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Biden announces sweeping vaccine mandates affecting millions of workers

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Superchief

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Only FDA approved drugs can be publicly advertised. Pfizer only recently received FDA approval and the others are still under EUA. That’s why you don’t see any advertisements. The legal requirements for any substances under EUA are significant and therefore information is not widely available by design.


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I doubt that any the manufacturers will advertise these vaccines after FDA approval because they would have to mention the side effects. That could scare off more people than it would attract.
 

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I doubt that any the manufacturers will advertise these vaccines after FDA approval because they would have to mention the side effects. That could scare off more people than it would attract.
Vaccine side effects? What side effects? As far as I can tell, Pfizer does not even show on their website any recent data about the adverse reactions of the Covid vaccine. Why would they stick their head out when they can let the others do the dirty work for them?
 

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I doubt that any the manufacturers will advertise these vaccines after FDA approval because they would have to mention the side effects. That could scare off more people than it would attract.
When I received the Pfizer vaccine in the spring I was given information that listed possible side effects at that time. Have you listened to any of the side effects listed out for many of the drugs already being advertised? I can say without hesitation that the side effects for the vaccine would pale in comparison to many of the side effects listed out for the biologics just as one example.

There are side effects for every vaccine known to man - and the current vaccines are certainly no worse in this respect than the earlier vaccines given to most Americans. The risk of the side effects of the virus are certainly more prevalent and generally of a worse nature than the risks of the vaccine. There’s a reason there are so many articles written about long covid symptoms.


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Patri

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I don’t agree with the anti-vaxxers. I wish there’s a way for them to own their consequences, meaning if you choose to decline vaccination, you subsequently decline all insurance benefit or medical treatments due to Covid. There isn’t enough beds nor medical resources for people who choose their own demise. But hey, that your choice.
By that logic, anyone who smokes should be denied treatment for lung cancer, no help for motorcyclists in accidents if no helmet, etc.
 

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Does anyone know yet what the actual details/wording is on this new policy? I think right now nothing has been legislated/codified?

So based upon that assumption, I'm probably going to wait until I see everything, but my gut reaction would be:
1) I don't particularly care for national mandate like this
2) Will there be an "immunity" exception (ie, you had COVID already, will you be forced to get "fully" vaccinated?)

I feel there's a better way to handle things, but I'm not in charge.
I also find it a bit ironic with the statements that we need to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated and vaccines do work. Yes, I'm 2-shot Pfizer since April, but I can see unvaccinated folks reading/listening to the previous sentence/statement and further enforcing their resistance. Of course, doesn't help that we still require testing for all incoming international travelers to the US via Air, regardless of vaccination status, or immunity status. But that's a different topic for discussion I guess.
 

DannyTS

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When I received the Pfizer vaccine in the spring I was given information that listed possible side effects at that time. Have you listened to any of the side effects listed out for many of the drugs already being advertised? I can say without hesitation that the side effects for the vaccine would pale in comparison to many of the side effects listed out for the biologics just as one example.

There are side effects for every vaccine known to man - and the current vaccines are certainly no worse in this respect than the earlier vaccines given to most Americans. The risk of the side effects of the virus are certainly more prevalent and generally of a worse nature than the risks of the vaccine. There’s a reason there are so many articles written about long covid symptoms.


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The benefits of the vaccine vs the severe side effects are very different if you are 15 or 75. I think studies showed that the side effects can heavily outweigh the benefits for certain groups of population.
 

Superchief

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When I received the Pfizer vaccine in the spring I was given information that listed possible side effects at that time. Have you listened to any of the side effects listed out for many of the drugs already being advertised? I can say without hesitation that the side effects for the vaccine would pale in comparison to many of the side effects listed out for the biologics just as one example.

There are side effects for every vaccine known to man - and the current vaccines are certainly no worse in this respect than the earlier vaccines given to most Americans. The risk of the side effects of the virus are certainly more prevalent and generally of a worse nature than the risks of the vaccine. There’s a reason there are so many articles written about long covid symptoms.


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The side effects that I've read about for the vaccines are primarily among younger men and women, so I understand their hesitancy to get the vaccine when their risks are significantly lower. Young males have experienced heart issues and women are concerned about long term impact on ability to have children. Several of my daughters' friends experienced problems with their menstrual cycle after receiving the vaccine, so this further reinforced their concerns. The lack of information available about the side effects further reinforces people's skepticism about vaccines. More transparency would generate more trust.
 

bluehende

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Does anyone know yet what the actual details/wording is on this new policy? I think right now nothing has been legislated/codified?

So based upon that assumption, I'm probably going to wait until I see everything, but my gut reaction would be:
1) I don't particularly care for national mandate like this
2) Will there be an "immunity" exception (ie, you had COVID already, will you be forced to get "fully" vaccinated?)

