Bought 1000 DC points today

[Eli Mairs]

We have two Barony weeks - a platinum and a bronze, which we enrolled in the DC program several years ago. We later purchased 1000 points but rescinded.

Today, we went to Lakeshore Reserve for a presentation, because they were persistent, and were offering a $175 Visa gift card. We had no intention to purchase any points.

However, they offered to take back our bronze week at no cost to us. We have wanted to get rid of this week for years due to the maintenance fees and the low trading power.
So, we will save approximately $700/year in maintenance fees.

We were told that our enrolled points will now become trust points. There are no longer two different buckets of points.
Also, we were told that the minimum points purchase is now 2,000 points, (but they offered us a 1,000 points purchase, because we previously rescinded)

Is all of this true?

 

[GregT]

We have two Barony weeks - a platinum and a bronze, which we enrolled in the DC program several years ago. We later purchased 1000 points but rescinded.

Today, we went to Lakeshore Reserve for a presentation, because they were persistent, and were offering a $175 Visa gift card. We had no intention to purchase any points.

However, they offered to take back our bronze week at no cost to us. We have wanted to get rid of this week for years due to the maintenance fees and the low trading power.
So, we will save approximately $700/year in maintenance fees.

We were told that our enrolled points will now become trust points. There are no longer two different buckets of points.
Also, we were told that the minimum points purchase is now 2,000 points, (but they offered us a 1,000 points purchase, because we previously rescinded)

Is all of this true?

Well, other TUGgers have reported being able to buy 1,000 Trust Points even though they are told 1,500/2,000/2,500 is the minimum. Marriott will sell what they can.

And your enrolled week will not become Trust Points. But Elected Points and Trust Points appear to function equivalently, so it's not a huge distinction, but it's not true.

And they took your bronze week, and I don't know how easy it would have been to give it away.

So, for $12K, it appears that you:

1) Cut your MFs
2) Received 1,000 Trust Points to go with your one remaining week
3) Got rid of your mud week

I think the key thing here is that you got rid of your mud week and cut your MFs. There may have been more cost-effective ways to accomplish this than pay $12K to Marriott. I don't know if 1,000 points is going to significantly change your ability to use the system and I would bet that you will be renting more/buying more points in the future.

I hope this is helpful? Happy to discuss further.

Best,

Greg

 

[Eli Mairs]

Well, other TUGgers have reported being able to buy 1,000 Trust Points even though they are told 1,500/2,000/2,500 is the minimum. Marriott will sell what they can.

And your enrolled week will not become Trust Points. But Elected Points and Trust Points appear to function equivalently, so it's not a huge distinction, but it's not true.

And they took your bronze week, and I don't know how easy it would have been to give it away.

So, for $12K, it appears that you:

1) Cut your MFs
2) Received 1,000 Trust Points to go with your one remaining week
3) Got rid of your mud week

I think the key thing here is that you got rid of your mud week and cut your MFs. There may have been more cost-effective ways to accomplish this than pay $12K to Marriott. I don't know if 1,000 points is going to significantly change your ability to use the system and I would bet that you will be renting more/buying more points in the future.

I hope this is helpful? Happy to discuss further.

Best,

Greg

Hi Greg:

Thank you for your comments.
I know that the 1,000 points won't change our ability to use the system, but we will now have 4,475 points, and that is quite enough for our needs, as long as all the points can be used together. We have DVC and other timeshares, as well.
If you know of a less costly way to get rid of the bronze week, please let me know
I have emailed our sales person requesting written confirmation about the points usage.

 

[JIMinNC]

...we will now have 4,475 points, and that is quite enough for our needs, as long as all the points can be used together. We have DVC and other timeshares, as well...

I have emailed our sales person requesting written confirmation about the points usage.

Just to be sure you are clear...you will continue to have two buckets - 3475 enrolled points and 1000 trust points. Enrolled points do not magically get converted to the Trust. But I don't think that your sales person was trying to say the enrolled points suddenly become Trust points.

I think what he was trying to say is that your Trust points and enrolled points will function seamlessly as one pool of points - and that is a true statement most of the time. For most reservations, the system doesn't care whether you are booking with Trust points or enrolled points - legally they are still two separate pools of points - but functionally from a usage standpoint they can be used interchangeably, combined, etc.

