aruba and 18k for Ocean Pointe.

 

[csalter2]

According to the thread below…. $54K for 9450 points.

I think I got a real bargain with the maintenance fees

This summer some of you assisted me with my agonizing decision to buy a couple of weeks from Marriott. Well, I bought the two weeks at Aruba Surf Club and Ocean Pointe. The two weeks worth 9450 points are seemingly a real bargain given that buying those points would be over $130,000...

tugbbs.com

Thank you for finding that post for me.

 

[TravelTime]

So the upfront cost is about the same as buying 10,000 points resale. I assume you are saving on the maintenance fees. What are your maintenance fees on each one?

Do you have other points to get you to Presidential level or are you the level below?

 

[Dean]

No doubt on the emotion!

The $4 was 3 years ago, and, I've had a similar offer since, which I declined as I don't need more stuff. I travel enough for us. You'd be surprised what you can find with negotiation and patience.

Learning the system is almost certainly an advantage.

I haven't seen $4 per point enrolled as a stand alone retail purchase for a reasonable week to own in quite some time. I'd like more info and specifics (? examples) on that option and how it might be available currently.

I am confused with why people are recommending buying a resale week and enrolling it. Is MVC still making that offer?

Would MVC allow someone to enroll a high end week like a MOC worth over 7000 points with just a 3000 point purchase? In the end, if they did, that would cost $60K+ to get to 10,000 points.

Buying resale points would likely be between $53,000 to under $60,000.

Can someone say which week you would buy resale and how many points MVC would require you to purchase to enroll it?

They have yearly for quite a number of years. You can either buy points or a qualifying retail week. For points it's 3000 points to enroll 1 week, 4000 for 2 and 5500 for anywhere from 3-7 weeks. Alternatively one can buy a qualifying retail purchase such as Aruba or St. Kitt's and apparently Spain as well now. For a reasonable week with a decent fees to points ratio, it's almost always significantly cheaper up front AND yearly to buy the qualifying week over the points. The exception would be that sometimes they try to push something like 2 Gold weeks rather than 1 Platinum week. They've also made exceptions to do so for 7.5, 8 or even 12 weeks s one enrollment purchase. IMO the advantages of going this route with a retail weeks purchase are fairly broad, esp when volume is desired. It's usually $10-15K cheaper up front and 2/3 the fees compared to points on the retail week compared to equivalent points. You also have the option to chose exactly what resorts/weeks/views you purchase, often with a retail Hybrid purchase the options are more limited.