[2008] Bought at Massanutten - tell me how stupid I am.

[jasenj1]

The wife and I went up to Massanutten to take advantage of their marketing dollars - we had no intention of buying. This was about our sixth getaway weekend on timeshare developers' dimes. We live about 3 1/2 hours from Massanutten, near Williamsburg.

They offered us Woodstone - Casa de Campo, new construction, occupancy in 2010, with 2 RCI bonus weeks annually until the unit is finished and one annual RCI bonus week thereafter, it is an even year unit, week 24, 2 bedroom lock-off, sleeps 8; maintenance fee is $340 every two years. They also added in their "Gold Card" which essentially gives you usage rights to the resort facilities - rec centers, pools, the Western Slope (their wilderness area), and discounts on lift tickets, hotels, golf, and a few other things.

The "Gold Card" is what hooked me. We take one or two ski weekends a year. Being able to get 1/2 off on a hotel - or even book a getaway weekend condo - and 20% off on lift tickets, plus the access to all the amenities seemed like a big enough carrot to get me to part with ... $10,000!

As a pure timeshare unit, I know we paid way too much. As a trader we paid way too much; as a unit we'll use we paid way too much. But, as membership to the resort, and as an incentive to get our butts out there to use it, I feel we did "OK". Not great, but unlike all the other places we've been (Florida, Williamsburg, VA Beach) Mass. offers activities and facilities we will take advantage of throughout the year. That is why I bought it - to force/encourage us to go out to the mountains more often and do the things that Mass. has to offer - oh yeah, and we're part of the timeshare cult now, too. I am much more outdoorsy than my wife, and I hope/expect that having a restaurant, heated pool, etc. over the hill will allow us to do more camping (on the Western Slope) than I've been able to do so far.

You may now scold me for paying way too much and being a fool. :hysterical:

- Jasen.

 

[beanb41]

So what you are saying is that you have invested $10,000 in future holidays and the Real Estate is being thrown in for $340 per year.
Isnt this what Timeshare is really all about - Investing in your holidays not Real Estate.
You seem content with what you have invested in and can obviously still sleep at night so perhaps you havent been foolish at all.

 

[laura1957]

We live on the Eastern Shore of Va. We also bought at Massanutten from the developer - 4 years ago, and even though we know we paid too much - we don't really regret it. It got us into timesharing and we still are very happy with Massanutten itself. I am in the process of buying a week 24 at Summit (resale), we already own a winter ski week at Summit (bought onsite) and a floating white week at Eagle Trace Killy Court (bought off Ebay cheap) Being within driving distance, and all the activities and everything onsite definately make it worth it to us.

 

[sjuhawk_jd]

Worth of Gold Card!

The wife and I went up to Massanutten to take advantage of their marketing dollars - we had no intention of buying. This was about our sixth getaway weekend on timeshare developers' dimes. We live about 3 1/2 hours from Massanutten, near Williamsburg.

They offered us Woodstone - Casa de Campo, new construction, occupancy in 2010, with 2 RCI bonus weeks annually until the unit is finished and one annual RCI bonus week thereafter, it is an even year unit, week 24, 2 bedroom lock-off, sleeps 8; maintenance fee is $340 every two years. They also added in their "Gold Card" which essentially gives you usage rights to the resort facilities - rec centers, pools, the Western Slope (their wilderness area), and discounts on lift tickets, hotels, golf, and a few other things.

The "Gold Card" is what hooked me. We take one or two ski weekends a year. Being able to get 1/2 off on a hotel - or even book a getaway weekend condo - and 20% off on lift tickets, plus the access to all the amenities seemed like a big enough carrot to get me to part with ... $10,000!

As a pure timeshare unit, I know we paid way too much. As a trader we paid way too much; as a unit we'll use we paid way too much. But, as membership to the resort, and as an incentive to get our butts out there to use it, I feel we did "OK". Not great, but unlike all the other places we've been (Florida, Williamsburg, VA Beach) Mass. offers activities and facilities we will take advantage of throughout the year. That is why I bought it - to force/encourage us to go out to the mountains more often and do the things that Mass. has to offer - oh yeah, and we're part of the timeshare cult now, too. I am much more outdoorsy than my wife, and I hope/expect that having a restaurant, heated pool, etc. over the hill will allow us to do more camping (on the Western Slope) than I've been able to do so far.

