Canada & China helping eachother perfectly

[Brett]

I'm a huge buy local fan. I agree with you. Why did USA citizens switch to wanting cheap imported Walmart crap, destroy local business and let good paying manufacturing jobs leave the country? To save 15% on the cost of a Tshirt and air conditioner ?? Wake up! Same goes for Canada where i live. Countries, states/provinces, and cities need to produce stuff for their own.

Sent from my SM-A505G using Tapatalk

easy to say !
There's a reason manufacturing moved overseas - cheap labor, lax government regulations, etc.
For some strange reason consumers want to buy goods at the lowest cost - crazy !!

 

[turkel]

easy to say !
There's a reason manufacturing moved overseas - cheap labor, lax government regulations, etc.
For some strange reason consumers want to buy goods at the lowest cost - crazy !!

All true, but at our own peril.

 

[pedro47]

Never said 100%. I used to teach 1st year college economics. Support your neighbours! Reject Walmart!

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Is there any data on how many small business Walmart and Seven Eleven Corporations have force to close?

 

[Brett]

All true, but at our own peril.

yes, the "peril" of low prices
Will someone have the courage to eliminate worker safety regulations, social security, healthcare and re-institute the $5 a day wage to bring back American jobs?

 

[CanuckTravlr]

Curious. Doesn't Canada and Great Britain usually follow the same path of political diplomacy with China? The following article would potentially put them at odds. Some excerpts:

Really? Are we still in the 19th century? Canada, like the two other former, major British Dominions, Australia and New Zealand, has long been an independent country. We obviously have a shared history and even a shared monarch, so we often have similar attitudes and policies to the UK. But the same could often be said of the UK and the USA (at least until recently) for many of the same reasons.

This antiquated concept by many Americans that Canada and the UK are somehow still tied at the hip needs to die. There have been many instances in the 20th century, let alone the 21st, where our policies have diverged or been "at odds". Even when our policies may be in basic agreement, we often get there via different paths or for different reasons.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

.........Senior Ministers think .......and they are demanding an urgent review of Britain's relationship with ......

.....And No 10 believes China is seeking to build its economic power during the pandemic with 'predatory offers of help' countries .....

These are likely the same “senior ministers” who caused the Brexit debacle and think anything Euro is not to be trusted .

this old joke sums up their thought process - The British think the French are. dirty. because they take a bath once a week //fyi - [The French think the British are dirty because they have to take one every day .]

Re : “No 10 Downing” -pretty rich from -
the “ centre of the universe “:that invented colonialism ; enriched itself from the slave trade ;
and laissez faired millions of Irish to death from starvation during the 19th century potato blight(s / among many examples .

 

[CanuckTravlr]

That would be all well and good if everyone was equally good at producing everything. But comparative advantage exists and makes us all richer. Taken to an extreme, we could all revert to sustenance agriculture and provide our own needs within our own family, but in that case I think not many folks would get as far as producing pharmaceuticals.

As a more cogent example, I live in a cold place. It makes a great deal of sense for Alberta (where I live) to export natural gas which we have in abundance to the USA in exchange for money, and then use the money to buy orange juice from Florida and strawberries and almonds from California. We could use the gas to heat giant greenhouses and grow that produce ourselves. Trading the gas for the produce makes everyone better off.

As a former economics major with a specialization in international trade, I agree with you in theory. It is a basic economic tenet that production should occur where there is the most natural economic advantage. Your example of natural gas versus oranges or strawberries is a good example, because large quantities of natural gas results in production economies of scale that outweigh the added transportation costs, or the scarcity of the product elsewhere. The same applies to the oranges and strawberries. Not having to heat huge greenhouses more than offsets the transportation costs from Florida and California.

The theory is that everyone gains the most advantage by allowing the free flow of goods and services for natural advantage or the ability to produce in larger economies of scale. But the reality is more complex. First, the theory assumes a level playing field. That exists more or less between Canada and the USA, at least to the extent it ever can between two different countries. It does not exist between China and any other country. Aside from much lower labour costs, which can be a valid natural advantage, they also had much less restrictive labour and production standards and many artificial barriers to open trade internally than the countries with which they were supposedly "competing".

