Being Picked Last :( Wyndham Timeshare Presentation Experience

[dioxide45]

I was never the best athlete in high school, in fact I wasn't good. Thus resulting in being picked last or near to last when teams were chosen. I felt that way recently at a timeshare presentation. Though this time it was something to be proud of

We recently visited both Desert Blue and Grand Desert in Las Vegas. I turned down a timeshare update at Desert Blue. Though not after being double teamed and badgered to attend. We were only there three nights and had other engagements. So it wasn't an option. I had to just walk away from the desk as it was unrelenting from two different employees. I never really experience this before as the last time we were asked we signed up.

Then it came to Grand Desert. We were offered only half the inventive to attend that they were trying to offer us at Desert Blue. We opt for the Wyndham Reward points to fill in gaps in our travel. I said I would not sign up unless they could offer the same. The guy said he couldn't do that but he would get my $100 gift card ready. I don't want a crappy gift card. Then they tried to offer me the 7 night RCI certificate. I told him that was a waste. I wanted the same offer as Desert Blue offered. Since that was apparently a no go, I said thanks but no thanks. Then when I was walking back through the lobby past the desk the guy flagged me down and said he talked to his boss and that they could do it. Great! I signed up, but I refused to give them a credit card to charge $40 just for them to refund later. He waived it.

Now to the actual presentation. We arrived and after checkin were directed to a room to watch the short presentation before you meet with your salesperson. Once everyone was in the room, a rather strange presentation ensued. Only strange because the presenter would speak in ways that didn't make sense. Breaking up sentences with pauses in strange places. My wife and I looked at each other like, WTH is this. Anyway. When it was over they said our salesperson would be in to take us back. I said to my wife right then and there "we will be the last ones in this room". As we bought resale. Sure enough, everyone is quickly taken away and there we are, just us.

After a few minutes a guy comes in claiming to be one of the sale managers. I suspect he was. I suspect he earns commission based on the sales of his team. He has a sheet on it and said that no one wanted to come for us because of what was highlighted in yellow. 100% resale. He went on to explain that was why we were the last ones there. He explained that we should turn down the sale presentation and not waste their time. I explained how and why we signed up. He wasn't overly rude, but could tell he wasn't happy we were there. I don't ever tell salespeople to stop inviting us or stop incentivizing us. After earning over 1.5 million Bonvoy points from sales presentations, we want to ride it as long as we can. If we say they should just stop asking us to come, then the gig might just end. All in all, we were in and out in about 40 minutes. Much of it devoted to the 10-15 minutes of them going through the group presentation and then sitting and waiting.

 

[marmite]

After earning over 1.5 million Bonvoy points from sales presentations, we want to ride it as long as we can.

I am in awe. Well done! I have been avoiding presentations all these years and just went to my first one this past week.

 

[silentg]

I never go anymore. I sight my age and time is important to spend my vacation without salespeople presenting me with things I don’t want or need anymore.

 

[WorldT]

Doesn't hurt to be last in this case. Or was it like not picked at all?
Just got back from The Summit at Massanuten. I rejected the offer at check-in and received a call the next morning with an increase amount on the gift card. Took it. The guy gave up after finding out my only two units were obtained at no cost this year.
I warned them I will not be buying anything but they called again. What is a person to do? Pass up an opportunity to reduce travel cost?

 

[paxsarah]

He explained that we should turn down the sale presentation and not waste their time.

It is exactly this attitude that's one of the obvious tip-offs when salespeople try to post in the Facebook groups. If they don't want you there, they should tell their marketing people not to ask you. Or they should tell their marketing people to tell owners only to come if they have an interest in purchasing because there's no other reason to be there (lol). It's not the owner's fault.

 

[bnoble]

The problem is that the two sets of employees are incentivized differently, and so they are (or at least can be) at cross-purposes.

The first set--the concierge desk--is measured purely on how many people they sign up within the bounds of the gifts they are empowered to offer. They may also be measured on how little they can spend in incentives per week to hit their tour flow target. They DO NOT CARE about how likely (or not) it is that the tour prospect can be converted to a sale. They may care about certain disqualifying features, but those are pretty minimal.

The second set--the sales agents--are measured on deal flow, and to a lesser extent tour conversion rate. They care VERY MUCH about how likely it is that someone might buy.