Technically, some small number of reservations may be bookable only with Trust points (some on TUG have reported this) but that is rare so far. In most cases, the system doesn't care whether you are booking with Trust or enrolled. Sales people have been claiming for years that buying Trust points will "supercharge" your enrolled points and allow them to book Trust-only inventory (I think that was the claim your rep was making here), but I don't think TUGgers have seen any evidence of this in the real world. In any event, it's so far been a moot point anyway, as Trust or enrolled points can book the vast majority of the reservations in the system.

 

[Fasttr]

I think what he was trying to say is that your Trust points and enrolled points will function seamlessly as one pool of points - and that is a true statement most of the time. For most reservations, the system doesn't care whether you are booking with Trust points or enrolled points - legally they are still two separate pools of points - but functionally from a usage standpoint they can be used interchangeably, combined, etc.

One thing worth pointing out is that when making a reservation with combined Trust and Enrolled (Legacy) points, I have found that each night of the ressie must be booked with one type or the other. Said another way, any individual night cannot be booked with combined points.

The different type of points, can be combined within a multiple night ressie, but you have to have a quantity of one type of the other to cover individual nights.

As an example, If you are booking a 1000 point 2 night ressie, and say the first night takes 700 points and the second night takes 300 points, if you only have 500 Trust points and 500 Enrolled points available, you will not be able to book the 2 night ressie, even though you have the total number of points needed.

 

[davidvel]

I think what he was trying to say is that your Trust points and enrolled points will function seamlessly as one pool of points - and that is a true statement most of the time.

Why do you say this, when the Op says they were specifically told this?:

We were told that our enrolled points will now become trust points. There are no longer two different buckets of points.

This "morphing" lie is obviously how they convince enrolled owners to pay $$ when they could simply rent the points as lees than the MF/pt. and no outlay upfront. I don't understand why you're diminishing it.

 

[davidvel]

Hi Greg:

Thank you for your comments.
I know that the 1,000 points won't change our ability to use the system, but we will now have 4,475 points, and that is quite enough for our needs, as long as all the points can be used together. We have DVC and other timeshares, as well.
If you know of a less costly way to get rid of the bronze week, please let me know
I have emailed our sales person requesting written confirmation about the points usage.

I am surprised no one has suggested that you RESCIND your purchase. It is strange you are concerned about saving a few hundred bucks in MF (and losing your usage), but gladly dishing out $12,000.00. The math (or budgeting) here seems off to me. This is especially true since you are enrolled and can rent as many points as you want (only when you want) for less than the MF/pt, and no $12,000.00 outlay.

You are paying $200/yr less on MF (as you will pay over $500/yr on your new points.) But this cost you $12,000.00, so really you won't be "saving" anything (if you see it that way) for 60 years.

P.S. Even if you received it, which I doubt, written confirmation doesn't affect the contract you signed which disclaims all of this.

 

[SueDonJ]

Why do you say this, when the Op says they were specifically told this?:

Probably because what this OP heard from a rep isn't anything new and exciting; it's been said many different ways but disproven consistently on TUG.

Trust Points must correlate to intervals conveyed to the Trust and Exchange Points must correlate to enrolled Weeks. Trust Members have direct access to intervals in the Trust as well as to intervals in the Exchange Company. Exchange Members have direct access to only the intervals in the Exchange Company. Owners of both types of Points can combine them to reserve a single reservation but in the case of an interval with one or more nights originating in the Trust, only if each night of the stay can be booked by one type of Points or the other. As others have said MVW is managing all inventory such that the majority of reservations are made available through the Exchange Company, which makes for what appears to be an almost seamless integration of Trust and Exchange inventory (and which is the basis for what's said by sales reps,) but there are and will be occasional instances where the originations of the Points and/or the intervals will prevent obtaining a desired reservation.

There's been no indication of amendments to the Trust/DC governing docs which would result in Exchange Points being able to morph into Trust Points. It simply can't happen without such amendments - and it's a giant technical hurdle that would impact many, many, MANY other aspects of the entire program. The morphing can't happen unless MVW allows an Owner to permanently exchange a Week for Trust Points, because then MVW could convey the Week to the Trust. There is currently no mechanism in the program that allows an enrolled Week to generate Trust Points either on an annual elective basis or permanently.

 

[SueDonJ]

... This "morphing" lie is obviously how they convince enrolled owners to pay $$ when they could simply rent the points as lees than the MF/pt. and no outlay upfront. I don't understand why you're diminishing it.