It is unfortunately not even close to the level playing field the basic economic theory assumes. There are short-term advantages, such as the $5 T-shirt or increased corporate profits. We all potentially benefit from those in the short-term. However, I would posit that the quality of that $5 T-shirt is often not the same as what was originally produced by the clothing mills of the east a few decades ago, IME!!

Pure economic advantages are not, nor should be in a more complex economic world, the only determinants. Strategic planning and some measure of increased self-sufficiency can also be laudable goals that are taken into consideration in more complex economic models, once you graduate beyond Economics 101. One of the biggest impediments to the reaching of modern "free-trade" agreements is negotiating through the maze of each country's internal, artificial barriers, such as lax labour standards, government subsidies and tariffs or other trade barriers.

We are seeing today some of the implications of looking only at lowest cost or largest profit. The massive diversity of manufacturing and the ability of the USA to quickly retool to necessary wartime production, was one of the reasons the country was able to quickly go to war and have its presence massively felt following Pearl Harbor, despite the loss of much of its Pacific Fleet.

In this time of peril today, we are seeing examples of both small and large companies, on both sides of the border, scrambling to find ways to quickly produce quantities of items in desperately short supply, such as masks, gowns, gloves and ventilators. Some of those examples are down-rightly innovative and show that we have not lost the ability to be creative. Kudos to them, especially those that are not using it as a method to price gouge at our time of greatest need!

The bigger part of the problem is that worldwide demand has overwhelmed the capability of the manufacturers to produce sufficient quantities. But many of those facilities are in China. Many of them were shut down while that country was fighting the initial outbreak of the pandemic. That has exacerbated the supply issue. The transfer out of the technology and the ability to produce much of it ourselves, together with the lack of diversified manufacturing locations in the world, has hampered the West's ability to quickly respond and help solve the issue ourselves.

You can tell by the length of this "dissertation" that I have way too much time on my hands while isolated here in my home, observing physical distancing. My apologies to those of you looking for a short read!!

However, maybe there is a longer-term lesson to be learned here, beyond just the classic economic one!

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

That would be all well and good if everyone was equally good at producing everything. But comparative advantage exists and makes us all richer. Taken to an extreme, we could all revert to sustenance agriculture and provide our own needs within our own family

I think not many folks would get as far as producing pharmaceuticals.

I don’t know - between BC-bud & barn made Crystal Meth, maybe we will all be trading Toilet Paper for
homemade pharma. in 12 months .
LOL
******
PS - Your post makes a lot of sense

added - as does Canuck Travlr’s - that was posted while I was typing .

 

[btoby61]

Actually, the process of dismantling the CDC started a couple of years ago. The product of those cuts is now coming to light.

WRONG! from fact check.org...

"It’s true that the president’s proposed budgets have included funding cuts to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention — but Congress hasn’t enacted those cuts."

Democrats' Misleading Coronavirus Claims - FactCheck.org

Democrats have criticized President Donald Trump for his administration's response to the new coronavirus, making claims about cuts to public health programs and the silencing of government experts. But they haven’t always gotten their facts right.

www.factcheck.org

 

[btoby61]

So if you needed 30 pills to live and got 4 you would be happy. Especially when like you say someone in another state kept them because they may need them later.

The doctors were screaming for the PPE that they needed PRONTO and the NY state government chose to build their stockpile. This is perfectly understandable considering the situation. But then the FED government has the same logic and could it not send NY all it was asking for because they have other hotspots to send them to.

 

[bluehende]

The doctors were screaming for the PPE that they needed PRONTO and the NY state government chose to build their stockpile. This is perfectly understandable considering the situation. But then the FED government has the same logic and could it not send NY all it was asking for because they have other hotspots to send them to.

