California pays utilities in other states to take solar power off it's hand

[T_R_Oglodyte]

The payments come out of the pocketbooks of California ratepayers, who are already have some of the highest electricity rates in the country,

Solar power glut boosts California electric bills. Other states reap the benefits

Green energy paid for by California electricity customers is sent away, lowering bills for residents of other states.

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

 

[dougp26364]

Soooooo, they have so much energy they have to PAY other states to take it off their hands…….yet California has some of the highest rates for electricity in the country and suffers brown outs in the summer? Somehow this makes no sense to me. Must be some of that common core math at work. I don’t think anyone really thought this through……but it sounded good on paper.

 

[buzglyd]

And we get to buy it back when the sun goes down.

 

[emeryjre]

This is why getting reliable, safe, electrical storage is so important
Lithium battery backup has been problematic because of limited duration, cost, and fire danger
Form Energy Company claims to have the solution but is at least 2 years away from being able to deploy on a large scale
Other storage solutions each have their pros and cons
But the right storage solution will change the game completely

Here is a story about the large battery backup fire problems in San Diego County

Fire safety concerns as San Diego County attempts to regulate Battery Energy Storage Systems

With three fires at BESS facilities over the past year, CBS 8 is learning more about safety protocols and the county's attempt to catch up on regulations.

www.cbs8.com

 

[jp10558]

This does seem like it's at least partially a transmission issue - i.e. if the electricity could get to more states it seems like it would not go to waste as much.

 

[joestein]

The worst part of this article is that CA wants to triple the amount of solar in their state, offering the highest (I believe) incentives in the nation - while not being able to use all that they generate. Maybe they should cut out the incentives until they figure out how to use what they have or change the incentives to Batteries.

This is not that different from making all cars EVs before there is sufficient charger infrastructure.

 

[callwill]

We California ratepayers are ecstatic that we can help those deplorables in neighboring states to use more of our green electricity so they can stop burning that disgusting un-natural gas and we can all save the world.
Next, if we can manage to grind up bugs into "hamburg" patties, we'll sell it to them below cost so they will stop raising those nasty farting cattle.

Want to hear our brilliant ideas on water-rights?

oh please yes! We all need a good laugh!

 

[Elan]

I find the article lacking without providing exactly when the net outflows occur. A graph of daily (day v night) avg net, by month, would be helpful.

 

[emeryjre]

The problem is the generation of electricity in the early daylight hours
The demand is in the late afternoon, early evening hours as the heat of the day and air conditioning requirements kick in
The issue is well know and is referred to as the duck curve
This is just one article on the issue

https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/confronting-duck-curve-how-address-over-generation-solar-energy#:~:text=The%20duck%20curve%E2%80%94named%20after%20its%20resemblance%20to%20a,off%20as%20electricity%20demand%20peaks%20in%20the%20evening.

 

[buzglyd]

The “experts” failed to realize solar doesn’t work in the dark.

 

[easyrider]

The payments come out of the pocketbooks of California ratepayers, who are already have some of the highest electricity rates in the country,

Solar power glut boosts California electric bills. Other states reap the benefits

Green energy paid for by California electricity customers is sent away, lowering bills for residents of other states.

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

Well you do have sunny skies and nice beaches in California. Probably the best weather in the USA too.

Bill

 

[Superchief]

It appears that most of the incentives are going to industrial production of solar electricity, while the greatest value would be for homeowners to install solar to generate electricity in their own homes. With the high electricity rates in the state, I would definitely install solar in my home if I lived in a sunny area, which describes a large portion of the state. This would also greatly reduce the demand for expanded transmission (also a fire hazard). Governments would greatly benefit from using common sense rather than trying to control everything.

 

[buzglyd]

It appears that most of the incentives are going to industrial production of solar electricity, while the greatest value would be for homeowners to install solar to generate electricity in their own homes. With the high electricity rates in the state, I would definitely install solar in my home if I lived in a sunny area, which describes a large portion of the state. This would also greatly reduce the demand for expanded transmission (also a fire hazard). Governments would greatly benefit from using common sense rather than trying to control everything.

CA Already canceled net metering so the only way to make it work is to put a fire hazard in your garage. It’s not easy being Green - Kermit.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

It appears that most of the incentives are going to industrial production of solar electricity, while the greatest value would be for homeowners to install solar to generate electricity in their own homes. With the high electricity rates in the state, I would definitely install solar in my home if I lived in a sunny area, which describes a large portion of the state. This would also greatly reduce the demand for expanded transmission (also a fire hazard). Governments would greatly benefit from using common sense rather than trying to control everything.

CA Already canceled net metering so the only way to make it work is to put a fire hazard in your garage. It’s not easy being Green - Kermit.

After CA made net metering no longer financially viable, the solar installation changed their sales pitches. Their new sales pitch is to install solar panels and on-site storage so that (ostensibly) a homeowner can be essentially independent of the electricity usage charges. Either purchase the system or rent from them on a 25-year agreement. If you rent the equipment, they take care of all maintenance and guarantee a minimum amount of electricity generated.

When I run the numbers, it doesn't look like it pencils out for us, because based on our last six months of usage data (since we have occupied our house) our peak time usage is pretty small.

