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Changes coming to VIP

rrlongwell

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What does "targeting people" mean? Is it forcing them to lose their reservation if they cancel with intention of rebooking? Does this mean regular VIP's won't be able to ever do that again with much hope of getting their discount?

The way it is used here, it means they will try and disrupt the rebooking effort on people they consider to be "mega-renters". The person telling me this indicated they knew who the mega renters are. Remember, he did indicate that the Gold and Platium people were not to be included in that portion of the project. My guess is that this portion is just to try and limit the activity of potiential competitors to their rental businesses and not necessary scare off potiential upgrade customers to the VIP program.

Just as an interesting sideline, apparently more and more of the Wyndham Vacation Plus Resorts are entering into agreements where Wyndham takes back all their units that come back to them. Wyndham apparently does not get pick and choose rights at the resorts insistance. They then sell them for the Club Wyndham Access program. If this is true, then I would think that the available pool of UDI and fixed/floating weeks that are available for re-sale will start to dry up, thereby, strengthing the re-sale value of the remaining and maybe even improve the ARP availablity at resorts were ARP is needed for non-Club Wyndham Access members (my guess is that the better timeshare intervals do not end up in the Resorts hands very often). This may be why at least one poster observed getting Club Wyndham Access ARP is very difficult. On a selfish note, this would not be bad for me because of my Myrtle Beach holdings (aka as "Flight to Quality").
 
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ronparise

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And then that begs the question of what is considered a "mega renter".

Ive made 40 reservations and rented them so far this year (and Im out of points) I consider myself a hobby shop

Whats a mega renter depends I think on who you are talking to and where you are...I know a guy with 3 million points and probably makes 100 reservations a year. That seems "mega" to me but in his mind he's a hobby shop too. He sees the guy with 5 million as mega

I think the definition would hang on this question....Is renting timeshares your primary source of your income ? If I could make $100000 a year thats a business and you could refer to me as Mega Renter...I would think at least 10 million points

Why Wyndham wants to target these folks is a mystery, and may have to do with the fact they want this stuff for their own rental business. But I think that they are trying to be fair to all the owners. I think they get a lot of complaints that all the good reservations are gone in the ARP window...and never come available until the Platinum VIPs discount window (when they cancel some of them

Its not unusual for a big owner to make two reservations for the same time in the arp window then a year later, cancel, cancel, rebook and upgrade to get the larger unit at the discounted price for the small unit. Is that fair to the little guy? keeping a unit "off the shelf" for all that time. Is that fair? Maybe/maybe not, but I bet it generates a lot of complaints. And I think Wyndham would rather upset a few big owners to keep the masses happy

One way for Wyndham to solve this "problem" is to creat a waiting list like they have in our sister companies, Worldmark. and RCI And if this is what they do, it will end the business of renting our Wyndham reservations as we know it (or at least as the Platinum VIPs know it)

For the record, RRlongwell is I thing right. They have a new system in place and its being tested, The folks I talk to think it will be out by October (coincidental with the new VIP levels) Whether or not there will be a waiting list, I dont know,,,They wont tell me that
 

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The way it is used here, it means they will try and disrupt the rebooking effort on people they consider to be "mega-renters". The person telling me this indicated they knew who the mega renters are. Remember, he did indicate that the Gold and Platium people were not to be included in that portion of the project.
But doesn't a "mega renter" have to be at least Platinum to play the cancel rebook game? How can they both "target" them and "not include" them at the same time?

You are not a mega renter and yet you say they may target you just the same after you chose to put your deeds into an LLC. This sounds highly discriminatory and potentially grounds for legal action against Wyndham- if you could prove it. I hope you are documenting your communications.
 

rrlongwell

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But doesn't a "mega renter" have to be at least Platinum to play the cancel rebook game? How can they both "target" them and "not include" them at the same time?

You are not a mega renter and yet you say they may target you just the same after you chose to put your deeds into an LLC. This sounds highly discriminatory and potentially grounds for legal action against Wyndham- if you could prove it. I hope you are documenting your communications.

