• Please check out the review contest thread here vote for the best review and cast your vote for the best review to start 2020! winner gets a $50 gift card!
  • The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 26 years!

    Join tens of thousands of other owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered!
  • TUG is starting a new contest that will award $50 to the best review submitted within the next two weeks!!

    Read more here
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $14,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $14 Million dollars
  • We completed the upgrade of the TUGBBS forums recently and are still working on issues/customizations/changes etc. Please post in the thread in the ABOUT TUGBBS section with your feedback. Note if you are unable to log in or access the forums please email us at tug@tug2.net!
  • Follow the TUG Member Banner as it travels the world on vacation with Timeshare owners! Also sign up to get the banner sent to you so you can submit a photo of your vacation with the banner to share with TUG! Banner Thread
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free! Join tens of thousands of other owners who get this every week! Latest resort reviews and the most important topics discussed by owners during the week!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    Read more Here
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Assessment Fee is Double what was on estoppel

comicbookman

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2013
Messages
772
Reaction score
125
Points
154
Location
Dillwyn, Virginia
Try to reserve the transaction and get your money back due to fraud. It's not going to work out right for you. You're going to end up being cheated. They find another TS to purchase.
I agree with 55plus. Unless the owner or Express make you a killer offer, I would demand that the transaction be reversed and find a different contract to purchase.
 

55plus

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Messages
1,707
Reaction score
522
Points
223
Location
USA! USA! USA!
Cancel the purchase due to fraud and buy something with less maintenance fee costs. The condo in question is converted fixed week to points. You'll be better off renting for less than what you'll pay in maintenance fees.
 

Braindead

TUG Member
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
2,306
Reaction score
1,081
Points
223
Ok so back in September I found a timeshare in the marketplace I was interested in. I contacted the agent selling it who was with Express Closing Firm. I checked reviews and several here have had no issues so I went after it. I was forwarded the estoppel attached. Well today I got an email stating the transfer was complete, I am super excited call Wyndham get my member number only to see my assessment fee is now $1600. I have called them all day and I'm getting the run around can anyone guide me on what I need to do.
OR did the previous owner pay by 1/2 year?
Previous owner paid every 6 months is the only way the estoppel is correct unless the estoppel is on a different contract, not the one purchased.
I highly doubt that Wyndham made a mistake on the estoppel.
I believe you have the option of paying the MFs yearly, every 6 months or monthly on the contract purchased
 

Anw015

Guest
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Messages
42
Reaction score
12
Points
18
At this point I am not sure how I could reverse it as its already been placed in my name. As of right now the owner is paying me 807.04 and transferring me the points in RCI. If I was so state it was fraud how would I get the contract from under my name?
 

paxsarah

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
1,842
Reaction score
968
Points
223
Location
Athens, GA
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Ocean Boulevard and Flagstaff
Yeah, I'm pretty sure trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube is more hassle than just moving forward. At this point, the deed has been recorded and the transfer effected within Wyndham, and the problem can be largely solved with money. As I read it, the issue is a one-time problem with a deferred maintenance fee and used-up points, both of which can be made right with money from the seller/transfer agent. I would be on the "refuse/cancel/dispute it" train if the underlying contract was different than originally presented, but it sounds like starting in 2021 the fees and points will be what you expected all along. It's just 2020 that was wildly different than the purchase agreement presented, and those are things that can be fixed with compensation.
 

bobinmich

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
115
Reaction score
75
Points
88
Resorts Owned
wyndham
I
At this point I am not sure how I could reverse it as its already been placed in my name. As of right now the owner is paying me 807.04 and transferring me the points in RCI. If I was so state it was fraud how would I get the contract from under my name?
I would MAKE Sure the original owners are PAYING you for the cost to USE the RCI points...they CLEARLY knew what they were doing, thats why they transferred the points to RCI...to try to get the use out of them in 2020. I believe it cost 239 EACH reservation through RCI....meaning...if you take TWO trips using RCI points, it will cost you 478. They really put you in a BAD SITUATION.
 

