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Change in MVC ownership tiers

logos5

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I just came back from a sales pitch and one of the things I was told was that starting Sept 1 the point requirements for the ownership tiers are changing.
  • Select will now start at 6000 and Chairman's club is going away
  • Price per point is also going to be jumping quite significantly as they roll in Hyatt and the other acquisitions
I was shown a memo as proof, anyone else hear about this? It factored into a purchase I made, I'm still in my rescind period and want to make sure I wasn't just fed a story.
 

vacationtime1

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If you bought on the fear that benefit levels would change and you would lose out, you should rescind.

But even if you didn't, developer purchases seldom make economic sense compared to the prices available on the secondary market -- because most developer purchases lose 65-99% of their value as soon as the rescission period is over.

How many points did you buy? What did you pay per point? How long do you have to rescind?
 

Norcal5

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Is Chairmans getting replaced by another level or just getting merged with Presidential?
 

CPNY

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I just came back from a sales pitch and one of the things I was told was that starting Sept 1 the point requirements for the ownership tiers are changing.
  • Select will now start at 6000 and Chairman's club is going away
  • Price per point is also going to be jumping quite significantly as they roll in Hyatt and the other acquisitions
I was shown a memo as proof, anyone else hear about this? It factored into a purchase I made, I'm still in my rescind period and want to make sure I wasn't just fed a story.
What did this memo say? I’m not going to go down this road again, but I was told the prices were going up 3 months ago

Someone else was shown a memo or document back in July I believe. In my limited life experience, I’ve learned that nothing is official until it is official and nothing is absolute except death.

If what you say is true which it could very well be, that would go against what others were saying about another level after CC was being added.
 

pchung6

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What did this memo say? I’m not going to go down this road again, but I was told the prices were going up 3 months ago

Someone else was shown a memo or document back in July I believe. In my limited life experience, I’ve learned that nothing is official until it is official and nothing is absolute except death.

If what you say is true which it could very well be, that would go against what others were saying about another level after CC was being added.
Here we go. Please not again. It is just sales tactic to scare you so you have to buy now.
 

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I've got 10 days to rescind. This isn't my first purchase (I have 2K currently) but I wasn't planning on purchasing more just yet either. I had the option of purchasing 1000 pts and freezing the select tier at 4000 points for me so once I bought another 1k later on I'd get Select despite the fact that Select will require 6000 points going forward.

I bought 2000 pts @ 12.8.

I don't remember the exact wording but it wasn't getting replaced by another level, just going away which probably means merged.

The other change that is coming is that the minimum number of points that can be purchased is going up to 1,500.
 

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Yep, you're right. Just started looking at resale options. Definitely much cheaper!

As for the memo, it did say June - Aug so it's probably what they have been showing people throughout the summer to pressure buyers in advance of changes in Sept.
 

vacationtime1

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My suggestion: rescind and rent points as needed.

No upfront cost and the price to rent is <5% more than the underlying MF's.
 

CPNY

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I've got 10 days to rescind. This isn't my first purchase (I have 2K currently) but I wasn't planning on purchasing more just yet either. I had the option of purchasing 1000 pts and freezing the select tier at 4000 points for me so once I bought another 1k later on I'd get Select despite the fact that Select will require 6000 points going forward.

I bought 2000 pts @ 12.8.

I don't remember the exact wording but it wasn't getting replaced by another level, just going away which probably means merged.

The other change that is coming is that the minimum number of points that can be purchased is going up to 1,500.
So the minimum points you can buy are going to be 1500 and level changes. Where in the memo did it state “as they roll in Hyatt and other acquisitions” as you mentioned in your OP? Did it say that or did the sales rep verbally add that? That would be helpful if they are having pricing changes or new levels or tweaks to existing sales strategy. That happens a lot. The bigger issue is the “overlay” or how they “roll in”. Was that on that document or was that added verbally? Of course I was told end of the year 4Q to expect new program so “buy in now” by the VSE sales rep. Just spoke to MVC rep who is much less pressure when dealing with central sales and there have been NO mention of any changes to structure or levels or price increases because of “roll ins” so take that for what’s it’s worth
 

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They recently got many people to try off with 4,000 for Select level... I'm not sure how true the memo is... and usually I will get them to put those terms they mentioned in writing...
 

