Club Wyndham Suspension

[DrGavin]

But that still does not actually say anything. Unless they define commercial purposes, somewhere, it is an unenforceable restriction. (yes, I am a lawyer) Wyndham is banking on the fact that no one has the resources to fight them on this, and so far, they are correct. It is unlikely that anyone will expend the resources necessary to seriously challenge them. Even if someone did, and won, then they would simply publish a definition that would disqualify that person. It's like trying to build a wall out of sand.

As another lawyer, it would also seem problematic for Wyndham to restrict what owners can do with deeded property (as opposed to the trust structure of Club Wyndham Access). One could argue that such restrictions are "unreasonable restraints on alienation."

Worse yet, I am a former contracts professor, so the "contracts of adhesion" and "ambiguities construed against the drafter" nuggets that I there out at my students for years keep ringing in my head.

I absolutely don't want to pick a fight with Wyndham, but I do want to protect my elderly mother's financial situation while she continues on the long road to recover as much of her traveling life as she can. @JeepGirl's experience is exactly what I am trying to avoid.

 

[DrGavin]

I am new here and found this site via a fellow timeshare owner who recommended it to me.

Our family has been Founder VIP Owners with Club Wyndham for over 25 years. During COVID lockdowns my mother was diagnosed with aggressive dementia, which required around the clock care for over 2+ years until her death recently. We were unable to travel and spent the majority of our time caring for my mom. Since we couldn’t travel we used our complimentary guest pass (we are afforded 45 passes per year) to let friends and members of our church to use the resorts. They helped to mitigate our maintenance fees and were able to enjoy Wyndham resorts since we were unable to leave my mom.

Earlier this year, Wyndham notified us they were suspending our ownership for “commercial use” because we used too many guest passes and had not used our reservations for personal use. Our account was suspended for 90 days, BUT during that period they continued to collect maintenance fees to the tune of thousands of dollars. Basically, we were charged for something we weren't allowed to use. Over the last 25+ years we have traveled to well over 20 Wyndham resorts and used our guest passes for friends to accompany us. When we contacted them to explain our situation, they said there is nothing they can do and we were designated a "commercial user"? When I asked for documentation to better explain this policy, I was told there is no objective language what determines what a "commercial user" is and based on our usage the last 2 years they determined our account to be a commercial user (regardless of our situation). I asked to appeal the decision, but was told there is no appeal process. As Founder VIP owners with well over 7 figures of points, I can not believe there is no way around this. This whole experience has really changed my opinion of Wyndham.

Has anyone had any experience with this? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

I both sympathize and empathize with your situation, as my elderly mother is fighting back from a major health crisis and cannot use her points at the moment. Did your situation with Wyndham ever get resolved?

 

[CO skier]

As another lawyer, it would also seem problematic for Wyndham to restrict what owners can do with deeded property (as opposed to the trust structure of Club Wyndham Access). One could argue that such restrictions are "unreasonable restraints on alienation."

Much of the Club Wyndham "deeded property" is Undivided Interest points subject to the Fairshare Trust Agreement, where Wyndham makes the rules. It has been pointed out many, many times that fixed week "deeded property" converted to Club Wyndham points are subject to the Fairshare Trust Agreement ... so there is nothing "problematic" there. It is nothing different than Club Wyndham Access, which is subject to the Fairshare Trust Agreement.

Worse yet, I am a former contracts professor, so the "contracts of adhesion" and "ambiguities construed against the drafter" nuggets that I there out at my students for years keep ringing in my head.

Various strategies have been tried (literally) and struck down by courts over 20 years. Good luck with that idea.

 

[1Melanie]

if you can’t use all points in a year, put up to 65% into Wyndham Rewards. If before the use year, you’ll get 480 Rewards points for 1000 time share points. Otherwise it’s 400 points. It’s not the best use of points but you would still have lots left over to take or share a few nice vacations, especially if you take advantage of your 60% discounts. Rewards points can be used for all kinds of stuff like tours, theme parks, gift cards, travel as well as the usual hotel nights. We’ve done it when we had different types of travel plans and weren’t going to be able use all the points in any given year. It would put one more tool into your traveling pocket. Or you could give some points to the vacations for military families program. We still rent out a few weeks a year and have never had any problems but keep it to a minimum because of the crackdown. Kids on our accounts have used it more than we have in the past two years.
So sorry for the loss of your mother. Having lost mine a short time ago, I feel for you.

