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"Buying into Hyatt" questions

GTLINZ

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New member to Tug, long time reader.

I currently own only one timeshare week with HGVC/Hilton (platinum 1BR) and I have been able to leverage a lot out of vacations out of it by traveling offseason. I may be in a position to purchase a 2nd timeshare later this year and have been pouring thru HVC/Hyatt threads and HVC sales prices on Ebay. HGVC/Hilton seems more flexible to me (3-? nights with starting night not specified, single changeable reservation, borrowing points easy and free) but they also seem disinterested in expanding from their few locations. HVC/Hyatt also looks pretty flexible, but the rules of the game are most understood by those who play the game. We made our first trip to Key West last December (RCI, Galleon) combined with a short Miami stay and loved it. Here is what I am thinking and I would love for HVC/Hyatt owners to shoot holes in my logic. My understanding is based on what I have read, so fire away at that also.

I am thinking of purchasing a November bronze week in Key West. We live in GA and can drive, and can combine with a 3 night Miami Beach HGVC stay if we want (LOVE JOE'S STONE CRABS RESTAURANT !!!!). We loved how quiet it was at year end in the Keys and would probably want to stay there AT LEAST every other year. Locals told me it was the offseason and we liked it that way. I understand the logic of buying max points for maint fees because that is what I did with my HGVC points - but I really want to use my home week often - and that was not my goal when buying HGVC, which was purely a points decision. Here is the way I look at this:

1) it will take many years to recoup the difference in purchase price, and it looks like a bronze goes around $7k, gold for $12k, plat for $16k (this is what I have seen, I may be wrong, the numbers MATTER). Remember - if you took the purchase price difference and invested it, it would take even longer to justify the extra initial dollars. $7k vs $12k investment, considering gold is 44% more points than bronze and assuming $900 maint fee, give an extra $400 in value per year based on MF alone. Considering $5k difference, that is 12 years without interest, estimate 15 years with interest, to make up the difference. Things can change a LOT in 15 years, and odds are timesharing will not change for the better.

2) since HVC ties your home week to a real unit, unlike HGVC, I can look for a week in a unit I LIKE instead of just going after points (this is not a feature of HGVC)

3) I do want to visit Carmel, Tahoe and Sedona, and 4 weeknights would be GREAT because I like to move around in a general area. I figure I could get 2 midweek trips with 1300 HVC points, looking at HVC charts. I think of these years as a "West coast swing" and combined with HGVC points I can get a sandwich weekend in San Fran or Scottsdale to make a nice 10 day trip (I have done weekends with HGVC/RCI so this is proven in my mind to get a weekend between two 4 day midweek HVC reservations). FYI - I have access to ski weeks at HGVC Valdoro so the HVC ski locations aren't on my wish list. I also know new locations are coming up with Hyatt - but not really a priority for me. And BTW - HGVC is raising the points stake on new locations also.

What I do not understand at this point is if I can reasonably expect to be able to get HVC midweek reservations in general. Here is what I do not fully have a grasp of:

A) Do full week reservation requests trump the order in which requests are made for partial weeks? I always want to do "West Coast" swings in Sept so I also would be 2 month behind the first possible requests in the queue for Sept reservations, but still 4 months ahead of CUP, and 6 months ahead of tossing points into extended Interval searches if I got nervous :eek: (I love options).

B) Is the risk MUCH higher in getting consective midweek reservation filled vs just one ?

C) When I submit a request for a specific time period, can I specify multiple locations?

I do not have a lot of vacation time or a lot of cash to invest. HGVC has served me well. I hope you guys can give me insight into how well HVC will work considering my approach to using it. THANKS AND LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR REPLIES ! :)
 

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GTLINZ,

You have a million questions I would suggest going to a sales presentation at Hyatt and go to Kals website.

I personally would NEVER but anything but a 2200 or 2000 point week yes you pay more $$$ but at 1300 points that is a joke level at that level I would just rent.

Carmel85
 

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GENERAL COMMENT: As a routine I would never suggest someone purchase a 1300 point week. This is at the very bottom of the scale and it would significantly limit your options within the system.

RESALE PRICES: I’m not so sure your numbers are reliable. Hyatt just raised their Key West prices again to a point where Platinum (2000 point) units are selling for >$40K. I think you would have a high risk that Hyatt would take a bargain deal on Right of First Refusal.