Some of the documents I believe are public record with the BBB of Central Flordia. Thanks for the concern, do not worry, my documents are in order. I am an owner of multiple timeshare locations with Wyndham and have no intention of suing them. I think they have a great product and a wild sales staff. I executed a restructuring of my mother's Platium account on the terms that I wanted and not theirs. That is why I believe a deeded ownership is much better than Club Wyndham Access, Wyndham does not have unlimited authority with the deeded timeshares. A number of sales locations push or did push the buy to rent through Wyndham program. So, it appears that if you support their rental program you are OK. Acutally, from Wyndham's point of view, that is a good practice, the owner takes the risk, pays the costs and Wyndham gets 30 to 40 percent Commission. Now that is a asset light stratagey.

My post did not say they targeted the Platium owners, in fact it indicted the person I was talking to indicted that Gold and Platium members were not included in that part of the program. It was the mega renters that were cancelling shortly beforet the 15 day window then re-booking at the discount. My guess this would primiarily impact the non-VIP Platium and Gold members becasue if they were smart, that is done well befor the 15 day cancellation period for a reservation.

We can think the Wyndham definition of Mega Renter is whatever we want, however, the defition is actually how Wyndham defines it. I have never seen a defition of it.

As for the question of does someone need to be Platium to use the book, cancel, rebook trick, absolutly not. Resale owners and owners at any level of VIP status can participate in this activity. I have not used it, but I believe Wyndham does have a "Resort Special" program for last minute reservations. I just checked the current availability, I am very impressed with the non-VIP benifits being offered under this program. I cannot help but note all of the Wyndham Resorts I own at are running significat specials. Check out the Myrtle Beach and Smokey Mountain locations as my examples. If I am being targeted, it is because of the Myrtle Beach and Smokey Mountain deeded timeshares I own and not the mega renter designation.

https://www.wyndhamvacationresorts.com/ffr/member/href.do?id=PROM-0000025
 
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rrlongwell

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... Whether or not there will be a waiting list, I dont know,,,They wont tell me that

I was told by Coroporate Wyndham that a waiting list was part of the Voyager roll-out that is going into effect. Whether it survives that testing phase, I do not know. You are right, getting information out of Wyndham is like pulling teeth. Maybe we should pass the hat for contributions to hire a dentist to assist in getting the information.

Update: The following is the only internet discription of Voyager by Wyndham that I could locate:

WVO [Wyndham Vacation Ownership] has begun a multiyear initiative called Project Voyager, which is designed to improve our inventory and reservation systems. The goal is to get our owners on more booked vacations each and every year. Our owner satisfaction, which is extremely high, is tied to the frequency with which the user vacation ownership. And with higher satisfaction comes multiple benefits, such as higher upgrade sales, improved lead generation, increased on-time payments and most importantly, a better experience for our owners.

Please take note: The goal of Voyager is to get "our owners on more booked vacations". This goal is not inconsistant with other threads that are discussing problems that may be related to computer changes that appear to be happening. It is also very consistent with what appears to be growing emphise on the rental businesses (presumably and not the owner's customers).

http://seekingalpha.com/article/265...sses-q1-2011-results-earnings-call-transcript

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166182

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167001

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164292

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165756
 
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rrlongwell

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Waiting List

The following is taken from the 2011-2012 Members Directory, page 332:

"If a reservation request cannot be confirmed, the member can elect to be placed on a cancellation or wait list or can request an alternate reservation."

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/wyndham/memberdirectory11-12/#/342

Owner Care and the Members Directory are now talking of a wait list, Skyline Towers sales said one is not coming.

Just got of the phone with Andrew of Owner Care. This fall or this Winter is when the call center is expected expected to be able to participate in Waitlist program. It was projected for this Summer but is on hold until a May computer upgrade. He indicated that apparently the current computer may not be able to handle the program. The current version of the wait list is being used by the resorts for when Wyndham makes a reservation for a person, they show up at the resort, and there is unexpected unavailablity of their room due to weather issues, overbooking by Wyndham, etc.

