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Baja Point villas not part of The Westin Los Cabos Resort Villas & Spa anymore?

Italnsd

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Hello, does anyone know if the Baja Point villas have been recently separated from the main Westin Los Cabos resort? I tried to make a reservation for next October, as I am inside my home reservation period for the Los Cabos resort, and while there is availability at Baja Point, I am being told that I cannot reserve until February as the resort is "outside of your Home Resort reservation rules". I have been an owner for just about a year, so I might be mistaken, but I do not recall having ever heard before that Baja Point was not part of my home resort. Actually, it was Baja Point "sample villa" that was shown to me during my "presentation". Does anyone know if that's always been the case? Thanks
 

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jabberwocky

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Hello, does anyone know if the Baja Point villas have been recently separated from the main Westin Los Cabos resort? I tried to make a reservation for next October, as I am inside my home reservation period for the Los Cabos resort, and while there is availability at Baja Point, I am being told that I cannot reserve until February as the resort is "outside of your Home Resort reservation rules". I have been an owner for just about a year, so I might be mistaken, but I do not recall having ever heard before that Baja Point was not part of my home resort. Actually, it was Baja Point "sample villa" that was shown to me during my "presentation". Does anyone know if that's always been the case? Thanks
I assume you are an Aventuras owner? Does anyone know if they sold regular deeded weeks here? I thought it was all Aventuras - so there should not be availability concerns like you would have at Lagunamar (some Aventuras inventory and deeded weeks mixed at the same resort).
 

alexadeparis

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I think the problem is that the units sold at Cabo are not Baja Point because those were for the most part all sold out prior to the takeover, so they wouldn't be in the home use pool.
Only available with staroptions, and only if the Baja Point owner trades their unit in for Staroptions instead of using it themselves. Just like Westin St John, you buy into a Phase - that is your home phase you can go to other phases at 8 months, but you don't get the run of the entire resort for home use.
 

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Originally Baja Point was known as Gran Regina. It was not part of Westin or Club Regina (Raintree). People bought weeks at Gran Regina. We toured it about 15+ years ago. They Units were very nice but also very expensive. As I remember as the Westin Timeshare was reopening after the rebuild and reconfiruration post major hurricane Westin was trying to convince Owners of Gran Regina now Baja Point to buy into Westin Timeshares. They would give Westin their Gran Regina Weeks and also have a cash buy-in. So I doubt Westin owns all of Baja Point.
 

PamMo

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The Westin Los Cabos resort area was developed in several phases. There was the main Westin Resort (now the Westin Los Cabos Resort & Spa timeshares), the Club Regina Los Cabos timeshares (now Raintree Vacation Club), and the fractional ownership Grand Regina (now called Baja Point). Like @alexadeparis noted, the owners at Baja Point were not all rolled into the VSE network, so I highly doubt it is part of the Adventuras program.
 

dioxide45

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As others have stated, Baja Point is not part of Westin Aventuras. Only two resorts currently exist in Aventuras; Westin Lagunamar and Westin Los Cabos. Baja Point and the Westin Cancun can currently only be booked inside the StarOption 8 month period.
 

cubigbird

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As others have stated, Baja Point is not part of Westin Aventuras. Only two resorts currently exist in Aventuras; Westin Lagunamar and Westin Los Cabos. Baja Point and the Westin Cancun can currently only be booked inside the StarOption 8 month period.

Westin Cancún is actually bookable by Aventuras at 12 mos out. I own some Aventuras and am able to book that. I know, it’s weird….Aventuras owners can reserve at 12 months but inventory not technically within the Aventuras trust.
 

dioxide45

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Westin Cancún is actually bookable by Aventuras at 12 mos out. I own some Aventuras and am able to book that. I know, it’s weird….Aventuras owners can reserve at 12 months but inventory not technically within the Aventuras trust.
Interesting, good to know.
 

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Thanks for all the replies. I must admit I'm a bit confused by some of them, particularly because I am relatively new to the whole timeshare business. I can only tell my experience, as it is only from there that I derive my understanding.

