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Asking the Taboo Question: Is America Overreacting to Coronavirus?

heathpack

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we shall see, I have been following the media for days to see if the wheels are indeed in motion on this but I did not see it. If hope you are right and it is being done and the media did not report it yet or maybe I just missed it.

What could you conceivably imagine to be the motivation for people who understand these things (epidemiologists, infectious disease specialists, biomedical firms, etc) to NOT be working on these important things? They’d rather sit and watch Rome burn vs make money, get tenure, become invaluable to their governmental agency?

The current messaging on this crisis could be better. People are confused about aspects of this that aren’t confusing. Even when I try to explain basic aspects of this situation to friends who know me- things like “this infection is spread in the air”- I get arguments and push back because they read something different on FB or heard something different from some sketchy source.

The truth is there is real danger in everyone thinking they’re an expert. Everyone proclaiming (without adequate background or knowledge or information to do so) that they “know better” than someone else who actually has the expertise and qualifications to distribute a the currently best message. There’s real danger in second guessing every revision of policy and taking that as “proof” that the initial policy was “wrong” (as opposed to “that’s the nature of the evolution of understanding of things”).

I also very much fault official government communications on this subject, I don’t think it’s solely the populace who has lost ability to think critically and weigh the relative credibility of various sources of info. As a veterinarian every day I must control the conversation, I have to tell people what they need to know vs let them ramble and go off on a zillion tangents as to what they *think* they need to know. There’s an art to it, and you have to indulge it somewhat, but I have to (sometimes forcefully) always bring the conversation back to the relevant info. I would fault our governments communications as not being constantly “on message” and telling people exactly what they need to know while managing the inevitable attempts to focus on irrelevant tangents. PS my (generally) clients love me, you can do all this very firmly but in a palatable way.
 

DannyTS

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Here is a good article on immunity.

actually Dr. Birx believes you should be immune 99.9% of the time


Dr. Birx: (01:11:13)
And then finally we've reached out to the developers of the rapid test, the ones who developed it for malaria, the ones that developed them for HIV. It's exactly the same concept and process to ask them to rapidly develop these tests because I think we owe it to the frontline healthcare providers, not only to provide them RNA test, but many of them have been on the front line now for four weeks, may have become exposed. We now know there's asymptomatic. And, I think, really being able to tell them the peace of mind that would come from knowing you already were infected. You have antibody, you're safe from reinfection 99.9% of the time.
 

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What could you conceivably imagine to be the motivation for people who understand these things (epidemiologists, infectious disease specialists, biomedical firms, etc) to NOT be working on these important things? They’d rather sit and watch Rome burn vs make money, get tenure, become invaluable to their governmental agency?

The current messaging on this crisis could be better. People are confused about aspects of this that aren’t confusing. Even when I try to explain basic aspects of this situation to friends who know me- things like “this infection is spread in the air”- I get arguments and push back because they read something different on FB or heard something different from some sketchy source.

The truth is there is real danger in everyone thinking they’re an expert. Everyone proclaiming (without adequate background or knowledge or information to do so) that they “know better” than someone else who actually has the expertise and qualifications to distribute a the currently best message. There’s real danger in second guessing every revision of policy and taking that as “proof” that the initial policy was “wrong” (as opposed to “that’s the nature of the evolution of understanding of things”).

I also very much fault official government communications on this subject, I don’t think it’s solely the populace who has lost ability to think critically and weigh the relative credibility of various sources of info. As a veterinarian every day I must control the conversation, I have to tell people what they need to know vs let them ramble and go off on a zillion tangents as to what they *think* they need to know. There’s an art to it, and you have to indulge it somewhat, but I have to (sometimes forcefully) always bring the conversation back to the relevant info. I would fault our governments communications as not being constantly “on message” and telling people exactly what they need to know while managing the inevitable attempts to focus on irrelevant tangents. PS my (generally) clients love me, you can do all this very firmly but in a palatable way.

According to WHO: "Airborne spread has not been reported for COVID-19 and it is not believed to be a major driver of transmission based on available evidence."



According to CDC: "It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes, but this is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads."



