• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Confessions of a car salesman (Edmund's)

arlene22

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
973
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
New Jersey
It took a while to read, but it was fascinating. Thanks for posting.
 

copper

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
254
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
Terrace Lakes, Idaho
arlene22 said:
It took a while to read, but it was fascinating. Thanks for posting.

ditto ditto (as the bbs software requires at least ten characters in any response)
 

arlene22

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
973
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
New Jersey
Now all we need is to find someone to go undercover as a timeshare salesman, and expose all thier secrets, ha ha!
 

T_R_Oglodyte

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
16,117
Reaction score
8,064
Points
1,048
Location
Belly-View, WA
I'm the white guy using the internet that was mentioned in the article.

I just replaced my wife's car with a 2-year old Mitusbishi Outlander. AFter we decided to look seriously at those, we visited the used car lot of a Mitsubisihi dealer near us. After our test drive they were ready to talk numbers, I said we were in the $14l - $15k range, and they immediately said they couldn't sell the car for that - and that the numbers were so far apart it wasn't worth discussing. So I thanked them for their time and headed on.

A day later using the internet I found three almsot identical vehicles seeling in eastern Washington for $14k. I told them I was willing to pay $15,500 to avold a drive to eastern Washington, and by the end of the day we closed the deal at $14,750 - I increased my offer price by $250, but got them to take my old car in trade-in at $250 over wholesale blue book.

The internet moved them to a number they wouldn't even discuss initially. 'Course, I had to keep pointing out to them the difference in what they were offering vs. the on-line ads and keep saying that for the difference in price it was worthwhile for me to drive to Yakima and get the vehicle.

So I just put my price out there, with a credible threat, and watched them drop the price time after time after time until I got up and was ready to leave. Then they made a last ditch offer and met my price.
 

NormanC

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
Points
361
Location
SF Bay Area
Very entertaining and informative article. Thanks for posting it.

The sad thing is that the uninformed and naive customers that the dealers fleece are the ones that keep the dealership doors open now that more and more folks are going the internet route. Which means of course that the poor and uneducated are getting poorer...

Norman
 

T_R_Oglodyte

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
16,117
Reaction score
8,064
Points
1,048
Location
Belly-View, WA
NormanC said:
Very entertaining and informative article. Thanks for posting it.

The sad thing is that the uninformed and naive customers that the dealers fleece are the ones that keep the dealership doors open now that more and more folks are going the internet route. Which means of course that the poor and uneducated are getting poorer...
Not unlike timeshare sales. The savvy people get on the internet at the resort and do research right before or soon after the sales presentation. The others generally overpay.

I think that one of stongest motivations for getting educated is the realization that your ignorance is allowing other people to take advantage of you.
 

Patri

Tug Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
6,728
Reaction score
4,006
Points
648
I was an internet buyer on our last car, and it was the most enjoyable of the horrible experience of buying a car. I dickered via email. The dealer in the next town wouldn't participate. The local dealer did and a farther-away dealer did, and I got what I think was a fair price. Now our salesperson (a woman) is working for the dealer in the next town! Wonder if she'll dicker over the internet when I try.

I wonder why the dealership on edmunds that was no-hassle didn't have much business. I would have liked the author to go into more detail on whether those types of sales are better for the consumer.

He confirmed why I hate face-to-face dealing in buying cars. Hopefully that style will fade away as people get more internet savvy. The younger generations probably won't put up with those sleazy tactics.
 

Jestjoan

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
2,776
Reaction score
1
Points
38
What other cars are no dicker besides Saturn, if they still are?
 

BocaBum99

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
6,651
Reaction score
4
Points
323
Location
Boca Raton, FL
T_R_Oglodyte said:
Not unlike timeshare sales. The savvy people get on the internet at the resort and do research right before or soon after the sales presentation. The others generally overpay.

I think that one of stongest motivations for getting educated is the realization that your ignorance is allowing other people to take advantage of you.

This explains my situation exactly. I really fell in love with the timeshare concept after spending 6 hours asking questions to my sales guy. He was very honest and knowledgeable. I bought from him and at first I was really excited.

But, I kept waking up in the middle of the night while on my vacation in Hawaii thinking that for some reason I was getting ripped off.

I spent the next 5 or 6 days of my Hawaii vacation researching the internet to prove it one way or another. That's when I found TUG and Redweek. After making a couple of offers, I knew I was getting ripped off by buying from the developer. I rescinded my deals while on the islands. Whew! Thanks TUG.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
16,117
Reaction score
8,064
Points
1,048
Location
Belly-View, WA
BocaBum99 said:
This explains my situation exactly. I really fell in love with the timeshare concept after spending 6 hours asking questions to my sales guy. He was very honest and knowledgeable. I bought from him and at first I was really excited.