FINANCIAL ISSUES: The ROI formula approach is difficult to apply to a vacation as there are so many intangibles. An example would be a dollar value of vacationing in high-season vs low-season. If you want to stay in Key West the only resort with 1BR or Studio configuration is Sunset Harbor. That resort has the highest occupancy of any in the Hyatt system. Thus, it will be even more difficult to get a reservation in Key West.

MIDWEEK RESERVATIONS: It will be a real challenge to get sequential short-stay reservations at various HVC resorts.

FULL WEEK v PARTIAL WEEK: A request for a partial week has the same status as a full week. The only thing that affects your status is when you make the request.

MULTIPLE REQUESTS: I would have to reach way back to my statistics class and try to remember how the formula works for sequential events. If there is a 20% probability of any singe Event occurring the probability of both Events occurring would be 20% x 20% = 4% …. I think!

MULTIPLE LOCATION REQUESTS: Each request is distinct for one week at one resort. You can make multiple requests but each one is unique and does not have any “if, and, or” variables.

I hope this helps.
 

GTLINZ

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Thanks Kal. Your answers were crystal clear. Sounds like a request is a request, so partial vs full week does not matter. That is what I needed to know. And I think you are right about successive requests - odds are low. So I just need to focus on getting my initial request for as long as I have points.

One more clarification - the points charts from your website list 3 night weekend stays, 4 night midweek stays and 2 night midweek stays. Does that imply you cannot ask for, say, Sunday-Thursday night at a resort with Sunday checkins? It would seem to me that weekend night reservations wreak havoc with the system since the would cross over 2 home resort weeks on a Sat or Sun checkin resort.
 

Kal

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All the resorts have a little different schedule for stays which are less than a full week. The terminology between "weekend" and "weekday" stays is related to inclusion of a Friday night. Most of it depends on the designated check-in day for a full week. You'll just have to check for the specifics for any resort in question. However, as a general rule a short week stay does not bracket a full weekend. You are correct in that such a stay would wreck havoc because it would cross two distinct ownership weeks.
 

Kal

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...MULTIPLE LOCATION REQUESTS: Each request is distinct for one week at one resort. You can make multiple requests but each one is unique and does not have any “if, and, or” variables....
Upon further thought you can make a request that has multiple features. As an example, you can make an "either/or" request. In this case you would ask for say Week 6 or Week 7. At the moment that one of those weeks becomes available your reservation will be granted and the request for the remaining week will be cancelled. This is done when you don't have enough points to fill both requests.
 

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GENERAL COMMENT: As a routine I would never suggest someone purchase a 1300 point week. This is at the very bottom of the scale and it would significantly limit your options within the system.What if you need a specifiic week like a week 24 in Key West at Sunset Harbor.If this resort has a high owner occupancy rate dosen't it pay to buy the exact season you need even if it's a 1300 or 1400 point week in order to ensure you reservation for that week at that resort ?
 

GTLINZ

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Carmel85 - thanks for the response. I am not sure how Hyatt works, but in general I would tend to not trust what a timeshare salesman would tell me. I trust the HGVC counselors now that I have access to them, but did not before I was an owner. I instead used TUG and other resources for research in deciding what worked best for my situation. I am in the same situation now with HVC and using this forum for what it is designed for. Thanks again.
 

GTLINZ

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Upon further thought you can make a request that has multiple features. As an example, you can make an "either/or" request. In this case you would ask for say Week 6 or Week 7. At the moment that one of those weeks becomes available your reservation will be granted and the request for the remaining week will be cancelled. This is done when you don't have enough points to fill both requests.
Thanks Kal.
Is there a limit to how many weeks you can search for? I know with RCI when I put in a request I can list a large range of times.
 

Carmel85

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Carmel85 - thanks for the response. I am not sure how Hyatt works, but in general I would tend to not trust what a timeshare salesman would tell me. I trust the HGVC counselors now that I have access to them, but did not before I was an owner. I instead used TUG and other resources for research in deciding what worked best for my situation. I am in the same situation now with HVC and using this forum for what it is designed for. Thanks again.
GTLINZ,

I would also not trust a sales person but I would just go to one of the hyatt presentations to get info materials and know how the hyatt system works.

Buy big point values 2200 or 2000 point weeks as you can see from other tug poster the lower values points are really not the at great.

