Considering ownership with SVO Vistana Villages or Kierland

[kimmenork]

Hello, we are considering ownership with SVO Vistana Villages or Kierland and are looking for advice.

Let me start with saying 8/05 my husband and I visited Vistana Villages and liked the program, what kept us from buying at that point was the horribly rude salesperson. She was quite mean and told us we were wasting her time and we should be more considerate of the sales people. That we were only taking advantage of Starwood and only there for the free gift (this was after a 3 hour presentation which we sought out off the street, not via invitation of any sort). When we met the "manager" he was a 20 yr old who was sorta apologetic but more interested in selling us the explorer package. We said no and left.

We just got home from Kierland 4/22/06 and it was totally different. They were so nice, kind, they said feel free to think about your purchase and call that they can close via mail. We ended up purchasing the explorer package for $2,000 - I see some here got for $1,600-1,800 so I was able to lock in the prices and buy 3 months of time to make the right decision for us.

Now my dilemma is: We live in Pittsburgh, would likely travel to FL before AZ again (its cheaper and shorter flight to stay on the same coast). However, I am afraid that the Vistana staff may be like the sales people. Any input on staff and the resort would be greatly appreciated. Also interested in how many other got treated so poorly and if any apology was made.

We are also looking at buying resale and "upgrading" so we are eligible for the starpoints program.

Thank you.
Kimme

 

[duke]

Kimme:

You can accomplish all you want over the phone. You don't need to worry about the salepersons or any pressure. Go to www.starwoodvo.com and click on the resort you are interested in. Get the phone number, call, and ask for a salesperson. You can ask all the questions you want and they will send you the paperwork. Take your time to review. Enjoy the process.

 

[kimmenork]

Duke,

Do you know if the staff at the Vistana resort are friendly? I'm almost afraid to buy there for the fear that the other staff (registration, bars/restaurants, pool, cleaning staff...) would be as unfriendly as the sales staff.

Thanks,
Kimme

 

[Henry M.]

I have never been to Vistana, but have visited Kierland and Westin Mission Hills and own in Maui. In my experience, the resort staff you see when you visit is completely different than the sales staff - to the point that a front desk manager probably doesn't even know the names of all the sales people. The sales people don't mingle much with the staff and usually stay in their own area with their customers. They are somewhat standoffish with the hotel staff. I wouldn't let the sales staff experience dictate what resort I'd purchase at. It is much better if you get something where you really want to go. I'd ask to speak to a supervisor and let him know what happened the first time.

I purchased at WKOR one year with the sales staff that was remote at one of the Maui hotels (the resort was not built yet). We purchased a second unit from them. We later went to an owner update in the actual property and were close to purchasing our third villa when the salesperson's supervisor came in to "close". He was pretty arrogant and couldn't answer most of our questions. We had all the paperwork done but ended up canceling at the last minute because of him. We still love the resort and the hotel staff is wonderful every time we are there. We never see the salespeople we dealt with even though they are still there.

Knowing what I know now, my first purchase would likely be a resale at a resort I enjoyed visiting, regardless of price. I'd follow later with a developer purchase to get the first property into the system. Duke made a post earlier about how he accomplished this.

The other consideration is whether the Starwood Vacation Network (SVN) is "mandatory" for the property or not (I don't know how it is at Vistana and whether there is a difference between Vistana Resort and Vistana Village. Kierland is a mandatory property). The reason is that with the "mandatory" properties you get to be part of SVN and have exchange privileges with other properties. At "SVN optional" properties you don't and won't be able to get the privilege until you get the property converted by buying another unit from the developer. This might not matter if, for instance, you only want to go to Florida anyhow. It would matter a lot to me because even though I love my home resort I do like to visit other resorts from time to time.

 

[grgs]

(I don't know how it is at Vistana and whether there is a difference between Vistana Resort and Vistana Village. Kierland is a mandatory property). The reason is that with the "mandatory" properties you get to be part of SVN and have exchange privileges with other properties. At "SVN optional" properties you don't and won't be able to get the privilege until you get the property converted by buying another unit from the developer.

Vistana Villages is mandatory; Vistana is not. See the following link for more information:

http://www.tug2.net/advice/Starwood_Vacation_Network.htm

Glorian

 

[duke]

Duke,

Do you know if the staff at the Vistana resort are friendly? I'm almost afraid to buy there for the fear that the other staff (registration, bars/restaurants, pool, cleaning staff...) would be as unfriendly as the sales staff.

Thanks,
Kimme

Kimmie:

We are friendly. Don't worry about the sales persons. Let me know if you need help. Just call and see what you think. Buy where you want to go. We can help if you ask.

