Article in USA Today- Trapped in a timeshare? Here's how to escape

[Luvtoride]

Not sure if anyone posted (or saw) this yet but I'm sure its of interest to many here and will be posted eventually. Its pretty one-sided, from the standpoint of folks who don't use their timeshares but does have some interesting anecdotal comments about timeshare companies "taking back" weeks when owners stop paying their MFs.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/trav...-troubles-extricate-unwanted-unit/2375107002/

Nothing of earth shattering news here, just a piece to fill their business section with stories other than the stock market swoon at the end of '18.

Happy New Year to all!

 

[Panina]

If only they mentioned TUG. They missed the give it away point. Your only stuck with it for life if you don’t actively look to find it a new home.

 

[bogey21]

One thing in the article struck home with me. That is be persistent. Just keep calling when asking for a Deed Back. I did 3 Deed Backs a number of years ago. Never did my first phone call get it done. I think it took me 15-18 months with one HOA. Some on this board will tell you to write a letter. I prefer calling as that gives you multiple shots at multiple people...

George

 

[TUGBrian]

yep, i think most smaller resorts are predisposed to say no at the first attempt no matter what.

 

[pedro47]

I feel most large timeshare developers liked the deed back program. Then they can free up that fixed deed week and put it in their point base / club program and re-sell that deed week over and over again.
IMHO.

 

[TUGBrian]

I believe they like it since its currently not something thats well known or otherwise advertised for the most part.

IMO many resorts wouldnt survive the wave of folks calling to end their ownerships if it were common knowledge that they could simply call up and give it back etc.

for larger developers with point systems...that is much easier to absorb back into the system itself!

 

[e.bram]

Timeshare Vacations For Dummies. by Lisa Ann Schreier referenced by the USA
article. Any good?

 

[dioxide45]

Timeshare Vacations For Dummies. by Lisa Ann Schreier referenced by the USA
article. Any good?

It is a pretty old book. I borrowed it from the library when we first started timesharing in the mid 2000s. Some stuff would not have changed, but there would be some major differences in the industry today than pre market crash. I wouldn't bother reading it knowing what you can learn here.

 

[RetiredAF]

So I'm in the midst of a timeshare nightmare with The Links Golf and Racquet Club in N. Myrtle Beach. I stopped paying MX fees in 2015 and I have since been turned over to Pinnacle Recovery Collections. They have recently tapped my credit report and my credit score dropped over 100 points! I discussed turning the unit (wk 41) back to the association, but, of course, they declined the offer. My MFs cost me more annually than Joe Public can rent the same unit for off the street, as a non-owner! I also own week 21 at Las Olas in Satellite Beach, FL but that $700 annual MF gets me a rental fee of $1,400. In addition, I always get a copy of the financial statement listing income, expenses and other ways my maintenance fee gets used. I can't ever recall getting anything similar from The Links. So I would like to canvas the TUG in an attempt to get more information on The Links. Are there any other Links owners here? I'm trying to hard to dig myself out of this timeshare hole I dug for myself, but I need help. I appreciate any replies! Thanks!

 

[TravelTime]

According to the article: "A University of Central Florida (UCF) study found that 85 percent of timeshare owners who go to contract regret their purchase."

This is horrible. I thought more TS owners were happier than not. The industry has a lot of clean up to do or it will die from a bad reputation. The developers really need to educate people on how to use their TSs.

If the industry dies off, it could hurt us all since they could end up closing down the resorts we own. I guess they can just rent the TS units out as hotel rooms if the TS concept dies an ugly, bloody death.

You can email the author to make some additional points that he missed. His email is at the end of the article.

Update: Ha ha, I should have read the entire article before commenting. "The industry's own surveys show almost the exact opposite of the UCF study, suggesting 85 percent of all timeshare owners are happy with their purchases."

Okay so who is telling the truth here?

 

[pedro47]

Can we do a survey on TUG and ask 100 TUG owners are they satisfied with their timeshare purchase?
Yes or No (answer).

You can only cast your vote one time (with no side bar comments).

Can someone set this survey up? All person casting a vote will be confidential. (your TUG name will not be seen by other TUG members).

 

[DavidnRobin]

It is not really a yes/no answer - depends on the definition of ‘satisfied’. Also, will have a user bias.

I would say that if you asked the Typical TS Owner that did not buy resale (uninformed TS buyer/owner) that 85% dissatisfied is a reasonable estimate based on my interactions with TS owners over the years.

I think Tuggers number would be lower based on being knowledgeable (and biased).
Like me...



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[TravelTime]

I believe they like it since its currently not something thats well known or otherwise advertised for the most part.

IMO many resorts wouldnt survive the wave of folks calling to end their ownerships if it were common knowledge that they could simply call up and give it back etc.

for larger developers with point systems...that is much easier to absorb back into the system itself!

Maybe they could lower the price to buy directly from the developers if they had an active deed back program. Sort of like the hybrid contracts at Marriott. I think many of the weeks they bundle are buy backs. At least that is what one of the Marriott salespeople in corporate told me.

 

[LannyPC]

My MFs cost me more annually than Joe Public can rent the same unit for off the street, as a non-owner!

Sadly, that describes about >90% of the TSs out there which, in turn, explains why the TS industry is having so many problems.

 

[TravelTime]

Sadly, that describes about >90% of the TSs out there which, in turn, explains why the TS industry is having so many problems.

Yes I agree. To buy a timeshare these days, there needs to be some other ways to get value over renting or it makes no sense to make a big upfront investment.