But, I kept waking up in the middle of the night while on my vacation in Hawaii thinking that for some reason I was getting ripped off.

I spent the next 5 or 6 days of my Hawaii vacation researching the internet to prove it one way or another. That's when I found TUG and Redweek. After making a couple of offers, I knew I was getting ripped off by buying from the developer. I rescinded my deals while on the islands. Whew! Thanks TUG.
Almost exactly our situation as well. We were at the Marriott Kauai Beach Club. The salesman absoultely and totally sold us on the value of timeshares. That night, I connected to the internet on dial-up from the room phone, and started learning.

Later during that trip, we stumbled across a Timeshare Resales Hawaii office, and found out more about the resale market. Before we left the islands, we had decided that Embassy was where we wanted to buy, and we sent the rescinding papers for Maririott the day after we got back.
 

Mosca

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
1,463
Reaction score
8
Points
248
Two things:

On our last visit to Hawaii, we took a time share tour. The "funnel" sales process was pretty transparent, but the presenter was nice, and we wound up in the negotiating/closing office by dint of the system. I told the negotiator that I was aware of the resale market and a member of TUG (I AM a member, despite what my status bar says). He then got his manager, and we had a very nice low intensity conversation about timeshares, value, and the resale market. He then agreed with me that we weren't really their target customers and congratulated us on our awareness and we parted friendly.

No dicker dealerships don't work. Almost every customer takes the "one price" offer to the dealer across town to see if they can beat it. I've been making a living in retail automotive sales and management for 20+ years. Very often what people say they want and what they really want are two very different things. You have to pay attention to what people do, not what people say.


Tom
 

T_R_Oglodyte

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
16,117
Reaction score
8,064
Points
1,048
Location
Belly-View, WA
Mosca said:
No dicker dealerships don't work. Almost every customer takes the "one price" offer to the dealer across town to see if they can beat it. I've been making a living in retail automotive sales and management for 20+ years. Very often what people say they want and what they really want are two very different things. You have to pay attention to what people do, not what people say.


Tom
No dicker won't work as long as auto dealers are prevented from selling directly to the public. An auto maker should be able to institute no dicker selling, post a price on the internet, and make that the price for the car, tax, title, shipping, regiistration not included. Buyers get that price whether they order on line or go to a dealer. But dealers have effectively prevented auto makers from doing direct sales.

It is very true that what people say they want and what they do is very different. Another good example of that is airfline fares. People grumble and complain about poor service and say they would gladly pay a bit more for better service. But every airline that has tried that approach has seen their potential cusotomers flock to a competitor with worse service if that competitor offers a fare that is $25 lower.

The message from the public is clear. Give the choise of lower air fares and crummy service, or higher air fares and better service, lower air fares will win every time.
 

BocaBum99

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
6,651
Reaction score
4
Points
323
Location
Boca Raton, FL
T_R_Oglodyte said:
Almost exactly our situation as well. We were at the Marriott Kauai Beach Club. The salesman absoultely and totally sold us on the value of timeshares. That night, I connected to the internet on dial-up from the room phone, and started learning.

Later during that trip, we stumbled across a Timeshare Resales Hawaii office, and found out more about the resale market. Before we left the islands, we had decided that Embassy was where we wanted to buy, and we sent the rescinding papers for Maririott the day after we got back.

Steve,

Wow, it's amazing how similar our stories are. But, I took the looong road to figure out what was right for me.

The first resort I bought and rescinded from was the EVR Kaanapali. I loved that resort. They sold me on the concept of points. Then, I went to the big Island and went to a second pitch, this time with Shell Vacation Club. We bought there too because they had access to RCI Points which appeared to have much more availability where I wanted to go.

I, too, met up with Timeshare Resales Hawaii. I met a guy named Larry there. He encouraged me to buy the Cliff's Club. I decided to cancel everything. When I got home, I ended up buying my first timeshare at Jerry Naugle in Australia to get into RCI Points.

Even then, I found that RCI points wasn't the most ideal for me.

Now, I know what is perfect me me and my family. It's Bluegreen. Everything I thought I was hearing from the sales guy at the EVR Kaanapali and the SVC Kona Coast Resort is actually true in the Bluegreen Vacation Club. That's why I decided to create a forum on it.
 

Mosca

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
1,463
Reaction score
8
Points
248
T_R_Oglodyte said:
No dicker won't work as long as auto dealers are prevented from selling directly to the public. An auto maker should be able to institute no dicker selling, post a price on the internet, and make that the price for the car, tax, title, shipping, regiistration not included. Buyers get that price whether they order on line or go to a dealer. But dealers have effectively prevented auto makers from doing direct sales.