 

[Silverdollar]

Wyndham doesn't owe owners any such real definition, as has been debated ad nausem on this forum many times. In point of fact, until and unless Wyndham is forcibly required to do so, meaning a lawsuit requires such action to be taken, Wyndham will never provide a clear definition, as that would allow any/all owners attempting to rent for profit a direct method to "fly under the radar" so to speak, which is precisely why Wyndham will never do so. The rules are intentionally vague by design. Undoubtedly there are methods used, and those methods will never be published. Lastly, there have been threads in the past that provided the contractual verbiages in scope. In the final analysis, every contract in force also refers to the Member Directory as a rules base - meaning that when you sign any Wyndham contract - it clearly refers to the Member Directory - as well as many other founding trust documents - for legal reference. This also applies to resale contract owners - that's why it's in the Member Directory - with supporting verbiage in the actual founding trust documents. In the current Member Directory - to which every current owner is legally bound to - on page 340 under Program Disclosures section:

View attachment 80521

As many owners know, Wyndham Sales Representatives have regularly stated in presentations that owners could rent out their timeshare(s) to offset maintenance fees without having to go through Extra Holidays (EH). In the past two years, I have been told by four different Sales Reps; three of the four were Sales Managers, that it was acceptable to rent without going through EH.

Earlier this year, I wrote Wyndham Corporate to ask for clarity on the issue of an owner renting their timeshare to help offset maintenance costs. I received the following answer in writing from an Owner Resolutions & Strategy Executive Case Specialist:

“The only rental option we permit owners to utilize when it comes to rental is the option provided through Extra Holidays directly. Within the terms and conditions associated with any Club Wyndham contract- it discloses that purchases are to be for personal use and not rental by owner for a profit. If an owner is caught renting outside of Extra Holidays, their account can be flagged for commercial use.”

One thing is clear; Sales is saying one thing and Corporate is saying something totally different.

 

[CYRUS2400]

As many owners know, Wyndham Sales Representatives have regularly stated in presentations that owners could rent out their timeshare(s) to offset maintenance fees without having to go through Extra Holidays (EH). In the past two years, I have been told by four different Sales Reps; three of the four were Sales Managers, that it was acceptable to rent without going through EH.

Earlier this year, I wrote Wyndham Corporate to ask for clarity on the issue of an owner renting their timeshare to help offset maintenance costs. I received the following answer in writing from an Owner Resolutions & Strategy Executive Case Specialist:

“The only rental option we permit owners to utilize when it comes to rental is the option provided through Extra Holidays directly. Within the terms and conditions associated with any Club Wyndham contract- it discloses that purchases are to be for personal use and not rental by owner for a profit. If an owner is caught renting outside of Extra Holidays, their account can be flagged for commercial use.”

One thing is clear; Sales is saying one thing and Corporate is saying something totally different.

In part of the statement, they say that if 'an owner is caught caught renting....the account can be flagged'. Yet, in the T&C's, they say, you can not do a 'rental by owner for a profit'. Some inconsistencies there. I'd think that the T&C's should hold, an owner just can't rent for a profit. And, THAT, could be hard for Wyndham to prove.

It would be nice if they would have just answered the question you asked, without any contradictions. THANKS for sharing!!!!

 

[paxsarah]

One thing is clear; Sales is saying one thing and Corporate is saying something totally different.

This has pretty much always been true about everything, not just renting. I'm not excusing the salespeople for lying, but we shouldn't be surprised that the verbal promises of salespeople in this instance are inconsistent with the written policies or the facts. One of the first things I learned when I first joined the Wyndham forum at atozed and here on TUG is what it means when a salesperson's lips are moving.

 

[Eggrollcreative]

what’s a little nutty to me is if you book those reservations and you have the points it shouldn’t matter if it’s you or a friend or family member. You are using the points you paid for. So folks want people who can’t use their points to not use them so they will have more availability…reality is even if they don’t rent them they will likely use them and should use them and there goes your availability…the problem is the overselling of points although I get that the desirable times are gone and the expert renter types somehow know how to get them. But I’ve long since given up going to the hotspots at high season. After staying up until midnight a few times to try and get a unit in Hawaii (Worldmark), rather spend fewer points on less desirable times. Shame on Wyndham anyway you look at it! Don’t blame the victims who bought that crap with false promises of availability and option to send a guest who may or may not reciprocate in some way for the favor. Also, who rents these out? https://www.wyndhambonnetcreek.com/rooms
Most assuredly some of the inventory gets used by marketing and maybe like HGVC they rent the rooms direct themselves. As they say, “Rules for thee but not for me.”

 

[TravelJoy]

This is the cruelest application of a rule I’ve ever heard. If I had the energy, I would let them know via writing, and any other form of contact you have, that you will be placing an ad or letter reporting their actions in every time share outlet that exists in writing and online.