They are NOT stockpiling PPE. Ventilators are being readied as they are not needed today but will be in a few days. Are you advocating for having no extra ventilators available???? The funny part is this would be the best way if you have a reliable source to meet demand. That is not the case. There is a lot of blame to go around for being unprepared from governments past and present to the general emphasis on profit in the health care system. Emphasis on inventory reduction to reduce overhead prevents a lot of money being spent on what ifs. Humans have a tendency to fixate on fixing the last problem and completely ignore the potential next problem out there. We are paying the price now for plan b being to get what you need in an unaffected area. This scenario was not unexpected. Experts have been warning about this exact scenario for decades.

It is time to not denigrate Drs (screaming) and support them in requests that you certainly have no insight into whether they need them or not. They are risking their lives for us.

 

[geist1223]

It was interesting read an article today about how the Disease Experts for the last 20 years have been asking the Federal Government to Stockpile ventilators, etc. So this is apparently a multigenerational problem.

Now back closer to the original theme. Many countries in Europe are rejecting PPE, etc recently manufactured in China as being unsafe/unusable.

 

[pedro47]

As a former economics major with a specialization in international trade, I agree with you in theory. It is a basic economic tenet that production should occur where there is the most natural economic advantage. Your example of natural gas versus oranges or strawberries is a good example, because large quantities of natural gas results in production economies of scale that outweigh the added transportation costs, or the scarcity of the product elsewhere. The same applies to the oranges and strawberries. Not having to heat huge greenhouses more than offsets the transportation costs from Florida and California.

The theory is that everyone gains the most advantage by allowing the free flow of goods and services for natural advantage or the ability to produce in larger economies of scale. But the reality is more complex. First, the theory assumes a level playing field. That exists more or less between Canada and the USA, at least to the extent it ever can between two different countries. It does not exist between China and any other country. Aside from much lower labour costs, which can be a valid natural advantage, they also had much less restrictive labour and production standards and many artificial barriers to open trade internally than the countries with which they were supposedly "competing".

It is unfortunately not even close to the level playing field the basic economic theory assumes. There are short-term advantages, such as the $5 T-shirt or increased corporate profits. We all potentially benefit from those in the short-term. However, I would posit that the quality of that $5 T-shirt is often not the same as what was originally produced by the clothing mills of the east a few decades ago, IME!!

Pure economic advantages are not, nor should be in a more complex economic world, the only determinants. Strategic planning and some measure of increased self-sufficiency can also be laudable goals that are taken into consideration in more complex economic models, once you graduate beyond Economics 101. One of the biggest impediments to the reaching of modern "free-trade" agreements is negotiating through the maze of each country's internal, artificial barriers, such as lax labour standards, government subsidies and tariffs or other trade barriers.

We are seeing today some of the implications of looking only at lowest cost or largest profit. The massive diversity of manufacturing and the ability of the USA to quickly retool to necessary wartime production, was one of the reasons the country was able to quickly go to war and have its presence massively felt following Pearl Harbor, despite the loss of much of its Pacific Fleet.

In this time of peril today, we are seeing examples of both small and large companies, on both sides of the border, scrambling to find ways to quickly produce quantities of items in desperately short supply, such as masks, gowns, gloves and ventilators. Some of those examples are down-rightly innovative and show that we have not lost the ability to be creative. Kudos to them, especially those that are not using it as a method to price gouge at our time of greatest need!

The bigger part of the problem is that worldwide demand has overwhelmed the capability of the manufacturers to produce sufficient quantities. But many of those facilities are in China. Many of them were shut down while that country was fighting the initial outbreak of the pandemic. That has exacerbated the supply issue. The transfer out of the technology and the ability to produce much of it ourselves, together with the lack of diversified manufacturing locations in the world, has hampered the West's ability to quickly respond and help solve the issue ourselves.

You can tell by the length of this "dissertation" that I have way too much time on my hands while isolated here in my home, observing physical distancing. My apologies to those of you looking for a short read!!

However, maybe there is a longer-term lesson to be learned here, beyond just the classic economic one!

Time to reset passwords.

