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Bali Hai - Too Good to be True?

h100

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Hi all.

I currently own 126,000 points at Glacier Canyon in WI. I bought there (resale) for the ARP.

I would like to own more points (wouldn't we all, LOL) as we take 3 shorter trips per year, stay in 2BR units, and I could use the extra house-keeping credits and points (it takes 77 house-keeping credits per stay, 3 X 77 = 231, so I would like at least a total of 231 points).

I could currently buy 126,000 points at Bali Hai for a somewhat nominal amount, and the MF and taxes there would only be about $425/year. I would buy these points not to stay at Bali Hai, but to use elsewhere instead.

The Bali Hai MFs/taxes seem EXTREMELY low - is there something I'm missing, or should I jump at this? I will definately be buying at least 105,000 more points somewhere. In the future I will probably travel to Mountain Vista in Branson, to Smoky Mountains in TN, and to various places in FL, all easy to get at 10 months out, but most of my trips will be short to Glacier Canyon.

Any comments, especially about fees or issues I'm overlooking buying a Hawaiian timeshare just for the points to use elsewhere, are greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Dave
 

learnalot

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Hi all.

I currently own 126,000 points at Glacier Canyon in WI. I bought there (resale) for the ARP.

I would like to own more points (wouldn't we all, LOL) as we take 3 shorter trips per year, stay in 2BR units, and I could use the extra house-keeping credits and points (it takes 77 house-keeping credits per stay, 3 X 77 = 231, so I would like at least a total of 231 points).

I could currently buy 126,000 points at Bali Hai for a somewhat nominal amount, and the MF and taxes there would only be about $425/year. I would buy these points not to stay at Bali Hai, but to use elsewhere instead.

The Bali Hai MFs/taxes seem EXTREMELY low - is there something I'm missing, or should I jump at this? I will definately be buying at least 105,000 more points somewhere. In the future I will probably travel to Mountain Vista in Branson, to Smoky Mountains in TN, and to various places in FL, all easy to get at 10 months out, but most of my trips will be short to Glacier Canyon.

Any comments, especially about fees or issues I'm overlooking buying a Hawaiian timeshare just for the points to use elsewhere, are greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Dave

The maintenance fees are low but historically, maintenance fees are always low at resorts that are still in active sales. The developer subsidizes them for a period of time, which artificially suppresses them and helps spur sales. Then, when most of the inventory has been sold, the developer stops subsidizing and the maintenance fees spike. This is an observable trend if you look at historical data.
 

h100

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Bali Hai

Learnalot:

How long, in your opinion, is long enough to wait to be reasonably certain that developer subsidies have ended? Looks like Wyndham has had this for 5-6 years already. . .

I found the following on-line:

KAUAI, HI. (July 20, 2006) – Wyndham Vacation Ownership, Inc., the world's largest vacation ownership company, today announced it has acquired Hawaii-based, privately-held PAHIO Resorts, Inc. (PRI) and PAHIO Vacation Ownership, Inc., (PVO) located on Kauai. Wyndham Vacation Ownership will assume all property management, sales and marketing operations of Bali Hai Villas, Ka Eo Kai, Kauai Beach Villas, Shearwater, and Makai resorts. Additionally, Wyndham Vacation Ownership has entered into an exclusive relationship with the developer David Walters to expand the Bali Hai Villas resort, which includes plans to add more than 125 vacation ownership units and a new club house.

Thanks!

Dave
 

siesta

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I personally wouldnt buy in Hawaii unless i needed the ARP, simply because of the legislature's attitude towards TS in general. That being said they do have lower MF than some other Wyndham resorts, as well as access to TPI.
 

h100

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Bali Hai

Siesta:

I definately don't need the ARP or TPI, just looking for low MFs to suppliment the contract I already have (I bought the Glacier Canyon contract for ARP, I live in WI and it gets busy during prime season, now just looking for cheap points that will hopefully stay cheap).

Now you have me curious re the Hawaiian legislature's attitude towards timeshares. . . I have never considered the legaislature's attitude in a particular state as a factor to consider re buying a timeshare - what in the heck are you referring to :) ?

I did find this:

HI Timeshare Owner Tax Officially Defeated
Wednesday, May 04, 2011
Issue Brief
As expected, both the Hawaii House of Representatives and the Hawaii Senate voted to pass SB1186 SD2 HD1 CD1, ending what has been several months of concern that the Hawaii Legislature would increase taxes on timeshare owners by more than 300%. Since the introduction of several House bills that included timeshare tax increases, timeshare owners, developers, managers, employees and other hospitality industry members let their voices be heard that they opposed any increase in taxes on the timeshare industry. And thanks to a number of elected officials who understood the positive effects of the timeshare industry on the State of Hawaii, all of those who fought against this tax increase can breathe a collective sigh of relief that legislature will not increase taxes on timeshare owners in 2011.
Impact
Although the provision of SB1186 SD2 HD1 CD1 pertaining to the timeshare owners tax was removed from the bill, the bill did include one particular tax related item that might have an indirect effect on timeshare owners on a county level. The legislature placed a cap on the overall amount of transient accommodation tax revenues that are normally shared with the counties. This means that local governments could have an additional incentive to raise revenues, particularly property tax revenues. ARDA-ROC is already engaged in a property tax issue on Maui and will continue to monitor the various county councils for any possible activity that could have an adverse effect on timeshare owners.