My guess is that this explains what a couple of other threads have raised were a fixed week owner could not get their room. The resort needs to put the Wyndham Customer somewhere. It appears in this case, the owner losses since the Wyndham Management Company controls access to those rooms.

It appears the wait list program is up and running in a limited form primarly being used, at this point, to cover reservations made by Wyndham were the room(s) are not available.

I attempted to use this provision and was not permitted to. The above was the explaination. It does appear the Mega Renters and fixed week owners, and floating week owners may be going to have increasing problems under this system.

This almost has to be the "capture" program made reference to in another thread.

For Ron: For the answer to your quest for a listing of ARP availability at specific resorts under the Club Wyndham Acess program, Andrew indicated it is the resorts that identify the room availability for Wyndham. Presumably, this would also include room availability for the ARP program. That would be one of the reasons that the answer may be a moving number.

A thought just occurred to me on how the wait list could turn out to be a major VIP Platium Benifit under some circumstances. If a Platium Member can travel under short notice, just put your name on the wait list at the 60 day out point and pick up one of the cancelations. Same holds true for the multi-million holder of points that are Platium Members, they just join as many wait lists as their points can support.
 
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pacodemountainside

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RR:


Need to clarify major misconception!



Wyndham Management Company has nothing to do with reservations. Once Wyndham has sold you a UDI contract, the underlying deed is converted to symbolic points and all reservations are handled by by VOI Trust which all owners pay a fee to provide common services and pay RCI membership. Yes, VOI Trust is "run" by three Wyndham executives but they do not get involved in daily reservations.



This also documents why sales person claiming to be your personal rep and can get you hot reservations is lying. They have no access to inventory. Likewise, when they say MF are going at some resort or resort specific claim they are lying unless spouse or drinking buddy works there and leaks confidential information.


Wyndham's

only interest is, if you financied collecting monthly loan payment. Otherwise, deeded rights are at Resort where HOA runs the railroad. Also, Wyndham does control Developer inventory and can use as it sees fit, i.e. giving 154K buyer bonus 154K points to get up to VIP temporarily.



As far as fixed weeks and floating fixed weeks nothing to do with VOI inventory. Fixed week owner shows up at designated time and place and hops in room. Floating fixed week like my AVP calls totally different reservation system. No ARP, HK credits, transaction fees, etc. If I pay MF can book at least 18 months out.



At a given resort there may be several inventory buckets such as, ARP, CWA, RCI, Developer, Fixed week, floating fixed week, WorldMart,etc. Each has restricted access.



Rotating Priority List(RPL) is an option.



Yes, I have never had a problem when trying to make CWA reservation and getting NA having VC say none in ARP either or lots in ARP bucket go for 10 month mark!
 

rrlongwell

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... Need to clarify major misconception! Wyndham Management Company has nothing to do with reservations ...
Fact Check:

I am not saying you are wrong. Wyndham advised me that a major feature of the multi-year roll-out of the Voyager program is to link the resort systems up with the Central Wyndham Reservations System. True not True? take your pick. Also, for your information, I believe that the Management Company for the Fairshare Plus Trust (VOA) is Wyndham.

On your major point, I will defer to the below listed link. Please note paragraph 2 where the Wyndham Worldwide press release describes the Wyndham Management Company (Wyndham Vacation Ownership). It specifically lists reservations as on of its functions.

http://www.wyndhamworldwide.com/media/press-releases/press-release?wwprdid=1048
 
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pacodemountainside

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RR

Speculating on what Wyndham might roll out in the future is like predicting weather or stock market tomorrow. What a Wyndham employee verbalizes today
and $5.00 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks or a Big Mac and fries..

When Wyndham Forums web site comes back up I can read VOI Trust documents dated 1991 as ammended. Offhand, I was not aware Trust had a Management Company. I thought they were free standing operation that hired experts like lawyers and accountants as required. Indeed Wyndham does act as manager for resorts under long term sweetheart contracts signed when they were the Board. Wyndham also handles deeding for resorts for unconscionable fee of $299 for resales.