You may now scold me for paying way too much and being a fool. :hysterical:

- Jasen.

If you buy resale, this unit is worth about $500 (even year). Did you compare how much the gold card will cost you if you buy resale and then try to acquire gold card for life or even gold card per visit. You are wasting about $500/year (opportunity cost of $9500 or so) to get the gold card. If the gold card will easily save you that much each year than it is good deal (assuming gold card can not be acquired at a lower cost if you buy resale).

 

[jasenj1]

If you buy resale, this unit is worth about $500 (even year). Did you compare how much the gold card will cost you if you buy resale and then try to acquire gold card for life or even gold card per visit. You are wasting about $500/year (opportunity cost of $9500 or so) to get the gold card. If the gold card will easily save you that much each year than it is good deal (assuming gold card can not be acquired at a lower cost if you buy resale).

That is a good point. The salesman said the Gold Card cost ~$6000 to buy plus ~$700/yr dues - that is what he said they charge the people who own homes on the mountain. I expect/hope the Gold Card to save me ~$150 per ski visit, plus the added amenities - rec center - that I would not have if staying at a hotel near some other ski resort.

I'm also hoping the annual bonus week turns out to be a useful perk.

I hope our story turns out like Laura's above.

- Jasen.

 

[laura1957]

That is a good point. The salesman said the Gold Card cost ~$6000 to buy plus ~$700/yr dues - that is what he said they charge the people who own homes on the mountain. I expect/hope the Gold Card to save me ~$150 per ski visit, plus the added amenities - rec center - that I would not have if staying at a hotel near some other ski resort.

I'm also hoping the annual bonus week turns out to be a useful perk.

I hope our story turns out like Laura's above.

- Jasen.

I am very happy with Massanutten and also RCI, but we have NEVER used any of our bonus weeks!! We do use many RCI last calls so we feel we do get our money's worth without them. At Massanutten we have stayed at Eagle Trace, Summit, Woodstone and Mountainside Villas and have always been happy with the accomadations and the resort in general. We find that the activity card saves us more than the gold card ever has, though my stepdaughter used hers a few times. Usually we go in the spring/fall - have also been there skiing. We are happy enough there that even with our 2 weeks already owned we purchased the Summit summer week since there are never any last calls for June. We will probably dispose of at least one of the other 2 though since the new one is a 4 bedroom lockout.

 

[pjrose]

So what you are saying is that you have invested $10,000 in future holidays and the Real Estate is being thrown in for $340 per year.
Isnt this what Timeshare is really all about - Investing in your holidays not Real Estate.
You seem content with what you have invested in and can obviously still sleep at night so perhaps you havent been foolish at all.

I'm with beanb41.

Is that $340 MF every other year (presumably subject to going up)?

Do the bonus weeks require you to deposit your own week or are you getting the bonus week every year plus your EOY year?

I don't know about the $10K, but the EOY MF sounds low. With an annual 1-2 week vacation that sounds good to me.

As you noted, it's an "incentive to get our butts out there to use it" I am sure that we wouldn't take annual beach vacations if we didn't have the ongoing commitment/availability of a beach TS!

 

[Miss Marty]

Woodstone at Massanutten KE


Woodstone Meadows new unit configuration is Casa de Campo
(Country House). These units are two-bedroom units sleeping 8
which can be locked out to 2 one-bedroom units each sleeping 4.

These units are outside of the "Kettle" and close to the Woodstone Recreation Center and Golf Course. The units check-in on Friday or
Sunday, depending upon the unit number.

K: King Bed - Full Kitchen - Whirlpool Tub
E: Queen Bed - Partial Kitchen
Laundry Room - No Washer/Dryer in units

Real Estate Tax 2007* - $11.14
Annual Maintenance Fee 2008 - $340.00

 

[jasenj1]

I'm with beanb41.

Is that $340 MF every other year (presumably subject to going up)?

Yes.

Do the bonus weeks require you to deposit your own week or are you getting the bonus week every year plus your EOY year?

I'm not certain, but I don't think we have to deposit to get the bonus week. My understanding is we get the bonus every year plus our EOY. And we can split the unit to two 1/4s, so in theory we could have a week every year using the lockout.

I don't know about the $10K, but the EOY MF sounds low.

