Certified Exit Started On A Resale Contract

[nicemann]

Since first email confirming the call about beginning the certified exit, I have not recieved any update. I plan on calling tomorrow to make sure I didn't miss a email to confirm exit process.

Did your call give any updates?

 

[Arimaas]

That's extremely similar to the verbiage from the three times I've used it (2019, 2023, and 2025). It's good to know it's still basically the same. It also seems from anecdotal data that the near-moratorium they had on accepting CWA contracts starting around a year ago seems to have loosened up in the last couple of months.

Take back CWA points to prepare for another swap round?

 

[HitchHiker71]

Take back CWA points to prepare for another swap round?

Nope it's not that - in point of fact that CWA swaps are winding down - a solid subset of the impacted resorts (four of them) are no longer taking swap requests as the bankruptcy processes are too far along now.

 

[paxsarah]

Nope it's not that - in point of fact that CWA swaps are winding down - a solid subset of the impacted resorts (four of them) are no longer taking swap requests as the bankruptcy processes are too far along now.

I think the implication would be another round of closures that would lead to another round of swaps.

But no, there are dozens of reasons that Wyndham would again be accepting CWA contracts back via Certified Exit. Remember that they were accepting CWA contracts through Ovation and CE at an anecdotally near-100% rate from whenever Ovation started through mid-2025. This is just reverting back (or at least closer - I'm not sure we're near 100% acceptance at this point) to that norm.

 

[dioxide45]

CWA is also a much cheaper, perhaps a free, method to get back inventory to sell. CWS has added legal costs, a likely title search and deed prep and recording costs. CWA is just DocuSign and a database update.

When we were previously discussing the swaps and removal of sold resorts from CWA, it seemed to be implied that Wyndham was sitting on a huge pile of unsold and reaquired inventory. I thought they took a significant inventory impairment and write-down in Q2 to account for swaps and inventory lost through the closed resorts. I don't know what those write-downs and impairments would equate to in terms of contract sales as the value of the inventory on their books would be much lower than what they can sell it for.

The can really only see a few reasons for Wyndham to take back CWA. First is to have it available to sell and two for additional swaps moving forward. A third could be to have inventory available for rental revenue and fulfill promotional packages. Perhaps one time use bonus points provided when they sell CWA also come out of current use year unsold inventory.

As for inventory available for sale, I know Marriott has indicated they like to have 18-24 months and perhaps up to three years of inventory for sale in the pipeline. I don't think I've seen where Travel+Leisure has provided any guidance on that. They can only add so much inventory through deed backs, foreclosures. New builds usually require at least a three to five year lead time before they can expect inventory ready to sell.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I think the implication would be another round of closures that would lead to another round of swaps.

But no, there are dozens of reasons that Wyndham would again be accepting CWA contracts back via Certified Exit. Remember that they were accepting CWA contracts through Ovation and CE at an anecdotally near-100% rate from whenever Ovation started through mid-2025. This is just reverting back (or at least closer - I'm not sure we're near 100% acceptance at this point) to that norm.

Yes, they likely turned down the spigots for taking back CWA contracts temporarily during the CWA swap process as Wyndham really had no idea what the take rate would be for the swapped contracts. Now that the swap processes are winding down, they not only have reliable take rate data from the past several months, they have trending data, and can now start taking CWA (and potentially other) contracts back via CE based upon reliable data analytics to ensure sales has enough inventory to sell the retail product(s). Basically, when there are known unknowns for future demand - even if temporary as was the case with the CWA swaps, corporations will tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to taking on too much supply (unsold inventory) and simply draw down existing inventories in the short term. Once the trend datasets are known, they can start turning the spigots back on and replenish supply.

 

[Arimaas]

I think the implication would be another round of closures that would lead to another round of swaps.

But no, there are dozens of reasons that Wyndham would again be accepting CWA contracts back via Certified Exit. Remember that they were accepting CWA contracts through Ovation and CE at an anecdotally near-100% rate from whenever Ovation started through mid-2025. This is just reverting back (or at least closer - I'm not sure we're near 100% acceptance at this point) to that norm.