I feel there's a better way to handle things, but I'm not in charge.
I also find it a bit ironic with the statements that we need to protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated and vaccines do work. Yes, I'm 2-shot Pfizer since April, but I can see unvaccinated folks reading/listening to the previous sentence/statement and further enforcing their resistance. Of course, doesn't help that we still require testing for all incoming international travelers to the US via Air, regardless of vaccination status, or immunity status. But that's a different topic for discussion I guess.
None of it is written yet. My understanding and I am not anexpert is that this will be done as a regulatory process. For that the regulators write the regulation and there is a comment period. My guess is that the power of the bully pulpit giving cover for companies that mandate vaccines was as big a factor than the actual regulation.
 

bluehende

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The side effects that I've read about for the vaccines are primarily among younger men and women, so I understand their hesitancy to get the vaccine when their risks are significantly lower. Young males have experienced heart issues and women are concerned about long term impact on ability to have children. Several of my daughters' friends experienced problems with their menstrual cycle after receiving the vaccine, so this further reinforced their concerns. The lack of information available about the side effects further reinforces people's skepticism about vaccines. More transparency would generate more trust.
Yet you ignore this



The risk of myocarditis for children under 16 years is 37 times higher for those infected with COVID-19 than those who haven’t been infected with the virus, according to a new study.

In recent months, there has been concern about a small risk of myocarditis after receiving an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine. A June study showed among males ages 12-29 years — the group with the highest rates of myocarditis after vaccination — there would be an estimated 39 to 47 cases of myocarditis for every million second doses of vaccine. Authors of the new study say their findings support health officials’ assertions that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks.
 

DannyTS

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Yet you ignore this



The risk of myocarditis for children under 16 years is 37 times higher for those infected with COVID-19 than those who haven’t been infected with the virus, according to a new study.

In recent months, there has been concern about a small risk of myocarditis after receiving an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine. A June study showed among males ages 12-29 years — the group with the highest rates of myocarditis after vaccination — there would be an estimated 39 to 47 cases of myocarditis for every million second doses of vaccine. Authors of the new study say their findings support health officials’ assertions that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks.
I would like to see the actual study. The article you posted looked at the hospitalizations in 2020 vs 2019 but did not show how the adverse reactions from the vaccine were gathered. If they got them from VAERS (which may only capture 1% of the adverse reactions and it is delayed) thank you very much, the study does not stand on two legs.

A more consistent study showed:


"Boys more at risk from Pfizer jab side-effect than Covid, suggests study"



 

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The benefits of the vaccine vs the severe side effects are very different if you are 15 or 75. I think studies showed that the side effects can heavily outweigh the benefits for certain groups of population.
When these types of statements are made - I hark from the Missouri state - show me the double blind RCTs - not observational studies mind you - the level one RCTs only please.
 

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The side effects that I've read about for the vaccines are primarily among younger men and women, so I understand their hesitancy to get the vaccine when their risks are significantly lower. Young males have experienced heart issues and women are concerned about long term impact on ability to have children. Several of my daughters' friends experienced problems with their menstrual cycle after receiving the vaccine, so this further reinforced their concerns. The lack of information available about the side effects further reinforces people's skepticism about vaccines. More transparency would generate more trust.
We should see more transparency post-FDA approval. You have to remember that, with the exception of Pfizer, all of the vaccines are still under EUA. EUA means that the third required one year larger RCT trials have not actually completed. These larger trials establish the data you're asking for - so until those studies are complete - any other studies are observational in nature and not sufficient for disseminating factual information at scale. Much of what people share is strictly anecdotal. For example, you just gave an example of your daughter's friends experiencing problems with their menstrual cycles - but there are a plethora of other factors that could produce those same outcomes - including the mind - meaning if people believe something - it has a real impact on how the body behaves - this is why we perform double blind RCTs - to eliminate anecdotal and observation outcomes. Correlation does not equal causation. If you actually study RCTs - you'll notice that the placebo group often experiences a range of symptoms similar to the control group - yet they never received anything other than placebo - that's the mind/body playing tricks on people based solely on their beliefs. The mind is a powerful thing - as RCTs almost always prove out.
 

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Just bear in mind that's a non-peer reviewed observational analysis - it's not an RCT in other words. I'm not saying it's not worthy of consideration - but there's a reason we require peer review and RCTs as opposed to statistical analyses like this. There's several studies that are recruiting for this issue currently:

 

DannyTS

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I will look at any RCT study you want me to look at. My understanding though is that when both the benefits and the adverse reactions are rare , an RCT might be completely useless because you will never be able to have a large enough group to have statistically significant results. When you do an RTC with 20,000-30,000 kids you will never be able to have large enough numbers to make a determination when only 28 kids died with covid last year out of millions of infections. And those were ill to begin with, subjects that is excluded in a randomized trial. Why do you think the CDC has not approved the vaxx for the 12-15 YO and asked the promoters for more data?



