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Considering 2br annual WKORV Garden

clymberz

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We are considering a 2br annual wkorv garden view. We have gone there about every other year from renting on redweek and enjoy it. Wondering what changes to the system we should be aware of as we consider this. It would be a transfer from a family member (parent), so I presume the star points eligibility should be grandfathered. We would want the flexibility of trading and using points, but we are usually limits by school vacations, so recognize there are some limitations and would need to plan very far ahead. I am not opposed to renting it on redweek or here for weeks when we know we may vacation a different way. Have a good network, so it should be pretty doable to get maintenance fees covered at least, I hope. We would love to trade into a high week at Westin skiing, but not sure if that is at all even possible. Would love any suggestions or updates on the new systems of what to expect.
 

jabberwocky

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WKORV and WKORV-N so the StarOptions would transfer regardless of whether it is a sale to family. The benefit to transferring to a family member is that it is treated as a developer purchase so your ability to transfer to Bonvoy (previously Starpoints) would be preserved.

So far there have been no real changes to the system announced and I don't think anyone really knows what changes are coming. The only indications that have been made are that somehow the Vistana resorts will be brought into the Marriott system (what mechanism that would be is unclear). It's a great resort and if you've enjoyed going there it should not matter what happens to the system in the future. You will still have VOI at an in demand resort.

The Maui resorts are relatively expensive if you are wanting to use it for trading. You're probably better off renting and then using the money to rent a week elsewhere.
 

clymberz

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Thanks Jabberwocky and carpie99. Based on maintenance fees for 2020, 2581.01, I think it is deluxe ocean view, owned in the south building. Will check.
 
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$3750
If that's a sale it doesn't specify view and frequency. I'd guess at that price it's EOY and maybe even Island (Parking Lot) View.

With regards rental of non-Ocean Front/Ocean View units I'd say on average it's 50/50 as to whether you'd cover your maintenance fees with those odds increasing significantly if your reservation is in the Jun-Aug time frame.
 

Mcjohan

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If that's a sale it doesn't specify view and frequency. I'd guess at that price it's EOY and maybe even Island (Parking Lot) View.

With regards rental of non-Ocean Front/Ocean View units I'd say on average it's 50/50 as to whether you'd cover your maintenance fees with those odds increasing significantly if your reservation is in the Jun-Aug time frame.

I looked at the listing yesterday, in the details it said it was EOY-O/island
 

DeniseM

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Island View Villas face the parking lot - that's a deal killer for me.
 

jabberwocky

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In fairness to the OP I believe their family already owns the week. They are just wondering about taking it over. I'm not sure what the relevance of the eBay ad is other than to show the value of the week on the resale market is not high.
 

vacationtime1

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OP should be aware that MF's at WKORV are artificially low for 2020; our HOA received a large refund from the County of Maui for overpaid (extorted) property taxes. My credit for 2020 was about $461 for a premium 2bd unit; it was about $636 for a deluxe unit. See https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/10-7-million-refund-for-wkorv-n-owners.298116/

This means that MF's will almost certainly increase by at least these amounts in 2021.
 

clymberz

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Many thanks to everyone who commented. Since I posted previously, I have learned more and it is garden view in the North (WKORV-N). I am not sure if it is one annual, or two eoy, but seems like the effective result is the same.

Now, we are turning our attention to the probate process. I have done a search in the forums on the keyword "probate" and learned a lot. In our case, they were titled directly (no trust) under co-ownership with some close friends. I would love to hear any experiences from tuggers who have gone through the small-estate hawaii probate process, whether doing it themselves, using a local lawyer, and relative costs/timelines.

Thank you.
 

rickandcindy23

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Many thanks to everyone who commented. Since I posted previously, I have learned more and it is garden view in the North (WKORV-N). I am not sure if it is one annual, or two eoy, but seems like the effective result is the same.

Now, we are turning our attention to the probate process. I have done a search in the forums on the keyword "probate" and learned a lot. In our case, they were titled directly (no trust) under co-ownership with some close friends. I would love to hear any experiences from tuggers who have gone through the small-estate hawaii probate process, whether doing it themselves, using a local lawyer, and relative costs/timelines.

Thank you.
Could you explain a bit? Did the owner die, but there are co-owners on the deed who don't want the unit?

I wouldn't take it, if you can keep from taking it. It's got very little resale value, and the MF's are very high. If this is in the estate, you can allow it to go back to the resort. No one has to take a burden like that one. I know it's Maui, but fees are crazy for an island view. This is not a good year for taking on fees.
 

Eric B

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Do you know how it was deeded to the group, that is as tenants in common, joint tenants with right of survivorship, etc.? That would make a difference in how things come out.
 

clymberz

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Thanks for the quick response. In a nutshell, two couples (say A-B and B-C) bought two weeks together. One of the 4 passed. From what I understand, I don't believe giving it back to the resort is really an option(?) and probate is needed to separate title regardless. I think of it in 3 logical, not practical, steps:

1. Break between the two couples.
2. probate for spouse A/B to spouse B.
3. Transfer ownership from Spouse B to heirs.

Regardless of Step 3, there does not seem an easy way to get through steps 1 & 2. Even if we didn't want it, Spouse B will be responsible for maintenance fees?

I appreciate the direct feedback on value and would not wish for sugar coating on an Internet message board-- but that is hard medicine to take. :) Admittedly, I am guessing the value is in the $6-9k range for week (??). And quotes from lawyers to process probate in Hawaii were: DIY ($1500 with Lawyer instruction); Lawyer Managed (slow: $4.2k and fast: $6.5k).

From a purely financial position, we have been okay renting on redweek to meet the families in Hawaii, so taking this over is more about helping the family and smoothing transitions.

I had hoped that simply paying the maintenance fees and renting out summer months would be a way to keep it in the family, mitigate financial pressure on Spouse B and kick the can down the road . Had hoped this was the "easy button." Not sure if there is an easy button now. Even if we just left it titled as-is, and rented/paid maintenance fees, there will eventually be a need to go through this, and it may be even more complicated then.
 
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