CDC: People with Covid 19 twice as likely to have eaten out at a restaurant

[Luanne]

But not of COVID which is the topic

Right. Why take risks you don't need to take.

 

[CPNY]

The main factors for COVID risk are:
- enclosed space (outdoors is better than indoors; ventilated with fresh clean air is better than nonventilated or poorly ventilated)
- people who aren't in your household (the fewer people you're near the better)
- prolonged contact (a quick conversation for 3 minutes is better than hanging out at a friends house for 3 hours)

Eating indoors at restaurants is all three risky factors.

How to mitigate risk? Do anything you can do to limit exposure to air others have breathed out, within reason including:
- masks reduce the number of virions that transfer from one person to another
- social distance (increased space between people means virions are more likely to fall from the air onto the ground and not get inhaled by another person)

And sure, you can eat at restaurants for months and not get it (or maybe just not get symptoms but pass it onto others) just like there are people who smoke for decades and don't die of lung cancer. Risk is not a black-and-white thing that's all-or-nothing. It's a spectrum of low risk to high risk. We all have to live our lives and make our own choices. But don't pretend that high risk choices are low risk choices.

Here is a chart that shows some behaviors and how risky they are:

Air travel is high, so many people have been flying yet not many have contracted it. Also, no cases linked to theme park openings

 

[Luanne]

Air travel is high, so many people have been flying yet not many have contracted it. Also, no cases linked to theme park openings

Maybe you should say no reported cases linked to theme park openings.

https://www.fatherly.com/news/downtown-disney-covid-19-hidden-cases-disneyland/

 

[rapmarks]

we really need the truth. tracking of the reported cases. a synopsis of where the majority of the cases originated
My friend told me that the majority are from large gatherings and the second cause is nursing homes. I am able to avoid both, and I sure hope she is correct.
We are flying back to Florida on Oct 11. My doctor told me to get the flu shot two weeks before we leave so it will be effective for the flight. When I was talking to the airlines about wheelchair assistance, I asked if they were filling center seats. she said they were! I am worried about the flight, but I have no winter clothes, I have not driven on snow or ice for many years and I doubt I could walk to my mailbox here without doing the slip and slide. so we will hunker down and make the move.
My daughters boyfriend refuses to wear a mask and doesn't believe in the seriousness of Covid. He says it won't kill most people. I have told him it will probably kill me if I get it. Meanwhile I don't go see my grandkids very much. The only bright side is he really doesn't do much with other people except go into Home Depot for materials.

 

[Luanne]

we really need the truth. tracking of the reported cases. a synopsis of where the majority of the cases originated
My friend told me that the majority are from large gatherings and the second cause is nursing homes. I am able to avoid both, and I sure hope she is correct.
We are flying back to Florida on Oct 11. My doctor told me to get the flu shot two weeks before we leave so it will be effective for the flight. When I was talking to the airlines about wheelchair assistance, I asked if they were filling center seats. she said they were! I am worried about the flight, but I have no winter clothes, I have not driven on snow or ice for many years and I doubt I could walk to my mailbox here without doing the slip and slide. so we will hunker down and make the move.
My daughters boyfriend refuses to wear a mask and doesn't believe in the seriousness of Covid. He says it won't kill most people. I have told him it will probably kill me if I get it. Meanwhile I don't go see my grandkids very much. The only bright side is he really doesn't do much with other people except go into Home Depot for materials.

When I was having my hair cut (yes, a risk I am willing to take) there was a man there who had just come back from Florida (to Albuquerque). I think they have a second home there. He said that a few months ago the planes were empty, now they are pretty much full.

 

[geekette]

Dumb question. Why are tennis courts closed at most resorts?
You are practicing social distancing; you are more than 6 feets apart.
You are outdoor playing in fresh air.
Tennis courts are enclosed with wire fence to avoid contact with other players and resort guests.
You can choose to wear a mask or not wear a mask (you are still 6 feet apart & outdoors, the tennis net is dividing you from touching the other player. ).

The chart above list tennis as low risk with a score of 2.

So why are tennis courts closed.

I am guessing that staff to maintain them have been dismissed or a holdover from closed playgrounds in March? Very good question, tho. Please post back if you get an answer.

