Best way to buy in to Marriot

[jamescl]

Hi all, new TUG member and new to timeshares in general, looking to buy into Marriot the most savy way so apreciate the site and the advice of members.

I'm in Hawaii this week on a presenation invite, we ended up buying 4.000 points but the deal didn't sit right with me so I eventually found TUG, did a lot of reading, and I've written up my rescission letter to go in the mail tomorrow. I like a lot about the program, I do want to travel evey year, and also like Bonvoy membership status aspects (i.e. Platinum). I just don't like the huge retail buy in after seeing resale prices so I'm thinking of going that route even if it takes longer to pass ROFR and become and owner.

Here was my offer for context:
Resort: Ko Olina Beach Club, Oahu
Points: 4,000, $68,800 full retail
Discount: 20% + $4000 additional (comp stay, plus Bonvoy member discount)
Final Price : ~51,000 and 13.76 per point offer for 2 years
Incentives: 550,000 Bonvoy points + 4,000 one time use club points based on financing deal (11.7% rate, yikes!)

After running numbers after the deal, here are my thoughts:
1. I valued the incentives to be about 10K based on cost to buy the Bonvoy points (~5K) with cash, and (~4.5K) if I rented at this location from another owner. 2. If I got the 4,000 points through resale, it would cost me about 21K assuming $2 per point, plus fees to Marriot, and closing
3. If I combine 1 and 2, total cost to do the same "deal" myself would be 31K vs. the 51K + financing costs for the 18 months I need to hold it for.

So doing this retail is costing me 20-25K more than it should, thus I'm planning to cancel the agreement.

Since I do want to own and based on advice I'm seeing here, this is my game plan, I'd appreciate any wisdom to adjust it:
1. Start by renting from other owners
2. In order to rent, I need to be an owner, so buy the 1,000 club points which matches the Marriot min $3,000 fee required on resale (cost: ~6K)
3. In time, consider buying weeks from resale to exchange for points with lower maintaince fees. Some risk I can't get them into Abound easily and it may involve buying points retail from Marriot when offered (ugh).

Alternative 1: See if the sales team will negotiate a bundle offer (resale weeks through them + points). Pro: weeks are enrollled in Abound. Con: likely be pricey vs. going it alone per above.

Alternative 2: just buy the 4,000 or 7,000 points to get the flexibility and status I want through resale, avoid the hassle to find "good weeks" and get them into Abound. Live with the higher maintenance fees that come with points.

Questions I could use help with:

1. Any input on my game plan or alternatives

2. If I own weeks, will I be at risk of getting special assessments (i.e. price to replace the resort's roof, etc)? If so, I assume points don't get this, it's worked into the maintenance fees all point owners pay, no big assessments. True?

3. If they give me a bundle offer (doubtful since I'm not an existing owner), I assume I will likely come out ahead if bought my own resale weeks vs. go with a bundle offer (even after paying the costs to later get those weeks enrolled). True?

Many thanks for the advice and community this is!

 

[BJRSanDiego]

First, definitely rescind.

Right now you can buy points on the resale market for around $4 a point plus $3 extra paid to Marriott. So, for about $28,000 you could buy the same 4,000 points. IMHO, 4,000 points is about the minimum number of points to start with. Renting points is also a good idea. You'll find that it doesn't go that far in Hawaii if you are looking for a 1 or 2 BR unit with at least an ocean view and want to stay 7 nights.

Or you could buy deeded weeks. Right now they are selling at bargain prices, but they might not pass the ROFR. If you google it, you'll find that there are about 8 or 9 Marriott timeshares that are not subject to ROFR. Desert Springs I (Palm Desert) is one of them.

I own four Marriott 2BR deeded weeks and have always split them to get eight weeks of vacation a year. I typically exchange them into 2 BR units and pay the minor upgrade fee. I bought all on the resale market: 2 from eBay, 1 from a fellow Tugger and one through Redweek. My total purchase price for all four combined is about $10K.

To check ROFR prices (both weeks and points) that passed or failed, check out Dioxide45 website: rofr.net

 

[DanCali]

Congrats on finding TUG and rescinding! (and happy to see you're already a new tug member )

You seem to have read a lot and have a relatively good grasp of the issues. The problem with buying a week is you can only use it where you bought (or trade via II, which I personally dislike but others here do very well with that). The problem with buying Abound points are the high MFs and losing 50%+ of what you pay upfront due to the junk fees.

One thing to point out regarding your "Alternative 1" is the possibility of buying a week in Spain or Aruba and enrolling 1+ resale weeks in the process. Those deals are typically better than bundle deals offered in the US.