Duke

 

[DeniseM]

These resorts are SVN mandatory on a resale (trade within the Starwood system using Staroptions) -

Harborside Resort
Vistana Villages
Westin St. John
Westin Ka'anapali
Westin Kierland Villas

 

[kimmenork]

We would like to trade within the system using options. Kierland said buying in Florida is bad (unless you want to go to your home resort 8 out of 10 years) because it is so over saturated and you wont get a good trade out of that unit. Is this true? Is this only with RCI/II or is it also within the Starwood system?

 

[Pedro]

We would like to trade within the system using options. Kierland said buying in Florida is bad (unless you want to go to your home resort 8 out of 10 years) because it is so over saturated and you wont get a good trade out of that unit. Is this true? Is this only with RCI/II or is it also within the Starwood system?

Within the Starwood system, staroptions are staroptions - regardless of where you own. When you trade within SVN, it is the number of options you have that counts, not where you own.

 

[DavidnRobin]

true - as long as it is a SVN mandatory resort...

if all you are looking to do is exchange, then buy the least expensive SOs possible (either developer or resale)

 

[plead.5th]

I have used my resale unit at Vistana Resort to pull both Harborside and WKORV. I exchanged a 2 bedroom for a 1 bed on each occasion, but I paid $2,000 for the unit. Well worth the purchse I must say. I also exchchanged to Ocho Cascadas in PV, MX, which was very difficult to get into. Now I am hearing that I can get the unit bumped to a SVN property by buying another resort and get Staroptions, I may buy one from the developer.

 

[kimmenork]

I spoke to a sales person at Vistana. He said I can "Upgrade" my resale, which will give me starpoints for the resale unit. However the unit I purchase must be at least $7,500 over what I own. I feel this is a good deal. I am hoping to buy something for 2-5 grand and "upgrade" to a 2 br lock off. The sales person asked why I would want to do this and I frankly said to gain instant equity for my purchase. He was super nice (maybe because I said "Lette treated me sooo poorly last time I was here...").

 

[kimmenork]

Which Starwood Mandatory Resort has the least expensive maintenance fee?

 

[reddiablosv]

Which Starwood Mandatory Resort has the least expensive maintenance fee?

Kierland units seem to have the lowest MFs, however I have seen the lowest priced resales at VV. Ben

 

[plead.5th]

Kimme,

How does the $7500 over work if you do not mind clarifying from your conversation.

Thanks

 

[DavidnRobin]

true - as long as it is a SVN mandatory resort...

if all you are looking to do is exchange, then buy the least expensive SOs possible (either developer or resale)

as follow-up - I like to think of the MFs as 'rent' and cost more like equity, but in reality they both go to the bottom-line - the point being that the bottom line is the cost (MFs + interest lost on cost) vs. value (rental, vacation, amount back on resale).

For us - our WKORV probably doesn't and WSJ probably does when cost v. value is considered - we were a bit impulsive with WKORV, but you can't take it with you...

 

[kimmenork]

How does the $7500 over work if you do not mind clarifying from your conversation.

I asked the sales person if I can "upgrade my unit (at the time I was looking at a 1 bed EOY for $2500 resale. He said that I can "Upgrade" to another unit as long as that unit cost $7,500 or more. I needed to buy something from Starwood directly and they would accept my 1 bed room as a "trade." I was looking at a 2 bed LO. So the 1 bed room EYO would equal about $8,000 in trade/equity towards my upgrade to the 2bd LO. So if LO is $22,900 minus $8,000 "trade in" = I pay Westin $14,900. For the Lock off.

I was going to buy 1 bd Gold in Kierland for $13,000 so for 14,9 I could have LO in Vistana. Unfortunately the 1bd EYO was purchased before I got a chance to buy.

 

[ckuperman]

I own at vvillages and the sheraton Desert Oasis.
My husband and I have stayed at vistana villages 5 or 6 times. Generally we go for 2 or 3 days. I have had a very pleasent experience each time.
We own in the 1st section. This past stay, we were placed in the Key west section. We used our staroptions. I was pleased ,at the ease of putting us in the new section. They must currently treat the whole resort as "the same".
This was important to me. I like the idea of a new room to stay in. I like the idea of new ammenities to check out. I think about 6 to 8 new sections are to be built over the next 5 to 10 years.

To answer your question. Everyone at the resort has been extremely pleasent and helpful.

Our updates have also been ok. Sorry to hear about your unpleasent experience.
I have seen the kierland site and Hotel. I did not go on the tour.
It is beautiful.

Since I live in NY, it is easier to get to Fl. Heck , you can go for 4 days and then 3 at another time.