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I would rescind and wait until the official announcement is made. I attended a similar presentation recently and even though there was no pressure, the sales rep was not comfortable providing something in writing. The only thing that anyone can confirm is that "Change is coming". And the only reason we know it is coming is because the CEO officially announced this.
 
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So the minimum points you can buy are going to be 1500 and level changes. Where in the memo did it state “as they roll in Hyatt and other acquisitions” as you mentioned in your OP? Did it say that or did the sales rep verbally add that? That would be helpful if they are having pricing changes or new levels or tweaks to existing sales strategy. That happens a lot. The bigger issue is the “overlay” or how they “roll in”. Was that on that document or was that added verbally? Of course I was told end of the year 4Q to expect new program so “buy in now” by the VSE sales rep. Just spoke to MVC rep who is much less pressure when dealing with central sales and there have been NO mention of any changes to structure or levels or price increases because of “roll ins” so take that for what’s it’s worth
Great points. The memo mentioned the change in levels and the 1500 minimum if I recall correctly. The rep verbally explained that this was happening because of Hyatt/Vistana/etc. He also mentioned that price per point was going up to the $20-24 range specifically because of Hyatt. He also mentioned that going forward that you wanted to be in the points vs weeks/destination programs and that the Hyatt/Sheraton/etc people needed to buy into the points program.

The feedback I'm getting from all of you is helping to make sense between fact and a story to get me to buy more points. Thanks!!
 

CPNY

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Great points. The memo mentioned the change in levels and the 1500 minimum if I recall correctly. The rep verbally explained that this was happening because of Hyatt/Vistana/etc. He also mentioned that price per point was going up to the $20-24 range specifically because of Hyatt. He also mentioned that going forward that you wanted to be in the points vs weeks/destination programs and that the Hyatt/Sheraton/etc people needed to buy into the points program.

The feedback I'm getting from all of you is helping to make sense between fact and a story to get me to buy more points. Thanks!!
Reports have been coming back that all others will have to buy into the DC system. Of course that could all be lies to get you to buy into the DC program now. I was told by the VSE rep to buy into Westin or Sheraton Flex now because the prices are going up. Flex would be eligible in any new program so buy now before prices go up. It’s all high pressure sales. Correct, you’ll need to have points to play. Some weeks owners have points associated with their weeks on both sides (weeks enrolled in DC and those weeks in the VSN). I’m not saying you made a bad purchase, however you made an ill informed purchase if you bought solely on sales reps word. You may be able to rescind and buy resale cheaper. Other who are more knowledgeable about the DC program will give you more guidance. Hey, maybe the document was legit and everything you were told is 100% accurate, I can’t say for certain it’s not.
 

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TXTortoise

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To bring it into the Marriott system, you need to add junk fees to it at $3 per point + some other fees. It will come up to more than $7 per point.
Unless I misunderstand @StevenTing ’s calculator, junk fees are included as the large enrollment cost on the right side.
 

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My own experience over many years of ownership is that anything you clearly remember from that sales pitch is likely a terrific exaggeration of anything really known or thought to be known. If it was real, it would be in your mailbox as real incentives to buy, and in all of our mailboxes. As it is, I'd rescind. I wish I knew years ago what I've learned here over the past five or so years.
 

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Destinations Points

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My own experience over many years of ownership is that anything you clearly remember from that sales pitch is likely a terrific exaggeration of anything really known or thought to be known. If it was real, it would be in your mailbox as real incentives to buy, and in all of our mailboxes. As it is, I'd rescind. I wish I knew years ago what I've learned here over the past five or so years.
These are some wise words! I did rescind.
 

LUVourMarriotts

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I had the option of purchasing 1000 pts and freezing the select tier at 4000 points for me so once I bought another 1k later on I'd get Select despite the fact that Select will require 6000 points going forward.
It sounds like you already rescinded (is that a word?), but I would also suggest that if the above were true, about the freezing, you would have signed a specific document that provided you that freeze. If you did not, it would not happen. This sounds like a poorly disguised lie, to me.
 