IMO, the most worthwhile thing out there within MVC right now is a Vistana "mandatory" resort ("mandatory" resorts can trade internally with points when bought resale). It will give you access to all the 20-25 Vistana resorts with Staroptions and, unlike MVC points, if you resell the week 6 months from now you can likely recoup most of what you paid. You can buy a 2BR lockoff at Westin Kierland for about $15K (with MFs of about $2100) which will give you enough "currency" to trade into 2BRs in peak season in places like Maui, Kauai, Atlantis , Cancun, Colorado, and others (basically all the Sheratons and Westins + Harborside resort at Atlantis). Some of those owners who remember the sub-$1500MFs at Kierland from a few short years ago are unhappy with the MF increases and are selling but, relatively speaking, it still offers the best flexibility and capital preservation combo, especially for someone looking to get into MVC now. Kierland is not the only "mandatory" resort - there are others too. You can study the tradeoffs in the Vistana forum.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Your best bang for the buck is buying a resale week. The value is greater, and the annual overhead is lower. Interval International will be your trading partner if you are not staying at your home resort and wish to trade elsewhere for a different location.

Some of the best value resale weeks are Marriott Grand Chateau or Marriott Grand Vista (Florida Club Week). I would advise to only buy a Platinum week.

Best of luck and welcome to TUG.






.

 

[claraj]

1. Start by renting from other owners
2. In order to rent, I need to be an owner, so buy the 1,000 club points which matches the Marriot min $3,000 fee required on resale (cost: ~6K)

For #1 do you mean renting points or renting stays?
For #2 This is true (need to be an owner to rent) if you are referring to points. However I believe the minimum purchase for a new owner is 1,500 points.

If you really want Platinum status, there are also other cheaper ways such as the Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant Amex card at $650 annual fee, gets you automatic Platinum status.

 

[jamescl]

Thank you all for the great tips.

Dan, I didn't know about the mandatory poperties, so I'll learn more about that. Thanks for the tip on bundling from those locations as well.

BJRSanDiego, $4 a point for resale points is higher than I'd expected, changes the math a bit, but I'd still be ahead vs the retail. Thanks for the heads up that it's not likely to be the $2 range I was assuming. I see quite a few listings at that price point but perhaps that's to trigger someone like me into making an offer than will get Marriot to pick it up. Seller is happy regardless but I'd be spinning my wheels chassing these prices perhaps.

TimeTraveler - I appreciate the property tips, helps me narrow with so many to look through for resale.

Claraj - I was thinking of renting stays to start. I assume I can do that without being an owner. Sounds like i need to be a point owner to receive transfer points, which would give me some flexibility to book things, and cancel/rebook if needed. If I rent a stay, I've seen people say you can't cancel, you are locked in to that date (so just have to have that in mind)

How about Question 2 above : regarding risk of special assessments when owning weeks?

 

[TXTortoise]

Special Assessments exist for points and weeks owners. For weeks owners it’s more obvious, $1200 over two years for Maui now and hurricanes on east coast. Generally not a big concern. Points pay their share, just buried in the annual MF with risk accrued across all resorts and allocated against annual MF.

The usual logic for weeks ownership is own where you want to go or buy good traders for use on Interval. Lots of search topics on this. If you really like Hawaii, buy Hawaii, even if EOY.

 

[Hindsite]

How about Question 2 above : regarding risk of special assessments when owning weeks?

As TXT says the risk relating to SAs isn't mitigated by owning points, as the points maint fees is made up of the maint fees of all the units held by the trust, so you could say its higher risk than with weeks, but the impact is possibly lower. With MVC, Sheraton and Westin the SA risk generally, but not always, relates to significantly damaging weather events, so buying a week in a location that doesn't suffer from that is a way to minimise the risk. I've not had any SA for the 3 different locations that I own in. If you choose a coastal or Caribbean location, the risk and potential impact is probably higher.

Your analysis doesn't seem to include the impact of maint fees, which is what you are actually committing to long term. Generally, even if you buy direct, as long as you use the ownership well you can cover the purchase cost in 10 years, after that its the maint fees that you need to manage. MVC has properties that have maint fees over $5k for a week and ones below $1.5k per week. With resale you can cover the initial cost in under 2-years.

As you see from BJR, owning a lock-off unit and using II to exchange can be a great way to extend the value of your ownership. You'll see posts about what is a good II trader with MVC Vegas lock-offs being popular, buy the highest season you can for the money if you go this way as maint fees are the same for all seasons at most resorts and popularity of the week is important for exchanging. Some TUGGERs favour buying where you want to go, others do well exchanging to go where they want to go.