 

[Goldi]

we really need the truth. tracking of the reported cases. a synopsis of where the majority of the cases originated
My friend told me that the majority are from large gatherings and the second cause is nursing homes. I am able to avoid both, and I sure hope she is correct.
We are flying back to Florida on Oct 11. My doctor told me to get the flu shot two weeks before we leave so it will be effective for the flight. When I was talking to the airlines about wheelchair assistance, I asked if they were filling center seats. she said they were! I am worried about the flight, but I have no winter clothes, I have not driven on snow or ice for many years and I doubt I could walk to my mailbox here without doing the slip and slide. so we will hunker down and make the move.
My daughters boyfriend refuses to wear a mask and doesn't believe in the seriousness of Covid. He says it won't kill most people. I have told him it will probably kill me if I get it. Meanwhile I don't go see my grandkids very much. The only bright side is he really doesn't do much with other people except go into Home Depot for materials.

You might look at Southwest Airlines. They are keeping the middle seat open through the end of October.

 

[CPNY]

Maybe you should say no reported cases linked to theme park openings.

https://www.fatherly.com/news/downtown-disney-covid-19-hidden-cases-disneyland/

Shopping downtown Disney, it seems all retail needs to close for good.

 

[controller1]

[tacky]

Going by the USTA guidelines.

 

[WinniWoman]

But not of COVID which is the topic

what? What’s not of COVID?

 

[Brett]

we really need the truth. tracking of the reported cases. a synopsis of where the majority of the cases originated
My friend told me that the majority are from large gatherings and the second cause is nursing homes. I am able to avoid both, and I sure hope she is correct.
We are flying back to Florida on Oct 11. My doctor told me to get the flu shot two weeks before we leave so it will be effective for the flight. When I was talking to the airlines about wheelchair assistance, I asked if they were filling center seats. she said they were! I am worried about the flight, but I have no winter clothes, I have not driven on snow or ice for many years and I doubt I could walk to my mailbox here without doing the slip and slide. so we will hunker down and make the move.
My daughters boyfriend refuses to wear a mask and doesn't believe in the seriousness of Covid. He says it won't kill most people. I have told him it will probably kill me if I get it. Meanwhile I don't go see my grandkids very much. The only bright side is he really doesn't do much with other people except go into Home Depot for materials.

your daughter's boyfriend is somewhat correct - COVID won't kill most people - just those most vulnerable.
And the coronavirus has some nasty long term after effects
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...th/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351

 

[davidvel]

I wish they had asked about indoor or outdoor. It sounds like takeout is okay. FWIW...We were sick two weeks ago after eating out at a restaurant for the first time (no food poisoning symptoms, tested negative for Covid).

CDC: People with COVID-19 twice as likely to have eaten out at a restaurant before getting sick

People who tested positive for COVID-19 were twice as likely to report eating or drinking at a bar or restaurant in the past two weeks, according to the CDC.

www.fox5ny.com

The study does not differentiate between indoor/outdoor (not helpful). Also the study found that those that had covid and had gone to restaurants/bars were 10 times more likely to have reported that people were not practicing social distancing or mask wearing at the restaurants. This isn't highlighted in the article, and differentiates non-compliant restaurants from all restaurants.

This data shows it's likely not just going to restaurant, but going to a restaurant where people aren't following recommended precautions, and living in an area where this is acceptable. Where we live, almost everyone follows the precautions at restaurants, even those that don't believe in it. I didn't see data in the study breaking it down by geography, but I suspect that most people that contracted it at restaurants live in areas where social distancing, mask wearing and general sanitization are not followed by most. Without taking these factors into account, the study doesn't tell us much, and restaurants in general as being a hot spot is too overbroad. Obviously going to a restaurant is more conducive to becoming infected than staying in your basement, but the mitigation strategies protect front line workers every day.

 

[VegasBella]

Indeed, restaurants are not hotspots per se. There are very likely some doing it well and many doing it poorly. What remains is that in the restaurant setting, so many people remove their masks for extended periods, talk loudly to one another (louder you speak, further your exhaled air travels), and meet up with nonhousehold members. Outdoor dining with only your household members and putting your mask on whenever you are talking or not eating would greatly mitigate the risks of restaurants. It's just most people aren't doing that.

So why are tennis courts closed.

First answer is laziness. Before people understood the levels of risk associated with various sports and activities they just shut everything down. And so some places are just leaving things shut down. Maybe to save money. The parks in my city shut down tennis originally but then opened tennis and golf back up while keeping playgrounds and basketball courts closed.