Agreed. The MF is $170/year or $340 EOY. Compared to other presentations we've seen, it is a low MF.

With an annual 1-2 week vacation that sounds good to me.

Thanks.

As you noted, it's an "incentive to get our butts out there to use it" I am sure that we wouldn't take annual beach vacations if we didn't have the ongoing commitment/availability of a beach TS!

Agreed. My wife's sister's family has a timeshare and they NEVER use it. Don't trade it, don't rent it, don't do anything but pay $$$ into it. The sister says when her husband gets out of the Navy, or when the kids get older, when, when, when. Whenever we talk about TS or vacations, the wife and I mock them for pouring so much $$$ down the drain. Now we get to put OUR money where our mouthes are, and see how well we manage this new resource/commitment.

- Jasen.

 

[beanb41]

Jason your last post has convinced me that you dont need scolding at all.
Enjoy your holidays for many years to come.
Use this forum and others to get the best out of your holiday investment.
As I said earlier Timeshare is an investment in a holiday and 30 years down track when your kids/grandkids are using your timeshare units if you cant, the $10k will appear insignificant.

 

[tombo]

[/QUOTE]The "Gold Card" is what hooked me. We take one or two ski weekends a year. Being able to get 1/2 off on a hotel - or even book a getaway weekend condo - and 20% off on lift tickets, plus the access to all the amenities seemed like a big enough carrot to get me to part with ... $10,000!
[/QUOTE]

You can probably buy a week for around $500 on ebay, that leaves $9500 in the bank to draw interest.
If you earn $400 a year in interest, that will cover a lot of 20%discounted lift tickets. Their "1/2 off on hotels" probably is no cheaper than you can get on priceline or travelocity (salesman do lie). The amenities at the ski resort itself and at any hotel you stay at might be acceptable since most of your waking hours will be on the ski slopes, making access to Massanutten's amenities unecessary. If you go to Redweek.com there are many, many weeks for rent including a 4th of July week at the Summitt for $700, and you get to use all of the amentities if you are staying there. You can also buy 2 weeks there on the cheap for about $9000 less than the $10,000 paid. Finally I have seen many Massanutten weeks listed on extra vacations and last calls for very cheap prices giving you tons of access to the resort and amenities each year.

If you started this post because you feel like you made a mistake, you are hopefully within the recission period and can cancel the sale. If you feel it is a good purchase for the price, then that is all that matters, it is a good deal for you. Congratulations on your purchase, and I hope you enjoy a lifetime of great vacations at Massanutten.

 

[jasenj1]

Thanks for the carefully thought out counterpoint. This is the type of discussion I like - and why I started the thread.

You can probably buy a week for around $500 on ebay, that leaves $9500 in the bank to draw interest.

Check. But that interest needs to chase inflation, too. So a 5% rate loses to inflation after a while - assuming the interest earned (and no more) is all spent on vacation costs. The % discount tracks inflation.

If you earn $400 a year in interest, that will cover a lot of 20%discounted lift tickets. Their "1/2 off on hotels" probably is no cheaper than you can get on priceline or travelocity (salesman do lie).

I anticipate buying at least 3 lift tickets at ~$50 per, more if friends come with us (assuming I can buy tickets for others); Costco usually has good deals on tickets, too. So I'll give you that the ticket discount is not great.

During ski season, we have found it difficult to find cheap hotel rooms. Staying on the mountain (vs 1/2 hr or more away), with little hassle vs hunting for rates, is a good benefit to me. Worth more than the pure dollar amount.

The amenities at the ski resort itself and at any hotel you stay at might be acceptable since most of your waking hours will be on the ski slopes, making access to Massanutten's amenities unecessary.

Access to an indoor pool, hot tub, sauna, and rec facilities are VERY nice amenities - especially after a full day on the slopes. And those are not available at hotels. The slopes close at dark so there are several hours to be filled before bedtime - especially with children.

If you go to Redweek.com there are many, many weeks for rent including a 4th of July week at the Summitt for $700, and you get to use all of the amentities if you are staying there. You can also buy 2 weeks there on the cheap for about $9000 less than the $10,000 paid. Finally I have seen many Massanutten weeks listed on extra vacations and last calls for very cheap prices giving you tons of access to the resort and amenities each year.

