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Confused by timeshare update today

Blonde

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Another question! I have highly recommended that my parents send the certified letter to rescind, but they haven't yet bc they went back to the sales office in person and made a written request with contract number and signatures (including a signature of a Wyndham employee to indicate the request to rescind had been received). To follow up that, my mom emailed the lady that was there for the closing (also a Wyndham employee). See images for my mom's email and the response. Is that good enough or should they STILL send certified letter? It's in writing/email.
 

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Jan M.

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Wyndham Presidential Reserve at Panama City Beach
Club Wyndham Access
Grandview Las Vegas and Discovery Beach Resort - Both in RCI Points
Woodstone and Summit at Massanutten - Both in RCI weeks used as Wyndham PICs
Another question! I have highly recommended that my parents send the certified letter to rescind, but they haven't yet bc they went back to the sales office in person and made a written request with contract number and signatures (including a signature of a Wyndham employee to indicate the request to rescind had been received). To follow up that, my mom emailed the lady that was there for the closing (also a Wyndham employee). See images for my mom's email and the response. Is that good enough or should they STILL send certified letter? It's in writing/email.

I would still send the letter just to be on the safe side.
 

SNA27

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This is the same deal they tried with my Uncle. The sales guy told him he wasn't taking a commission on the deal this was noted in part of the discount. You either had this offered to you or did you steal sales playbook?

I have a fertile imagination! ;)

Btw, I will NEVER fall for a numbers con! SalesWolves in Myrtle Beach tried to play that game saying I can use my points to pay maintenance fees! Those imbeciles couldn't see they were outmatched and were alerting all my systems to go to DEFCON 5!
The idea is to get me away from my comfort zone and appeal to some deep-felt guilt or need or my coveting the top spot and my capacity and willingness to pay a reasonable price to reach it! That's the playbook they run against me! And the soft spot in my heart for decent people who have fallen upon hard times! Savior complex! I think I fell for that one in Fairfield Glades! But, I have no regrets! So, that's how they get me! Different strokes for different folks!:)
 
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HitchHiker71

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I would still send the letter just to be on the safe side.

I agree with Jan - send the letter regardless - doing something redundantly guarantees the outcome - two is better than none. :) There's usually an actual rescission form called a "Notice of Intent to Cancel" that must be filled out when rescinding at a local office. I'm attaching a heavily redacted version of the form I'm referring to, but it at least shows the format of the rescission form used at the local sales centers. The fact that I haven't seen this form in this thread from the local sales center makes me nervous.

On an unrelated note, you asked about the differences between Club Wyndham Plus (CWP), Club Wyndham Access (CWA), and Club Wyndham Select (CWS). Think of CWP as an Exchange system, much like RCI is an Exchange for any timeshares that belong to the RCI Exchange system. People can trade their RCI integrated weeks/points into the RCI system - and then use the value of those weeks/points at other RCI member resorts - to book inventory that is available for trade - because timeshare owners at all of the other RCI resorts have done the same - traded their weeks/points into RCI so that they can also go to other RCI member resorts. Make sense?

CWP is the Wyndham exchange network. The exchange is made up entirely of deeded ownerships from the various individual resort locations. The first is Club Wyndham Select (CWS) owners, or what is affectionately called deeded ownership like your parents have today - where your parents own a deed from the Grand Desert timeshare location. The second is Club Wyndham Access (CWA) owners. CWA is simply a trust that is owned by Wyndham - that holds a bunch of deeds from the various timeshare locations owned by Wyndham. Each person that buys into the CWA trust - essentially owns the right to access and book any available inventory that consists of all deeds that CWA holds.

So where does CWP come in? Let's say you are a CWA owner - like I am - but you want to book into a Wyndham resort that has no deeds within the CWA trust. Like Wyndham Midtown 45 in NYC for instance. CWP is the exchange, similar to RCI, that allows me to access inventory and trade my CWA points into CWP - and to then use those points to book into a CWS deeded resort like Midtown 45. Same for every deeded owner out there, like your parents. They can take their 315k Grand Desert deeded points - and use CWP to exchange those points for time at any other timeshare CWP member location.