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I was reviewing the exchange procedures document again, only in part. It looks like status is not guaranteed when they change/raise the threshold for the different levels. I haven't reviewed the complete document, only this portion.

Page 11/12. VII MISCELLANEOUS. Section A. Member Recognition Levels.
Bolding is from the Document.

https://www.marriottvacationsworldwide.com/common/cms/mvc/pdfs/helpfulTools/enrolledOwner/legalDocs/20171031/nato/exchange_procedures_english.pdf

Page 12.

In the event the minimum number of Exchange Points required to maintain Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member eligibility is raised above the number of Exchange Points allocated to a Program Member’s Interests at any given time, the Program Member will be entitled to enjoy the benefits and privileges afforded to Select Members, Executive Members, Presidential Members or Chairman’s Club Members, as applicable, until the end of the calendar year following that in which the Program Member no longer meets the respective Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member eligibility requirements. If the Program Member purchases Interests with sufficient Exchange Points to reestablish Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member eligibility prior to the end of such calendar year, the Program Member shall maintain eligibility to be a Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member, as applicable. In the event that the minimum number of Exchange Points required to maintain Select Member, Executive Member, Presidential Member or Chairman’s Club Member eligibility is greater than the number of Exchange Points allocated to a Program Member’s Interests due to the transfer of any of Program Member’s Interests, Program Member’s eligibility to enjoy the benefits and privileges afforded to Select Members, Executive Members, Presidential Members or Chairman’s Club Members shall not be extended for any period and shall be terminated on the first day of the month following the applicable transfer of the Program Member’s Interests. Any Exchange Points assigned to an Interest that is owned by more than one Program Member shall be included in calculating the number of Exchange Points attributed to each Program Member owning such Interest when determining whether such Program Members are eligible to become Select Members, Executive Members, Presidential Members or Chairman’s Club Members. Select Members, Executive Members, Presidential Members or Chairman’s Club Members may be assessed additional fees or charges for certain benefits and privileges granted to Select Members, Executive Members, Presidential Members or Chairman’s Club Members, as applicable, and as determined by Exchange Company from time to time. Exchange Company reserves the right to deny Select, Executive, Presidential or Chairman’s Club status to any Program Member or group of Program Members which Exchange Company determines in Exchange Company’s sole discretion has structured its ownership in a manner to achieve such status by circumventing the intent of only recognizing Program Members or groups of Program Members who are joined by customarily recognized affinities.
 

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There's not an explicit "grandfather" clause but there is something close for Executive and Chairman's Club. When we went from 2 tiers to 5 tiers, the previous levels were preserved. If they change the tiers again, they will need to make an amendment to add in the exceptions to allow for the grandfathering of tiers.