This is the area that I have no experience with. REALLY crunching the numbers on what buying some second-hand units, and/or renting directly would cost - over the long term, as opposed to the overpriced single unit with a bonus week. I'm looking at using/keeping this timeshare thing for 20+ years.

Clearly from the pure timeshare point of view, second-hand is cheaper. But over 20+ years is access to the facilities and discounts worth the premium? If life changes and we move away from the area, that access benefit goes away.

If you started this post because you feel like you made a mistake, you are hopefully within the recission period and can cancel the sale. If you feel it is a good purchase for the price, then that is all that matters, it is a good deal for you. Congratulations on your purchase, and I hope you enjoy a lifetime of great vacations at Massanutten.

I started this post to see how big a mistake I made. As you point out, from a purely $$$ angle we paid more than we could have. There is always a better deal. I think of it like buying a new car. A new car loses a bunch of value the second you drive it off the lot, why would anyone ever buy a new car? But lots of people do and are very satisfied.

I've also learned from here (and other searching around) that Massanutten is a pretty good place. People enjoy visiting there, it has decent trading power. So as opposed to a hotel unit in VA Beach or Williamsburg, we bought into a resort that we will get more use out of besides the timeshare time.

For me, it also represents a commitment and a focal point - if that makes sense. We've now committed funds to vacationing - and going to Massanutten.

I'm now looking forward to enjoying a lifetime of great vacations at Massanutten and elsewhere.

- Jasen.

 

[tombo]

Once again congratulations.I hope you have a great 20 or 30 years at Massanutten.

I do however have one suggestion. If you ever are thinking about buying another week anywhere, before you sign the papers write down all the great features that come with a purchase from the developer and their price. Tell them you will get back with them as they will absolutelly offer you the same deal (or a better one ) if you come back to buy no matter what they say about buy it now or else. Post a post here with the prices and benefits and let people here show you why most feel that resale is the only way to go.

Rental is also becoming a smart choice over ownership in many cases as rental prices drop due to hugh fuel costs and a weakening economy. If you pay $600 a year in maintenance fees and you can rent a good week for $600 or $700 aqt the same resort, you are much better off renting because you have no outlay, no future assessments (they will come), and you can rent anywhere you want for any week you want every year without hoping your week you own will get you the exchange week you want.

Also timeshares, even purchased resale, are almost never worth what you paid if you ever want or need to sell them. It is not an investment.

It is better to ask advice from people here before you buy than after. You might get some brutally honest answers to your questions rather than the sugar coated responses to a post saying I already bought. Most everyone here has bought a week at too high of a price and sympathize with you. As some say it is like paying tuition. Most of us paid to learn about timeshares the hard way, and we have kept those weeks enjoying them and laughing about our first purchases when we were newbies.

Enjoy your purchase but next time get advice from TUG before you buy, rather than relying solely on the salespeople who will tell you almost anything to make a sale.

 

[elaine]

if you are within 7 days, you can rescind

I believe VA gives you 7 days--follow rescission directions exactly. If you are within 7 days and you are unsure, then rescind. Otherwise, if you are happy with what you paid and what you got (and you are SURE that you can really book for 50% off, etc.) then great and enjoy.
I just bought Disney points--are there cheaper Orlando places, sure--but I know what I got and am happy with it. Enjoy. Elaine

 

[jasenj1]

I believe VA gives you 7 days--follow rescission directions exactly. If you are within 7 days and you are unsure, then rescind.

The primary purpose of this post was to confirm how sure I am. I've seen other threads where people immediately receive several "RESCIND NOW!!!" replies. I haven't had those; that encourages me. And through the discussion I've cemented some value to the "intangibles" involved.

Otherwise, if you are happy with what you paid and what you got (and you are SURE that you can really book for 50% off, etc.) then great and enjoy.
I just bought Disney points--are there cheaper Orlando places, sure--but I know what I got and am happy with it. Enjoy. Elaine

From this discussion, it sounds like, yeah, I paid money for something. But it sounds like something my family will use and enjoy for a long time - that is worth more than the pure $$$. Life is full of choices. We can't obsess over maximizing the value of every one or we'll never do anything.

- Jasen.