I'll assume for clarity your first sentence meant "auto makers".

Auto makers have no interest in selling directly to consumers. They are even less well equipped to deal with customers on a local level than the dealers themselves are.

And Saturn dealers are no longer all the same price; it is now set up that at each dealer, the price has to be the same for all customers. But different dealers can compete. And on Saturns, the trade allowance is negotiable.

I could say a lot more, but it doesn't answer anything because all experiences are different. Suffice to say that as a corollary to TR's statement about airlines, when customers are faced with the choice of friendly salespeople in a relaxed atmosphere asking a fair price for their cars vs. high pressure and low prices with surcharges and high pressure aftersale tacked on after the fact, the high pressure guys usually sell a lot more cars and make a lot more money.

I spent some time in the big urban environment, and for the last 15 years I've been in a small market and now a rural dealership. My advice is to search out smaller, family run dealers and avoid the big names and splashy loud Sunday fliers. Some markets (New Jersey and Florida are examples) are almost hopelessly polluted, others (the Midwest notably) have a lot more choices. The closer you get to people who live in the same community that they work and sell in, the more likely you are to find a good place to buy a car. It might not be the best price, but you also might find the experience eye-opening. If you decide you like Home Depot, don't complain when Gabe's Hardware closes their doors.


Tom
 

mtngal

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
306
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
Frazier Park, CA
I don't mind paying dealerships something for their time - I happen to like to test-drive vehicles when I'm mildly interested in them, or when I really like them but don't have the money to buy just then (keeps me from making stupid mistakes, like buying a car that a month later I hate). So I'm not at all unwilling to pay more than they do, so they can stay in business and allow me to test drive for free when I'm not buying. I don't think that's a rip-off at all, and I don't try to get the bottom price - just a fair price.

Which brings up another point - I got a pretty reasonable deal on a vehicle (money-wise, bought after a quick 3 minute test drive) but a month later, discovered the seats were very uncomfortable for longer drives. To me, that vehicle was certainly NOT worth the money I paid for it, and I resented it for all of the 4 years I owned it (couldn't afford to sell it before that - if I could have, I would have and happily eaten the thousands I would have lost on it. As it was, I got my money's worth out of it, though not happily).

I'd rather get a vehicle I love and will happily keep for a long time. That normally involves lots of test drives and looking (without test driving) many different vehicles. Having the ability to drive down the street a ways to look at them, touch them and drive them is definitely a service I'm willing to pay for.

The article from edmunds is interesting (I read it several years ago when it was first published) - in fact their whole site is excellent for car research, and their town hall (forums) are always interesting.
 

ricoba

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
6,272
Reaction score
2
Points
323
Location
Metro Los Angeles
mtngal said:
Which brings up another point - I got a pretty reasonable deal on a vehicle (money-wise, bought after a quick 3 minute test drive) but a month later, discovered the seats were very uncomfortable for longer drives. To me, that vehicle was certainly NOT worth the money I paid for it, and I resented it for all of the 4 years I owned it (couldn't afford to sell it before that - if I could have, I would have and happily eaten the thousands I would have lost on it. As it was, I got my money's worth out of it, though not happily).

Amen! This is the case with our 2002 Chevy Trailblazer. Anymore I prefer driving our old worn out, but soft as a cloud 1990 Oldsmobile 98 over the Chevy, because of the seats...I guess I know what part of the vehicle Chevy meant with their "Like a Rock" campaign :D
 

Mosca

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
1,463
Reaction score
8
Points
248
ricoba said:
Amen! This is the case with our 2002 Chevy Trailblazer. Anymore I prefer driving our old worn out, but soft as a cloud 1990 Oldsmobile 98 over the Chevy, because of the seats...I guess I know what part of the vehicle Chevy meant with their "Like a Rock" campaign :D

LOL, I love the Trailblazer seats. My neighbor hated them. My dad loves them, he has over 120,000 miles on his.

ALWAYS take a test drive before buying, as long a drive as the dealer will let you.


Tom
 

T_R_Oglodyte

TUG Lifetime Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
16,117
Reaction score
8,064
Points
1,048
Location
Belly-View, WA
Mosca said:
LOL, I love the Trailblazer seats. My neighbor hated them. My dad loves them, he has over 120,000 miles on his.

ALWAYS take a test drive before buying, as long a drive as the dealer will let you.


Tom
If the car that you are interested in is in rental fleets, another option is to rent the car that you are interested in for a weekend. That way you can get some extended time with the vehicle, and get a sense for what it is like after it has seen a bit of use.
 
Top