Chairman's Club - Page 18

Chairman’s Club Member means a Program Member who has achieved a “Chairman’s Club” level of membership by meeting the qualifications for such level of membership as established by the Exchange Company from time to time. “Chairman’s Club Member” shall also include such Program Members who held at least 13,000 Exchange Points as of April 29, 2015; provided, however, that such Program Member shall only be entitled to retain the classification as a Chairman’s Club Member for so long as such Program Member holds not less than 13,000 Exchange Points; if such Program Member ever holds less than 13,000 Exchange Points, such Program Member’s level of membership shall thereafter be determined by the then current qualifications for levels of membership established by Exchange Company. For the purpose of determining Chairman’s Club Member status, Program Members shall be deemed to hold all Exchange Points related to Interests that are titled in their name, either independently or as a named titleholder among a group of titleholders, which are enrolled with Exchange Company if required to do so. In the event a Program Member transfers any of the Program Member’s Interests, only the Interests retained by the Program Member after the transfer shall be considered in determining the number of Exchange Points deemed held by the Program Member. Exchange Company shall have the reserved right to add, create or revise qualification criteria from time to time such as, for example, qualifying status based on the manner in which and from whom Exchange Points were acquired. Exchange Company shall have the right to determine who constitutes a Chairman’s Club Member based on criteria and conditions it determines from time to time, in its sole discretion, all of which shall remain subject to modification by Exchange Company from time to time in its sole discretion.
Presidential Member - Page 21
Presidential Member means a Program Member who has achieved a “Presidential” level of membership by meeting the qualifications for such level of membership as established by the Exchange Company from time to time. For the purpose of determining Presidential Member status, Program Members shall be deemed to hold all Exchange Points related to Interests that are titled in their name, either independently or as a named titleholder among a group of titleholders, which are enrolled with Exchange Company if required to do so. In the event a Program Member transfers any of the Program Member’s Interests, only the Interests retained by the Program Member after the transfer shall be considered in determining the number of Exchange Points deemed held by the Program Member. Exchange Company shall have the reserved right to add, create or revise qualification criteria from time to time such as, for example, qualifying status based on the manner in which and from whom Exchange Points were acquired. Exchange Company shall have the right to determine who constitutes a Presidential Member based on criteria and conditions it determines from time to time, in its sole discretion, all of which shall remain subject to modification by Exchange Company from time to time in its sole discretion.
Executive Member - Page 20
Executive Member means a Program Member who has achieved an “Executive” level of membership by meeting the qualifications for such level of membership as established by the Exchange Company from time to time. “Executive Member” shall also include such Program Members who held at least 6,500 Exchange Points, but not more than 9,999 Exchange Points, as of April 29, 2015; provided, however, that such Program Member shall only be entitled to retain the classification as an Executive Member for so long as such Program Member holds not less than 6,500 Exchange Points; if such Program Member ever holds less than 6,500 Exchange Points, such Program Member’s level of membership shall thereafter be determined by the then-current qualifications for levels of membership established by Exchange Company. For the purpose of determining Executive Member status, Program Members shall be deemed to hold all Exchange Points related to Interests that are titled in their name, either independently or as a named titleholder among a group of titleholders, which are enrolled with Exchange Company if required to do so. In the event a Program Member transfers any of the Program Member’s Interests, only the Interests retained by the Program Member after the transfer shall be considered in determining the number of Exchange Points deemed held by the Program Member. Exchange Company shall have the reserved right to add, create or revise qualification criteria from time to time such as, for example, qualifying status based on the manner in which and from whom Exchange Points were acquired. Exchange Company shall have the right to determine who constitutes an Executive Member based on criteria and conditions it determines from time to time, in its sole discretion, all of which shall remain subject to modification by Exchange Company from time to time in its sole discretion.
Select Member - Page 23
Select Member means a Program Member who has achieved a “Select” level of membership by meeting the qualifications for such level of membership as established by the Exchange Company from time to time. For the purpose of determining Select Member status, Program Members shall be deemed to hold all Exchange Points related to Interests that are titled in their name, either independently or as a named titleholder among a group of titleholders, which are enrolled with Exchange Company if required to do so. In the event a Program Member transfers any of the Program Member’s Interests, only the Interests retained by the Program Member after the transfer shall be considered in determining the number of Exchange Points deemed held by the Program Member. Exchange Company shall have the reserved right to add, create or revise qualification criteria from time to time such as, for example, qualifying status based on the manner in which and from whom Exchange Points were acquired. Exchange Company shall have the right to determine who constitutes a Select Member based on criteria and conditions it determines from time to time, in its sole discretion, all of which shall remain subject to modification by Exchange Company from time to time in its sole discretion.
 

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We talked about this when they adjusted the status tiers the first/only time, how the grandfathering that they allowed was in direct contrast to what was written in the original governing docs. It'll be interesting to see if they follow the grandfathering precedent that they set if/when they do another adjustment.
 

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I just came back from a sales pitch and one of the things I was told was that starting Sept 1 the point requirements for the ownership tiers are changing.
  • Select will now start at 6000 and Chairman's club is going away
  • Price per point is also going to be jumping quite significantly as they roll in Hyatt and the other acquisitions
I was shown a memo as proof, anyone else hear about this? It factored into a purchase I made, I'm still in my rescind period and want to make sure I wasn't just fed a story.
In 4 days we will know for sure that the salesperson was lying. What are the odds they were telling the truth?
 
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