 

[elaine]

my only concern

Not to throw cold water on your purchase--which might be grat and a perfect fit for your needs---BUT one concern (based upon reading TUG for 10 years and hearing lots of tales of woe) is if you REALLY get the benefits they promise. I know nothing about your particular deal---but many TS salespersons tell how you can book getaways for $299, book rooms at the resort ANY time for 50% off, etc.---I overheard this very thing last weekend when I was using the day use privileges at my TS resort. In reality, those getaways are usually only for off-season, and the 50% off room is almost never available during ski season, summer at the beach, etc.
I would take a hard look at the Gold PAss and read all the fine print---does it say subject to availability, limited times, units, etc.? If so, you need to assume it won't be avail. when you want it.
It could be totally fine and work great for you, but salesmen frequently tell tall tales. good luck. Elaine (ps--don't bother calling the resort and asking, if it is not in writing, it is no good). PS--I sent you a PM with more info

 

[Steve A]

Don't worry. Don't agonize. Just enjoy it. It's an investment in you.

 

[Patri]

People aren't saying rescind because it is not clear if you are in the recission period. I say rescind. You can easily buy a unit on eBay or other sites and save a lot to use toward skiing expenses. In this economy I don't have $10,000 to throw around, and if you ever decide you want to trade, Massanutten apparently doesn't have that great of an exchange value.

 

[tombo]

I have sugar coated my responses (as have most others) because I was afraid that you were past the recission period. No reason to rub salt in the wound. IF YOU BUY A $500 WEEK ON E-BAY, YOUR FAMILY CAN ENJOY THE EXACT SAME VACATIONS AT THE EXACT SAME RESORT WHILE KEEPING $9500 IN THE BANK. In addtion you can sell a $500 week with little or no loss if you ever lost your job or had another life changing experience requiring you to sell it.

If you read my previous post about everyone sugar coating their responses because you made it sound like it was too late to rescind you will understand why none said to rescind. Not one person here said way to go, what a fantastic deal, $10,000 with a gold card is a much better deal than buying a $500 resale week. No one has asked for your salesman's name to buy a week with a gold card themselves as none of us would pay $10,000 for a week at Massanutten if it came with a Platinum card and a private masseuse. Your "half off lodging" is based upon availability, and believe me, there won't be any availability for half priced rooms at any peak vacation times. The gold card can expire, or they can charge you in the future to continue access to the amenities. Even if you are guaranteed the gold card access forever(which I doubt even if you have it in writing), it isn't worth $9500. It is not a good deal in any form or fashion. We have all been telling you that in a nice way. You can force yourself to take the same vacation owning a $500 week just because you paid the annual non-refundable maintenance fees, and you will still have $9500 in the bank.

Most everyone (including me) feels that YOU MADE A HUGE $9500 MISTAKE, but everyone is trying to be nice rather than to be honest and tell you how bad of a deal $10,000 for a week at Massanutten is. Since you want ot hear it or you won't believe it, RESCIND, RESCIND, RESCIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Miss Marty]

The wife and I went up to Massanutten to take advantage of their marketing dollars - we had no intention of buying. This was abou tour sixth getaway weekend on timeshare developers' dimes. We live about 3 1/2 hours from Massanutten, near Williamsburg.

They offered us Woodstone - Casa de Campo, new construction, occupancy in 2010, with 2 RCI bonus weeks annually until the unit is finished and one annual RCI bonus week thereafter, it is an even year unit, week 24, 2 bedroom lock-off, sleeps 8; maintenance fee is $340 every two years. They also added in their "Gold Card" which essentially gives you usage rights to the resort facilities - rec centers, pools, the Western Slope (their wilderness area), and discounts on lift tickets, hotels, golf, and a few other things.

The "Gold Card" is what hooked me.

- Jasen.

Congratulations on your purchase.

Now that you have visited the resort and completed the sales (pitch) presentation and made your Woodstone purchase. Would you mind
sharing your overall experience with your sales person, management,
etc. Things like, what gift did you receive for taking the tour, which
model unit did they show you and what did you think of the water park.

Also, how long did it take for the presentation and how much longer did it
take to complete the sale (credit approval, etc) Did the salesperson start
out by offering a higher price deluxe unit (what are they selling for) and
then present you with another option before making the final Woodstone
Casa de Campo bi yearly offer. What type of financing did you get.

The Gold Card is worth its weight in Gold.... especially if you live nearby!