So, perhaps the most helpful response to the sales agent: "Give your lead generators better guidance about who they should and should not sign up, and whether or not they should add extra incentives to get any prospect in the room." The real sin in this case is not that they signed you up. It is that they spent extra resources to get you there. Alternatively, assign a score to each known prospect, and have the prospect generators try to hit a score total, not a person total. And that might make the most sense. If there was "spare capacity" in the sales force for your tour slot, you would have been given the full shakedown by the lowest-seniority agent. That won't help the agent get paid, but it will give them valuable experience for later.

 

[rickandcindy23]

You meant Grand Desert and not Grand Ocean, right? Freudian slip, thinking, "Marriott never treats us like that." True, Marriott does not treat owners like this at the sales' table. They know they have the best product and you might come back and buy.

What did you think of Desert Blue? Never stayed there, but we really like Grand Desert.

Still, Marriott's Grand Chateau is prettier and classier. The parking alone is much better at Grand Chateau, mandatory valet.

 

[bnoble]

You know, the more I think about it: it is not hard at all for a lead generator to be told how valuable a given prospect might be. Maybe 15 years or so ago, Delta mis-configured their web server in a way that allowed customers to download (some of) their CRM descriptors. One of those was their Experian Mosaic category. At the time, I was classified as Kids and Cabernet, which wasn't quite perfect (I was and am a limousine liberal) but it was pretty close.

Mosaic is very old technology, and probably not terribly expensive given the micro-targeting possible under surveillance capitalism. It should be relatively inexpensive for Wyndham (or any timeshare developer) to translate from Mosaic categories, plus their own internal data, and turn that into a prospect favorability rating. Heck, for all I know they are already doing this.

 

[bizaro86]

You know, the more I think about it: it is not hard at all for a lead generator to be told how valuable a given prospect might be. Maybe 15 years or so ago, Delta mis-configured their web server in a way that allowed customers to download (some of) their CRM descriptors. One of those was their Experian Mosaic category. At the time, I was classified as Kids and Cabernet, which wasn't quite perfect (I was and am a limousine liberal) but it was pretty close.

Mosaic is very old technology, and probably not terribly expensive given the micro-targeting possible under surveillance capitalism. It should be relatively inexpensive for Wyndham (or any timeshare developer) to translate from Mosaic categories, plus their own internal data, and turn that into a prospect favorability rating. Heck, for all I know they are already doing this.

I'm quite confident they do. There have been reports of very different offers at the same time/place for different people.

It makes sense that someone who has bought retail 3 presentations in a row and is close to the next VIP level is more valuable as a tour than someone who owns multiple resale-only deeds 25 years ago.

It would make sense to compensate the body snatchers differently based on that as well as provide different gift levels.

How good the different developers are at this is probably a big factor in their success.

 

[dioxide45]

You meant Grand Desert and not Grand Ocean, right? Freudian slip, thinking, "Marriott never treats us like that." True, Marriott does not treat owners like this at the sales' table. They know they have the best product and you might come back and buy.

What did you think of Desert Blue? Never stayed there, but we really like Grand Desert.

Still, Marriott's Grand Chateau is prettier and classier. The parking alone is much better at Grand Chateau, mandatory valet.

Oops, sorry. I did mean Grand Desert. As I was writing my post, I found myself typing Grand Ocean or even Ocean Blue instead of Grand Desert and Desert Blue. I fixed it. Desert Blue has issues. The resort is nice enough, but the rooms are super small compared to Grand Desert. We were in a Margarittaville room which was nice. The pool is also somewhat separated from the resort. From someone who commented on my resort tour video of Desert Blue, there was supposed to be a second tower that would have been behind the pool area. It was never built.

I agree that Grand Chateau is very nice. We are here now. Though I do like the parking situation much better at Grand Desert and Desert Blue. Desert Blue has optional free valet, but both of them have free self parking. I like just going down and getting in my car. At Grand Chateau you may have to wait 10-15 minutes for them to pull your car around. Though it is often quicker. Then you gotta tip someone for doing so.

 

[dioxide45]

So, perhaps the most helpful response to the sales agent: "Give your lead generators better guidance about who they should and should not sign up, and whether or not they should add extra incentives to get any prospect in the room." The real sin in this case is not that they signed you up. It is that they spent extra resources to get you there. Alternatively, assign a score to each known prospect, and have the prospect generators try to hit a score total, not a person total. And that might make the most sense. If there was "spare capacity" in the sales force for your tour slot, you would have been given the full shakedown by the lowest-seniority agent. That won't help the agent get paid, but it will give them valuable experience for later.