I purchased my VOI in Westin Aventuras in October 2020, in an office located in the Baja Point complex, after having toured one unit that was located in the Baja Point complex. No representation of any distinction between the two locations was ever made to me. Last year I stayed at Baja Point where I was greeted as a new owner. However, due to last year's peculiar travel situation, I was able to make that reservation only a few weeks in advance, so the issue of the home reservation period did not occur. This is just to say that at no point I was given any info that even remotely made me doubt that Baja Point was part of my home resort. If anything, I might have suspected that the hotel building wasn't, as all the prospective buyers were transported from the hotel to Baja Point to attend the sale presentation.


I just re-read my contract and, as it likely comes as no surprise to anyone, the definition of the home resort is very much a gray zone one. Here is what it says:

"Hoteles Cabos K22.5 ("Hoteles Cabo" and/or "Trust Association Manager") has established a Timeshare Regime ("Regime'") covering one hundred and forty six (146) vacation units ("Vacation Units") which are subject to the Rules and Regulations of the Regime, and are located within a parcel of property described as Unit "A" Private Unit One (Hotel) (Hotel Unit") which is part of the Condominio Westin Regina Los Cabos, located at Carretera Transpeninsular KM. 22.5 SN Baja California Sur, Los Cabos San Jose del Cabo. Cerro Colorado, CP 23400, Mexico. The Hotel Unit is further known as the Westin Los Cabos Resort Villas and Spa."

I now see how the definition Unit "A" Private Unit One (Hotel) (Hotel Unit") might possibly be the hidden clue for someone with a better lawyerly eyes than mine, to which it was further clouded by the qualifier which is part of the Condominio Westin Regina Los Cabos, which as some noticed was the previous name of Baja Point.


Besides the contract legalese and its non-conformity with the more or less honest representations made during a sale pitch, there are still a few things that I do not understand. If Baja Point is not part of Westin Aventuras, as alexadeparis and dioxide45 state, this should imply that is an autonomous entity, separated from the Westin Los Cabos Resort Villas and Spa. However, it is not an independent resort that can be queried for availabilty, because it does not show up among the choices in the Destinations menu on the Vistana website (screenshot attached). The only way to verify availability at Baja Point is by selecting Westin Los Cabos Resort Villas and Spa, under which umbrella its available accomodation are shown, as it can be seen in the screenshot attached to my original post. So if it is part of the Westin Los Cabos Resort Villas and Spa, how can it not be part of Westin Aventuras? As a mathematician, this deeply disturbs me, as it goes against all the fundamental laws of set theory ;-)


My hypothesis is that there is an ongoing sneaky project to separate Baja Point from Westin Los Cabos, and hence from Aventuras, basically disenfranchising those who, like me, bought mostly because of it. My main reason to post, was to verify my suspicion that this is something new, checking if anyone had some past experience in which it was clear that Baja Point was not part of the Aventuras home resort.
Vistana.png
 

dioxide45

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The problem with Baja Point is that it was primarily sold out prior to Vistana taking over management of the resort and units. When they did this, they offered Baja Point owners the ability to enroll their weeks in the VSN. I don't remember if there was a fee to do so. I only recall one person asking about this option several years ago when it was offered. I am not sure how many people took them up on the offer. So because of that, Vistana doesn't really own any inventory at Baja Point and has to rely on a Baja Point owner making a StarOption reservation which will free up their owned unit for other StarOption users to book. Another way for availability to open up for StarOptions is for one of those VSN Baja Point units to go unbooked until the eight month mark when it would then be available for StarOption reservations.

I do agree that the wording is a little ambiguous, but I suspect that the "A" Private Unit One (Hotel) (Hotel Unit") which is part of the Condominio Westin Regina Los Cabos, located at Carretera Transpeninsular KM. 22.5 SN Baja California Sur, Los Cabos San Jose del Cabo. Cerro Colorado, CP 23400, Mexico. The Hotel Unit is further known as the Westin Los Cabos Resort Villas and Spa." is indeed the legal definition for the Westin Los Cabos Resort & Spa property.

I do recall at one time they listed the Westin Los Cabos and Baja Point separately on the website.
 