There are actually folks out there who have been banned from the CWP network for attempting to game the system repeatedly. They can still own their deeds, but without access to CWP - they cannot trade their ownership using the CWP exchange, so for folks like this, they can only use their deeded ownership at their actual timeshare location, such as Grand Desert. Hopefully this helps to explain the differences between the types of ownerships and how they work within the CWP Exchange network. :)
 

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dgalati

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I agree with Jan - send the letter regardless - doing something redundantly guarantees the outcome - two is better than none. :) There's usually an actual rescission form called a "Notice of Intent to Cancel" that must be filled out when rescinding at a local office. I'm attaching a heavily redacted version of the form I'm referring to, but it at least shows the format of the rescission form used at the local sales centers. The fact that I haven't seen this form in this thread from the local sales center makes me nervous.

On an unrelated note, you asked about the differences between Club Wyndham Plus (CWP), Club Wyndham Access (CWA), and Club Wyndham Select (CWS). Think of CWP as an Exchange system, much like RCI is an Exchange for any timeshares that belong to the RCI Exchange system. People can trade their RCI integrated weeks/points into the RCI system - and then use the value of those weeks/points at other RCI member resorts - to book inventory that is available for trade - because timeshare owners at all of the other RCI resorts have done the same - traded their weeks/points into RCI so that they can also go to other RCI member resorts. Make sense?

CWP is the Wyndham exchange network. The exchange is made up entirely of deeded ownerships from the various individual resort locations. The first is Club Wyndham Select (CWS) owners, or what is affectionately called deeded ownership like your parents have today - where your parents own a deed from the Grand Desert timeshare location. The second is Club Wyndham Access (CWA) owners. CWA is simply a trust that is owned by Wyndham - that holds a bunch of deeds at various timeshare locations owned by Wyndham. Each person that buys into the CWA trust - essentially owns the right to access and book any available inventory that consists of all deeds that CWA holds.

So where does CWP come in? Let's say you are a CWA owner - like I am - but you want to book into a Wyndham resort that has no deeds within the CWA trust. Like Wyndham Midtown 45 in NYC for instance. CWP is the exchange, similar to RCI, that allows me to access inventory and trade my CWA points into CWP - and to then use those points to book into a CWS deeded resort like Midtown 45. Same for every deeded owner out there, like your parents. They can take their 315k Grand Desert deeded points - and use CWP to exchange those points for time at any other timeshare CWP member location.

There are actually folks out there who have been banned from the CWP network for attempting to game the system repeatedly. They can still own their deeds, but without access to CWP - they cannot trade their ownership using the CWP exchange, so for folks like this, they can only use their deeded ownership at their actual timeshare location, such as Grand Desert. Hopefully this helps to explain the differences between the types of ownerships and how they work within the CWP Exchange network. :)
What are some documented examples of gaming the system.
 

SNA27

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I agree with Jan - send the letter regardless - doing something redundantly guarantees the outcome - two is better than none. :) There's usually an actual rescission form called a "Notice of Intent to Cancel" that must be filled out when rescinding at a local office. I'm attaching a heavily redacted version of the form I'm referring to, but it at least shows the format of the rescission form used at the local sales centers. The fact that I haven't seen this form in this thread from the local sales center makes me nervous.

On an unrelated note, you asked about the differences between Club Wyndham Plus (CWP), Club Wyndham Access (CWA), and Club Wyndham Select (CWS). Think of CWP as an Exchange system, much like RCI is an Exchange for any timeshares that belong to the RCI Exchange system. People can trade their RCI integrated weeks/points into the RCI system - and then use the value of those weeks/points at other RCI member resorts - to book inventory that is available for trade - because timeshare owners at all of the other RCI resorts have done the same - traded their weeks/points into RCI so that they can also go to other RCI member resorts. Make sense?