These are two things that people are commonly telling others but the science does not currently support it. Maybe that will change or maybe they had different beliefs before. I have seen some preliminary studies that coronavirus may remain airborne for a few hours. WHO says: "A recent publication in the New England Journal of Medicine has evaluated virus persistence of the COVID-19 virus.10 In this experimental study, aerosols were generated using a three-jet Collison nebulizer and fed into a Goldberg drum under controlled laboratory conditions. This is a high-powered machine that does not reflect normal human cough conditions. Further, the finding of COVID-19 virus in aerosol particles up to 3 hours does not reflect a clinical setting in which aerosol-generating procedures are performed—that is, this was an experimentally induced aerosol-generating procedure."

I was watching a talk by a doctor at Cornell Weill in NYC and he stated both of the above statements as what they currently know about coronavirus / Covid 19. He said the main way you get covid-19 is through prolonged contact with someone who has it and touching your face. He said if you keep your hands clean and do not touch your face, the chances of you getting it are very small.
 
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bluehende

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actually Dr. Birx believes you should be immune 99.9% of the time


Dr. Birx: (01:11:13)
And then finally we've reached out to the developers of the rapid test, the ones who developed it for malaria, the ones that developed them for HIV. It's exactly the same concept and process to ask them to rapidly develop these tests because I think we owe it to the frontline healthcare providers, not only to provide them RNA test, but many of them have been on the front line now for four weeks, may have become exposed. We now know there's asymptomatic. And, I think, really being able to tell them the peace of mind that would come from knowing you already were infected. You have antibody, you're safe from reinfection 99.9% of the time.
She also said the Kings college model had changed so excuse me if I take her opinion with a grain of salt. And we will not go into other false claims that have come from that podium. I would love to see long lasting immunity from a single exposure, but that is not known unless you have another source for that number I can check.
 

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There needs to be an antibody test so those of us who believe we have had it but never tested can donate plasma to save others. While I realize they have enough on their plate as it is and thinking this way is oversimplifying things, I do believe it could make a world of difference to those critically ill.
If we have to wait till there is not one single case in all of the US, most companies will be bankrupt. You will then have many dying by suicide and this will be happening as time goes on sadly. As for China, you cannot believe anything they say. They have lied from day one. Also, leaders from WHO, for some reason, are praising China and their efforts. Who director general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus came out early on with a press conference to the US saying he felt there was very low risk of this disease spreading here. I knew right then and there it was a bunch of BS and common sense told us it would spread everywhere. The Chinese have held back for many months of telling anyone this disease was rampant throughout Wuhan and anyone, including doctors, who tried to sound the warning bell went missing or died. Start researching this.
I do not think models will help us really because every country is different. Italy has a more elder population and many smoke. We will not know anything until after the fact. Hoping we can start giving those who are critical medications and plasma to save lives and cut down on the death rate.
Hope those here can discuss without fighting. This was a good question to ask and debate. On the flip side of this, the many who do contract this disease (and recover easily) will hopefully be immune if it comes around again. That is not a bad thing. Get their plasma into those who have not and give them the antibodies.
*edited for typos.
 

Jan M.

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I hope heathpack will correct me if I'm wrong about this. Viruses mutate and that is fact. We all know if you've had a cold or the flu you aren't immune to ever getting another cold or case of the flu. What no one can say for certain simply because there isn't the data yet to make a definitive statement is if you've had Covid-19 whether or not it will give you immunity to the next mutated version of it.
 

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What will it take for China to be held liable for their under reporting and not closing the borders earlier? Resulting in tens of thousands of lives lost and how many trillions in financial losses.
 

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I hope heathpack will correct me if I'm wrong about this. Viruses mutate and that is fact. We all know if you've had a cold or the flu you aren't immune to ever getting another cold or case of the flu. What no one can say for certain simply because there isn't the data yet to make a definitive statement is if you've had Covid-19 whether or not it will give you immunity to the next mutated version of it.

That is correct. All viruses mutate. Some do so very rapidly to the extent that immunologically speaking the virus is “mostly new” every season (if its a seasonal virus). Some do so slowly and effectively the virus doesn’t change significantly over a long time, like a human lifespan.

So far they are seeing a low mutation rate in this particular version of the coronavirus (technically SARS-CV-2) which means long lasting immunity from either a vaccine or infection.

But it’s too early to know for sure. If it turns out to have a high mutation rate like the flu virus, that’s going to be a big problemo.
 

heathpack

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According to WHO: "Airborne spread has not been reported for COVID-19 and it is not believed to be a major driver of transmission based on available evidence."