I have seen this work when the cruise company my brother was booked on refused to cancel and reimburse as the Carr fire approached their house. They were supposed to cruise while waiting to hear whether it had burned. Threats of media exposure changed their decision. Granted this would be time & energy consuming but you could choose not to go through with it.

Oh people have been known to go much further then that for far less a loss. The way the political arena works you can write your state senator/representative etc…it just needs to reach a conscious to easily reverse this decision. As with prior posts just send out a flurry of emails to BBB, AG, etc…also often overlooked and unknown:

Home

Elliott Report (Elliott.org) is a consumer news site dedicated to resolving problems between businesses and their customers.

www.elliott.org

 

[Mongoose]

if you can’t use all points in a year, put up to 65% into Wyndham Rewards. If before the use year, you’ll get 480 Rewards points for 1000 time share points. Otherwise it’s 400 points. It’s not the best use of points but you would still have lots left over to take or share a few nice vacations, especially if you take advantage of your 60% discounts. Rewards points can be used for all kinds of stuff like tours, theme parks, gift cards, travel as well as the usual hotel nights. We’ve done it when we had different types of travel plans and weren’t going to be able use all the points in any given year. It would put one more tool into your traveling pocket. Or you could give some points to the vacations for military families program. We still rent out a few weeks a year and have never had any problems but keep it to a minimum because of the crackdown. Kids on our accounts have used it more than we have in the past two years.
So sorry for the loss of your mother. Having lost mine a short time ago, I feel for you.

And hav a great stay at the Days Inn

 

[Mongoose]

what’s a little nutty to me is if you book those reservations and you have the points it shouldn’t matter if it’s you or a friend or family member. You are using the points you paid for. So folks want people who can’t use their points to not use them so they will have more availability…reality is even if they don’t rent them they will likely use them and should use them and there goes your availability…the problem is the overselling of points although I get that the desirable times are gone and the expert renter types somehow know how to get them. But I’ve long since given up going to the hotspots at high season. After staying up until midnight a few times to try and get a unit in Hawaii (Worldmark), rather spend fewer points on less desirable times. Shame on Wyndham anyway you look at it! Don’t blame the victims who bought that crap with false promises of availability and option to send a guest who may or may not reciprocate in some way for the favor. Also, who rents these out? https://www.wyndhambonnetcreek.com/rooms
Most assuredly some of the inventory gets used by marketing and maybe like HGVC they rent the rooms direct themselves. As they say, “Rules for the but not for me.”

I agree. They got caught up in the mega renters protocols. You should be able to a point, but some mega renters where out of control with commercializing the product to the detriment of the typical owner.

 

[bnoble]

it would also seem problematic for Wyndham to restrict what owners can do with deeded property

Tell that to my HOA that won't let me install a fence.

Less cheekily: It is entirely ordinary to have restrictions placed on property you own.

 

[sponger76]

It is entirely ordinary to have restrictions placed on property you own.

I was thinking the same thing. HOAs and local/county/state/federal governments place restrictions all the time. What universe is he living in?

 

[SteveinHNL]

I am new here and found this site via a fellow timeshare owner who recommended it to me.

Our family has been Founder VIP Owners with Club Wyndham for over 25 years. During COVID lockdowns my mother was diagnosed with aggressive dementia, which required around the clock care for over 2+ years until her death recently. We were unable to travel and spent the majority of our time caring for my mom. Since we couldn’t travel we used our complimentary guest pass (we are afforded 45 passes per year) to let friends and members of our church to use the resorts. They helped to mitigate our maintenance fees and were able to enjoy Wyndham resorts since we were unable to leave my mom.

Earlier this year, Wyndham notified us they were suspending our ownership for “commercial use” because we used too many guest passes and had not used our reservations for personal use. Our account was suspended for 90 days, BUT during that period they continued to collect maintenance fees to the tune of thousands of dollars. Basically, we were charged for something we weren't allowed to use. Over the last 25+ years we have traveled to well over 20 Wyndham resorts and used our guest passes for friends to accompany us. When we contacted them to explain our situation, they said there is nothing they can do and we were designated a "commercial user"? When I asked for documentation to better explain this policy, I was told there is no objective language what determines what a "commercial user" is and based on our usage the last 2 years they determined our account to be a commercial user (regardless of our situation). I asked to appeal the decision, but was told there is no appeal process. As Founder VIP owners with well over 7 figures of points, I can not believe there is no way around this. This whole experience has really changed my opinion of Wyndham.

Has anyone had any experience with this? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Personally, I would sue their bottoms. But I'm a lawyer, so it wouldn't be a cost to me.