I think both places are mandatory. (for reasale purposes).
I would go with the one that is easier to get to.
If both places are mandatory. Get it resale, unless you plan on using the star points.
Speaking of the points. I read on tug that starpoints may be devalued.
Hope this was helpful
Carol

 

[kimmenork]

Carol
Thank you, that is what I was thinking, that its easier from Pittsburgh to get to Florida (cheaper, faster, no time zone to worry about...) I'm glad to hear that people have a good time at Vistana. I saw posts about poor treatment from sales people (which I can't believe they allow to happen) and got worried.

How do you stay only a few days? Using options? I thought the only way to go a few days was to use points and go to hotels.

Is there truly no fee to transfer between Starwood resorts? This is the one factor that really sold us. I feel if you give someone $10 grand then you shouldn't have to give and extra hundred for each vacation too. We also liked the network of resorts to choose from. We looked at OLCC and while nice, only 1 resort and fees to go to other places through RCI.

Thank you for your help.

Kim

 

[Henry M.]

The upgrade that Duke and I were talking about was to get your resale purchase counting towards Elite status and having the ability to earn Starpoints (and even StarOptions for SVN-optional units). That can certainly be done. You buy a resale for whatever price you can negotiate. At that point you can't get Staroptions and the unit doesn't count towards SVO Elite status. Later on you can buy another unit from the developer and have them restore the benefits for your reslae unit so you get Starpoints and Elite status for it. Even at optional resorts you can make it so that your resale units earns StarOptions too.

I had not heard of "trading in" a resale villa and getting dollar credit towards a developer unit.

Are you saying you can buy a resale for $2,500 and get $8,000 credit towards a developer unit? Is the $8,000 the current price for the resale unit if you were to buy it from the developer? This doesn't seem to be a good deal for SVO, but it sounds good for the buyer.

 

[Henry M.]

With respect to renting "by the day" i think you can only make those kinds of reservations within 90 days of the arrival date. Each day of the week has a certain number of Staroptions assigned. If you add up the seven day they come out to the same amount as your weekly StarOptions. However, days closer to the weekend cost more than say Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.

For example, at VV a 2BR LO in high season the StarOptions for Monday through Sunday are:

9,550 9,550, 9,550, 14,350, 19,175 19,175 14,350 or 95,700 for the whole week. Friday and Saturday night stays are the most expensive. All of the resorts have a similar structure with Friday and Saturday costing the most StarOptions.

You do not have to pay anything for using the individual days or to exchange to other SVO properties.

 

[grgs]

You do not have to pay anything for using the individual days or to exchange to other SVO properties.

You may have to pay housekeeping fees, though.

Glorian

 

[Bill4728]

I spoke to a sales person at Vistana. He said I can "Upgrade" my resale, which will give me starpoints for the resale unit. However the unit I purchase must be at least $7,500 over what I own.

Just because the saleman said it doesn't make it true. The other thread about getting resale SVO units requalified says that the purchase does not need to be $7500 more. Thread

Do not buy a bigger SVO unit than what you want, until you confirm that what the salesman told you is the true rule and get it in writing.

 

[kimmenork]

What I was told at Kierland is "you can buy a smaller unit now and upgrade later. Buy a 1 bed room and then when you upgrade the money spent on the 1bd is applied or taken off the larger unit, essentially a credit."

I called Vistana and asked the same question. If I buy a resale and upgrade... he said if I bought new and upgraded within a year then I get 100% of my previous purchase price towards the upgrade. If I do this over 1 year then I only get 90% of my previous purchase price.

I then clarified the resale. He said I would get 90% credit of what that unit was bought for. He also told me I can only upgrade the unit if I bought at the same resort that the resale was from. In this case Vistana. I could not upgrade in Kierland with a Vistana resale.

I was looking at an EOY 1 bd for $2,500. It was purchased originally for something like $10,000 from Vistana. Vistana would give me $9,000 value for it towards an upgrade as long as that upgrade unit was $7,500 or more. The resort needed to make a minimum of $7,500 for my purchase.

I thought this was a good deal since there is nothing you can buy for that low a price anyway. And to pay $2,500 for $9,000 worth of equity seemed a good deal too. Unfortunately by the time I got this all together the 1bd EOY was sold.

 

[Henry M.]

That is a good deal for a new unit. You get $6,500 off ($9,000 credit - $2,500 actual cost) the new unit's price by first buying the resale. That's 28% off the $22,900 price of a 2BR LO. I am not familiar with the market for Vistana, but that would be almost as good as buying resale in a place like Maui and the Staroptions would count towards elite perks.