(Sorry, I missed your edit while I was typing.)

I agree, this continuing "morphing" talk from reps probably gets them a lot of sales (and I think it's important for TUGgers to continue to debunk it.) But I can think of other reasons why Owners of Enrolled Weeks might choose to purchase Trust Points, probably the number one reason being that they're not interested in playing in the rental sandbox. As long as they're informed, it makes no difference to me that they choose an option that may not be the most economical.

Regardless, for this OP it seemed to be the primary driver so I also hope that rescission is being considered.

 

[JIMinNC]

I am surprised no one has suggested that you RESCIND your purchase. It is strange you are concerned about saving a few hundred bucks in MF (and losing your usage), but gladly dishing out $12,000.00. The math (or budgeting) here seems off to me. This is especially true since you are enrolled and can rent as many points as you want (only when you want) for less than the MF/pt, and no $12,000.00 outlay.

You are paying $200/yr less on MF (as you will pay over $500/yr on your new points.) But this cost you $12,000.00, so really you won't be "saving" anything (if you see it that way) for 60 years.

P.S. Even if you received it, which I doubt, written confirmation doesn't affect the contract you signed which disclaims all of this.

Actually, I think the OP meant his net savings were $700 after factoring in the Points MF. The OP will need to confirm this, but it makes sense since a Barony week has a MF of about $1200 and the 1000 points would carry a MF of around $500. So your 60 year payback would actually be 17 years.

A Bronze Barony week is not an efficient point generator - the OP didn't say what view they had, but depending on view, full week bookings in Bronze season range from 650 points for GV to 1175 for OF, so after the skim, an enrolled bronze Barony week ($1200 MF) would likely elect for only 600 to 1100 points and thus have a MF cost of $1 to $2 per point, whereas Trust points only cost $0.50 or so.

If I were in the OP's position, I think easily getting rid of the Bronze week and the associated MF would make this deal more appealing than if it were just about acquiring points. The Trust points replace the point value of the Bronze week at a lower cost. Yes it takes 17 years to recoup the upfront $12K, but I think it's nice to be able to just give that week back to Marriott rather than having to list it and try to find someone to give it to. Avoiding trouble and hassle is worth something, although that value can't be quantified and varies from person to person.

Yes, point rentals are an alternative to this deal, but again, if it were me, I know I would prefer to own the amount of points that I think I could be sure I can use every year since owned points have more flexibility in being able to bank and borrow. I like point rentals, but probably only as a way to supplement my owned points in any given year to help cover those years when my needs exceed what I own.

 

[JIMinNC]

I think what he was trying to say is that your Trust points and enrolled points will function seamlessly as one pool of points - and that is a true statement most of the time.

Why do you say this, when the Op says they were specifically told this?:

We were told that our enrolled points will now become trust points. There are no longer two different buckets of points.

This "morphing" lie is obviously how they convince enrolled owners to pay $$ when they could simply rent the points as lees than the MF/pt. and no outlay upfront. I don't understand why you're diminishing it.

I said that because in post #3, the OP said:

we will now have 4,475 points, and that is quite enough for our needs, as long as all the points can be used together.

I wasn't trying to minimize what the sales rep claimed (in fact, I mentioned further down in my post that the supercharging claim had long been debunked by TUGgers), I was just pointing out that Trust points and Enrolled points can be used together - enrolled points do not have to "convert" to Trust points for them to function as one pool. With the exception of the situations noted by Fasttr, I was pointing out that having one bucket is irrelevant as long as the two buckets (trust and enrolled) more or less seamlessly function as one. That seemed to be what the OP was looking for.

 

[Eli Mairs]

Actually, I think the OP meant his net savings were $700 after factoring in the Points MF. The OP will need to confirm this, but it makes sense since a Barony week has a MF of about $1200 and the 1000 points would carry a MF of around $500. So your 60 year payback would actually be 17 years.

A Bronze Barony week is not an efficient point generator - the OP didn't say what view they had, but depending on view, full week bookings in Bronze season range from 650 points for GV to 1175 for OF, so after the skim, an enrolled bronze Barony week ($1200 MF) would likely elect for only 600 to 1100 points and thus have a MF cost of $1 to $2 per point, whereas Trust points only cost $0.50 or so.

Yes, the savings would be approximately $700.00.

The bronze week is oceanside, worth 775 points.