Good LUCK and Happy HYATT Hunting,
Carmel85
 

Kal

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What if you need a specifiic week like a week 24 in Key West at Sunset Harbor.If this resort has a high owner occupancy rate dosen't it pay to buy the exact season you need even if it's a 1300 or 1400 point week in order to ensure you reservation for that week at that resort ?
My recommendations on purchase include these two criteria:

1. Purchase the highest number of points possible.

2. Purchase a specific resort, week and unit that you would enjoy visiting every year into the future. That way you won't be disappointed in the request process.

You are correct to purchase a specific week at Sunset Harbor. That gives you the number of points you want AND more importantly the specific resort. Since Sunset Harbor presents a bit of a challenge because of its high occupancy rate, you're guaranteed your HRPP unit. However, once you decide not to use your 2 BR HRPP unit (or portion thereof) you're into points reservations. With the points system there is no "home resort" preference so you would compete with all other Club memebers. In the worst case, you go to Key West and have an option to stay in a 2BR, 1BR or Studio unit. Not all that bad. ;)

The downside is Sunset Harbor units are difficult to find on the resale market and the prices are significantly higher than some of the other HVC resorts.
 
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Kal

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Thanks Kal.
Is there a limit to how many weeks you can search for? I know with RCI when I put in a request I can list a large range of times.
You can make as many requests as you like. The only problem is the first unit to become available is yours. It may not be your first preference but it could consume your points.
 

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I Just returned from Key West and have to say the Hyatt Sunset Harbor has IMO the best location of all the timeshares in KeyWest. I'm on the boarder tough because the weeks I really want are in Bronze and silver only giving 1300 or 1400 points.I know 2200 point weeks will serve the Hyatt system better but those weeks do not fall when I need to travel so it would always be a request instead of a solid reservation.I'm on the fence just tetering.:D
 

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Transit,


What ever week you pick1300,1400,1880 2000 or 2200 remember all the MF's are the same so why not get a bigger point value then you have more options even though you only want 1300 or 1400 point week with the 2000 or 2200 point week you might get a full 11+ days 4 mid week and then a full 7 day.

I wouldn't sit on the fence to long when Hyatt announces more locations Hyatt will be harder to get.

Carmel85
 

GTLINZ

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I am in the same boat as Transit. I want to go to the Keys in November, and those are bronze weeks. I have read a lot of posts, especially Kal's, and read thru his website. The week I want is problem (since bronze) and I see 2 approaches:
- I want to find a unit I like and use it most years . That leans towards purchasing the exact week/location/unit I want (since w/ Hyatt the actual unit matters), even though it is bronze. The other years I am ok with partial weeks for Carmel or Tahoe (if 4 days or more). If partial week requests are no different than full week requests on the list, then I am ok.
- I also could buy peak Jan-Mar for more points, but would want to trade to Nov. That is more risky - but the locals told me that is low season (Nov - mid Dec). Jan (gold) seems better if I go for more points since I am only two months behind the earliest possible requests for Nov. But I have less control over the unit I get.
I do want Sunset Harbor. I stayed at the Galleon next door to SH, which got me started looking at Key West, which got me looking at Hyatt. I like being next to Mallory Square and in the middle of everything.
 

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Transit,


What ever week you pick1300,1400,1880 2000 or 2200 remember all the MF's are the same so why not get a bigger point value then you have more options even though you only want 1300 or 1400 point week with the 2000 or 2200 point week you might get a full 11+ days 4 mid week and then a full 7 day.

I wouldn't sit on the fence to long when Hyatt announces more locations Hyatt will be harder to get.

Carmel85
Schools in South Florida finish up around June 5th .I'd like to travel to Key West every year around week 23-25 .The Sunset harbor resort has a high owner occupancy rate it may be hard to reserve the weeks I want if I get a 2200 point week.From what I've read this resort may be harder to book specific weeks than other Hyatt resorts.
 

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Obviously the posters here are doing very good homework. We're now really looking at the fine points of the system. You seem to accept the fact that you will be paying a premium in terms of $MF/point so we'll set that issue aside. You also seem to say you will NEVER want to travel to resorts during that resort's high-season weeks. That would be okay for the near term, but it also locks out future changes in vacation style.