Also, have you looked at other TS schemes, another brand may suit your travel patterns better?

Once you've done the prudent due diligence you have done, its a question of making a decision and then making that work for you, there is no single right answer. If you buy a lock-off week resale for very little money, then you can experiment with relatively low financial risk and sell on/give away if it doesn't work for you.

Another thing to think about is exit strategy. Make sure you understand how difficult or for what, if any, value you can resell for. I just picked a negative resale number for my analysis on the basis that I'd have to give away with offer to pay transfer costs.

Another good rule of thumb is never finance timeshare purchase, it kills any value you can get from it and makes disposing it very hard if you really, really need to for some reason.

All the best, do let us know how you get on ts always interesting to see how other approach the decision-making.

 

[Dean]

I agree with rescinding. I'd start by renting directly from members, not buying anything. Spend more time educating yourself so you can make the best decisions possible. Don't forget to look at other systems, there might be others that are better for your situation. Other than possible Spain if they have incentives, I don't know of a good and cheap way to get into the points system for a reasonable cost based on this last years information. IMO owning weeks is far better than points if you have to chose one or the other. Points will also shoulder any special assessments but it'd be spread out over a larger group so likely less. However, the points yearly fees are so much higher than you're essentially paying a sizable SA yearly compared to a good week.

 

[pedro47]

Rescind and just read TUG “Help and Advice.” section before you purchase a timeshare.
You May be able to save between $40,000 to $65.000 dollars or more.

 

[Michigan Czar]

For #1 do you mean renting points or renting stays?
For #2 This is true (need to be an owner to rent) if you are referring to points. However I believe the minimum purchase for a new owner is 1,500 points.

There is another option, rent points from owners that are willing to make the reservation for you. I do not own any points and have TUG friends that check availability and book the reservation for me and I pay them the point rental price.

 

[capjak]

Lots of options mix and match as you want........

Recently I was offered, For $10,000 you can enroll a resale Vistana week via a flex product. For $15,000 you can enroll 2 resale vistana weeks. One of the better ratios of MF to abound points is Westin Laguanamar. You could buy a Maui Vistana Mandatory OF for 22k (8000+ points) for maui booking window and Westin Lagunamar $8K (2750 I think) and spend 15K to enroll both to become "Presidential" which includes titanim bonvoy status. Total cost around $45,000 ish plus bonus points and bonvoy points and certs to purchase more bonvoy points.

 

[claraj]

@jamescl I am in agreement with the other posters that you may want to start with renting stays from other owners. You haven't said much about how you plan to travel besides wanting to travel every year. Is that once a year? Can you travel during off season? For a whole week? Are you traveling with a larger family or as a couple? Answers to those and other questions will help you decide the best approach in terms of points vs. weeks.

While points give you more flexibility if you don't want to stay somewhere for an entire week, it isn't always the easiest to reserve.

One other consideration is any level of ownership will give you access to Interval International (you would have to pay a membership fee if you buy resale) and you will get access to Getaways (which the sales team might have told you about) . I've supplemented my travel with these weeks at Vail and Orlando for $300 (1BR) -$650 (2BR) for a week. In other words I'm trying to say you may not need to over commit to more points or weeks with Getaways in mind.

 

[tourproto]

Some of those owners who remember the sub-$1500MFs at Kierland from a few short years ago are unhappy with the MF increases and are selling but, relatively speaking, it still offers the best flexibility and capital preservation combo, especially for someone looking to get into MVC now. Kierland is not the only "mandatory" resort - there are others too. You can study the tradeoffs in the Vistana forum.

Yeah, I am not thrilled with the escalation of MFs, but the flexibility of the StarOptions and the desirability to rent weeks is awesome. I just rented 2 weeks in a 1BR premium for more than the MFs, so I covered this year's expenses and still have 130K and change StarOptions left to use or bank.

In the past we have easily gotten up to 2 weeks at the Westin Princeville booking during open season and I can get short stay at Westin Desert Willows pretty much anytime outside of Coachella.

I have not yet tried to stay at a Marriott property, and not sure when (or if) I will ever do so. And I don't use II or RCI? I feel I always get scammed with them. If I have spare points, I book at a desirable location and rent it out on RW.

 

[DanCali]

Yeah, I am not thrilled with the escalation of MFs, but the flexibility of the StarOptions and the desirability to rent weeks is awesome. I just rented 2 weeks in a 1BR premium for more than the MFs, so I covered this year's expenses and still have 130K and change StarOptions left to use or bank.