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Hi dioxide45, thanks for your reply. I can understand that Vistana might not have a large inventory at Baja Point. What I do not understand, or better, what does not seem right to me, is that I verified that the availability exists, but I am not able to make a reservation in my home reservation period when for all intents and purposes (in the sales presentation and on the website) Baja Point is lumped together under Westin Los Cabos
 

dioxide45

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Hi dioxide45, thanks for your reply. I can understand that Vistana might not have a large inventory at Baja Point. What I do not understand, or better, what does not seem right to me, is that I verified that the availability exists, but I am not able to make a reservation in my home reservation period when for all intents and purposes (in the sales presentation and on the website) Baja Point is lumped together under Westin Los Cabos
It also comes down to two pools of inventory. The only inventory that can be booked within the 12-8 month window is inventory that exists in the Westin Aventuras owned units. A week that is converted to StarOptions can only be booked at the eight month mark. Since there is no owned inventory available in the Westin Aventuras program, there is nothing able to be booked by Westin Aventuras owners in the 12-8 month window. It is the same reason you can see inventory available in Hawaii 12-8 months but not able to book it. I can't seem to explain why they decided to lump Baja Point in with Los Cabos on the website when searching availability.
 

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Thanks. This is when things start to get hazy for me, as I am not an expert of the system. My understanding was that any availability in my home resort would be bookable by me during the 12-8 month window. Instead, if I understand you well, there is a pool of available accomodations coming from Vistana members that own actual deeded weeks there and decided to convert them into Star Options. Those availabilities are not part of the Westin Aventuras pool because the owners are not part of the program. Did I understand it correctly? So in this case is there anyone who can book these accomodations in the 12-8 month window (maybe other owners of Baja Point deeded weeks?) or do they become bookable only at the 8-month deadline?
 

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Similar to Westin St. John, there's only one resort to choose in the villa finder search, but it's actually four separate phases under that umbrella. And owners of one phase can only book their phase at 12-8 months, not the other three phases, even if there's availability.
 

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Thanks. This is when things start to get hazy for me, as I am not an expert of the system. My understanding was that any availability in my home resort would be bookable by me during the 12-8 month window. Instead, if I understand you well, there is a pool of available accomodations coming from Vistana members that own actual deeded weeks there and decided to convert them into Star Options. Those availabilities are not part of the Westin Aventuras pool because the owners are not part of the program. Did I understand it correctly? So in this case is there anyone who can book these accomodations in the 12-8 month window (maybe other owners of Baja Point deeded weeks?) or do they become bookable only at the 8-month deadline?
I am not really sure how the deeded week system worked at Baja Point for deeded owners. They very well probably have some of their own rules regarding booking. They may own fixed week, fixed units or able to book floating units. WSJ has a lot of different rules because some of the earlier phases were developed very early on and had special rules regarding fixed week ownership and the ability to convert fixed to floating inside a certain window then the ability still to use StarOptions at 8 months.

That said, I would suspect once you can see it as available on Vistana.com, it will only be available to book via StarOptions when the booking window opens.
 

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From reading the Contract Information it appears that Baja Point is not listed only Westin Los Cabos, which is the big resort next door. Timeshare sales folks are not known for their openness and honesty.
 

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I am not really sure how the deeded week system worked at Baja Point for deeded owners. They very well probably have some of their own rules regarding booking. They may own fixed week, fixed units or able to book floating units. WSJ has a lot of different rules because some of the earlier phases were developed very early on and had special rules regarding fixed week ownership and the ability to convert fixed to floating inside a certain window then the ability still to use StarOptions at 8 months.

That said, I would suspect once you can see it as available on Vistana.com, it will only be available to book via StarOptions when the booking window opens.

And having stayed there in October 2020, Baja Point is well worth trying to get right when that 8-month booking window opens. A beautiful location.
 

Italnsd

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Similar to Westin St. John, there's only one resort to choose in the villa finder search, but it's actually four separate phases under that umbrella. And owners of one phase can only book their phase at 12-8 months, not the other three phases, even if there's availability.
Thanks echino, now I understand what "phases" meant in previous posts. Are phases born out of the necessity of representing legacy systems that were in place under a previous management, with different contract rules binding owners belonging to different phases? Since many of these resorts passed under several ownerships it's no surprise the whole system seems so messy
 

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Thanks echino, now I understand what "phases" meant in previous posts. Are phases born out of the necessity of representing legacy systems that were in place under a previous management, with different contract rules binding owners belonging to different phases? Since many of these resorts passed under several ownerships it's no surprise the whole system seems so messy
I don't really know why Vistana built out their phases like they did with different HOAs. Each phase at many resorts are technically individual condominium associations, some with their own rules. Vistana made a big mess of everything right from the start and continued to do it through their very last resort, Westin Nanea on Maui. Creating different HOAs, different phases, separate trusts, and rules. This makes understanding the booking process for many resorts, as a weeks owner, kind of complicated.