CWP is the Wyndham exchange network. The exchange is made up entirely of deeded ownerships from the various individual resort locations. The first is Club Wyndham Select (CWS) owners, or what is affectionately called deeded ownership like your parents have today - where your parents own a deed from the Grand Desert timeshare location. The second is Club Wyndham Access (CWA) owners. CWA is simply a trust that is owned by Wyndham - that holds a bunch of deeds from the various timeshare locations owned by Wyndham. Each person that buys into the CWA trust - essentially owns the right to access and book any available inventory that consists of all deeds that CWA holds.

So where does CWP come in? Let's say you are a CWA owner - like I am - but you want to book into a Wyndham resort that has no deeds within the CWA trust. Like Wyndham Midtown 45 in NYC for instance. CWP is the exchange, similar to RCI, that allows me to access inventory and trade my CWA points into CWP - and to then use those points to book into a CWS deeded resort like Midtown 45. Same for every deeded owner out there, like your parents. They can take their 315k Grand Desert deeded points - and use CWP to exchange those points for time at any other timeshare CWP member location.

There are actually folks out there who have been banned from the CWP network for attempting to game the system repeatedly. They can still own their deeds, but without access to CWP - they cannot trade their ownership using the CWP exchange, so for folks like this, they can only use their deeded ownership at their actual timeshare location, such as Grand Desert. Hopefully this helps to explain the differences between the types of ownerships and how they work within the CWP Exchange network. :)


Thanks for the info. I had always assumed CWP was a way to book Worldmark locations. Where you can't book online but have to call and pay a $99 fee. I have to read up more on this.

So, if someone owns ONLY resale deeds, how do they get access to CWP? What contract do they sign with Wyndham to get access to CWP? What prevents Wyndham from denying resale buyers access to CWP? Shouldn't there be some verbiage in the individual deeds about being part of a WHOLE? Otherwise, why would anyone buy the deeds?

I am looking at my Smoky Mountains Warranty Deed, there is a whole lot of verbiage about a 'Fairshare Vacation Ownership.

1577985494630.png



And what about this footnote from CWP Program guidelines?

1577985769441.png
 
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paxsarah

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Club Pass is different from Club Wyndham Plus. Resale-only owners don't have access to Club Pass, which is the exchange to Worldmark available at 9 months.

My resale deeds do include similar verbiage to yours. It's the exact same wording, I believe, as the deed for the original retail owners of my contract would have contained.
 

SNA27

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Ha! CWP versus WCP! I will get it right one of these days! :wall:

So this is not the exchange @HitchHiker71 was describing! This is WCP! Now, I will hunt down the definition of CWP!

1577987136402.png
 

HitchHiker71

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National Harbor Resale (689k)
Ha! CWP versus WCP! I will get it right one of these days! :wall:

So this is not the exchange @HitchHiker71 was describing! This is WCP! Now, I will hunt down the definition of CWP!

View attachment 15984

Yup, you got it. Wyndham Club Pass is the exchange network that was set up to allow CWP members to exchange their points via WCP, and along with the $99 exchange fee (similar to the exchange fees RCI charges when booking into other RCI member resorts) allows a CWP member to trade points and book inventory in the Worldmark system. CWP is the member exchange that every developer/resale owner uses to trade points between the various Wyndham resorts for bookings.
 

HitchHiker71

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National Harbor Resale (689k)
This is by design for sales to daze and confuse.

I get what you are saying here, but I disagree with your premise. The concept of timesharing, and the underlying real estate ownership trusts that allow for timesharing, are inherently complex. Sure, sales takes advantage of this fact, but its complex by design - is has to be to facilitate timesharing and to necessarily separate the real estate from the ownership constructs, at least to some extent. If you actually read the trust documents, timesharing is not even required for the underlying real estate ownership interests. It's used at Wyndham's sole discretion. The fact is that there is some inventory that Wyndham owns that is not in CWP altogether, and also some inventory that is trust owned - but is not plugged into CWP for timesharing.