According to CDC: "It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes, but this is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads."



These are two things that people are commonly telling others but the science does not currently support it. Maybe that will change or maybe they had different beliefs before. I have seen some preliminary studies that coronavirus may remain airborne for a few hours. WHO says: "A recent publication in the New England Journal of Medicine has evaluated virus persistence of the COVID-19 virus.10 In this experimental study, aerosols were generated using a three-jet Collison nebulizer and fed into a Goldberg drum under controlled laboratory conditions. This is a high-powered machine that does not reflect normal human cough conditions. Further, the finding of COVID-19 virus in aerosol particles up to 3 hours does not reflect a clinical setting in which aerosol-generating procedures are performed—that is, this was an experimentally induced aerosol-generating procedure."

I was watching a talk by a doctor at Cornell Weill in NYC and he stated both of the above statements as what they currently know about coronavirus / Covid 19. He said the main way you get covid-19 is through prolonged contact with someone who has it and touching your face. He said if you keep your hands clean and do not touch your face, the chances of you getting it are very small.

There is a difference between a true airborne infection- which lives in the air and you can’t get without close contact. Vs a droplet-spread infection which is still primarily spread via area but requires close contact. You can also get a droplet-spread infection by touching droplets that have recently landed on a surface and then touching your face.

But absolutely 100% don’t doubt what I’m saying because I know what I’m talking about: this coronavirus is PREDOMINATELY spread via the air.
 

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There is a difference between a true airborne infection- which lives in the air and you can’t get without close contact. Vs a droplet-spread infection which is still primarily spread via area but requires close contact. You can also get a droplet-spread infection by touching droplets that have recently landed on a surface and then touching your face.

But absolutely 100% don’t doubt what I’m saying because I know what I’m talking about: this coronavirus is PREDOMINATELY spread via the air.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know that this coronavirus is predominately spread via air? It is hard to accept if the experts are saying something different.
 

heathpack

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Just out of curiosity, how do you know that this coronavirus is predominately spread via air? It is hard to accept if the experts are saying something different.

The experts are not saying something different.

You are just misunderstanding what the experts are saying.

There is an airborne infection like tuberculosis. This coronavirus is not an airborne infection.

But airborne infections are not the only infections spread via the air. Some infections like this coronavirus are spread via respiratory droplets and the primary means of coming into contact with respiratory droplets is via contacting them in the air. It’s the reason you’re told not to come within six feet of other people vs being told not to touch them.

Yes you should wash your hands because that’s a means of avoiding the virus after the respiratory droplets land on something you might touch.

But you should also stay 6 ft away from people because you don’t want the respiratory droplets in the air surrounding that person to land on your mucus membranes (nose, mouth) and cause you to become infected.

Any “expert” that says this infection can solely be avoided by hand washing should be disregarded because they don’t know what they’re talking about.
 

TravelTime

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The experts are not saying something different.

You are just misunderstanding what the experts are saying.

There is an airborne infection like tuberculosis. This coronavirus is not an airborne infection.

But airborne infections are not the only infections spread via the air. Some infections like this coronavirus are spread via respiratory droplets and the primary means of coming into contact with respiratory droplets is via contacting them in the air. It’s the reason you’re told not to come within six feet of other people vs being told not to touch them.

Yes you should wash your hands because that’s a means of avoiding the virus after the respiratory droplets land on something you might touch.

But you should also stay 6 ft away from people because you don’t want the respiratory droplets in the air surrounding that person to land on your mucus membranes (nose, mouth) and cause you to become infected.

Any “expert” that says this infection can solely be avoided by hand washing should be disregarded because they don’t know what they’re talking about.

Okay that makes sense. But saying you can get this from the air might be misleading since it is not an airborne infection. I understand that you can get respiratory droplets from being too close to someone. That is very different than saying you can get it from the air.

You should watch the video by the doctor and see if you think he is misleading the public. It has gone viral and has over 4 million views. Click on "watch on Vimeo" and it will play.

 

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Okay that makes sense. But saying you can get this from the air might be misleading since it is not an airborne infection. I understand that you can get respiratory droplets from being too close to someone. That is very different than saying you can get it from the air.