The other answer is... there's a bit of a power grab. For instance you may notice that where ever you have day use privileges the resorts have removed those privileges and claimed COVID as the reason. While it's possible that day use could increase COVID risk for people staying or working at the resort, it seems unlikely since not many timeshare owners even still have it. I think they are mostly using it as a way to try to eventually eliminate day use - especially at DRI and Wyndham resorts - because they try to eliminate it whenever they can. It's just a power grab.

Life is a risk. If you get in your car it’s a risk.

Yes it is. I mitigate the risks of driving to myself and others by wearing a seat belt, not driving impaired, getting a newer car that has more safety features, obeying the driving regulations, having insurance. It's the same as wearing a mask, and choosing take out instead of dine in.

Air travel is high, so many people have been flying yet not many have contracted it. Also, no cases linked to theme park openings

I believe this is because airlines and theme parks recognize the inherent risks and have taken strategies to minimize risk. For instance, they're often doing temperature scans, requiring masks, reducing occupancy etc.
Also, there's the air filtration component. Airlines have very good air filtration. Theme parks are outdoors. These things play a big role and help mitigate the enclosed spaces with large numbers of people. Similarly these are huge businesses that are likely to minimize negative publicity so you may not hear about as many cases as there actually are. Those activities are definitely more dangerous than many others.

 

[Old Hickory]

So are we believing the CDC, now?

 

[WinniWoman]

Yes it is. I mitigate the risks of driving to myself and others by wearing a seat belt, not driving impaired, getting a newer car that has more safety features, obeying the driving regulations, having insurance. It's the same as wearing a mask, and choosing take out instead of dine in.

Ahhhh, but it is the others who do not mitigate the risks by driving without insurance, or intoxicated, or not wearing their seat belts or do not obey the driving regulations that still make driving risky for everyone else- just as the pro maskers acuse those who do not wear masks or distance as not caring about them and making things more risky.

Therefore, the pro maskers stay home as much as possible out of fear (ex: not eating out in restaurants). So one would think the same should be with driving then.

 

[turkel]

We have eaten at 1 restaurant since March. Out in a parking lot. It was windy, warm and we could not order alcohol. After we decided no thanks it wasn’t worth the price of admission.

We will wait until indoor dining is available. I have always hated eating outside. Who wants to swat at flies while trying to eat?

 

[klpca]

We have eaten at 1 restaurant since March. Out in a parking lot. It was windy, warm and we could not order alcohol. After we decided no thanks it wasn’t worth the price of admission.

We will wait until indoor dining is available. I have always hated eating outside. Who wants to swat at flies while trying to eat?

It's funny, I have never eaten more meals outside. My husband has been working from home, sitting at our kitchen table, since March. That's the main reason that we aren't sitting at the table for dinner. It would be like he never left his desk. We eat in our backyard probably 5 nights out of 7, and the one and only restaurant near my office has three patios and it turns out that I like it more than I thought I would. Inside has always been very noisy and echo-y, but the patios are beautifully landscaped and really pleasant.

Btw, why couldn't you order alcohol? That's odd. We've been able to order that from the day that they reopened.

 

[Luanne]

Btw, why couldn't you order alcohol? That's odd. We've been able to order that from the day that they reopened.

I wonder if it had to do with the fact they were eating in what had been the parking lot. Possibly the restaurant isn't licensed to serve alcohol outside. Those restaurants with existing patios and outside dining are probably fine, but those that have improvised to extend their seating to non-traditional areas might be limited. It's only a guess. We've seen quite a few places in Santa Fe where restaurants have extended their seating outside the normal boundaries. We haven't eaten at a restaurant so I can't verify whether or not those locations are able to serve alcohol (and I imagine it varies state by state).

 

[rickandcindy23]

We haven't been going to restaurants, but not because of Covid, more because we have been so used to eating at home, it just plain got easier to cook than to go to a restaurant, wait in line for a table with a distance from people with a mask on, etc.

I am losing more weight eating from home than eating out, so I have now been trained to eat at home. Thank you Covid for ruining the dining out experience for me and helping me to lose those last 7 pounds I have been struggling to lose. There is bad with the good.

But I can tell you that I am so anxious for life to get back to normal again.

I heard a person of some authority in CA schools say that after the election, schools can open up again. So it's apparently political that kids cannot go to school and has very little to do with Covid. Why is the election causing this angst in schools' reopening?