I must apologize.
My husband pointed out, after reading my post, that the salesman did not say that our enrolled points would become trust points.
He said that one enrolled point would equal one trust point.
He was actually one of the nicer salesmen we have dealt with. He didn't try to pressure us into buying a higher number of points.
We'll see how he responds to our email asking for clarification.

 

[davidvel]

Actually, I think the OP meant his net savings were $700 after factoring in the Points MF. The OP will need to confirm this, but it makes sense since a Barony week has a MF of about $1200 and the 1000 points would carry a MF of around $500. So your 60 year payback would actually be 17 years.

A Bronze Barony week is not an efficient point generator - the OP didn't say what view they had, but depending on view, full week bookings in Bronze season range from 650 points for GV to 1175 for OF, so after the skim, an enrolled bronze Barony week ($1200 MF) would likely elect for only 600 to 1100 points and thus have a MF cost of $1 to $2 per point, whereas Trust points only cost $0.50 or so.

If I were in the OP's position, I think easily getting rid of the Bronze week and the associated MF would make this deal more appealing than if it were just about acquiring points. The Trust points replace the point value of the Bronze week at a lower cost. Yes it takes 17 years to recoup the upfront $12K, but I think it's nice to be able to just give that week back to Marriott rather than having to list it and try to find someone to give it to. Avoiding trouble and hassle is worth something, although that value can't be quantified and varies from person to person.

Yes, point rentals are an alternative to this deal, but again, if it were me, I know I would prefer to own the amount of points that I think I could be sure I can use every year since owned points have more flexibility in being able to bank and borrow. I like point rentals, but probably only as a way to supplement my owned points in any given year to help cover those years when my needs exceed what I own.

Ok.
But this sure sounds like a sales spiel. You're not a sales rep right?

 

[davidvel]

Yes, the savings would be approximately $700.00.

The bronze week is oceanside, worth 775 points.

I must apologize.
My husband pointed out, after reading my post, that the salesman did not say that our enrolled points would become trust points.
He said that one enrolled point would equal one trust point.
He was actually one of the nicer salesmen we have dealt with. He didn't try to pressure us into buying a higher number of points.
We'll see how he responds to our email asking for clarification.

Ok, so to recap, you're trying to "save" $700/yr by spending $12,000 right now, which you'll break even on in 17 years.

Sounds like a great deal.

Or in reality, you should RESCIND.

 

[davidvel]

But I can think of other reasons why Owners of Enrolled Weeks might choose to purchase Trust Points, probably the number one reason being that they're not interested in playing in the rental sandbox.

I always have fun in the sand.
Is the rental sandbox bad?
Is avoiding it worth $12,000.00?

 

[Eli Mairs]

Ok, so to recap, you're trying to "save" $700/yr by spending $12,000 right now, which you'll break even on in 17 years.

Sounds like a great deal.

Or in reality, you should RESCIND.

Well, a major part of the reason is to get rid of the bronze week.

Over the past few years we have noticed a substantial decrease in exchange availability. Our bronze week gets very little until a couple of months out. Even our platinum week has shown diminished trading power.

We're not too happy about having to buy more points, but if it rids us of the bronze week, it will be worth it in the end.

If anyone out there has a better idea of how to get rid of the bronze week in a more cost effective way, please let me know in the next week, while we are able to rescind.

 

[SueDonJ]

I always have fun in the sand.
Is the rental sandbox bad?
Is avoiding it worth $12,000.00?

Isn't that a personal question? Some folks don't like being sandy, and it's not up to any of us to decide how/whether folks should be spending their own money. Isn't it enough that we're willing to give them the information and let them make up their own - informed - minds?

 

[SueDonJ]

Ok.
But this sure sounds like a sales spiel. You're not a sales rep right?

Why is it that any TUGgers who can see value - however it's personally measured - in seriously considering the myriad options available for purchasing direct from Marriott, are so often accused of being Marriott employees, of having ulterior motives?

We know enough from what Jim has freely posted here over a long enough period that he's happy with the Marriott products he owns and the way he purchased them. Even if he were a sales rep, which I don't know personally but don't believe he is, so what? He's a satisfied owner sharing his experience in the hope of educating others. It's one thing to call out sales reps when they misuse and abuse TUG in order to further their own aims - which has been done on TUG successfully several times. It's quite another to accuse folks of doing it when there's no basis for the accusation, which IMO happens far too often. It's sad.