The best studies in this case are actually observational because they can look at millions of medical files of the vaccinated and compare them with similar groups and to the previous years. The biostatistics in this case is a lot more valuable but it just has to be consistent and compare apples to apples.
 

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I don't see any point in the vax manufacturers putting any money into vax advertising since so many other voices are saying Get The Vax. Big Pharma is expensive business, this is one place I think they can skimp. I am a shareholder in both MRK and PFE and to me it doesn't matter which company gets the most shots out since we are talking about vaxxing the world. A lot of bodies. Then a booster.

I could see government asking the CEOs of the big vax mfgs to do a public service spot together, citing safety data and a modicum of sciency stuff to allay the microchip bs. Basically, we make all the other meds you ingest, you can trust us. take the damned shot!

list websites for them and those websites better have easy navigation to What's In It, What Might It Do To Me, How Does It Work, all the common objections covered.
 

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We should see more transparency post-FDA approval. You have to remember that, with the exception of Pfizer, all of the vaccines are still under EUA. EUA means that the third required one year larger RCT trials have not actually completed. These larger trials establish the data you're asking for - so until those studies are complete - any other studies are observational in nature and not sufficient for disseminating factual information at scale. Much of what people share is strictly anecdotal. For example, you just gave an example of your daughter's friends experiencing problems with their menstrual cycles - but there are a plethora of other factors that could produce those same outcomes - including the mind - meaning if people believe something - it has a real impact on how the body behaves - this is why we perform double blind RCTs - to eliminate anecdotal and observation outcomes. Correlation does not equal causation. If you actually study RCTs - you'll notice that the placebo group often experiences a range of symptoms similar to the control group - yet they never received anything other than placebo - that's the mind/body playing tricks on people based solely on their beliefs. The mind is a powerful thing - as RCTs almost always prove out.
Having spent a 45 yr career doing product development and marketing research, I'm very familiar with the placebo effect as well as advanced statistics. I think the fear being caused by our politicians and press also have a halo effect on how people respond to the disease. Scared people don't recover as well as confident people or those with 'faith'. This is why I want to see the data and methodology before trusting a study. I've seen very few double-blind, matched sample research for Covid at this point, and a lot of the reports have been misrepresented to support a viewpoint. I'm always skeptical of studies that use terms like '15 times more likely' when dealing with very small incidence levels or convenience samples. Most people aren't even aware of the studies that are posted in these threads so people are making decisions based on their own knowledge and research. Many are skeptical of the CDC and press because they only report studies that fit their agenda. I really hope that no major side effects surface in the longer term studies. I still recall an antibiotic I worked on during my pharma years. Clinical trials were successful and it was launched in three Mediterranean countries without any problems. However, when launched in Sweden a major photosensitivity side effect was identified in people with lighter complexions. This caused the product to be withdrawn from the market.

Based on what I've seen, I would probably recommend young males and females to get the vaccine unless they had already gotten Covid or have other underlying conditions that would increase their potential for side effects. The potential consequences of Covid complications are serious, but still represent very low likelihood among healthy individuals. I wish more effort would be placed on helping people build their own immune systems by eating healthy, exercising and losing weight. I believe Covid will be around for a long time similar to the cold and flu, so many of these short term tactics could have longer term negative consequences.
 

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I don't see any point in the vax manufacturers putting any money into vax advertising since so many other voices are saying Get The Vax. Big Pharma is expensive business, this is one place I think they can skimp. I am a shareholder in both MRK and PFE and to me it doesn't matter which company gets the most shots out since we are talking about vaxxing the world. A lot of bodies. Then a booster.

I could see government asking the CEOs of the big vax mfgs to do a public service spot together, citing safety data and a modicum of sciency stuff to allay the microchip bs. Basically, we make all the other meds you ingest, you can trust us. take the damned shot!

list websites for them and those websites better have easy navigation to What's In It, What Might It Do To Me, How Does It Work, all the common objections covered.
I agree totally that an informational website would be great. I never really expected these companies to spend money on advertising, I was just making the point that the side effects they would have to mention might outweigh the perceived benefits. I think a lot of drugs are hurt more than helped by advertising, especially when the side effects are things such as 'explosive diarrhea' and 'potentially death' especially for a GI drug. It would be nice to see very objective information, both good and bad. However, those who believe the microchip theory will likely never trust any information from the companies or government.
 

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Honest omission for sure.

"Massachusetts health officials on Tuesday reported nearly 4,000 new breakthrough cases over the past week, and 32 more deaths."

