Buying Voluntary Resorts

[tomandrobin]

It has been a Tug Mantra for a long time now to buy resale, buy where you want to travel and to buy Mandatory. You should not buy Voluntary, especially direct from the developer, since you'll lose 50% of its value.

But with Starwood's new direction with new resorts, eventually all that we are going to be able to buy is Voluntary Resorts. Look at the new sections at St John and Vistana Village, both were made voluntary. I would expect the same for phase 3 at Harborside.

At what point will it become acceptable to buy Voluntary Resorts? I do think that in 5-10 years the Mandatory resorts will become more of a premium on the resale market.

 

[stevens397]

May depend on the evolving situation in terms of getting reservations at other locations. As it gets harder and harder to trade internally into the hot SNC properties, buying Mandatory for that purpose becomes less important. And the properties that are in less demand can often be reserved through Interval.

Then again, people sell their timeshares all the time for a host of reasons. With Starwood's conversion to all-voluntary, that could also mean a decrease in the competition for internal trades.

So apparently, I have no idea! But the difference in price between a new and resale voluntary resort has to be valued, by the purchaser, as the cost of being able to trade internally. The salesmen will show pictures of WSJ and Harborside, never mentioning the difficulty in getting those trades.

 

[Fredm]

I'll stick my neck out.

It seems to me that the consensus opinion re Voluntary vs Mandatory relative value is undergoing some change as we speak. For good reason, in my view.

I seriously doubt that mandatory resale pricing will actually increase with the passing of time. By all reasonable measure, the voluntary resort ownership experience is proving to be the value purchase in the resale market.
That is not to say SVN membership is not a valuable use alternative to some.
Simply that it comes with its own baggage and limitations. At the same time, the comparative success of I.I. trades are almost too good to believe.

My guess is as the facts become more widely understood and appreciated, voluntary resort prices will firm, and the gap will narrow. Timing is also a guess, but I think the current price disparity is as big as it is going to ever be. Voluntary values are hard to ignore. Meanwhile, Mandatory resale prices, with few exceptions, continue to soften.

5-10 years is too far for me to see. Interpreting what is happening right under my nose is hard enough. But, based purely on inquiry activity to my office, that's the way it seems to be shaping up for the present.

 

[Henry M.]

I feel buying resale aftermarket is not a bad deal, if you are OK with not being able to exchange within SVN. If you decide to sell, you will probably not lose much. Buying from the developer is not as good since your loss will be greater than buying resale. The resale prices are what the market is bearing and even though a voluntary report is cheaper, it doesn't mean you'll lose a bigger percentage when compared to buying a mandatory resale. Actually prices seem more stable for voluntary resales than for mandatory.

On the other hand, if you don't plan to sell, then you should ask the same questions about the value of Starpoints and exchanging regardless of what kind of resort you buy.

 

[Joshadelic]

The feedback I've received in the last few days has me thinking...

Would it be best to buy a V SVO if my goals are to upgrade a reasle so I can have SVN and SP's? It seems they are a LOT cheaper on the resale market - and if in the process of upgrading they really do give you the original developer purchase cost towards your upgrade, then it would be a better deal for me, no?

If that were a route I wanted to go, what properties would be best for that? Obviously they would have to be ones with cheap resales available and also have units left for purchase with the developer. I was thinking SVV may be the cheapest way to go.

Anyone have any thoughts on this???

~Josh

 

[LisaRex]

Not to beat a dead horse (who, me?) but unless they continue to build or acquire new properties, SVN is becoming less attractive anyway. How many people come on board and ask the same question again and again? "How easy is it to trade into WSJ, Hawaii and Harborside?"

And the answer remains the same: "Hawaii isn't a problem most weeks at 8 months out, and WSJ and Harborside are a crap shoot most weeks and an impossibility other weeks."

And given the number of units available with more on the horizon, Hawaii is fairly easy to book via the 3 day Starwood priority window in II, too.

So, honestly, how valuable is SVN? Strictly controlled inventory is not conducive to a good trading network.

If I liked a voluntary resort, my opinion hasn't changed. I'd wait patiently and search for the best unit (view/season) I could find on the resale market and forget SVN/SPG. The II trades I've heard voluntary owners getting are pretty impressive. Granted, I probably won't get into WSJ via II but I probably won't get into WSJ via SVN either! So unless there's some other factor driving my decision (e.g. the burning desire to be SPG platinum so I could be stress about my room assignment in hotels, too), I wouldn't pay a 75-100% markup for any reason.

 

[stevens397]

Lisa -

You said it best of all.

 

[tlpnet]

The feedback I've received in the last few days has me thinking...

Would it be best to buy a V SVO if my goals are to upgrade a reasle so I can have SVN and SP's? It seems they are a LOT cheaper on the resale market - and if in the process of upgrading they really do give you the original developer purchase cost towards your upgrade, then it would be a better deal for me, no?

If that were a route I wanted to go, what properties would be best for that? Obviously they would have to be ones with cheap resales available and also have units left for purchase with the developer. I was thinking SVV may be the cheapest way to go.

Anyone have any thoughts on this???

~Josh

To upgrade, you don't have alot of choices because there is low developer inventory of higher SO weeks in resorts that have lower price resales. You run a small risk going this direction because by the time you get your resale purchased and in your name, the developer inventory that was available may no longer be available.

The advice I was given was to retro (instead of upgrade) resale WMH because of the availability of platinum (148,100 SO's) resales on the market, relatively low resale prices, and relatively low cost of MF's. Those are the key things to look for if you're planning on retroing the unit into SVN anyway.

That worked well for me.

-tim