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Buying into Elara 2BR

chromeo

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I have family in Las Vegas and a small kid. I am interested in a week in a 2BR Elara (or similar) in the summer for maybe the next few years.

I would be open to renting a 2BR reservation, but they seem rare on the rental sites. Maybe there aren't very many?

I would be open to buying a deed to hold for a few years at Elara. Is this a terrible way to accomplish what I am trying to do? I am worried it would be hard to sell or transfer costs would be significant.

I'd also consider Valdoro. We also have family in the Breck area and that could be useful to us. Would it be impossible to book Elara (or similar) 2BR with Valdoro?

I am based in a state with no timeshares and own a significant amount of DVC, which I am considering selling because of Disney's cost and general policies. I am happy with my DVC, because of the easy ability to sell. I consider myself good at the DVC system, which is the only reason I'm considering another system.
 
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Nowaker

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I would be open to buying a deed to hold for a few years at Elara. Is this a terrible way to accomplish what I am trying to do? I am worried it would be hard to sell or transfer costs would be significant.
It's an okay idea. Elara isn't hard to acquire or hard to sell. Elara 2 BR Grand has low maintenance fees, so it's a good deed to have. It's comparable with LV Boulevard, LV Paradise, and some LV Trump (Studio Plus Platinum). Just be aware that listing prices you see on sellingtimeshares.net and other brokers include broker fee, which for these lower point non-Platinum deeds is the majority of the price. For example, 2 BR Gold at Blvd or Paradise is typically listed at $1.5K, but anything between $0 and $500 goes to the seller. If you'd like to recoup the costs of your Elara purchase, you'd have to acquire it privately, and then sell or give away privately. Be aware of closing and post-closing costs of around $1.5K when acquiring any HGVC deed - this cost isn't recoverable in anyway, and isn't part of the listing price (except for some Ebay listings that explicitly state otherwise).

If we're talking 2 BR Platinum at Elara, Flamingo, Blvd, Paradise, these are very good deeds that sell for $4K to $6K. Note however that even these desirable deeds don't appreciate value over time. See http://rofr.net/ - HGVC on the Boulevard - to see 2 BR Plat went typically for $7-$8K several years ago, and goes for $5K-$6K today. Rather, they slightly decline in its value, without even accounting for inflation.

However, you should consider the value of your constant use of HGVC points over the years. Sure, if you "invest" $6K total to acquire Flamingo 2 BR Platinum, and then sell it for $3K 5 years later, you lost $3K in equity value, but meanwhile, you paid around $6.1K in MFs (SUM 0...4: $1142 * MF_inflation_rate ^ year_number) in MFs, gained 5 * 11,200 pts = 56,000 pts, and these points bought you what would cost $25K on hilton.com, or $15K on hotels.com to book somewhat comparable accommodations (they wouldn't quite match but would be close). Let's say $20K to be reasonable about it. When accounted for everything:

-$6K deed purchase incl. closing, post-closing
-$6.1K maintenance fees for 5 years, assuming 3% MF increase every year
+$20K value of received accommodations from HGVC points
+$3K deed sale
= +$10.9K

You come on top, but obviously, only if you look at what you'd pay for comps.

One warning for Elara resale purchases: be on the lookout for no-points deeds at Elara. These are old Westgate deeds that cannot be enrolled for points in HGVC. If you're fine with that, cool, you'll acquire a deed like that for free, and often closing will be covered for you, but you'll have a hard time selling... erm... giving it away... erm... paying someone to take if from you in the future. They're not desired at all, so you basically have to pay someone to take them from you if you want to get rid of them.

Would it be impossible to book Elara (or similar) 2BR with Valdoro?

Points are points. Elara isn't busy so you can book anything at Elara with points. Elara deed as good as any to book at Elara. You can have Blvd, Paradise, or even SeaWorld in Silver season.