 

[SueDonJ]

Well, a major part of the reason is to get rid of the bronze week. ...

If anyone out there has a better idea of how to get rid of the bronze week in a more cost effective way, please let me know in the next week, while we are able to rescind.

I'm assuming that you've contacted Marriott Resales to see if they're willing to buy it back, and that as a Bronze Week it has no value for them. If you haven't, review this thread and use the link in the first post to get the contact information off their "Sell Weeks" page - it can't hurt and may help. Good luck!

 

[Eli Mairs]

I'm assuming that you've contacted Marriott Resales to see if they're willing to buy it back, and that as a Bronze Week it has no value for them. If you haven't, review this thread and use the link in the first post to get the contact information off their "Sell Weeks" page - it can't hurt and may help. Good luck!

Actually, we have not done that, but will contact them on Monday.

Thanks! Not optimistic that they will take it back, but it's worth asking them.

 

[JIMinNC]

Ok.
But this sure sounds like a sales spiel. You're not a sales rep right?

Absolutely not! Spent most of my career in banking (hence my penchant for "numbers"), now I'm in the aviation publishing and photography business. You can see some of my aviation and space photos here.

Everyone has different measures of value. Many on TUG enjoy "working" the system to get the absolute best value - whether that means playing the trading game in depth, doing consumer-to-consumer rentals to save a few bucks (or make money if they are on the landlord side of the transaction), etc. Often the advice I read assumes everyone has that same definition of "value" and is willing to work the system to get the lowest cost. So I try to offer a different perspective where getting something for the absolute lowest cost may not be the only desired goal.

I felt the OP had a unique situation where they needed to unload a hard to dump Bronze week. I felt the offer they accepted - while maybe not the absolute lowest cost option - offered some intangible benefits like lowering their annual MF outlay while increasing their amount of available points and ridding themselves of the week. Based on the way I think about it, it seemed like a reasonable deal as a one-stop-shop way of rebalancing their ownership. But if getting the absolute lowest cost is their goal, even if it means more work, there may be other options. But other than the direct buyback option Sue suggested they explore (and I agree with that if they think they can make do with only 3475 annual points instead of 4475), in my opinion, few other options offer the simplicity of the offer Marriott made to them.

 

[BocaBoy]

Why is it that any TUGgers who can see value - however it's personally measured - in seriously considering the myriad options available for purchasing direct from Marriott, are so often accused of being Marriott employees, of having ulterior motives?

We know enough from what Jim has freely posted here over a long enough period that he's happy with the Marriott products he owns and the way he purchased them.....He's a satisfied owner sharing his experience in the hope of educating others. It's one thing to call out sales reps when they misuse and abuse TUG in order to further their own aims - which has been done on TUG successfully several times. It's quite another to accuse folks of doing it when there's no basis for the accusation, which IMO happens far too often. It's sad.

Thank you for those comments, Sue. It is a point that needs to be made. I still remember shortly after I started on TUG the DC program was rolled out and I made a number of comments that were somewhat positive about the possibilities. I was attacked quite strongly by several TUGGERs as being a Marriott employee to the point where I almost did not come back here. It still rankles, and frankly makes me still wary of TUG, but thankfully most of the most offensive attackers have since disappeared.

 

[BocaBoy]

Ok, so to recap, you're trying to "save" $700/yr by spending $12,000 right now, which you'll break even on in 17 years.

Sounds like a great deal.

Or in reality, you should RESCIND.

I am sure glad you know what is best for everyone. I wish I were so wise. I actually thought the OP had some good reasons for her transaction. And by the way, that $700 savings is almost a 6% return. Not that bad.

 

[GreenTea]

Well, a major part of the reason is to get rid of the bronze week.

Over the past few years we have noticed a substantial decrease in exchange availability. Our bronze week gets very little until a couple of months out. Even our platinum week has shown diminished trading power.

We're not too happy about having to buy more points, but if it rids us of the bronze week, it will be worth it in the end.

If anyone out there has a better idea of how to get rid of the bronze week in a more cost effective way, please let me know in the next week, while we are able to rescind.

You can give your bronze week away. For free, someone would probably like it.

 

[kds4]

Isn't that a personal question? Some folks don't like being sandy, and it's not up to any of us to decide how/whether folks should be spending their own money. Isn't it enough that we're willing to give them the information and let them make up their own - informed - minds?

For me it's more all the sand that gets in unintended and rather uncomfortable places ...