Wyndham is also pushing its WAAM program getting away from brick and motar. Desert Blue is mothballed and only opened a couple new resorts during last couple years.

I think press release is referring to EH subsidary which specializes in reservations/rentals!



Paco
 

rrlongwell

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... When Wyndham Forums web site comes back up I can read VOI Trust documents dated 1991 as ammended. Offhand, I was not aware Trust had a Management Company. I thought they were free standing operation that hired experts like lawyers and accountants as required ...

I like you, tried to find the Plan documents on-line. I was unable to find any still up either.

Update: Just found the following link, check out paragraph number 3. This is a real old document. Read the developer names as the for profit Wyndham as successors.

http://webspace.webring.com/people/wi/iowahawkgeo/04.html

The following is an extract from the above link. Read FairShare Plus Program Fee as the program fee that is now being charged.

FairShare Plus Program Fee


The Program Fee is used to pay the following operating and administrative expenses:

Reservations and customer service personnel

Telephone and computer systems

Member directories and updates

Annual audits

Membership in an international exchange company

Other related expenses
 
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vacationhopeful

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Oh, please --- do you boys think for one second that the TRUST is anything more than a big spreadsheet of points (and unbalanced one at that)? Trust with lawyers? Auditors? Independant actions from corporate Wyndham? This is a company of sales swinging dudes, who play by their own rules.

Why do you think things are getting messed up with stealing fixed weeks? EH is renting out whatever they think is empty - no matter who owns it. The computer geeks are writing code - not for a waitlist, but to feed cancelled inventory (preceived empty inventory to the EH) - the rental arm of the company.

JMHO,

PS: Voyager is a Star Trek TV series.
 
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pacodemountainside

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Linda:

What planet are you on?

If you would like a copy of CPA audited VOI Financials just send their controller in Vegas an e-mail russel.cook@wyndhamvo.com

Incidentally these are presented at anual meeting in May in Orlando.

Trust agreement specifically states at 60 days EH can take 90% of VOI inventory for reasonabale fee which in practice is zippo. At 30 days 100%.

They don't have steal any thing.

"Fairfield may reserve, up to a maximum of sixty (60) days in advance of the first day of occupancy, the right to use unreserved units for its own purposes including renting to the public, provided it pays the occupancy related expenses for the use of such unit. As a result of Fairfield's use, there will be less space available for Members' use, however Fairfield may not reserve the last 10% of available occupancy for a unit until thirty (30) days prior to the first day of intended use."



Paco
 
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rrlongwell

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Linda:

What planet are you on?

If you would like a copy of CPA audited VOI Financials just send their controller in Vegas an e-mail russel.cook@wyndhamvo.com

Incidentally these are presented at anual meeting in May in Orlando.

Trust agreement specifically states at 60 days EH can take 90% of VOI inventory for reasonabale fee which in practice is zippo. At 30 days 100%.

They don't have steal any thing.

Paco

What you are referring to is Wyndham's rights for timeshare use under the Trust's control and not the fixed weeks. It is my understanding that if the provisions you cite are used then the for profit Wyndham needs to make payments for costs incured to the VOA(s). What Linda is talking about is the for profit Wyndham Arm just using fixed week ownership intervals without any payments.

P.S. I did not research it, but, I wonder if their former Auditors were Arther Anderson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Andersen
 
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jjmanthei05

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... it means they will try and disrupt the rebooking effort on people they consider to be "mega-renters". The person telling me this indicated they knew who the mega renters are. Remember, he did indicate that the Gold and Platium people were not to be included in that portion of the project...

This doesn't make sense to me. I would guess every mega renter is a gold or more realistically a platinum owner. Also I would have to say looking at it from a numbers perspective that a mega renter would be someone who rents out 50 - 60 reservations a year. I can't see how it would be less than that since the maximum free guest certs they give out is 30 and how can they complain if they are giving you that many. The easiest way to limit mega renters is to limit the number of guest certs per year an account can use. If you limit it to 30 or 40, that would put an end to "mega renters" right there...