That would seem to make sense and I suspect some developers do that. We don't get great offers from Vistana. Every once in a while they will pitch us 40,000 Bonvoy points, which is average. Though most times it is just 20,000-25,000. Though they did offer us 40,000 recently at Sheraton Desert Oasis. After more than 70 presentations at MVC, they keep making us offers. We keep signing up. I don't understand the methods, but just continue to work the game.

 

[Floridaman76]

Some people get too hot and bothered by the wristband mafia, I just play them for all I can. If I have time, I will sit through their nonsense for $200. If I have plans, then it's non-negotiable, but if I have some "fluff" in my schedule, or if it looks like weather might impact one of my days, I will take them. The least I will accept is $150. Despite what they tell you, they can go higher than $100.

There was one really obnoxious woman at Governors Green who got me mad once, but other than her, most of them know when it's time to drop it.

 

[Danlop88]

Oops, sorry. I did mean Grand Desert. As I was writing my post, I found myself typing Grand Ocean or even Ocean Blue instead of Grand Desert and Desert Blue. I fixed it. Desert Blue has issues. The resort is nice enough, but the rooms are super small compared to Grand Desert. We were in a Margarittaville room which was nice. The pool is also somewhat separated from the resort. From someone who commented on my resort tour video of Desert Blue, there was supposed to be a second tower that would have been behind the pool area. It was never built.

I agree that Grand Chateau is very nice. We are here now. Though I do like the parking situation much better at Grand Desert and Desert Blue. Desert Blue has optional free valet, but both of them have free self parking. I like just going down and getting in my car. At Grand Chateau you may have to wait 10-15 minutes for them to pull your car around. Though it is often quicker. Then you gotta tip someone for doing so.

Are you going to be dropping a tour video of the Grand Chateau as well?

 

[Code3]

Just came back from Wyndham Oceanside. You check in and they give you a room key, but wait they also have wrist bands at the check in area, so I asked can we get two of these. Of course you have to head over to the other counter where they will ask you to attend an "update," They asked us to attend a 60 minute presentation, I asked what are you offering for our precious time. $125.00 GC or MasterCard. I asked for $200, they said no, we can't do that. I said no worries. While walking away, the lady says wait a second the most we can offer is $150.00. They lady guaranteed it will only take 60 mins. Long story short, I said ok (since my wifey got a new car) I needed to get her some accessories so the $150.00 will be put to good use. The day of the presentation I told the sales rep. I have been timing this presentation from the beginning, and we will walk out when the time goes off. We turned down every offer and got my MC via text link. Damn I gave her an extra 10 mins

 

[LannyPC]

....without salespeople presenting me with things I don’t want or need anymore.

...or trying to convince you how stupid you are for not jumping at the "deal" they're offering you.

 

[VAlegacy]

Just came back from Wyndham Oceanside. You check in and they give you a room key, but wait they also have wrist bands at the check in area, so I asked can we get two of these. Of course you have to head over to the other counter where they will ask you to attend an "update," They asked us to attend a 60 minute presentation, I asked what are you offering for our precious time. $125.00 GC or MasterCard. I asked for $200, they said no, we can't do that. I said no worries. While walking away, the lady says wait a second the most we can offer is $150.00. They lady guaranteed it will only take 60 mins. Long story short, I said ok (since my wifey got a new car) I needed to get her some accessories so the $150.00 will be put to good use. The day of the presentation I told the sales rep. I have been timing this presentation from the beginning, and we will walk out when the time goes off. We turned down every offer and got my MC via text link. Damn I gave her an extra 10 mins

Recently, I have just started bypassing the concierge table altogether. It makes for an awkward experience at places like Bonnet Creek where the concierge table is directly in the walk-path leaving check-in, but there's also a bit of satisfaction there.
I return to the check-in desk later that evening or in the morning. I have even had them program wristbands at the check-in desk during normal operating hours, much to the chagrin of concierge.

 

[comicbookman]

At Ocean Boulevard, at our last stay in august, they said they could see from out account that we would require a large incentive to attend a meeting. She handed us the list of incentives (show and dinner vouchers) and said does any of this interest you. My wife said we were thinking about Medieval times, but it was not on the list. She said she could do that how many tickets would you need. We said 4 adult and 2 children (about $350 worth of tickets, we had been looking at deals). she said I can do that, and we signed up. The group presentation was short and the sales person we were assigned understood immediately that we were not going to buy more points. We had a pleasant conversation, mostly about grandchildren, then she called over the closer. He said hello then disappeared to get out printed offer (none had been discussed) returned a few minutes later with an offer to buy a bunch (I did not look at the amount) of points for over 200k. We of course said no and he said a pleasure to meet you and left. Elapsed time just over 1 hr. No pushing, no bull and a very decent gift to a show we intended to go to anyway and new the cost of. It was the weirdest sales meeting I have been to in our 30 years of ownership. The most lucrative as well.