You should watch the video by the doctor and see if you think he is misleading the public. It has gone viral and has over 4 million views. Click on "watch on Vimeo" and it will play.


No its not misleading. Respiratory droplets are in the air. You can't see them. The only difference is in how close you must need to be to the infected person for the air to be dangerous to you.

True airborne infection: not close
Respiratory droplet infection: close

Either way IT IS THE AIR. It is NOT "very different from getting it from the air." Its the exact same thing as getting it from the air. Really really really it is.

But I am done with this conversation for now. I'm going to get some fresh air.
 

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No its not misleading. Respiratory droplets are in the air. You can't see them. The only difference is in how close you must need to be to the infected person for the air to be dangerous to you.

True airborne infection: not close
Respiratory droplet infection: close

Either way IT IS THE AIR. It is NOT "very different from getting it from the air." Its the exact same thing as getting it from the air. Really really really it is.

But I am done with this conversation for now. I'm going to get some fresh air.

Sorry for asking but I do appreciate your detailed response. It has taught me something new. When I heard that you can get the virus from the air, I thought that meant it can live in the air for a certain amount of time and we could get it without a person present. That is why I said saying you can get it from the air seems different to me than saying you can get respiratory droplets that are in the air when you are close to a person. If it can actually live in the air for 3 hours, as the New England Journal study is saying, then it is a much more scary disease and I would assume it is more easily transmittable. I ask these questions because I am not a medical doctor or a scientist so I want to more fully understand how it is transmitted. It seems like the details matter.
 
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bluehende

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@heathpack


Today I saw a general media report that the academy of sciences has issued a statement that a study is coming out that addresses this. I will not elaborate here as I cannot verify that a statement has been made. Since I cannot confirm this I am highly suspect but my radar went up when hearing the supposed source.

edit to say
The more I look the more I think BS
 
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"Under control" is not zero new cases, just as having the annual flu under control does not mean we don't have any cases or deaths. I believe under control is when we are no longer at risk of overwhelming our medical capacities. We are going to have many more cases and deaths -- that is a given. It's all a balancing act and not an all or nothing (i.e. ZERO new cases). Do you think otherwise?

Kurt
just watch Dr Fauci's facial reaction when a reporter asked if they can relax the containment measures in the summer. He thinks the number of new cases has to be zero "for a while"

 
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Lives are more important than jobs. But here is today's news in the NY Times. Call me "Chicken Little."

----------

In just two weeks, 10 million jobs have vanished, shaking the foundations of the global economy.

When the first cases of the coronavirus were reported in the United States just over a month ago, President Trump mostly dismissed the looming threat, Wall Street chugged ever upward and people set about their business with scant recognition of the calamity that lay ahead.
On Thursday, the stunning scope of the economic disaster became clearer as the Labor Department reported the loss of 10 million jobs in just two weeks. Wall Street has seemingly imploded, and the global economy has shuddered as the fallout of the pandemic reaches into every country.

Hopes for a dramatic but brief downturn followed by a quick recovery have faded, and in their place are fears that the world may be on the cusp of an economic shock unseen since the Great Depression.
The speed and scale of the job losses is without precedent. Until last month, the worst week for unemployment filings was 695,000 in 1982.

Despite the news that 6.6 million people had filed for unemployment benefits last week, the S&P 500 rose after Mr. Trump said he expected Russia and Saudi Arabia to announce oil production cuts, lifting energy stocks. Oil prices had been hammered as the pandemic all but eliminated travel and demand for energy, and a price war between Saudi and Russia had intensified the decline.

By shuttering businesses and forcing vast layoffs, the virus outbreak has in two weeks wiped out more jobs than the worst months of the 2008 financial crisis.

The impact has been global.
Almost one million Britons have applied for welfare payments in the space of two weeks. Austria has its highest unemployment rate since the end of World War II. Millions of French workers have applied for some form of subsidy even as the government embarks on an ambitious plan to keep businesses from going under.
The unemployment rate in Norway jumped to 10.4 percent from 2.3 percent at the beginning of March, and more than 800,000 Spanish workers lost their jobs in March, the highest monthly drop in modern history.
 