The average Wyndham sales rep is just as "dazed and confused" as most of us when it comes to really understanding how timesharing legally works. All the sales personnel care about is their next commission. The reality is that precious few of them really understand much of anything about the legal complexities of the ownership plans and trusts that the products they sell are built upon. They know just enough to sell the product, and that's about it IME.

Why do I say this? Because I attend updates almost everywhere I go, and I've asked many a timeshare sales rep to explain to me the differences between CWA and CWS, and how CWP actually works and applies to CWA/CWS. About 50% of them can outline generally what CWA/CWS differences are - since they sell both, however only about 10% of those I've come across can explain to me what CWP actually is. 90% of the sales staff could not have written the explanation I wrote above IME. Sad to say really.

That said, timesharing was not designed for the sole purpose of allowing for sales to "daze and confuse" people - but it's a happy outcome for Wyndham that an inherently complex product can more easily be sold using convenient half truths from their sales and marketing division. :)
 

emstep

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So please bear with me in this post. My parents bought a timeshare back in Las Vegas in 2001 when it was still Fairfield. I think it cost them 30,000 dollars, which they have fully paid off. So I think this means the Wyndham Grand Desert is their home resort. I know they have VIP Silver status with Wyndham. They get 315,000 points a use year that they usually let my husband and I use to travel with. They also can convert points they haven't used to RCI points before they expire. Their maintenance fees or whatever are 125$ a month (I think I'm remembering it right). My husband and I always avoid the timeshare meetings and haven't ever attended one. Well we were staying at the Wyndham Patriots Place in Williamsburg with my parents and they went to a timeshare update meeting for the free breakfast yesterday. My dad is very skeptical of everything and is an accountant who isn't afraid to shut people down so I thought it would all be fine. 5 hours later they come out of it having spent 40k. My dad tried to explain it to me but I don't really understand so I'm hoping you guys can tell me if they need to back out of whatever they signed. A lot of what they told me sounds like sales tactics and not the truth. Ok so here I go trying to explain it...
-My dad said that the sales rep said that in 2013 Wyndham shifted the way they do ownership to a new "model" and they now have access to more resorts. They said my parents were contacted in mail and email about this, but my parents never responded. They were shocked my parents didn't know about this. When this shift happened, Wyndham owners were offered a new option? The sales guy said that when he looked up my parents names there was a "red flag" on their account and since they had never initialed or signed anything recognizing they had received this update on Wyndham that their maintenance fees hadn't gone up
-My dad explained that they own(ed) a deed at Wyndham Grand Desert. The sales guy said a lot of people have been opting out of their timeshare, so that would mean that since my parents still own the deed that their costs would be going up bc of new "assessments" or something at the Grand Desert. And that the Grand Desert had recently been updated so their costs would definitely be going up if they didn't get rid of their deed.
-My dad has always been worried about what would happen to the timeshare if they died bc he didn't want me to be stuck with trying to get rid of it. So he said the sales guy convinced them to get rid of their deed at the Wyndham Grand Desert and use 40k to buy like 125,000 more points. Which they did. Bc the guy said if it wasn't a deed that was owned it would be easier to get rid of if they died?
-And they're giving them a bonus of like 125,000 more points for the first year or two (so that would mean we have like 565,000 points for each of the next two years and then after that just 440,000 each year)