 

[billymach4]

Nuclear Power is the future of dependable power.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/07/how-small-modular-reactors-could-expand-nuclear-power-in-the-us.html

 

[buzglyd]

After CA made net metering no longer financially viable, the solar installation changed their sales pitches. Their new sales pitch is to install solar panels and on-site storage so that (ostensibly) a homeowner can be essentially independent of the electricity usage charges. Either purchase the system or rent from them on a 25-year agreement. If you rent the equipment, they take care of all maintenance and guarantee a minimum amount of electricity generated.

When I run the numbers, it doesn't look like it pencils out for us, because based on our last six months of usage data (since we have occupied our house) our peak time usage is pretty small.

I wouldn’t install a battery pack in my garage if it was free. Friends of my sister already had their house burn due to a battery fire and you probably saw the giant battery fire in Escondido not long ago. Interesting that the battery storage facilities are never put in Del Mar or La Jolla.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

It appears that most of the incentives are going to industrial production of solar electricity, while the greatest value would be for homeowners to install solar to generate electricity in their own homes. With the high electricity rates in the state, I would definitely install solar in my home if I lived in a sunny area, which describes a large portion of the state. This would also greatly reduce the demand for expanded transmission (also a fire hazard). Governments would greatly benefit from using common sense rather than trying to control everything.

California had incentives to add rooftop solar. We and most of our neighborhood have it installed and are grandfathered into net metering as long as we add no more than 3 extra panels x% to our system.

Currently we have 2 panels not working but are getting them repaired under warranty. When we first installed the system, the utility was paying us about $1000 / year pre-EV. Repairing the panels will restore 7.6% power to our system so we hope to be close to $0 true-up.

We have since added an EV so I guess I have one of those "dangerous" batteries in our garage.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

most of the incentives are going to industrial production of solar electricity, while the greatest value would be for homeowners to install solar to generate electricity in their own homes. ... Governments would greatly benefit from using common sense rather than trying to control everything

Do you actually think govts have not controlled the residential solar market ever since its infancy? The only reason the market exists is govt subsidies, (and cheap production in China).
Homeowners making 1-by-1 personal decisions are the last bastion of using value to decide. If they don't install solar it is because the huge subsidies that have existed for, idk, 20 yrs maybe, weren't enough for them. Incentives switched toward "industrial production" because homeowners didn't react strongly enough to the "value" of residential incentives.

AFAIK, maybe 4 yrs ago, CA state govt passed a law that every newly-built home in CA MUST incl solar. There was a gradual implementation, but AFAIK that law is now fully in effect, but I haven't followed it. How's that for "value"?

"greatest value would be for homeowners to install solar"
You'd better come up with a detailed definition of "value".
You'd better get more of the "govt control" that you don't like.
You must believe you know better about the individual finances oof CA homeowners than they do.

 

[callwill]

It appears that most of the incentives are going to industrial production of solar electricity, while the greatest value would be for homeowners to install solar to generate electricity in their own homes. With the high electricity rates in the state, I would definitely install solar in my home if I lived in a sunny area, which describes a large portion of the state. This would also greatly reduce the demand for expanded transmission (also a fire hazard). Governments would greatly benefit from using common sense rather than trying to control everything.

common sense and government in the same sentence is laughable. Control is right on.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

I wouldn’t install a battery pack in my garage if it was free

Our friends 3 homes down & across the street are
They installed solar a yr ago. They bought an EV early this yr. They realized they really need storage to make it pay off. So, they tried to install storage. They cannot supposedly. Storage can't be near this, near that,, etc. Can't be near a window? I didn't dig into it with them b//c it was obviously a sore topic.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

We don't have storage.The early bird gets the worm (aka best solar incentives). Solar has worked out great for us and initial investment paid off. Grandfathered net metering.

I am glad we added an extra panel. The solar companies tend to underestimate. It's very costly and a hassle to add later. We also added pigeon screens as those pesky birds find them as ideal nests

With rising energy rates, more driving since Covid, and a boomerang kid at home, it is now cost effective to fix the panels to bring us back to full capacity.

 

[jp10558]

While I tend to think Nuclear is going to be necessary and really should have kept being built for a long time - there is also benefits to at point of use generation to the extent it's viable. Basically 0 transmission losses for one. Then there's the unreliability of the aging electrical grid. While where I live in NY it's basically just windstorms or the like causing trees to take down the lines - other places it's overloads requiring rolling blackouts. Insulating from that is worth while IMO. Then some amount of no additional cost electricity can save ongoing costs as the rates raise etc...

EDIT: For me, in NY we only get enough sun to have the solar make the electricity "free" for the month during the summer, maybe 6 months? My co-workers who got it like it, but I don't see the payback TBH. I did sign up for a solar farm to get 10% off the electricity cost, but it also bills crazy and IDK if I'm really saving money. They only claim I've saved $50 over 6 months of having it, so it's not nothing, but IDK if it's actually worth the PITA.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

This could all be resolved with more wide-spread deployment of dispatchable cat-buttered bread power generation facilities.

Current Status of Research and Development of the Cat-Buttered Bread Singularity for

An update of a topic first discussed here about five or six years ago. ************ CURRENT STATUS OF RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT OF THE CAT-BUTTERED BREAD SINGULARITY FOR ENERGY GENERATION The Basic Principle of a Cat-Buttered Hybrid Generator System In recent years, increasing research has...

tugbbs.com