Marriott says new data breach affects 5.2 million guests

Marriott says guests’ names, loyalty account information and other personal details may have been accessed in the second major data breach to hit the company in less than two years.Marriott said Tuesday approximately 5.2 million guests worldwide may have been affected. The information taken may have

ca.finance.yahoo.com

...Marriott said it noticed an unexpected amount of guest information was accessed at the end of February using the login credentials of two employees at a franchised property. The company said it believes the activity began in mid-January.

To CanuckTravir
I liked your reply because it was not a short term reply with no sustained ; but a well thought out reply with a long term explanation. LOL.

 

[Ironwood]

I think NA needs a great reset on their supply chains and where things are manufactured. Setting aside everything we find in Walmart and our dollar stores, 70% of our pharmaceuticals and supplements are manufactured in China and India. It may mean things will cost a little more than before, but so be it.

 

[btoby61]

They are NOT stockpiling PPE. Ventilators are being readied as they are not needed today but will be in a few days. Are you advocating for having no extra ventilators available???? The funny part is this would be the best way if you have a reliable source to meet demand. That is not the case. There is a lot of blame to go around for being unprepared from governments past and present to the general emphasis on profit in the health care system. Emphasis on inventory reduction to reduce overhead prevents a lot of money being spent on what ifs. Humans have a tendency to fixate on fixing the last problem and completely ignore the potential next problem out there. We are paying the price now for plan b being to get what you need in an unaffected area. This scenario was not unexpected. Experts have been warning about this exact scenario for decades.

It is time to not denigrate Drs (screaming) and support them in requests that you certainly have no insight into whether they need them or not. They are risking their lives for us.

I had no intent to put down any medical persons in my post. Just my assessment of what was taking place. I do agree with everything you post otherwise. This is a failure longtime coming. Now we are seeing it hit the fan and finger pointing seems unavoidable. I also believe that everyone is truly trying to do the right thing. Call me an optimist or ignorant, but we are where we are..

 

[dayooper]

I had no intent to put down any medical persons in my post. Just my assessment of what was taking place. I do agree with everything you post otherwise. This is a failure longtime coming. Now we are seeing it hit the fan and finger pointing seems unavoidable. I also believe that everyone is truly trying to do the right thing. Call me an optimist or ignorant, but we are where we are..

Maybe so, but it’s not in anyone’s best interest to point the finger and blame others, create division and pass accountability on to the other side. This isn’t a time for petty arguments, political bickering and covering your own rears. Both sides are engaged in it and it’s creating a slower response for those that really need it, the common citizen. Until we become less arrogant about our opinions and not care about what side of the political spectrum we are on and help all, lives will be needlessly lost.

 

[HenryT]

There is a reason why reviewing history benefits the future, not to point blame but to improve the future.

In the current situation that means documenting lessons learned and all the mistakes which were made during and prior to this virus to avoid those mistakes in the future. Pretending or ignoring failures doesn't help anyone in the long run. These assessments should be made and evaluated to come up with recommendations for minimizing future negative consequences. Also, these assessments should be accurate, thoughtful and objective. It serves no purpose to blame others when the fault lies within.

Of course everything is a trade off. We have to balance the cost of implementing improvements over the expected benefits.

Thus, the thought that what was done is done and we should only be concerned about want to do now is not the right way to go because that philosophy will lead us to make the same mistakes in the future. The priority now though should be to determine the best path forward to solve the current problem based on the knowledge at hand and follow-up with lessons learned after we have recovered from the current crisis.

 

[Brett]

The other china - Taiwan is handling the coronavirus differently ... apparently (more) successful
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-taiwan-case-study-rapid-response-containment-2020-3

 

[pedro47]

The other china - Taiwan is handling the coronavirus differently ... apparently (more) successful
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-taiwan-case-study-rapid-response-containment-2020-3

Brett, that was an excellent article, with some outstanding information. Thank you.

Sounds liked the Taiwan government have an excellent plan in place. Maybe our government official needs to looked at their action plans.

Also wearing masks must be very important to the Taiwan government and its citizens in controlling the coronavirus. IMHO