So now we need to review the probability of getting your reservation requests filled. Let's look at Sunset Harbor during the low season. When we refer to "high occupancy", all that means is the resort is full. It doesn't mean that an HVC member cannot get in on points. The high occupancy by HRPP owners generally occurs during the high season and the rate runs somewhere around 40%. That leaves a large number of units available to the Club during low-season weeks. Therefore, if you get your points in the general week just before you want to travel, your in the best position to have the points in your account when the units become available. That's a nice advantage over other Club members especially those who own high value weeks. This all works fine if you want to travel to other HVC resorts where their low-season is in sync with the weeks you own. The further those resorts are out of sync, the lower your chance to easily get a confirmed reservation. Just review the "Resort Weeks" chart to see what it means.

The cost of purchase is then the remaining issue. Sunset Harbor is expensive, but my feeling is current HSH owners of low point weeks always seem interested in selling their week and buying a high point week. That helps for your target resale opportunities.
 

Transit

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The options between the 2200 and 1300-1400 are being weighed the press for the lower point option is they seem to move quickly on the resale market if I ever wanted to bulk up i could alway sell with minimal loss.
 

GTLINZ

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The high occupancy by HRPP owners generally occurs during the high season and the rate runs somewhere around 40%. That leaves a large number of units available to the Club during low-season weeks. Therefore, if you get your points in the general week just before you want to travel, your in the best position to have the points in your account when the units become available. That's a nice advantage over other Club members especially those who own high value weeks. This all works fine if you want to travel to other HVC resorts where their low-season is in sync with the weeks you own. The further those resorts are out of sync, the lower your chance to easily get a confirmed reservation.
Thanks Kal, that makes sense. WHEN is very important - I thought so but it sounds imperative to have the best odds if not making a HRPP reservation.

My two target travel times are Sept for Carmel, Tahoe or Sedona, and Nov for Key West, with Key West being most important. Carmel is second and a week is preferred. Multiple reasons for both, being weather and crowds - but based on past experience that is what I like. Buying the unit I want, 2 br SH in Nov, puts me two months behind on Sept travel request on West coast and leaves me 150 point short of a Carmel 1br week. Partial Sedona weeks or Tahoe weeks are ok.

Based on the importance you place on WHEN you have your points, and the HRPPs I want - are my odds better, with this scenario, to:
A) Buy Nov SH 2br bronze, be 2 month behind curve for sept partial week request. but have HRPP I want most
B) Buy Sept Carmel 1br Diamond (2 brs RARE), be 2 months ahead of most important Key West reservation, extra 150 points covers DIA 1br with 2nd preferred HRPP

If B, is resale purchase for a 1br DIA carmel going to be significantly higher than SH 2br BRONZE?
 

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...Based on the importance you place on WHEN you have your points, and the HRPPs I want - are my odds better, with this scenario, to:
A) Buy Nov SH 2br bronze, be 2 month behind curve for sept partial week request. but have HRPP I want most
B) Buy Sept Carmel 1br Diamond (2 brs RARE), be 2 months ahead of most important Key West reservation, extra 150 points covers DIA 1br with 2nd preferred HRPP

If B, is resale purchase for a 1br DIA carmel going to be significantly higher than SH 2br BRONZE?
I would say either option would work. As long as you have viable points in your account when the requested unit becomes available (i.e 6-months prior to occupancy) you would have a good chance. The Carmel units would largely become available on say 3/1 while the SH units would become available on say 5/1. In either case you would have CUP points to use when units from both resorts are released.

Hyatt's selling price for Carmel is generally 2-3x higher than Sunset Harbor. I don't know specific numbers for the seasons but Sunset would be the lower price.
 

Floridaski

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You can always put extra points into II

We own both Hyatt and Grand Cayman weeks, so I always have more then I can usually use. I NEVER let one Hyatt point go to waste. When we purchased the owner had points in II, Points in LCUP and new points coming in one month. I still have points in II and they come in very handy for destinations like Whistler or other locations that Hyatt does not have properties. The Hyatt points will pull Marriotts and I even pulled a DVC resort for a 2008 Holiday and it was a one bedroom. II does not get ANY Hyatt points until the owners request is filled, so if it is deposited - you stand a very high chance of getting the unit. The Disney trip, I canceled the search and the Hyatt rep called the next day with a unit that had just be deposited that morning. I just was not sure we wanted to spend the Holiday away from home, so I let it go.