Yes. That was what I was asking. If Wyndham was trying to up their CWA inventory to prepare to swap out with the next round. I have resort closure PTSD.

 

[dioxide45]

Yes. That was what I was asking. If Wyndham was trying to up their CWA inventory to prepare to swap out with the next round. I have resort closure PTSD.

I would expect them to start taking back CWS deeds first in order to get their ownership stake up at resorts they would wan to include in a next round. We know all the resorts they put through the first round had 50%+ control. It is suspected that certain HOAs were left out because they didn't have enough control. Vacation Break being one of them.

 

[Arimaas]

I would expect them to start taking back CWS deeds first in order to get their ownership stake up at resorts they would wan to include in a next round. We know all the resorts they put through the first round had 50%+ control. It is suspected that certain HOAs were left out because they didn't have enough control. Vacation Break being one of them.

Why would they need over 50%? I thought this wasn’t a Wyndham driven action but what the BOD and members wanted ? (This is sarcasm)

 

[dioxide45]

Why would they need over 50%? I thought this wasn’t a Wyndham driven action but what the BOD and members wanted ? (This is sarcasm)

They would need to look at all the governing documents, but many of them may have lower provisions for requesting a special election. Perhaps 20% or 25%. It would vary depending on each property. If they have enough to request the special election but not enough to control the outcome of the vote, they could then try to go to the HOAs and see if they have enough support bankruptcy. I suspect the last round would give them some metrics on how many actual individual owners voted and decide if it is worth going through the process at other resorts where they don't have the control needed to determine the destiny with their votes alone.

 

[Arimaas]

They would need to look at all the governing documents, but many of them may have lower provisions for requesting a special election. Perhaps 20% or 25%. It would vary depending on each property. If they have enough to request the special election but not enough to control the outcome of the vote, they could then try to go to the HOAs and see if they have enough support bankruptcy. I suspect the last round would give them some metrics on how many actual individual owners voted and decide if it is worth going through the process at other resorts where they don't have the control needed to determine the destiny with their votes alone.

Oh I was just being a snark. I knew why they needed majority.

 

[paxsarah]

Why would they need over 50%? I thought this wasn’t a Wyndham driven action but what the BOD and members wanted ? (This is sarcasm)

At this point, it's all over their investor materials and reports that it's been a corporate initiative, regardless of how some individuals may have tried to spin it early on. I would say as soon as Wyndham put up the first explanatory webpage in July 2025*, it was clear that it was a corporate initiative - which doesn't negate that each resort had to close under the immediate governance of the HOA, not Club Wyndham.

* "we are making some important changes" "We will work with HOA boards in certain locations to determine the future for their respective properties." "With these changes, we aim to alleviate maintenance fee burdens" etc.

 

[WManning]

Did your call give any updates?

No email yet for DocuSign. Called this week to see when I might receive the documents to start transfer, Customer service rep said give it another 4 weeks. I will call back first week of September if no email is received before then.

 

[nicemann]

No email yet for DocuSign. Called this week to see when I might receive the documents to start transfer, Customer service rep said give it another 4 weeks. I will call back first week of September if no email is received before then.

Wow so could be 6 weeks just to receive the initial paperwork. Now I can see why it can take 20 weeks.

 

[HitchHiker71]

At this point, it's all over their investor materials and reports that it's been a corporate initiative, regardless of how some individuals may have tried to spin it early on. I would say as soon as Wyndham put up the first explanatory webpage in July 2025*, it was clear that it was a corporate initiative - which doesn't negate that each resort had to close under the immediate governance of the HOA, not Club Wyndham.

* "we are making some important changes" "We will work with HOA boards in certain locations to determine the future for their respective properties." "With these changes, we aim to alleviate maintenance fee burdens" etc.