 

[dioxide45]

Does the contract/agreement with Wyndham have an arbitration clause?

 

[RENTER]

Tell that to my HOA that won't let me install a fence.

Less cheekily: It is entirely ordinary to have restrictions placed on property you own.

You are correct when it comes to a HOA and they have the rules clearly stated in the HOA agreement. With Wyndham the rules are vague and conflicting. However HOA's do lose when they tell a homeowner that they cannot rent out their property for short term rentals. The HOA'S claim that the homeowner is in violation of the no commercial business rules they have. The courts have constituently ruled against the HOA because they do not consider rental of a HOA property a commercial business. Some states have passed laws allowing short term rentals of a HOA property.

 

[tschwa2]

Not only are you part of an HOA with Wyndham, you are a member of their club and I think it is the club rules not the HOA that prevents the commercial renting. If you own a deeded week that isn't part of Club Wyndham, you don't pay for guest certs and they don't seem to have restrictions about seasons and number of rentals allowed.

 

[dioxide45]

You are correct when it comes to a HOA and they have the rules clearly stated in the HOA agreement. With Wyndham the rules are vague and conflicting. However HOA's do lose when they tell a homeowner that they cannot rent out their property for short term rentals. The HOA'S claim that the homeowner is in violation of the no commercial business rules they have. The courts have constituently ruled against the HOA because they do not consider rental of a HOA property a commercial business. Some states have passed laws allowing short term rentals of a HOA property.

But the Club Wyndham Plus program isn't an HOA. It is really a membership based exchange company.

 

[CO skier]

However HOA's do lose when they tell a homeowner that they cannot rent out their property for short term rentals.

The Colorado Supreme Court has held that an association may not have HOA short term rental restrictions in Colorado unless the declaration expressly permits [rental restrictions].

 

[CO skier]

Here is the section of the Fairshare Trust Agreement where the property use rights are subject to the Terms and Conditions of the Club Wyndham membership program:

"WHEREAS, Persons that (i) subject one or more Property Interest(s) to this Trust Agreement by an assignment to the Trust of the Use Rights attributable to such Property Interest(s), or (ii) purchase one or more Property Interests which have previously been subjected to this Trust Agreement, shall be allocated Points symbolic of the Use Rights and other attributes of their respective Property Interest(s) and shall be permitted to use their symbolic Points as described herein;
...

NOW, THEREFORE, Wyndham and the Trustee hereby enter into this Trust Agreement and each Member and/or third party shall be deemed to have accepted and agreed to be bound by this Trust Agreement at the time their respective Property Interests or the Use Rights therein are subjected to the terms and conditions of this Trust Agreement by an assignment of Use Rights, or upon execution of a contract for the purchase of a Property Interest which has been previously subjected to this Trust Agreement or upon execution of such other documents as may be acceptable to the Trustee."

 

[chapjim]

Personally, I would sue their bottoms. But I'm a lawyer, so it wouldn't be a cost to me.

Good thing it would be free because you would lose, as have many others before.

You would get your money's worth.

 

[DrGavin]

Tell that to my HOA that won't let me install a fence.

Less cheekily: It is entirely ordinary to have restrictions placed on property you own.

I wasn't thinking in terms of making modifications to the property but merely in terms of restraints on alienability. As I understand it, many HOAs are trying to prohibit short-term rentals but are not having much success in the courts.

My challenge is caring for an ailing elderly mother who will hopefully get better within a year and resume traveling. In the meantime, she has a ton of points (Founders level) that I have to figure out how best to make use of to offset the maintenance costs.

 

[CO skier]

I wasn't thinking in terms of making modifications to the property but merely in terms of restraints on alienability.

I am not an attorney, but even this layman can see the difference between "alienability" -- the conveyance of propery -- and use rights restrictions when joining a timehare exchange program

by an assignment to the Trust of the Use Rights attributable to such Property Interest(s)

 

[bnoble]

You could be right. The problem is that Wyndham has first mover advantage and can unilaterally decide you are violating the rules. They can (and in the past have been willing to) make it expensive and time consuming if you decide to challenge them in the courts.

Worse, I’m not sure you’re right. This isn’t the same as an HOA. The converted week contract specifically grants usage rights of the owned week to the CWP trust in exchange for participation in the points program. I don’t own UDI but would be shocked if that agreement doesn’t have similar language. CWA isnt even owned property.

I sympathize with your problem. But Wyndham’s answer if you tell them your problem is “Use Extra Holidays”. If you try a different solution, you run the risk of running afoul of whatever mechanisms they have of determining if you are using your account “commercially.” That you want that not to be true doesn’t make it so.