I don't disagree with you that there is still plenty of value with WKV (Platinum). That's why it still sells for around $15K resale. But with MFs increasing over 22% in 2 years and flat rental rates, the value is not what it used to be.

Whether you use it to go to Maui, or rent it for 2x the MFs (you can't do that with many timeshares), in the past that trip to Maui cost you a lot less in $/Staroption, or you could rent it for closer to 3x the MFs.

My main worry is what happens with Gold and Silver weeks. The value there is a lot more iffy and those owners have to keep paying MFs every year. If those owners start bailing, that's unhealthy for the entire resort - just look at Harborside Platinum resale prices.

 

[tourproto]

I don't disagree with you that there is still plenty of value with WKV (Platinum). That's why it still sells for around $15K resale. But with MFs increasing over 22% in 2 years and flat rental rates, the value is not what it used to be.

Whether you use it to go to Maui, or rent it for 2x the MFs (you can't do that with many timeshares), in the past that trip to Maui cost you a lot less in $/Staroption, or you could rent it for closer to 3x the MFs.

My main worry is what happens with Gold and Silver weeks. The value there is a lot more iffy and those owners have to keep paying MFs every year. If those owners start bailing, that's unhealthy for the entire resort - just look at Harborside Platinum resale prices.

For sure. I am trying to help out my cousin who is (in turn) trying to help is parents out of Marriott weeks in Palm Springs (I told him he could list the timeshare weeks for $1 and he still might not be able to sell them because they aren't "platinum" season, I don't remember what the Marriott equivalent is)

As for me, the ability to make some $$$ from renting my WKV is just icing on the cake. I am pretty close to retirement, and the plan is to buy 3-4 more WKV platinum 2bd lockoff units so I can ladder together 2-3 months at WKV in the dead of winter in Portland. Even at $2k MFs right now, To take 5 WKV 2bd LO units and turn it into 8 consecutive weeks of a 1 BD premium for $10K is totally worth it to me. I could probably do an AirBNB or VRBO for 2 months for less, but the amenities at WKV make it worth it to me.

If the MFs start climbing to $3K then I might have to figure something else to do because at $15K, the math gets murky for what WKV is to me. I hope that doesn't happen...

 

[TUGBrian]

68k is a crazy amount of money to plop down for 4000 points! so very glad you found TUG...you saved an absolute FORTUNE!

 

[byeloe]

To take 5 WKV 2bd LO units and turn it into 8 consecutive weeks of a 1 BD premium

You might have some trouble booking some of your time at the 8 month window.

 

[DeeCee]

“The usual logic for weeks ownership is own where you want to go or buy good traders for use on Interval. Lots of search topics on this. If you really like Hawaii, buy Hawaii, even if EOY.”

I agree with above 100%. Buy where you want to stay the most. That said, I know nothing about buying in Hawaii, such as, can you buy a resale week (or two), or does it have to be points?

We love Hilton Head Island so when we did our presentation back in 2016 and saw the then points system was $30,000+ for about 2000 points, we signed and took all the info back to our hotel so I could see exactly how many nights in a beach resort 2 bedroom every Easter week (I worked for a school district) it would get us. Turned out to be 5 nights.

We rescinded the next day and started our search for a resale week. I think we paid alittle too much considering the resale prices now for the same season at our resort (Gold Season), but it was a 6th of the retail cost and gives us 7 nights a year either Spring or Fall, which now works for us as I am retired and can travel outside of school vacations.
Our MF’s have increased each year, as they all do but still less than what MF’s on 2000 points would be.

So, if you are at all interested in weeks via the resale market….you will save a ton of money. Our purchase price plus transfer fees plus MF’s over the last 7 years are still less then what it would cost to rent the rooms on discounted rack rates every year combined. We have no regrets. We can also turn the week into Bonvoy points EOY if we choose, but I find that not cost effective.

Best of luck with your research and purchase! TUG is a very valuable resource for this endeavor.

Enjoy your travels,
Dee

 

[vacationtime1]

. . . . To take 5 WKV 2bd LO units and turn it into 8 consecutive weeks of a 1 BD premium for $10K is totally worth it to me. . . .

You might have some trouble booking some of your time at the 8 month window.

If your intention is to reserve the larger side one bedroom unit during the February - April period, you will be hardpressed to get those reservations at the eight month mark. You may find the occasional cancellation, but in the long run, you will be very disappointed. Those units are fully reserved within minutes of midnight on the relevant days.