 

[elaine]

I have to concur with tombo

I would concur with what tombo said. I would rescind and look for resale. There are fabulous deals for MAss resale and I find it hard to believe that the Gold Card is worth very much--and, even if it is a great discount card, it would take years and years to recoup the thousands you can save right now resale.
MAss. is a fun resort--no one is knocking that--it's just VERY easy to buy a cheap resale at MAss. good luck. Elaine

 

[jasenj1]

Congratulations on your purchase.

Well, you seem to be in the minority with that sentiment.

Now that you have visited the resort and completed the sales (pitch) presentation and made your Woodstone purchase. Would you mind
sharing your overall experience with your sales person, management,
etc.

Our sales presentation was kinda different. We had a manager and a trainee team. The manager did all the talking. Right up front we told them that we've done a number of these presentations and had no intention to buy - we really didn't. I'm not sure if it was his shtick, but the manager seemed to go into an emotionless, "I have better things to be doing, you've heard this all before" mode. He went through the standard greatness of timeshare presentation that we've seen before. And said he went right to the lowest cost thing he could offer.

Things like, what gift did you receive for taking the tour,

They give a $200 VISA gift card. That's how you get your $100 deposit back, they give you $200.

which model unit did they show you and what did you think of the water park.

They showed us Casa de Campo only.

The water park looked pretty neat and they have two more phases to build. It's currently the third (or something) largest indoor water park in the country and will be the largest when they are done. It also has a number of things outside, too - some big slides and a few other things. They have a pretty decent arcade, a buffet restaurant, and a bar in the same building, all looking into the water park. Nicely done. We live 1/2 hr from Busch Gardens and Water Country USA and have season passes to both, so we weren't that impressed or drawn to it. But if I was coming in from other parts, it definitely looked like a fun thing to do with the kids. Doubly so if you were there in the winter for a week and wanted a change after a few days of skiing.

Also, how long did it take for the presentation

A L-O-N-G time. I think the standard spiel took 1/2 hour, and then we spent over 2 hours touring the resort. We were given the excuse that the resort is so large (which it is). If I had better things to do, and had any willpower, I'd definitely be angry. We, however, liked the opportunity to see the place. You drive ALL OVER the resort. Hope the salesperson has a big car because you'll be getting in and out of it a lot.

and how much longer did it take to complete the sale (credit approval, etc)

Well, we sat and stewed and discussed for over an hour. The final purchasing process was pretty quick. Pretty much like a house closing: Here's a stack of papers. Sign here, and here, and here...

Did the salesperson start
out by offering a higher price deluxe unit (what are they selling for) and
then present you with another option before making the final Woodstone Casa de Campo bi yearly offer.

Nope. He started there.

What type of financing did you get.

They sign you up for their own 17.5% financing, but the sales manager was very clear that no one keeps their financing and we should get our own ASAP. We're in the process of getting a HELOC at about 5.25%.

The Gold Card is worth its weight in Gold.... especially if you live nearby!

You seem to be the only one with that opinion. As I said, that's primarily why I spent the $$$ - to get the resort usage and discount benefits. We live 3 hours away, so I could anticipate going out there at least once every couple months including a couple ski trips. I felt the hotel discount, lift ticket discount, and facilities privileges were worth a few hundred dollars a year. (Not taking into account the extra money we'd spend actually going out there vs not, like we currently don't.)

- Jasen.

 

[JudyS]

I really don't know much about the amenities in the area, so I don't know how valuable it is to have day use of (which is what it sounds like you have.)

That said, I find it hard to believe that day use could be worth paying $9500. And, I'm willing to bet that the "half off hotels" is just the Entertainment program that you can buy anywhere for $25 or less. Also, RCI Bonus weeks are pretty much worthless.

It sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that this is worth the money. If you are, and if you are still in the rescission period, then rescind, rescind, rescind. The same deal will still be there later if you decide that you do in fact want this, but if you decide you don't want it, your $10,000 is gone for good.

In fact, if you call and tell them you're rescinding, I'll bet they offer you the exact same deal for less money.

 

[neash]

What nobody has mentioned here is that all Massanutten owners (resale or developer purchase) have day-use, 20% off of lift tickets, etc. I do not know if that is what is called Gold card.

We are resale buyers, and we get all these benefits, just by showing our resort photo-id.

 

[Patri]

It just occurred to me the OP may work for the resort.