Braindead

TUG Member
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
2,306
Reaction score
1,081
Points
223
Wyndham deserves some blame too in its estoppel reflecting no past due payment. If OP emails MB with the estoppel and the screenshot, I can’t see Wyndham continuing to enforce the past due payments
Is there a past due payment? You make an assertion that the Wyndham estoppel is wrong. How is it wrong?
 

Braindead

TUG Member
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
2,306
Reaction score
1,081
Points
223
This thread should be a lesson to us all when an individual is buying their first contract.
Recommendation should always be buy a UDI contract whether deeded or CWA
 

SNA27

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Messages
815
Reaction score
515
Points
143
Location
Rancho Cucamonga CA
Resorts Owned
Grand Desert - Flagstaff - Waikiki-Beachwalk+2PICs - Bonnet-Creek - Smoky-Mountains - NO CWA/NO RESALE
Is there a past due payment? You make an assertion that the Wyndham estoppel is wrong. How is it wrong?
Estoppel states that ANNUAL assessment is$807.04, that there is NO PAST DUE and that the next payment is due on 1/28/2020. An amount of $1605 is not supported by these facts.

1579804884542.png
 

Anw015

Guest
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Messages
42
Reaction score
12
Points
18
Yeah, I'm pretty sure trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube is more hassle than just moving forward. At this point, the deed has been recorded and the transfer effected within Wyndham, and the problem can be largely solved with money. As I read it, the issue is a one-time problem with a deferred maintenance fee and used-up points, both of which can be made right with money from the seller/transfer agent. I would be on the "refuse/cancel/dispute it" train if the underlying contract was different than originally presented, but it sounds like starting in 2021 the fees and points will be what you expected all along. It's just 2020 that was wildly different than the purchase agreement presented, and those are things that can be fixed with compensation.
It was meant to be 2020 year of usage, but I agree it seems more trouble than its worth to try and cancel the transaction all in all. I have sent to a message asking either the seller pay this years fees or the cost of 2 reservations in RCI.

I

I would MAKE Sure the original owners are PAYING you for the cost to USE the RCI points...they CLEARLY knew what they were doing, thats why they transferred the points to RCI...to try to get the use out of them in 2020. I believe it cost 239 EACH reservation through RCI....meaning...if you take TWO trips using RCI points, it will cost you 478. They really put you in a BAD SITUATION.
I completely agree they put me in a bad situation and its easy for them because nothing is tied to their name. They already are paying the debt, but I just asked the transfer company to see if they would pay either 2 reservation fees or just pay this years fees and I can just use it in 2021
 

SNA27

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Messages
815
Reaction score
515
Points
143
Location
Rancho Cucamonga CA
Resorts Owned
Grand Desert - Flagstaff - Waikiki-Beachwalk+2PICs - Bonnet-Creek - Smoky-Mountains - NO CWA/NO RESALE
This thread should be a lesson to us all when an individual is buying their first contract.
Recommendation should always be buy a UDI contract whether deeded or CWA
The seller had some kind of past due and the the seller must have made the RCI deposit on or after Jan 1st, 2020. UDI is not immune to the same shenanigans.
 

SNA27

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Messages
815
Reaction score
515
Points
143
Location
Rancho Cucamonga CA
Resorts Owned
Grand Desert - Flagstaff - Waikiki-Beachwalk+2PICs - Bonnet-Creek - Smoky-Mountains - NO CWA/NO RESALE
It still doesn't make sense to me why Wyndham shows $1605 as the annual dues on the website. Irrespective of any past due, annual dues should be shown as $807.04. The past due balance should be a separate item. Doesn't pass accounting muster. OP should get this clarified.

If the seller pays the 2020 dues upfront and helps bring the account balance to zero by 1/28/2020 so you can use the points from 2021, that would be an OK solution. But why should you agree to that when it excuses the seller of his bad faith?