So did my parents get duped? Please help!
Oh my gosh, we seem to have been at the same place at the same time and got duped together. However, we were told the exact opposite. I bought at Grand Desert with my ex-husband in 2014. We purchased as a deeded property at 300,000 points, I think. We visited the resort in San Antonio a year or so later and at that "update" we were told something very similar to what your parents were told, we should switch to CWA because it gave us more properties and blah blah blah. We were also sold on buying enough points to get us to VIP Silver. Since then and because I do most of the traveling with the points, I have gone to a couple updates and avoided others like the plague!
My new husband and I were at Wyndham 45 in NYC the week of Christmas and decided to do an update because they said a lot of things were changing with the program in 2020. Ok, fine lets make sure we here the new stuff. I have NEVER been treated so badly. I won't even go into all the details because quite frankly, no one at Wyndham truly cared even after they said they wanted to turn those people in. We were told that the levels were changing and we should buy more points because it would ensure us access to better properties. We were also told that we should want to own at a place like NYC because if you drew a pyramid, our current ownership was the bottom and a place like NYC was much better and at the top. ANYWAY.....we were so upset at the way we were treated that we were not looking forward to our next week which was being spent at Patriots Place in VA. Upon check in they were very nice and showed much concern and anger over how we were treated. Being told that Patriots Place was not a sales site but an "owner educational site." We were told we would be meeting with a very experienced rep that could help us understand what the new updates were and would even possibly want us to write a statement on how we were treated. So the day of the update, we were greeted by our rep and he mentioned that he heard how horrible we were treated in NYC and he was sorry to hear that. He asked the name of our rep there and when we told him, he said "oh yes, I know her. They are real go getters there. I worked there for 2 years and go back several times. I don't want to spend too much time on your last experience, lets worry about getting you the correct info." 10 mins into our chat, he got called away to tend to "a guest from yesterday that was having issues", and was to return ASAP......never to be seen again. We were given another rep, very nice lady but the info she gave us was EXACTLY what you stated above except the complete opposite. She pulled my CRS or CSR, can't remember, and said she had to close everything out and if the lady in NYC spoke to us about any of the things on the list, I would have to write a statement asking Wyndham for another chance to upgrade to one of the new levels. Like had us believing that if we didn't make this move, we would be cast out into the land of CWA misfits. We were told we needed to get rid of CWA because Wyndham was changing to Wyndham Destinations and that CWA was in debt because of all the new properties it had assumed and the updates it was doing to them. We were also told that we had no "buy back" options with CWA and with the change we would never have an option to purchase a deeded property after the stroke of midnight on 12/31/19. We would only be able to purchase additional points in blocks of a min of 500,000. Our rep told us she was NOT a sales rep, merely an educator and if we even thought about buying, she would have to get a sales rep for us......we went all the way through the process listening to their "you're going to be stuck in a bad situation unless you buy these points" even down to them giving us an offer and she never had a "sales rep" come in. She told us she didn't haggle, what she showed us was the bottom line and the bare min they could offer. She spoke of things in a far off land like, a Plus Partners brochure to show us how to make the most of our points, a copy of the CWA budget and copies of the proof that our fees would be going up tremendously. She told us she would give us all of these things because she was a straight shooter, by the books, nothing to hide educator of all things Wyndham. When we finally had a firm "no" the, what I call the closer...lol, came in and funny enough offered us the same points at HALF the cost. Either way, we left there thinking, "what have we done? have we just put ourselves in a bad situation to not take advantage of our full membership potential??" We also left there.....wait for it, empty handed with none of the information we were promised. We came home diligently searching for a cheaper deeded property hoping to get our "less than desired CWA points" switched over before the new changes. Also in the meantime, we reached out to a dear friend that used to do backend sales for Wyndham. This friend will openly admit and still feels terrible about the sales tactics they are taught to use. She was honest, FINALLY someone was honest, about the mere tactic they use to always try and sell you the opposite of what you have by making the other option seem like the better of the 2. I am sorry your parents had that experience. I overheard several conversations between both locations that made my heart hurt for the people on my side of the desk. Hard sales to a single mom, telling her that she should want to give her son something like this and it was worth the sacrifice AFTER she told them she was she was barely making ends meet now and this was the only vacation she could give him. I LOVE using my Wyndham points and enjoy all the places I can take my family. I just wish they did their business with integrity.
 
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