One of the two most important thing in HGVC timesharing is MF-per-points economics. Your goal is to get the ratio as low as possible. And then there's acquisition cost. Deeds with low MFpp are priced higher, so it takes longer to break even (compared to buying cheaper). For example Blvd 2 BR Gold is free + $1.5K closing, and you get 8000 points for $944 MF, while Blvd 2 BR Plat is $5K + $1.5K, and you get 11200 points for $944 MF. It takes a lot of time before "investing" into 2 BR Plat pays off compared to getting 2 BR Gold cheaply.

However, if you'd like to have home week access to Valdoro, which is very busy and very hard to book with points, you should consider Valdoro ownership for that purpose. It's hard (but not impossible) to book Valdoro with points. This is the second most important thing in HGVC timesharing - get a home week if a resort is almost impossible to book with regular points in your desired season.

To summarize, there's two aspects at play in HGVC timesharing:

1. MF-per-points economics for booking anything that isn't super busy.
2. Home week value - where you pay a premium in MFs to get a priority booking window for most desired units in most desired seasons (typically, large units with ocean views [if applicable] during holidays and summer break)
 

chromeo

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That response was incredibly helpful. WOW WOW. A few searches quickly ruled out Breck. Not competitive with the Airbnbs, Valdoro is out.

Flamingo and Trump and Paradise won't work for us, but points are points? I know DVC has some categories that only have a handful of units, so they are impossible to book, even with home points. I can't find an inventory list anywhere to even know if these Elara rooms are realistic with generic points. It sounds like Elara home points don't help unless they are specifically the unit+week you want. I don't even see a Gold Elara large unit contract for sale anywhere...

The whole summer is Gold. It looks like a Gold 2-3BR is 7-8K points. I'd absolutely be willing to buy the more points "worse value" view/room. If points are points, maybe I just need to scrounge up 8K free points and sell them in 5 years. Time to get some spreadsheets!
 

Lodemia

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Damian @Nowaker 's post is spot on. I own two weeks of 2BR gold on the Boulevard in Vegas, and I am kicking myself for not getting platinum weeks at the time. It's a really cheap way to accumulate points.

FWIW - I have never stayed in Vegas using points, I prefer the Venetian or Bellagio, but to each their own ;-)
 

chromeo

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FWIW - I have never stayed in Vegas using points, I prefer the Venetian or Bellagio, but to each their own ;-)
I agree, but I have a small kid and family who live in Vegas, so it's kind of a hybrid kid thing. A hotel room was pretty miserable. We really needed laundry and a kitchen, and will be doing this for the forseeable future. We will never stay with the Vegas family, but visiting is important, and we have babysitters.

Heck, it looks like I could even book 4-5 nights or something with some generic points.

After spending $400/night at Mandalay for a decent hotel room, that's looking pretty good.
 

Nowaker

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Flamingo and Trump and Paradise won't work for us, but points are points? I know DVC has some categories that only have a handful of units, so they are impossible to book, even with home points. I can't find an inventory list anywhere to even know if these Elara rooms are realistic with generic points. It sounds like Elara home points don't help unless they are specifically the unit+week you want. I don't even see a Gold Elara large unit contract for sale anywhere...
Ebay or sellingtimeshares.net. Also Facebook groups.
 

Nowaker

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FWIW - I have never stayed in Vegas using points, I prefer the Venetian or Bellagio, but to each their own ;-)
Meanwhile, I booked 10 nights total for Spring Break 2023 in Vegas: 5 nights in 3 BR in Elara, 5 nights in 3 BR Plus in Blvd. :) Parents + 3 kids + grandma (flying from Poland to join us). I originally had 5 nights in MarBrisa, 3 nights in Vegas, 2 nights in Hilton hotels in Los Angeles, but the grandma decided to join us, therefore I switched it all to Vegas for simplicity.
 

jabberwocky

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Aside from week 52, Vegas weeks are pretty easy to get - and if you’re looking at summer it will be no problem for the most part I expect.

We own at the Blvd (2BR Plat) but we’ve used our points for a 4 bedroom at Park City. I just got back from a three night stay at the Flamingo location (free access to the Flamingo GO pool is nice if you don’t have kids with you :p). We have an upcoming stay at the Elara in December (4 bed for four nights).

Overall we’ve found the system very flexible and easy to use - but you will have to do some planning.