So the short story is, if you can afford it and have the vacation time buy at least 1800 points, 2000 if you can. You just have to think about what is right for you and where your travels may take you.

I also agree to go to a Hyatt presentation before you buy RESALE. We actually went to 3 before we finally decided to buy. We already had the Grand Cayman weeks, really did not need more - but we live in Florida and we can drive to so many of their locations. We stayed at 3 different Hyatt timeshares and we liked every single location. The Hyatt sales presentation will answer many of your questions, plus you will get a great vacation for a minimal cost. Good luck!
 

GTLINZ

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Lots to think about. Thanks to all for the posts. Tug is a great resource and I appreciate everyone's input.

I know how to work the HGVC system and think I have a better feel for HVC now. It is important to me to have flexiblity and to know how to work within the system. Hopefully we will be in a position to buy later this year. If we can afford more points, we may opt to get a 2br gold/plat/dia season at another location in Sept-Nov (Sedona Pinion is one of the few with peak weeks in that timeframe). If we can't, I think SH Nov will do fine in combination with our HGVC options and would be a low cost entrance to HVC.

Thanks again...
 

Floridaski

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Try Beach House Key West

You may want to consider purchasing the Beach House in Key West, it has the lowest cost per point ratio. If you are really wanting to get into Key West in Nov - you should not have any problem. We have stayed at Sunset Harbor with our Beach House points without any issues. You can more then likely get more for your dollar at the Beach House. Good luck!
 

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Another Thought

I do not have a lot of vacation time or a lot of cash to invest. HGVC has served me well. I hope you guys can give me insight into how well HVC will work considering my approach to using it. THANKS AND LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR REPLIES ! :)[/QUOTE]

Hi GTLINZ - :hi:

What I hear you saying is that:

1) Money matters, cost differences are important
2) You don't have a lot of time at this point to vacation (maybe more when you retire?)
3) You have questions about trading priorities.

Your 3rd question was answered very articulately from KAL. With regards to your first two issues let me propose an “out of the box” approach this. First let me state that not everyone needs 2950 points. However, I agree with most everyone on this board that more points (1880, 2000) will give you more flexibility and opportunity to get into the resorts you when you want. Also, MFs add up and over the long term they are the real costs of the deal. But, due to time constrains you may not be able to use all the days the 2000 points would allow. Therefore I would consider purchasing a resale week from an authorized Hyatt re-sale broker at a resort that Hyatt no longer has a sale desk at. This has 3 advantages,

1) You can calmly negotiate (as opposed to crazy bidding) the best price for your unit
2) Hyatt controls ROFR so buying from an authorized resale broker helps with passing ROFR. If Hyatt invokes ROFR then they have to sell it again through the resale broker
3) You can exchange for Hyatt Gold Passport hotel points EOY .

Now before I get flamed about points being a “bad deal”. Let me state that often hotel points CAN be a bad deal, I understand the economics of trading a 2 bedroom for 6 or 7 nights in a hotel room. HOWEVER, it is not always a bad deal. If you can’t use your week it’s better to convert to hotel points than lose the week.

I view hotel points as a free insurance policy. If my life won’t allow me to travel, or travel much, I can convert my unit into points and they never expire. Also, hotel points are easier to use (more locations, less restrictions, check in any day of the week, leave when you want, no split week fees, and no reservation fees). Also, I can use points for car rentals and other items.

Usually one needs to buy from Hyatt and pay top dollar for the hotel points option, but not always. Bying from an authorized Hyatt resale broker, you still get the lowest resale price and a point conversation option.

If you would like some advice on who and where to buy resale, please inbox me. Thanks.

-TJ :D

PS - I am not an authorized Hyatt resale agent or affiliated with one
 
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Kal

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You may want to consider purchasing the Beach House in Key West, it has the lowest cost per point ratio. If you are really wanting to get into Key West in Nov - you should not have any problem. We have stayed at Sunset Harbor with our Beach House points without any issues. You can more then likely get more for your dollar at the Beach House. Good luck!
If the poster is clearly operating on points, the Beach House would be a good purchase. However, he seems to want the guarantee of getting into Key West in something other than a 2 BR unit. Since only Sunset Harbor has the option of 1 BR or Studio, owning at Sunset will satisfy both goals.

BTW, Hyatt is now pricing the Beach House the same as Windward Pointe.
 
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