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From the Wall Street Journal:
Record 6.6 Million Americans Sought Unemployment Benefits Last Week
Coronavirus-related layoffs trigger record-setting surge in jobless-insurance claims

A record 6.6 million Americans applied for unemployment benefits last week as the new coronavirus struck the U.S. economy and sent a recently booming labor market into free fall.
The large number of claims was double the 3.3 million who sought benefits two weeks ago as the U.S. shut down parts of the economy in an effort to contain the virus. Jobless claims, a proxy for layoffs, provide temporary financial assistance for workers who lose their jobs.

About 6% of the U.S. labor force has filed for jobless benefits in the last two weeks, up from 0.3% at the end of February, showing the toll from the coronavirus is gripping an ever-larger share of the U.S. economy. States indicated people from an array of industries—including restaurants, retail, trade and construction—sought unemployment benefits last week.

“The speed and magnitude of the labor market’s decline is unprecedented,” said Constance Hunter, chief economist at KPMG LLP. Ms. Hunter said she expected that millions more claims will be filed in the coming weeks and projects 20 million jobs will be lost. “We didn’t see this in the global financial crisis. We didn’t see this in the Great Depression. There’s been a total decimation of consumption.”

There are several reasons why unemployment claims are likely to remain high in the coming weeks. For one, the federal rescue package signed into law last week increases the pool of workers who can tap benefits by making independent contractors and self-employed individuals eligible. Further, states have continued to tighten lockdown measures, driving more consumers to stay at home and more businesses to close their doors or limit operations.

Some Americans across the U.S. have been unable to successfully apply for unemployment insurance because an unprecedented level of claims is overwhelming state labor department websites and jamming up phone lines.
At a news conference Tuesday, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, a Democrat, said the hard-hit state’s site to apply for unemployment benefits was crashing due to unusually high volume. “I apologize for the pain—it must be infuriating to deal with,” he said.
Still, initial claims were dramatically higher in many states last week than two weeks ago, a sign that some states are making progress in processing a deluge of applications.

In California, about 880,000 claims were filed in the week ended March 28. That was up from approximately 190,000 claims in the previous week and the greatest number filed among all states last week. Pennsylvania and New York saw the second and third highest number of claims, respectively.
The record-setting jobless claims filed the last two weeks are unlikely to materialize in Friday’s March jobs report. The monthly unemployment report offers a more comprehensive view of the U.S. labor market, but the timing of the surveys for that data preceded the virus’s widespread impact on the economy.

A survey of households that determines the unemployment rate asked Americans if they reported to work during the week of March 8-14. Many coronavirus-related shutdowns occurred the following week, meaning the report likely will miss mass layoffs announced by restaurants, retailers, manufacturers and others because they occurred in the second half of March.

Similarly, a survey of employers, which determines payroll figures, asks for the head count during the pay period including March 12. If a worker was paid for any portion of that period, they were on a payroll.
Renee Munholand, a theater worker who helps hang lights and audio equipment for events in Seattle, successfully filed for unemployment after the city’s concerts and corporate events ground to a halt. She received her first two unemployment checks, which totaled about $1,200, on March 24.
The money is helping, she said, enabling her to make minimum payments on credit cards, buy food and make rent. She said she is keeping her heat turned down to trim costs.
“Depending on how long this goes, it could eventually start to be crippling,” she said.

Layoffs have been particularly widespread among small businesses. Such firms operate on lower cash reserves and quickly resorted to layoffs, according to researchers at the University of North Carolina’s Kenan-Flagler Business School. They estimated that up to 6.6 million small-business employees were immediately laid off when state governments in March began mandating businesses close to contain the virus’s spread.

Employees at small businesses tend to be lower-skill workers who suffer most from layoffs, said Paige Ouimet, a finance professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill’s business school.
“It’s sort of a double whammy that we’re expecting the biggest layoffs to occur for the type of worker it’s going to be most painful for,” she said.
Carol Schroeder, co-owner of Orange Tree Imports, a housewares shop in Madison, Wis., laid off 20 employees last week when the store closed to comply with state orders. Among those dismissed were workers she employed for three decades.

“I told them to go apply for unemployment insurance,” she said. “We’ve paid into it for 45 years, now’s the time to use it.” She plans to seek federal loans so she can pay workers’ health insurance and said she is confident they will return when her business reopens.
The roughly $2 trillion stimulus package passed by Congress and signed into law by President Trump last week is intended to help ease some of the financial pain many laid-off Americans are experiencing.
Labor Secretary Eugene Scalia earlier this week said funds to increase unemployment payments by $600 a week—more than double the existing maximum in some states—will be distributed to states this week, but he didn’t know when states would make such payments to individuals.

