Beware The Music Police Cometh

[Kozman]

At first I thought it was a joke when I heard that Broadcast Music Inc. (aka music police) were hassling and threatening a resort I own at. This resort has a guy come in once a week and he plays music on his guitar while guests enjoy a pot luck dinner. The BMI demanded that they cease and desist unless they pay a yearly licensing fee to cover the copyrighted songs he was playing. As it turns out they consulted a copyright lawyer and he advised them BMI was backed by law and he recommenced they pay the minimum fee of about $250 per year. I guess they are going to do it to satisfy the demands.

I googled the subject and found many cases where this is taking place. BMI has headhunters who scout for them and visit venues looking for 'violations'. They claim you are not even allowed to play music over the radio from a music station without paying if it can be heard by a group of guests or pubic.

There are two additional music associations representing music artists and if you pay one the other two will be in line to get paid too. Other resorts in the area have heard of this outcome and are holding their breath awaiting their letter in the mail.

 

[SMHarman]

Yes. This is correct. If you perform a copyrighted song then you owe royalties.

The radio one is easier to manage with a commercial broadcast Pandora licence.

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[RonB]

No Happy Birthday by restaurant employees

Same song - different verse...

Warner/Chappell Music held the copyright on the song "Happy Birthday" until recently when a federal judge ruled the copyright invalid. Until that happened, businesses like restaurants could not sing "Happy Birthday" to customers without paying a royalty. W/CM collected millions of dollars in royalties and may now have to pay it back.

Ron

 

[Kozman]

BMI went so far as to say certain chords were copyrighted so even an original song using these chords would have to pay.

 

[pedro47]

Wow!! How many resorts are in violation of this copyright law?

 

[SMHarman]

BMI went so far as to say certain chords were copyrighted so even an original song using these chords would have to pay.

"No Stairway" - Wayne's World

You can also see the recent cases of Uptown Funk and Oops Up Side Your Head and The Police and Bruno Marrs

Wow!! How many resorts are in violation of this copyright law?

Not many I presume. Most public venues and restaurant owners know you pay these fees and are done for the year. It's a cost of doing business lust like insurance.

I'm surprised the restaurant is not in more trouble. Is there no music in the restaurant at other times?

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[Passepartout]

Paying for the use of copyrighted music- or books- or spoken words- (insert name of intellectual property here) is simply a cost of performing same. If producers of intellectual property are not paid for their work, there simply won't be any produced.

My DW is president of a local symphony. When they want to perform a piece of music, they have to pay royalties for every piece of sheet music for every instrument- and the right to perform it.

The only legal way around this is for the performer to perform ONLY original material. And it can't even be 'substantially similar' to copyrighted material or the copyright holder can sue for infringement.

Jim

 

[Makai Guy]

I'm just surprised they hit the venue for the fee instead of the performers. Or do they collect from both?

 

[Passepartout]

I'm just surprised they hit the venue for the fee instead of the performers. Or do they collect from both?

I think that they could collect from both- based on who makes income from presentation of the material. So in the OP's case, the musician would clearly owe royalties which could/should be satisfied if they bought sheet music to learn the music. The resort may be liable if they make income from having the musician perform. Usually, the royalties are low enough in cost, and the comparatively high cost of defending whether or not income was derived from having live music performed that they simply pay.

 

[SMHarman]

You have performing royalties and writing royalties and broadcast royalties and mechanical royalties. It's a complicated space.

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[am1]

I would encourage artists to make their money on live events and meet and greets. Facebook/website advertising etc.

 

[Passepartout]

I would encourage artists to make their money on live events and meet and greets. Facebook/website advertising etc.

I won't wager they are just standing in line for your encouragement to give up revenue from other musicians performing their material. But hey, it's a free country. Encourage away.

 

[am1]

I won't wager they are just standing in line for your encouragement to give up revenue from other musicians performing their material. But hey, it's a free country. Encourage away.

Well I prefer to be innovative and focus on strengths positive things.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Our church project music lyrics on a screen. We pay a fee for doing unless the song happens to be in the public domain.

 

[geekette]

I'm just surprised they hit the venue for the fee instead of the performers. Or do they collect from both?

I would consider it work for hire in which case the customer should provide space, equipment, facility insurance, electricity, lights and everything else while the talent strolls in at show time to perform. I would never contract for a geek job and expect to pay for my own database license.

If the musician has his own showcase or records an album with copyrighted material, they are paying to do so. Further, they pay to copyright their own work. Nothing is free.

 

[theo]

I'm confused...

At first I thought it was a joke when I heard that Broadcast Music Inc. (aka music police) were hassling and threatening a resort I own at. This resort has a guy come in once a week and he plays music on his guitar while guests enjoy a pot luck dinner. The BMI demanded that they cease and desist unless they pay a yearly licensing fee to cover the copyrighted songs he was playing. As it turns out they consulted a copyright lawyer and he advised them BMI was backed by law and he recommenced they pay the minimum fee of about $250 per year. I guess they are going to do it to satisfy the demands.