Woops, they forget to mention that the total number of cases last week was around 11,500 and that there were about 70 covid deaths. 192 breakthrough deaths since January, 32 last week. But who's counting anyways.


 

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I agree totally that an informational website would be great. I never really expected these companies to spend money on advertising, I was just making the point that the side effects they would have to mention might outweigh the perceived benefits. I think a lot of drugs are hurt more than helped by advertising, especially when the side effects are things such as 'explosive diarrhea' and 'potentially death' especially for a GI drug. It would be nice to see very objective information, both good and bad. However, those who believe the microchip theory will likely never trust any information from the companies or government.
agree, those who embrace the conspiracy stuff are imo beyond reachable.

great moments in advertising:
I have to go back to the Wow! chips situation. There were 3 items, I could not stop laughing out loud when I saw what they had to run in the newspaper. I am laughing now, remembering...

Full page ad they had to run. main paragraph was super simple and bold print:

Wow! chips could cause you to:

1) stop driving;
2) miss work;
3) change clothes


all that, over a Snack Chip!!! probably if you read the chip bag you wouldn't buy it altho it didn't contain these 3 points.

below background copied from somewhere on the internet:

Lay's WOW Chips




View source









Lay's WOW Chips

Date founded
1998
Type of snack
Chips
Lay's WOW Chipswere fat-free potato chips produced by Frito-Lay containing Olestra. They were first introduced in 1998, and were marketed using the Lay's, Ruffles, Doritos, and Tostitos brands. Although initially popular, charting sales of $400 million in their first year, they subsequently dropped to $200 million by 2000. As Olestra caused "abdominal cramping, diarrhea, fecal incontinence ["anal leakage"], and other gastrointestinal symptoms" in some customers,[1] warnings were required to be included on the packaging, with the WOW bag bearing a warning that read, "This Product Contains Olestra. Olestra may cause abdominal cramping and loose stools. Olestra inhibits the absorption of some vitamins and other nutrients. Vitamins A, D, E, and K have been added."[2]

Around the same time, the WOW brand was renamed to "Light". The product then continued under that brand name.
 

Superchief

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agree, those who embrace the conspiracy stuff are imo beyond reachable.

great moments in advertising:
I have to go back to the Wow! chips situation. There were 3 items, I could not stop laughing out loud when I saw what they had to run in the newspaper. I am laughing now, remembering...

Full page ad they had to run. main paragraph was super simple and bold print:

Wow! chips could cause you to:

1) stop driving;
2) miss work;
3) change clothes


all that, over a Snack Chip!!! probably if you read the chip bag you wouldn't buy it altho it didn't contain these 3 points.

below background copied from somewhere on the internet:

Lay's WOW Chips



View source









Lay's WOW Chips

Date founded
1998
Type of snack
Chips
Lay's WOW Chipswere fat-free potato chips produced by Frito-Lay containing Olestra. They were first introduced in 1998, and were marketed using the Lay's, Ruffles, Doritos, and Tostitos brands. Although initially popular, charting sales of $400 million in their first year, they subsequently dropped to $200 million by 2000. As Olestra caused "abdominal cramping, diarrhea, fecal incontinence ["anal leakage"], and other gastrointestinal symptoms" in some customers,[1] warnings were required to be included on the packaging, with the WOW bag bearing a warning that read, "This Product Contains Olestra. Olestra may cause abdominal cramping and loose stools. Olestra inhibits the absorption of some vitamins and other nutrients. Vitamins A, D, E, and K have been added."[2]

Around the same time, the WOW brand was renamed to "Light". The product then continued under that brand name.
Olestra was supposed to be the magic ingredient that did not contain any fat and passed through the system Unfortunately, it caused 'seepage'. Even P&G made mistakes.
 

klpca

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My little data point - my daughter received the vaccine in May (as did her husband) and our first grandchild is due on March 7th! They have had every diagnostic test run and two sensitive ultrasounds done so far, and bebe looks great. It took her two months to get pregnant and she is in her mid-30's. So from where we stand, all is well. For reference, both of them are athletes and are extremely healthy and eat a very healthy diet. My daughter works in cancer research and got her vaccine as soon as she could. She was definitely satisfied with the data and understands what she is dealing with.
 
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PcflEZFlng

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My little data point - my daughter received the vaccine in May (as did her husband) and our first grandchild is due on March 7th! They have had every diagnostic test run and two sensitive ultrasounds done so far, and bebe looks great. It took her two months to get pregnant and she is in her mid-30's. So from where we stand, all is well.
Congratulations!! Now THAT is a "data point" worth writing about!!
 

Tia

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This is a problem and it does not make sense to me . If they get sick and spread it more stress on the whole system

I just wish these new mandates would include those coming from the Mexican border. I'm reading that everyone is offered a vax yet many refuse and have tested positive.
 
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