States say they are moving as quickly as possible to handle the sharp rise in demand for unemployment benefits. New York, Kentucky and Michigan are instructing unemployment-insurance applicants to stagger filings by day based on their last names. Many state labor departments also are reallocating or adding staff.
“The level of need for unemployment benefits right now is far beyond anything we’ve ever seen in such a short time,” said Gail Krumenauer, communications director at Oregon’s labor department.

Not all Americans who have been laid off or seen their hours reduced are eligible to receive unemployment benefits.
Kate Cavataio, 23 years old, lost her job as a physical-therapist technician in mid-March as patients started calling off scheduled therapy visits due to the coronavirus. Ms. Cavataio applied for unemployment benefits with the state of Michigan, but learned she wouldn’t be eligible because she didn’t make enough money last year.
“I was bummed, but it was just something I had to accept,” Ms. Cavataio said.
Without income from her physical-therapy work, she said, she won’t be able to apply to as many graduate schools as she had hoped.
“That greatly decreases my chances of getting in, and getting in is my dream,” she said.
 

TravelTime

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Lives are more important than mental health but the coronavirus is taking a huge toll on mental health. From the Washington Post:

———————-

Health

Coronavirus is harming the mental health of tens of millions of people in U.S., new poll finds

Nearly half the people in the United States feel the coronavirus crisis is harming their mental health, according to a survey published Thursday that demonstrates how the covid-19 pandemic has escalated into a nationwide psychological trauma.

The tracking poll by the Kaiser Family Foundation, conducted March 25 to 30, found that 45 percent of adults say the pandemic has affected their mental health, and 19 percent say it has had a “major impact.” The rates are slightly higher among women, Hispanic adults and black adults, the survey found.

The poll makes one thing clear: If you’re scared, anxious, depressed, struggling to sleep through the night, or just on edge, you’re not alone.

“It’s a huge number,” Kathy HoganBruen, a Washington clinical psychologist specializing in anxiety disorders, said in response to the poll results. But she added, “It’s not surprising given all the other huge numbers surrounding the pandemic in terms of joblessness, and social distancing, which can equal social isolation. And people dying. People getting sick. . . . All of these big numbers are going to have an outsized impact on our mental health collectively.”

Mental health experts say it’s normal for people to be anxious and worried amid a highly disruptive health emergency that is shot through with uncertainties.

“Given the circumstances, feeling anxious is part of a normal response to what’s going on,” said Joshua Gordon, director of the National Institute of Mental Health, after reviewing the poll numbers Thursday.

 

TravelTime

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Here is a double whammy. Health care workers are getting laid off! Not so good during a virus. Good luck getting a doctor‘s appointment. Pray you do not need health care except if you have the virus!

————————

Thousands of US medical workers furloughed, laid off as routine patient visits drop during coronavirus pandemic

Orr joins thousands of health care workers across the nation who have been laid off, furloughed or are working reduced hours as their services are deemed nonessential and patients skip routine visits during an outbreak of COVID-19 cases, based on reporting from advocacy groups and from news stories from across the nation.

As routine patient visits decline amid stay-at-home orders, thousands of health care professionals lack work

How many health care workers are included in the record 3.28 million Americans that filed for initial unemployment benefits last week is unknown. Specific data from the U.S. Department of Labor will be released when it reports its March unemployment numbers Friday.

Thousands of health care workers affected
The workers range from dentists and general surgeons to medical assistants and nurses, from allergists and dermatologists to primary care physicians and pediatricians.

By June, an estimated 60,000 family practices will close or significantly scale back, and 800,000 of their employees will be laid off, furloughed or have their hours reduced as they see a decline in business during the coronavirus pandemic, according to a HealthLandscape and American Academy of Family Physicians report released Thursday.........

 

DannyTS

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Here is a double whammy. Health care workers are getting laid off! Not so good during a virus. Good luck getting a doctor‘s appointment. Pray you do not need health care except if you have the virus!