No one ever really argued otherwise IMHO. It was more about understanding the actual processes and who was doing what from a legal and procedural standpoint. It may seem like semantics but details matter. As you outlined above, there was never really any doubt that Wyndham was at the helm, and holding majority intervals put them in the drivers seat of the bus - to continue using the bus analogy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[paxsarah]

No one ever really argued otherwise IMHO.

To clarify, I wasn't throwing vague shade against anyone in particular when I said "regardless of how some individuals may have tried to spin it early on" - I honestly didn't remember the specifics of who said what and I'm not going back through 6,600+ posts across two threads to find out. But the sarcastic derision against that argument ("oh, sure, it was just the HOA that made this decision, uh-huh") has existed since early in the process, so there's probably some there there. But contrary to my usual nature of digging up the receipts, I just don't have the time or effort to expend on it.

Edit: I lied. I did go back through a few pages early in the thread. My guess is the trope that some were arguing this was all the HOAs' decision morphed from the lack of communication early on and the assertion that it was really up to the HOAs to communicate details, not Club Wyndham corporate, because the legal process existed at the HOA level. I think we all felt a distinct vacuum in communications from Club Wyndham in those early months. And I'm about 75% sure I've seen the actual argument on Facebook (that the HOAs did this, not Club Wyndham), but FB's search function is basically useless for this type of search so I'm for sure not even going to try.

 

[HitchHiker71]

CWA is also a much cheaper, perhaps a free, method to get back inventory to sell. CWS has added legal costs, a likely title search and deed prep and recording costs. CWA is just DocuSign and a database update.

When we were previously discussing the swaps and removal of sold resorts from CWA, it seemed to be implied that Wyndham was sitting on a huge pile of unsold and reaquired inventory. I thought they took a significant inventory impairment and write-down in Q2 to account for swaps and inventory lost through the closed resorts. I don't know what those write-downs and impairments would equate to in terms of contract sales as the value of the inventory on their books would be much lower than what they can sell it for.

The can really only see a few reasons for Wyndham to take back CWA. First is to have it available to sell and two for additional swaps moving forward. A third could be to have inventory available for rental revenue and fulfill promotional packages. Perhaps one time use bonus points provided when they sell CWA also come out of current use year unsold inventory.

As for inventory available for sale, I know Marriott has indicated they like to have 18-24 months and perhaps up to three years of inventory for sale in the pipeline. I don't think I've seen where Travel+Leisure has provided any guidance on that. They can only add so much inventory through deed backs, foreclosures. New builds usually require at least a three to five year lead time before they can expect inventory ready to sell.

The major reason for taking back CWA through CE is very simple. They take back that inventory for free - pay nothing for it - outside of minimal processing costs and the MFs once they take back the contract of course - and since they sell more CWA than any other type of VOI today, it's basically free net new VOI revenue for Wyndham to resell at developer rates.

 

[cowboy]

Has anyone recently given back a Kona Coast 11 Shell Vacation Club deeded summer week purchased on the after market to Wyndham? If so, how did the process go?

 

[WManning]

Wow so could be 6 weeks just to receive the initial paperwork. Now I can see why it can take 20 weeks.

Recieved Docusign today 8/13. 24 days from receiving certified exit acceptance letter on 7/20

 

[nicemann]

Recieved Docusign today 8/13. 24 days from receiving certified exit acceptance letter on 7/20

Congrats, thanks for the update

 

[cowboy]

What is the name of the grantee on the contract and or deed?

 

[nicemann]

What is the name of the grantee on the contract and or deed?

What are you referring to? I received my DocuSign today for my certified exit.

 

[dioxide45]

What are you referring to? I received my DocuSign today for my certified exit.

You should have been sent an Assignment of Contract and Assumption Agreement. Your name should be in the green box and the entity it is being transferred to is in the red box. @cowboy is asking whose name is in the red box.

 

[nicemann]

Hopefully these pictures come across. This is the only thing on the docusign.

 

[nicemann]

Recieved Docusign today 8/13. 24 days from receiving certified exit acceptance letter on 7/20

Have you by chance heard anything else yet?