You should also weigh the cost of hotels. $400 for Mandalay is probably too much. Personally if I’m by myself I prefer to stay at the Wynn - I usually get offers of $59-119/night + resort fees. With family along I want multiple bedrooms and in room laundry.
 

CalGalTraveler

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If you need laundry. Suggest you stay at one of the other HGVs in Vegas. Elara has strange all-in-one washer dryers that do not work. If you have a car you can laundromat, but other HGVCs should have on floor or in-room. Kitchen at Elara are fantastic though.
 

Nowaker

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Aside from week 52, Vegas weeks are pretty easy to get - and if you’re looking at summer it will be no problem for the most part I expect.
I was there in week 51, 52, and 1, and booked only 7 weeks ahead. No matter what week, you can get it.
 

Janann

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Thanks for bringing me back to my 20s LOL. I'm pretty sure that even if they do a complete sh job, Vegas will do the rest, it is so dry!
Not really. One of those "two in one" washer-dryer things refused to drain, and would not unlock. I eventually got Maintenance to unlock it, and then I was left with a bunch of wet clothes the morning we were leaving. I spun out the water in the one shared washer in the building, and partially dried the clothes before going home. I wasn't happy to bring home wet clothes in a plastic kitchen trash bag. :mad:
 

Nowaker

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Not really. One of those "two in one" washer-dryer things refused to drain, and would not unlock. I eventually got Maintenance to unlock it, and then I was left with a bunch of wet clothes the morning we were leaving. I spun out the water in the one shared washer in the building, and partially dried the clothes before going home. I wasn't happy to bring home wet clothes in a plastic kitchen trash bag. :mad:
Your clothes would have been wet whether your dryer malfunctioned or not. The reality of Elara washer-dryers.
 

chromeo

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So let me know if my thinking is on track.

I still think I can use this, because Las Vegas is a destination I will be visiting for the foreseeable future, and I need a larger unit with WD/fridge with a kid. I have been frustrated with how opaque these dues are. Shouldn't that be clearer? And there seem to be a lot of junk fees, even after closing.

So, let's say I buy 8,000 Seaworld points, dues will be cheaper for platinum. To use them at Elara, I have to pay fees to book the reservation at all ($79) and I have to pay fees to bank the points I have left over to next year ($104). If I change the reservation, I assume there is a fee, as there would be if I added a few days on the beginning or end of the trip.

So, with those 8,000 points, I could maybe book a 3BR or one of the 2BR units in Elara in August nine months ahead of time. I assume the pricier views are the last to go. I could book 10 days or 5 days or whatever. I could bank the rest of the points, and they have to be used the next year.

Downside is it will be difficult to unload Seaworld. I might just lose the money I paid for it, and my home priority is useless. Other than price and resale and dues, it doesn't matter if I buy Elara or Seaworld or Boulevard. All of them will book at Elara at 9 months the same, unless using deeded week.
 

dayooper

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So, let's say I buy 8,000 Seaworld points, dues will be cheaper for platinum. To use them at Elara, I have to pay fees to book the reservation at all ($79) and I have to pay fees to bank the points I have left over to next year ($104). If I change the reservation, I assume there is a fee, as there would be if I added a few days on the beginning or end of the trip.

I would stay away from a 2 bedroom gold at Seaworld. The MF to point ratio is very poor and there are much better deals for around the same price (maybe a bit more). The sweet spot is a 2 bedroom platinum at a resort with decent MF’s. Flamingo has a decent MF ratio and the price is generally lower than the other Vegas resorts. If you are really looking for gold (inexpensive), the Boulevard or Paradise is the way to go.

Club reservations. Fees are $59 (online) and anytime before 60 days, you can change your reservation for free till your hearts content, even changing resorts!

So, with those 8,000 points, I could maybe book a 3BR or one of the 2BR units in Elara in August nine months ahead of time. I assume the pricier views are the last to go. I could book 10 days or 5 days or whatever. I could bank the rest of the points, and they have to be used the next year.