Even letting him transfer RCI points to you with 2 x $239 compensation is an unnecessary concession at the start of a negotiation.
Your deal was for a clean resale with all MF prior to 2020 paid with all 2020 points available for use in Wyndham.
Anything less is a breach of contract and the closing company should make you whole. I would start my negotiations at >$1000 + the use of the 2020 RCI points.

I will never deal with these sellers directly or accept any promises made by them. Deal only with the Closing company. It's on them to squeeze the sellers to comply.
 
Last edited:

tschwa2

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
11,736
Reaction score
1,591
Points
498
Location
Maryland
Resorts Owned
A few in SC, VA and FL, a single resort in NC, MD, PA, NY, UT, ME, WI, and TN plus Jamaica and the Bahamas
I would also tell them if for some reason they can't or won't transfer the rci points with an expiration date of 12/15/2021 or later by the end of March 2020 then they will owe you 100% of the 2020 MF's plus and additional $500 for cheating you out of 2020 usage.

Also With a converted fixed week (that had past dues) you need to make sure it is still in points and hasn't been removed from the points program.
 

bobinmich

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
115
Reaction score
75
Points
88
Resorts Owned
wyndham
Unfortunately, THESE are some of the RISKS we run when we buy resale. Wyndham is NOT there to hold our hand through the process. A lot of the process depends on sellers honesty...and unfortunately, YOUR seller was very DISHONEST.
 

SNA27

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Messages
815
Reaction score
515
Points
143
Location
Rancho Cucamonga CA
Resorts Owned
Grand Desert - Flagstaff - Waikiki-Beachwalk+2PICs - Bonnet-Creek - Smoky-Mountains - NO CWA/NO RESALE
I guess we can assume the sellers were resale owners. If they were retail owners, they could have used Ovation to get 3 years of points without paying MF.
It would be interesting to look at the history of the deed to find out if they are 'strip-and-dump' artists. My county's tax assessor website shows owner history. It should be possible to get this info.
OP should investigate this so he knows who he's dealing with.

 
Last edited:

capital city

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
352
Reaction score
127
Points
153
Location
Midway KY
Resorts Owned
Panama City 520k

Club Access 801k
To me Rci points are near worthless, I would only want to take them if they were covering reservation fees and still covered mf fees. I want what I want and I've had a very hard time finding what I want in Rci. If your retired and can go whenever then they might have more value to you. I've told my extended family I have 400,000 rci points, you want them? Pay the reservation and guest fee and they are yours. They seem uninterested.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
1,627
Reaction score
667
Points
173
[
Cancel the purchase due to fraud and buy something with less maintenance fee costs. The condo in question is converted fixed week to points. You'll be better off renting for less than what you'll pay in maintenance fees.
My thoughts exactly!!!!! :ponder:
 

tschwa2

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
11,736
Reaction score
1,591
Points
498
Location
Maryland
Resorts Owned
A few in SC, VA and FL, a single resort in NC, MD, PA, NY, UT, ME, WI, and TN plus Jamaica and the Bahamas
I guess we can assume the sellers were resale owners. If they were retail owners, they could have used Ovation to get 3 years of points without paying MF.
It would be interesting to look at the history of the deed to find out if they are 'strip-and-dump' artists. My county's tax assessor website shows owner history. It should be possible to get this info.
OP should investigate this so he knows who he's dealing with.
Fairfield Glade is old enough that even the owners bought retail and then paid to convert it could be on the list that wyndham is not accepting for ovations.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
1,627
Reaction score
667
Points
173
To me Rci points are near worthless, I would only want to take them if they were covering reservation fees and still covered mf fees. I want what I want and I've had a very hard time finding what I want in Rci. If your retired and can go whenever then they might have more value to you. I've told my extended family I have 400,000 rci points, you want them? Pay the reservation and guest fee and they are yours. They seem uninterested.
I disagree on your opinion of RCI points. I have traveled and booked many Wyndham resorts with 33% less points when booking with RCI. I have also been able to stay at many other resorts outside of Wyndham that would not be possible without RCI bookings.
 