If your intention is to string together a mix of large side one bedroom and small side one bedroom units reserved at the twelve month mark, you will generally succeed, although you will frequently be frustrated by Marriott's lousy IT situation for making reservations. Be online at midnight every week if you want to compete.

 

[Ladyskir]

Congrats on finding TUG and rescinding! (and happy to see you're already a new tug member )

You seem to have read a lot and have a relatively good grasp of the issues. The problem with buying a week is you can only use it where you bought (or trade via II, which I personally dislike but others here do very well with that). The problem with buying Abound points are the high MFs and losing 50%+ of what you pay upfront due to the junk fees.

One thing to point out regarding your "Alternative 1" is the possibility of buying a week in Spain or Aruba and enrolling 1+ resale weeks in the process. Those deals are typically better than bundle deals offered in the US.

IMO, the most worthwhile thing out there within MVC right now is a Vistana "mandatory" resort ("mandatory" resorts can trade internally with points when bought resale). It will give you access to all the 20-25 Vistana resorts with Staroptions and, unlike MVC points, if you resell the week 6 months from now you can likely recoup most of what you paid. You can buy a 2BR lockoff at Westin Kierland for about $15K (with MFs of about $2100) which will give you enough "currency" to trade into 2BRs in peak season in places like Maui, Kauai, Atlantis , Cancun, Colorado, and others (basically all the Sheratons and Westins + Harborside resort at Atlantis). Some of those owners who remember the sub-$1500MFs at Kierland from a few short years ago are unhappy with the MF increases and are selling but, relatively speaking, it still offers the best flexibility and capital preservation combo, especially for someone looking to get into MVC now. Kierland is not the only "mandatory" resort - there are others too. You can study the tradeoffs in the Vistana forum.

So buying Kierland resale is an "auto" into the trading Vistana system unlike buying resale Sheraton Desert Oasis a couple miles away?

 

[vacationtime1]

So buying Kierland resale is an "auto" into the trading Vistana system unlike buying resale Sheraton Desert Oasis a couple miles away?

Kierland is a "mandatory" property with transferable StarOptions. StarOptions permit direct reservations at the eight month mark for available inventory, rather than the less certain Interval trading you get with SDO. See https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/s...-to-timesharing-or-starwood-start-here.63224/

 

[lidi66]

If your intention is to reserve the larger side one bedroom unit during the February - April period, you will be hardpressed to get those reservations at the eight month mark. You may find the occasional cancellation, but in the long run, you will be very disappointed. Those units are fully reserved within minutes of midnight on the relevant days.

If your intention is to string together a mix of large side one bedroom and small side one bedroom units reserved at the twelve month mark, you will generally succeed, although you will frequently be frustrated by Marriott's lousy IT situation for making reservations. Be online at midnight every week if you want to compete.

Does Westin Kierland get Marriott preference in Interval?

 

[vacationtime1]

Does Westin Kierland get Marriott preference in Interval?

Kierland has a secondary preference for Marriott units (Vistana owners "see" Marriott deposits after Marriott owners but before everyone else). Kierland has a Vistana preference in Interval which is really useful for snagging Hawaii units.

That said, I either rent my Kierland units at a substantial profit or use them for StarOption reservations; there are cheaper ways of leveraging Vistana units for favorable Interval trades (SDO, SPB, etc.).

 

[tourproto]

If your intention is to reserve the larger side one bedroom unit during the February - April period, you will be hardpressed to get those reservations at the eight month mark. You may find the occasional cancellation, but in the long run, you will be very disappointed. Those units are fully reserved within minutes of midnight on the relevant days.

If your intention is to string together a mix of large side one bedroom and small side one bedroom units reserved at the twelve month mark, you will generally succeed, although you will frequently be frustrated by Marriott's lousy IT situation for making reservations. Be online at midnight every week if you want to compete.

You might have some trouble booking some of your time at the 8 month window.

So I have had no problem so far doing this (several years now), and the weeks I usually book are after Valentines Day in Feb through mid-March (when Spring Training ends).

Yes, I am online at midnight when the 8 month window opens up, but I have been able to secure the 1bd premiums.

I just don't see actual WKV owners all exercising their points from 12months to 8 months. Maybe that will change especially as Marriott continues to f-around with the combined timeshares. I guess if that does happen, I will book all the 1bd premium weeks I can at the 12 month mark and use the aggregated 67k points from the smaller side and head to Kauai (or Maui). As long as I was somewhat flexible on dates, I have been able to book Princeville without a problem at the 8 month window.