 

[kaljor]

That was a great summary of how these things work. It is a simple situation to handle for informed people like us who are part of TUG. The ONLY question is what will you do for $100 or $150? I'm always up for an extra C Note to spend on my resort stay. I always insist on the earliest appointment on my first morning, when I would probably just be sleeping anyway. I just have never had a problem saying no to buying something I don't want and I really don't need. I don't think that's impolite at all, regardless of how important my "yes" could be for the seller.

But I have learned from this thread that I should probably start holding out for $150. One time I said no in the lobby three times when I passed the "Concierge" desk because I really wasn't in the mood. Then I got a phone call with an offer for $200. I politely informed the agent that yes, I can be bought for $200!

One kind of funny anecdote. I'm 100% resale, and I bought only after discovering TUG, so I was completely aware of the sales techniques. My first stay was at Ocean Walk, and I had steeled myself to just say NO to the offer in the lobby. Which I did. I think the best offer at that time (over 10 years ago) was $75 and i proudly turned it down. My first night there I went to dinner at the Steakhouse in the Hilton next door (which I really like) and the total (dining alone) was something like $90. As I left I kept thinking how I could have had a very nice steak dinner that night for almost free.

I don't know how Wyndham decides how or when to offer this cash, but I have made it a policy to attend a sales presentation for $100. As I said above, I will start holding out for more in the future. I don't really NEED the money, but in my mind I think of it as reducing my annual maintenance fees.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Some people get too hot and bothered by the wristband mafia, I just play them for all I can. If I have time, I will sit through their nonsense for $200. If I have plans, then it's non-negotiable, but if I have some "fluff" in my schedule, or if it looks like weather might impact one of my days, I will take them. The least I will accept is $150. Despite what they tell you, they can go higher than $100.

There was one really obnoxious woman at Governors Green who got me mad once, but other than her, most of them know when it's time to drop it.

AFAIK she is no longer with Wyndham. She was legendary at GG for sure.

 

[HitchHiker71]

You know, the more I think about it: it is not hard at all for a lead generator to be told how valuable a given prospect might be. Maybe 15 years or so ago, Delta mis-configured their web server in a way that allowed customers to download (some of) their CRM descriptors. One of those was their Experian Mosaic category. At the time, I was classified as Kids and Cabernet, which wasn't quite perfect (I was and am a limousine liberal) but it was pretty close.

Mosaic is very old technology, and probably not terribly expensive given the micro-targeting possible under surveillance capitalism. It should be relatively inexpensive for Wyndham (or any timeshare developer) to translate from Mosaic categories, plus their own internal data, and turn that into a prospect favorability rating. Heck, for all I know they are already doing this.

Wyndham has this type of data readily at hand - I've seen the screens firsthand over the years - they do have their own equivalent of a favorability rating basically. I've gotten to know a few of the concierge desk employees that have shown me their data points when I've asked to see what they are seeing for lead qualification.

The problem is that it all depends on where that particular concierge and/or the overall concierge team sits at the time you walk up to the concierge desk. For example, we typically check in well after 4:00 PM for our weekend getaways, typically between 7-9 PM once we arrive on a Friday night since we don't leave until end of business (we both work full time jobs), and then we have to pack the car and drive for 2-2.5 hours on average. By then, either the concierge doesn't really care much at all, because they have met their daily quota already, or they are pretty pushy because it's late in the day and they have not yet met their quota. If it's the latter, then lead qualification details don't mean much to them because they aren't making quota - and every single mark counts regardless of the quality of the lead.

 

[dioxide45]

Are you going to be dropping a tour video of the Grand Chateau as well?

I already have a resort tour video from Grand Chateau, but I do hope to publish a revised on from this trip.

 

[Panzerman45]

We go to these owner updates for a few reasons. First, we have nothing else to do, even on "vacation" there is plenty of down time. Plus both being retired, we have 365 days a year available 24/7.
We are traveling throughout the year overseas and the States. A couple hours to attend does not waste our ample free time.
Second, I want a pile Wyndham/Hyatt/IHG points or a $200 Visa gift card for my attendance. This keeps me coming back to these "owner updates" with Wyndham, Hyatt and Holiday Inn.
Third, I enjoy playing with the salesman and manager and seeing if I can get them confused.