SNA27

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Messages
815
Reaction score
515
Points
143
Location
Rancho Cucamonga CA
Resorts Owned
Grand Desert - Flagstaff - Waikiki-Beachwalk+2PICs - Bonnet-Creek - Smoky-Mountains - NO CWA/NO RESALE
Fairfield Glade is old enough that even the owners bought retail and then paid to convert it could be on the list that wyndham is not accepting for ovations.
Fairfield Glades is in TN. This is Fairfield Sapphire Valley in NC.
So, is there a list showing which resorts qualify for Ovation and which do not? Any rationale for each group?
 

55plus

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Messages
1,707
Reaction score
522
Points
223
Location
USA! USA! USA!
I disagree on your opinion of RCI points. I have traveled and booked many Wyndham resorts with 33% less points when booking with RCI. I have also been able to stay at many other resorts outside of Wyndham that would not be possible without RCI bookings.
Agree. RCI gives you more option. RCI Last Call is also a great benefit. I used RCI Last Call for Hilton Head many times.
 

tschwa2

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
11,736
Reaction score
1,591
Points
498
Location
Maryland
Resorts Owned
A few in SC, VA and FL, a single resort in NC, MD, PA, NY, UT, ME, WI, and TN plus Jamaica and the Bahamas
Fairfield Glades is in TN. This is Fairfield Sapphire Valley in NC.
So, is there a list showing which resorts qualify for Ovation and which do not? Any rationale for each group?
There is a list but I am not sure if it is published and it changes from time to time. For sure resorts and HOA's that aren't currently managed by HOA are ineligible.
I think EOY are not currently eligible for usage without fee for retail owners.
I think the others on the list are high MF's low points resorts that Wyndham has no desire to add to CWA. Depending on when those resorts were purchased retail, Wyndham may offer a take back but not free points usage.

Anytime you want to avail yourself of Ovations and/or limited editions you have to contact Wydham to verify eligibility. At one point they would take any Wyndham property even deeded non points weeks bought resale at less desirable resorts. They periodically adjust what they will accept based on their needs and ability to use. If you bought retail in the last 10-15 years, regardless of where you are very likely to be offered limited edition or regular ovations as a last resort.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
1,627
Reaction score
667
Points
173
To me Rci points are near worthless, I would only want to take them if they were covering reservation fees and still covered mf fees. I want what I want and I've had a very hard time finding what I want in Rci. If your retired and can go whenever then they might have more value to you. I've told my extended family I have 400,000 rci points, you want them? Pay the reservation and guest fee and they are yours. They seem uninterested.
A smart knowledgeable owner would learn how to use this $160 a year RCI benefit.
 

cbyrne1174

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
436
Reaction score
346
Points
124
Location
Tampa, FL
Resorts Owned
497,000 Club Wyndham Points
The easiest solution is to just have the seller cover the 2020 dues and take over in 2021. If OP wants to go on a trip this year, she can just borrow from 2021 at the 90 day window. Even with all the BS with the first purchase, OP will probably still get addonitis and will at least know what to look out for.



And even with all this BS, congrats on saving thousands. When you actually use your membership, you will see how little you paid compared to 95% of owners even if buying resale is a headache at times.
 

bobinmich

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
115
Reaction score
75
Points
88
Resorts Owned
wyndham
The easiest solution is to just have the seller cover the 2020 dues and take over in 2021. If OP wants to go on a trip this year, she can just borrow from 2021 at the 90 day window. Even with all the BS with the first purchase, OP will probably still get addonitis and will at least know what to look out for.



And even with all this BS, congrats on saving thousands. When you actually use your membership, you will see how little you paid compared to 95% of owners even if buying resale is a headache at times.
I agree with cbyrne...that IS the easiest solution.....IF YOU can get the previous owner to PAY for 2020 fee's....I would suspect that is a longshot.
 
Top