Some of those other phases did also rise out of necessity due to legacy resorts that Starwood bought when they created their timeshare program. But even at the newer resorts, they still like to make a mess of things.
 

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Thanks echino, now I understand what "phases" meant in previous posts. Are phases born out of the necessity of representing legacy systems that were in place under a previous management, with different contract rules binding owners belonging to different phases? Since many of these resorts passed under several ownerships it's no surprise the whole system seems so messy
In short, yes, each phase has different rules (and this applies at many Vistana resorts) because there have been many changes in ownership, and the new owner cannot change the ownership rules that the units were sold under. So, in theory, when a Resort is sold, the rules that existed at that time are crystallized for the units already sold, and new rules begin for the new units sold after that date. That’s how you end up (this is the cliffs notes version) with multiple rules and phases in the same resort. So they can’t sell what is not available. Baja Point has been sold out for years, therefore it’s not available. What they CAN do is get people to voluntarily trade in their old product to the current product that is under the new rules, and recapture those units. But not everyone is going to do that, so you end up with quirks at every resort.
 

Italnsd

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And having stayed there in October 2020, Baja Point is well worth trying to get right when that 8-month booking window opens. A beautiful location.
I totally agree, that's why I was so happy when I saw the availability and so irritated when I realized it was put out of my reach ;-)
Luckily, I bought only one week every two years to test the system, because the more I get to know it the more it seems that the reality is way below the expectations created during the sale pitch.
It's ironic that in the last few months I've been hassled to buy more before the merger as Vistana representatives keep telling me that we have it better than MVC owners...
 

Italnsd

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What they CAN do is get people to voluntarily trade in their old product to the current product that is under the new rules, and recapture those units. But not everyone is going to do that, so you end up with quirks at every resort.
It reminds me of the funny situation in this recently built hotel in Puerto Vallarta, conceived to cater to a young party crowd. The hotel owners managed to buy out the owners of each apartment in the building, with the exception of an old lady who did not want to give up her attic with an amazing balcony overlooking the ocean (who could blame her?). As a result, the sleek modern doors of the hotel rooms on the last floor are comically dwarfed by this heavy wooden black door with its big old-style lock leading to her apartment. And since the only building entrance is the hotel lobby, it is not uncommon to see this old lady dressed in black trying to negotiate her way home completely unfazed as she traverses the crowd of scantily dressed partiers :)
 

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From reading the Contract Information it appears that Baja Point is not listed only Westin Los Cabos, which is the big resort next door. Timeshare sales folks are not known for their openness and honesty.
They certainly weren't at Baja Point. They actually moved us from the Westin Los Cabos to an amazing 2 bedroom villa in Baja Point to convince us to buy. I assure you that no one ever mentioned that Baja Point was not treated the same way as the other Villa properties - 12 month window, etc. We did another owner presentation last year and complained about this and the lack of any availability and they conveniently blamed it all on COVID avoiding any conversation about the 8 month window. I am sorry to say because we have been long time owners in other Vistana properties, and would agree that the sales hype can exceed at times reality, but the Los Cabos Baja Point thing is fraudulent and deceitful. I am surprised that Vistana allows it to go on. What are they hiding that they can't honestly explain the way the Baja Point works. Staying at Baja Point through ownership seems remote at best.
 

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I have always cynically wondered if vistana has not always intentionally made the program as complicated as they felt they could get away with. The more complicated the program is, the more different pools of inventory there are, the more difficult it is for people to actually use their ownership. And when people don’t use their weeks, Vistana monetizes those unused weeks and rents them for cash, through Marriott as hotel rooms, etc.

This is not a statement or fact, just something I’ve always wondered about. It just seems like people smart enough to finance and develop complex real estate projects would be smart enough to create a simpler and more uniform system if they wanted to. I’ll give them a pass at the resorts where Vistana/Starwood was not the original owner or developer, but there's really no rational reason, other than intentional confusion, for the way they set things up even at resorts they developed from start to finish.
 
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