————————

Thousands of US medical workers furloughed, laid off as routine patient visits drop during coronavirus pandemic

Orr joins thousands of health care workers across the nation who have been laid off, furloughed or are working reduced hours as their services are deemed nonessential and patients skip routine visits during an outbreak of COVID-19 cases, based on reporting from advocacy groups and from news stories from across the nation.

As routine patient visits decline amid stay-at-home orders, thousands of health care professionals lack work

How many health care workers are included in the record 3.28 million Americans that filed for initial unemployment benefits last week is unknown. Specific data from the U.S. Department of Labor will be released when it reports its March unemployment numbers Friday.

Thousands of health care workers affected
The workers range from dentists and general surgeons to medical assistants and nurses, from allergists and dermatologists to primary care physicians and pediatricians.

By June, an estimated 60,000 family practices will close or significantly scale back, and 800,000 of their employees will be laid off, furloughed or have their hours reduced as they see a decline in business during the coronavirus pandemic, according to a HealthLandscape and American Academy of Family Physicians report released Thursday.........

It does not surprise me at all. As a matter of fact, I have been very consistent on this, the health of many more people will suffer from the containment (through a depreciation of the medical act) than from the virus and many more lives will be affected, possibly lost. I just do not understand how people did not see it this way and still do not see it today.
 
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x3 skier

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Lives are more important than mental health but the coronavirus is taking a huge toll on mental health. From the Washington Post:

———————-

Health

Coronavirus is harming the mental health of tens of millions of people in U.S., new poll finds

Mental health experts say it’s normal for people to be anxious and worried amid a highly disruptive health emergency that is shot through with uncertainties.

“Given the circumstances, feeling anxious is part of a normal response to what’s going on,” said Joshua Gordon, director of the National Institute of Mental Health, after reviewing the poll numbers Thursday.

A poll that asked individuals if the Pandemic harmed your mental health is something I find ridiculous in the extreme. If 45% of the respondents say yes, that implies over 100 Million people have some mental health issue. I have zero doubt if they individuals were asked if they feel anxious about the Pandemic, the result would have been close to 90% yes.

The two sentences at the end is the only things that I think is worth anything in the article. Basically, it’s completely normal to feel anxiety in this situation, not “harming the mental health”. What a ludicrous poll to conduct and then report on.

Cheers
 

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It does not surprise me at all. As a matter of fact, I have been very consistent on this, the health of many more people will suffer from the containment (through a depreciation of the medical act) than from the virus. I just do not understand how people did not see it this way and still do not see it today.

Hi Danny,

I think people see it but they are prioritizing Covid-19 over other health care issues since it is reported to be more deadly.

On the bright side, I have a friend with prostate cancer. They were going to delay his surgery until May. Then they discovered the hospitals in the SF Bay Area are not as full so they called him to do the surgery next week. So if the hospitals do not get overwhelmed, perhaps critical surgeries can continue.
 

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Here is a double whammy. Health care workers are getting laid off! Not so good during a virus. Good luck getting a doctor‘s appointment. Pray you do not need health care except if you have the virus!

————————

Thousands of US medical workers furloughed, laid off as routine patient visits drop during coronavirus pandemic

Orr joins thousands of health care workers across the nation who have been laid off, furloughed or are working reduced hours as their services are deemed nonessential and patients skip routine visits during an outbreak of COVID-19 cases, based on reporting from advocacy groups and from news stories from across the nation.

As routine patient visits decline amid stay-at-home orders, thousands of health care professionals lack work

How many health care workers are included in the record 3.28 million Americans that filed for initial unemployment benefits last week is unknown. Specific data from the U.S. Department of Labor will be released when it reports its March unemployment numbers Friday.

Thousands of health care workers affected
The workers range from dentists and general surgeons to medical assistants and nurses, from allergists and dermatologists to primary care physicians and pediatricians.

By June, an estimated 60,000 family practices will close or significantly scale back, and 800,000 of their employees will be laid off, furloughed or have their hours reduced as they see a decline in business during the coronavirus pandemic, according to a HealthLandscape and American Academy of Family Physicians report released Thursday.........


Called for a Dr appointment last week and got one the next day.

Cheers
 

DannyTS

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Called for a Dr appointment last week and got one the next day.

Cheers
That was last week. Do you think the furloughs in the health care system have stopped today or they are going to continue?
 
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