8000 points is 1 week in a standard 2 bedroom during gold season. You could book a shorter time in a 3 bedroom in the gold season or a week in a 2 bedroom. If you take shorter stays and go during the week, you can get more nights, but that gold season is pretty limiting.

Unless you are purchasing in a location where you want to go most of the time, don’t worry about your home week. Go with the best MF per point ratio in your budget.
 

chromeo

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I don't plan to hold this forever, maybe 5-10 years. So, I don't think I can make up the difference from the very helpful math from buying more expensive upfront. I prefer the FL system in general, but I guess Nevada will do for a while. I researched this a lot when I bought into Disney. Any of the Florida properties a good sweet spot?

Elara seems to have a lot of fussy upgrade categories. I'd actually like to buy the more points units. Is that going to be impossible or easier because it costs more?
 

chromeo

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I made my spreadsheets! I have plans y'all!

Can someone give me a guess about availability at Elara for the 2-3 BR rooms? Like is there anything for a weekend a month out? Couple months out? Or does this have to be booked at 9 months? I know this changes all the time, just looking for a ballpark.
 

Mr Smith

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I own at Elara and book at Elara a lot. I never use my home week because I rarely stay there an entire week so I always pay the reservation fee.
I bought the platinum 1 bedroom grand plus units they have there. The advantage of that room is you get 12,480 points but only have to pay maintenance fees for a one bedroom. The standard platinum 2 bedroom is 13,440 points per year but you pay the higher maintenance fees. Basically paying 30% more maintenance fees for less than 10% more points. If you don’t intend to book an entire week it works very well. There will be a higher buy in for a unit like this as they are in higher demand. If you think you will hold it over 5 years it should be the better option as it will be easy to sell and you will get the majority of the purchase price back.

If you book one of the corner 2 bedroom units they have the better stacked washer/dryer units that work well.

I have always been able to book at the 9 month mark to get almost any unit I want. Elara typically has a lot of availability inside 60 days if it isn’t a high demand week.
 

Nowaker

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Can someone give me a guess about availability at Elara for the 2-3 BR rooms? Like is there anything for a weekend a month out? Couple months out? Or does this have to be booked at 9 months? I know this changes all the time, just looking for a ballpark.

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chromeo

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WOW THANK YOU. That looks like a lot of work. Better than I expected, actually. No weekends in the last-minute-ish bookings in the next few months, but 5+ months seems to be wide open. And last minute weekdays are there, so this is something I can use.

Even availability for CES for 2023, which is surprising. The higher point rooms go last, works for me. This might be a workable strategy!
 

Nowaker

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be wide open. And last minute weekdays are there
And weekdays cost half of what weekend days cost, and flights are cheaper, so it's a win-win. (Unlike in casinos where you're mathematically guaranteed to lose xD)
 

chromeo

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Does Elara charge resort or parking fees for owners? There seems to some mixed information out there. Maybe the resort fee is for cash guests?
 

dayooper

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Does Elara charge resort or parking fees for owners? There seems to some mixed information out there. Maybe the resort fee is for cash guests?

No, they do not charge parking or resort fees for those that book with points or open season cash. If you book with cash (outside the open season program) or exchange into the resort from RCI, you will be charged the fees (even if you are an owner).
 

chromeo

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I pitched the math, two Florida and two Vegas resorts, a hair away from each other in $/point, assuming holding 5-10 years and they are worth zero at the end. Other half will not bite. I think scared and considers this sleazy. Maybe fair. And doesn't want to be stuck with some random week in a hotel we wouldn't step foot in but would have a contract for.

I think I am going to try to rent Elara from one of the services for the summer, looks like the pricy room I want should be possible. Maybe that will be enough to get us on board... If my math is right, renting isn't too far off the cost of buying anyway.
 
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PigsDad

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If my math is right, renting isn't too far off the cost of buying anyway.
For LV, Orlando and the more "common" places, that is most likely true. Where a HGV ownership can really make a huge difference in your lodging costs are some of the more "uncommon" places, such as ski location during peak ski season (Breckenridge or Park City) or ocean front units in Hawaii, South Carolina and SW Florida. If you use those locations, owning can save you a significant amount over renting.

Kurt
 
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