Jason
 

am1

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This doesn't make sense to me. I would guess every mega renter is a gold or more realistically a platinum owner. Also I would have to say looking at it from a numbers perspective that a mega renter would be someone who rents out 50 - 60 reservations a year. I can't see how it would be less than that since the maximum free guest certs they give out is 30 and how can they complain if they are giving you that many. The easiest way to limit mega renters is to limit the number of guest certs per year an account can use. If you limit it to 30 or 40, that would put an end to "mega renters" right there...

Jason

Wyndham would loose a lot of money by limiting the number of guest fees that can be issued. Also sales would lose a lot of people that go through their sales tour.
 

jjmanthei05

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Wyndham would loose a lot of money by limiting the number of guest fees that can be issued. Also sales would lose a lot of people that go through their sales tour.

if you set it to 40, 50 or even 60 guest certs, that would effect less than .01% of all owners and not cut into Wyndham's bottom line to much. Also no one or should I say very very very rarely is someone coming through a sales presentation and wanting to purchase 5 million + points and get turned off by only 50 guest certs per year. If Wyndham wanted to limit "mega renters" which would be a PR move to appease the rest of the owners this would be the easiest way to do it and not mess with "10 min windows" or some magical program to limit mega renters based on some algorithm in their system. If they are concerned about the bottom line then they wont touch the mega renter at all.

Jason
 

SOS8260456

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The easiest way to limit mega renters is to limit the number of guest certs per year an account can use. If you limit it to 30 or 40, that would put an end to "mega renters" right there...

Jason

misread, therefore my comments were inappropriate.
 
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am1

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if you set it to 40, 50 or even 60 guest certs, that would effect less than .01% of all owners and not cut into Wyndham's bottom line to much. Also no one or should I say very very very rarely is someone coming through a sales presentation and wanting to purchase 5 million + points and get turned off by only 50 guest certs per year. If Wyndham wanted to limit "mega renters" which would be a PR move to appease the rest of the owners this would be the easiest way to do it and not mess with "10 min windows" or some magical program to limit mega renters based on some algorithm in their system. If they are concerned about the bottom line then they wont touch the mega renter at all.

Jason

It is about the number of guests that renters send to the resort not that a person on a sales presentation would be turned off by not being able to add more than 40-50 guests per year.

I do not think Wyndham can limit the number of guest certificates anyways. It is my property.
 

jjmanthei05

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It is about the number of guests that renters send to the resort not that a person on a sales presentation would be turned off by not being able to add more than 40-50 guests per year.

I do not think Wyndham can limit the number of guest certificates anyways. It is my property.

But with that same logic they wouldn't be able to do anything to mega renters because "it's their property and they can do with it how they please" but the owners manual states that "The program is for a Member's own personal use and enjoyment and not for any commercial purposes." By that logic they can limit how many other people you can give units\rent to. This comes back to the same argument that they shouldn't be able to block people from selling their points to other members to use but they can/did. When you play in their sandbox with their toys you have to play by their rules.

Jason
 

rrlongwell

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... "When you play in their sandbox with their toys you have to play by their rules ...

That is one way of looking at it. I have seen/heard of a number of lawsuits that challenged/are challinging Wyndham's ability to do this.

If I remember the owner's directory correctly, it mentioned, something to the effect that the on-line members directory might not be the most up to date verision of the rules.

Owner Listings for Wyndham for Extra Holidays, 800 446-1860,

1. Reserve 2 nights up to a week
2. Book reservation for Club Wyndham Access resorts (46 resorts are available for rental though Extra Hollidays to Club Wyndham Plus Members).
3. Recommend three or four nights
4. Sign contract
5. Fill out form
6. Send reservation
7. 40 percent commission
8. Cancelation can be made up to 17 days prior
9. Nothing on the web site on this program
 
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