I googled the subject and found many cases where this is taking place. BMI has headhunters who scout for them and visit venues looking for 'violations'. They claim you are not even allowed to play music over the radio from a music station without paying if it can be heard by a group of guests or pubic.

There are two additional music associations representing music artists and if you pay one the other two will be in line to get paid too. Other resorts in the area have heard of this outcome and are holding their breath awaiting their letter in the mail.

I know little to nothing about the area of music copyright law or its' application, but one question comes immediately to mind nonetheless --- doesn't it matter whether or not there is a commercial aspect to performing the material of others?

For example, if the fellow entertaining resort guests (and presumably getting paid to do so) was instead an owner / guest voluntarily playing for free to entertain friends, are you suggesting that this hypothetical benevolent "performer", deriving no payment or profit whatsoever, would somehow owe royalties for playing / singing a copyrighted song beside the pool?

 

[SMHarman]

I know little to nothing about the area of music copyright law or its' application, but one question comes immediately to mind nonetheless --- doesn't it matter whether or not there is a commercial aspect to performing the material of others?

For example, if the fellow entertaining resort guests (and presumably getting paid to do so) was instead an owner / guest voluntarily playing for free to entertain friends, are you suggesting that this hypothetical benevolent "performer", deriving no payment or profit whatsoever, would somehow owe royalties for playing / singing a copyrighted song beside the pool?

That would be a performance in a public space. So yes. Pay up.
Do it in your hotel room or home a private space and no royalty.
Just like the royalty in your DVD / Netflix stream is for a private space.

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[bryanphunter]

That would be a performance in a public space. So yes. Pay up.
Do it in your hotel room or home a private space and no royalty.
Just like the royalty in your DVD / Netflix stream is for a private space.

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So my camp counselor back in grade school that played "Dust in the Wind" with his guitar around the campfire owes the band Kansas a few bucks?

 

[SMHarman]

So my camp counselor back in grade school that played "Dust in the Wind" with his guitar around the campfire owes the band Kansas a few bucks?

Technically Yes

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[geoand]

I'm sure that you have had Kids in High School

Theater progams in High School will put on plays during the course of the year. They need to get permission to do a play when it is protected under copy wright laws. Sometimes, they have to pay a fee for the right. This goes for music performances by HS school programs.

 

[theo]

That would be a performance in a public space. So yes. Pay up.
Do it in your hotel room or home a private space and no royalty.
Just like the royalty in your DVD / Netflix stream is for a private space.

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I dunno if it matters, but is "around the pool" at a timeshare facility a "public" space at all to begin with? After all, it is private property and theoretically not even accessible or open to the "public", per se.

I'm not stating a position, just thinking about and questioning the parameters on the subject.

 

[SMHarman]

I dunno if it matters, but is "around the pool" at a timeshare facility a "public" space at all to begin with? After all, it is private property and theoretically not even accessible or open to the "public", per se.

I'm not stating a position, just thinking about and questioning the parameters on the subject. onder:

Above my pay grade. Talk to your lawyer.

I think this also depends on the timeshare. Those in the Marriott / Starwood / Hilton world that also are hotel it's likely to be a no quickly as there is often an open to the public poolside restaurant.

A smaller timeshare without open to public facilities. Maybe, coat benefit the value of fighting your position or paying the few hundred dollar fee.

 

[Laurie]

My understanding about these particular licenses is that it's not that it's a public space - it's that the venue (the resort) is enhancing its atmosphere, ie creating a better experience for paying customers, by playing the music.

So they do a sort of blanket license with a not-so-low minimum fee, and may require some sort of reporting as to exactly what got played. But note that indie artists rarely got paid anything even when their music is played.

Some years ago, ASCAP, BMI and the other one did the same thing to bookstores, (who often were playing promo copies of music they were selling, provided free by the labels - who didn't want royalties, they just wanted to sell their music there!!), and websites which provided online sound samples for the same reason - to sell the very same music. So no one involved thought this was fair or necesssary, instead it was an impediment.

But ASCAP/BMI/CESAC wouldn't differentiate between the 2 scenarios: playing music to promote sales of that very same recording, or playing music to make people want to come to the place and spend their money on other stuff.

 

[VegasBella]

The only legal way around this is for the performer to perform ONLY original material.

That's not true. Musicians can play music that is in the public domain or music that has been licensed as copyleft.

https://creativecommons.org/licenses/

https://musopen.org/

http://www.pdinfo.com/public-domain-music-list.php

There are also exceptions for parody, teaching, etc.

 

[theo]

Above my pay grade. Talk to your lawyer.

I think this also depends on the timeshare. Those in the Marriott / Starwood / Hilton world that also are hotel it's likely to be a no quickly as there is often an open to the public poolside restaurant.

A smaller timeshare without open to public facilities. Maybe, cost benefit the value of fighting your position or paying the few hundred dollar fee.

My weeks are all at smallish, independent facilities --- no "chains" imnvolved, no public access. That aside, if this absurdity ever got to the point that legal consultation or "fighting a position" became necessary to just accompany and complement a fellow guitar player around the pool --- solely to share a hobby, derive some amusement and maybe accidentally entertain a few others --- I just won't even bother.