Dave
 
Last edited:

siesta

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Siesta:

I definately don't need the ARP or TPI, just looking for low MFs to suppliment the contract I already have (I bought the Glacier Canyon contract for ARP, I live in WI and it gets busy during prime season, now just looking for cheap points that will hopefully stay cheap).

Now you have me curious re the Hawaiian legislature's attitude towards timeshares. . . I have never considered the legaislature's attitude in a particular state as a factor to consider re buying a timeshare - what in the heck are you referring to :) ?

Dave
primarily taxes and fees, that are continuing to be the focus for extra sources of revenue. TS owners are seen in a very different light than hotel patrons in the great state of Hawaii.
 

scootr5

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
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Marriott Grande Vista, Wyndham (points and Avenue Plaza Mardi Gras week)
just looking for low MFs to suppliment the contract I already have (I bought the Glacier Canyon contract for ARP, I live in WI and it gets busy during prime season, now just looking for cheap points that will hopefully stay cheap).

Keep in mind that any more points you buy won't be able to be used for ARP at Glacier Canyon, unless you buy points for GC.
 

h100

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Keep in mind that any more points you buy won't be able to be used for ARP at Glacier Canyon, unless you buy points for GC.
Thanks, Scott, I just need the 126,000 I already have to book at Glacier Canyon in the busy seasons using ARP, and I'll use the non-Glacier Canyon (126,000 Bali Hai) points to book elsewhere (or at Glacier Canyon in the off-season - a guy can only do so many days at a water park, though)!

As an aside, for MidWest Families out there, Glacier Canyon is great! 4 indoor waterparks, 3 outdoor waterparks, zip-lines, lazer-tag, black-light 3-D golf w/sharks in a tank next to you, and lots to do in the area, including hiking and rock climbing at Devil's Lake State Park. The accomodations are top notch.

Please keep the responses coming, I may buy these 126,000 Bali Hai points soon!

Any issues in general with buying in Hawaii?

Thanks!

Dave
 

rickandcindy23

TUG Review Crew: Elite
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Wyndham Founder; Disney OKW & SSR; Marriott's Willow Ridge and Shadow Ridge,Grand Chateau; Val Chatelle; Hono Koa OF (3); SBR(LOTS), SDO a few; Grand Palms(selling); WKORV-OF ,Westin Desert Willow.
Bali Hai costs 308K points to book a 2 bed lower level. That's why the points are so reasonably priced. 500K for a 3 bed penthouse, 400K for a 3 bedroom lower. I don't think the fees will go up outrageously. They put the point value high enough to support the Hawaii fees.

Compare to Wyndham Kona or Royal Seacliff. Values are very different. There is a penthouse at Waikiki Beach Walk worth (NOT REALLY) 1,000,000 points.... Fees are cheaper there too.
 

learnalot

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Learnalot:

How long, in your opinion, is long enough to wait to be reasonably certain that developer subsidies have ended? Looks like Wyndham has had this for 5-6 years already. . .

I found the following on-line:

KAUAI, HI. (July 20, 2006) – Wyndham Vacation Ownership, Inc., the world's largest vacation ownership company, today announced it has acquired Hawaii-based, privately-held PAHIO Resorts, Inc. (PRI) and PAHIO Vacation Ownership, Inc., (PVO) located on Kauai. Wyndham Vacation Ownership will assume all property management, sales and marketing operations of Bali Hai Villas, Ka Eo Kai, Kauai Beach Villas, Shearwater, and Makai resorts. Additionally, Wyndham Vacation Ownership has entered into an exclusive relationship with the developer David Walters to expand the Bali Hai Villas resort, which includes plans to add more than 125 vacation ownership units and a new club house.

Thanks!

Dave

Dave,

They acquired the property in 2006 but did not begin sales until they had done some upgrades. Some of the new construction is not even yet complete, so I feel comfortable saying that they are still in the developer subsidized phase.
 

jjmanthei05

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- a guy can only do so many days at a water park, though)!

BLASPHEMY!!!!! One can never have to many days in a water park! We go there for 4-5 weekends a year(the only reason we own wyndham). If you are looking for cheap MF, I would look towards smoky mountains in Tennessee. They have some of the lowest mf in the system.

Jason
 

h100

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WaterPark

BLASPHEMY!!!!! One can never have to many days in a water park! We go there for 4-5 weekends a year(the only reason we own wyndham). If you are looking for cheap MF, I would look towards smoky mountains in Tennessee. They have some of the lowest mf in the system.

Jason

Jason:

LOL!

The boys (ages 4 and 8) and Mama and I will be back in the water for an entire week in March 2012 (Spring Break) - actually, I can't wait! The wave pool area was the most relaxing of the 4 indoor water-parks, comfy chairs, margaritas (better than water in that water bottle), and sun in the winter through the transparent roof.

Glacier Canyon is the reason we got in to Wyndham, too (tough to find cheap points there). Not many good drive-able options when you live in the Midwest. I looked at Christmas Mountain Village, yuck, stuck in the 70s, not much to do there for the kids.

I have been close to buying more Wyndham resale points to supplement my 126,000 at Glacier Canyon (I need those for ARP in the busy times, 10 months works for the quieter seasons), and just want cheap. The Smoky Mountains look good, as does Mountain Vista in Branson (I can get 105,000 at either for $634 in MF and taxes per year, but the Bali Hai and Canterbury are CONSIDERABLY less. My comfort level is higher with a relatively close to home resort, but those others are so much cheaper.

What to do?

Dave
 
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