Los Angeles County health director expects schools to reopen after the election, according to audio recording - Washington Examiner

Los Angeles County Health Director Barbara Ferrer said that she doesn't expect schools to reopen until after November's election. “We don’t realistically anticipate that we would be moving to either tier 2 or to reopening K-12 schools at least until after the election, in early November," Ferrer...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[Brett]

We haven't been going to restaurants, but not because of Covid, more because we have been so used to eating at home, it just plain got easier to cook than to go to a restaurant, wait in line for a table with a distance from people with a mask on, etc.

I am losing more weight eating from home than eating out, so I have now been trained to eat at home. Thank you Covid for ruining the dining out experience for me and helping me to lose those last 7 pounds I have been struggling to lose. There is bad with the good.

But I can tell you that I am so anxious for life to get back to normal again.

I heard a person of some authority in CA schools say that after the election, schools can open up again. So it's apparently political that kids cannot go to school and has very little to do with Covid. Why is the election causing this angst in schools' reopening?

Los Angeles County health director expects schools to reopen after the election, according to audio recording - Washington Examiner

Los Angeles County Health Director Barbara Ferrer said that she doesn't expect schools to reopen until after November's election. “We don’t realistically anticipate that we would be moving to either tier 2 or to reopening K-12 schools at least until after the election, in early November," Ferrer...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

In coastal Virginia some schools have reopened 'in-person'.
The restaurants in coastal Virginia are open (with social distancing).
Busch Gardens and the local zoos are open.
I don't think it had anything to do with the election in November.

 

[geekette]

gee, if only we knew which restaurants have COVID on the menu and could avoid... /s

completely agree, it's not the place, it's the people. I am cheap by nature so wasn't doing much restauranting before this stuff. I did have dinner outside with a friend last week. There were 3 big tables out there, at least 6 ft between but probably not more than that. The tables each sat 5 people yet no party of 5 for the while I was there, mostly 2 people.

Inside, they had closed off 2 tables between each 'usable' table, and at the bar, they simply moved around boxes once a party was seated so no one would sit beside them, blocking 2 seats on either side of the party. I thought that was a clever solution to adapt to however many in a party at the bar.

There is little to no chance that I will be increasing my dining out budget, especially as winter comes on....

 

[rickandcindy23]

In coastal Virginia some schools have reopened 'in-person'.
The restaurants in coastal Virginia are open (with social distancing).
Busch Gardens and the local zoos are open.
I don't think it had anything to do with the election in November.

Talking about CA in my post, not VA. CA remains closed, completely and totally closed.

 

[Luanne]

Talking about CA in my post, not VA. CA remains closed, completely and totally closed.

The Washington Examiner, where the article about the LA County schools was found, is a conservative paper. Not sure I'd trust their slant on this. And this interview, or statement, was from ONE person. So again, may not be a totally unbiased view of what is going on in the entire state of California. Plus, the state is not completely and totally closed.

 

[SueDonJ]

Ahhhh, but it is the others who do not mitigate the risks by driving without insurance, or intoxicated, or not wearing their seat belts or do not obey the driving regulations that still make driving risky for everyone else- just as the pro maskers acuse those who do not wear masks or distance as not caring about them and making things more risky.

Therefore, the pro maskers stay home as much as possible out of fear (ex: not eating out in restaurants). So one would think the same should be with driving then.

Can we stop with the ridiculous false equivalencies between any other risk in the known universe and the risk presented by a worldwide super-contagious virus that is not detectable at first glance in every single person who's carrying/spreading it?

And can we also stop with the passive/agressive comments about "fear" being what drives some of us to listen to the experts who tell us that if we're going to have any chance at all of ever getting back to some semblance of normalcy, even after a vaccine might be developed, we should be following established practices (masks, social distancing, etc) that have been utilized with success all over the world during the last century? Fear isn't my driver; compassion is.

Cripes. We couldn't be more dismissive of each other if we tried.

 

[Glynda]

Can we stop with the ridiculous false equivalencies between any other risk in the known universe and the risk presented by a worldwide super-contagious virus that is not detectable at first glance in every single person who's carrying/spreading it?

And can we also stop with the passive/agressive comments about "fear" being what drives some of us to listen to the experts who tell us that if we're going to have any chance at all of ever getting back to some semblance of normalcy, even after a vaccine might be developed, we should be following established practices (masks, social distancing, etc) that have been utilized with success all over the world during the last century? Fear isn't my driver; compassion is.

Cripes. We couldn't be more dismissive of each other if we tried.

AMEN!!!!