 

[pedro47]

I agree with all the above statements, now renters/Joe Public can rent a week cheaper than paying maintenance fees plus the costs of buying from the developer or even buying a resale timeshare for a dollar.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Yes or No would be a different answer depending on the property and how it was purchased.

Resale = Yes
Developer = No
Overall = Yes-ish

Not satisfied with the developer purchase because we paid too much. May never recoup the initial investment (although we maximize VIPs/bouncebacks, and discounted stays, unique property benefits to get closer to break even). We are lucky that it turned out to be a good property and has decent trading, MF are low so worth keeping.

We are satisfied with our resale purchases because we researched these properties and know they we are saving money over rent with MF. These properties will sell for close to what we paid resale (or if we ultimately give away, they are in demand and we are still way ahead with rental savings.).

 

[CalGalTraveler]

One of the most ironic parts of buying developer timeshares is that first-time buyers are attracted to the smallest buy-in because one would believe it would have the least risk; i.e. less money. Dip your toe in the water before you dive in, right?

However those often are the worst units (low trading points, mud season, low rental value) and are the hardest to get rid of = highest risk of lock-in. Worse yet, many of these buyers can least afford a timeshare and when times get tough they are the first to want out of these albatrosses. Tug boards are laden with stories of these unhappy buyers.

The timeshare industry is countering this now with points programs via a trust portfolio. This may offer a path for buyers to dispose of them via deedbacks by throwing them back into the trust or selling points on the market instead of having to find a buyer for a property nobody wants and putting HOAs at risk of default. Perhaps this will make TS purchases more fluid, but hope it isn't lipstick on a pig.

 

[Luvtoride]

One of the most ironic parts of buying developer timeshares is that first-time buyers are attracted to the smallest buy-in because one would believe it would have the least risk; i.e. less money. Dip your toe in the water before you dive in, right?

However those often are the worst units (low trading points, mud season, low rental value) and are the hardest to get rid of = highest risk of lock-in. Worse yet, many of these buyers can least afford a timeshare and when times get tough they are the first to want out of these albatrosses. Tug boards are laden with stories of these unhappy buyers.

The timeshare industry is countering this now with points programs via a trust portfolio. This may offer a path for buyers to dispose of them via deedbacks by throwing them back into the trust or selling points on the market instead of having to find a buyer for a property nobody wants and putting HOAs at risk of default. Perhaps this will make TS purchases more fluid, but hope it isn't lipstick on a pig.

Interesting point, CalGal. If after all this time and all these developers they haven’t found the “secret formula” that makes sense and motivates the buyers while being viable for the developers I’d venture to say that formula doesn’t exist.
I would think that an option to sell back to the developer at some agreed upon formula in the future would be the best option to motivate more sales but probably is not economically viable to the developer. Somewhere between seller asking prices and ROFR exercise prices might be the right point to allow for an “escape” clause/ buyback program after x number of years of ownership and timely MF payments. I wouldn’t hold my breath though!



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[CalGalTraveler]

@Luvtoride I agree that they haven't found the best formula, but they have to figure it out. Exit ads are all over primetime cable TV - so even if one doesn't own a timeshare, it would make one think twice before buying.

I also wonder if the market for new buyers is saturated. It seems that most people I know own, have owned, or know of someone who owns a timeshare. If 85% are unhappy with developer purchases as the study suggests then they would not likely buy again. This is perhaps why HGVC is focusing on Asian buyers these days.

 

[bogey21]

It is not really a yes/no answer - depends on the definition of ‘satisfied’.

I also think "satisfied" has something to do with where you are in the TS "cycle". I was happy with Marriott until they changed their rules. I was happy with my Monarch Crown Suite until my kids grew up. I was happy with my 6 Fixed Week/Fixed Units until bitten with age and health issues. The secret IMO is to make changes in your TS portfolio as your needs/desires change...

George

 

[AJCts411]

While I own weeks, which I bought to use due to spiraling rental costs in Key West, I still do not understand the attraction to a (for example) $20,000 or more investment...better said "sunk money"... for the promise of "fantastic" vacations. Pure snake oil to me. If the ROI is NOT within 4 or 5 years, that is the cost of the purchase and maintenance fees, versus the cost of renting then why would one take on such a financial risk?

I see a lot of discussion of early selection, first in line, best views, nicer units and all that but at what cost? Is this the under lying motivation to buy points for tens of thousands? The string that weasel sales specialists know how to pull to get your check? Being first? (no offense intended or meant to anyone)

 

[Steve Fatula]

So, my experience from talking to many TS owners in a hot tub or pool area, or around a resort, is that the vast majority are happy. I've never actually met, at a resort, an unhappy member. You can get into some long conversations in hot tubs. Most of those are not even happy, they are very happy.

So, does that mean I agree that 85% are happy? No, but it may mean 85% of those using them (or the system) might be happy for the most part. I see references on TUG to people who only rent out until they can sell, etc. Those would not be at the resort. I suspect a large number are unhappy, I just don't believe (or hope) it isn't 85%. Perhaps those you do the most basic of usage, i.e., use one week a year, are not happy as well.

We remain very happy with our developer purchases and our resale purchases. The way we travel, it is simply impossible to rent the places we go to for less than the MF used. I always reject that notion based on our experience. I suppose that can depend on what you own and how you use it.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Good points @bogey21 @Steve Fatula. Happiness will fluctuate depending on when you ask.

If you asked the question around MF payment time, I expect that happiness drops dramatically, but if you ask when owners are using their TS they are very happy.

 

[TUGBrian]

that 85% number has been thrown out by both sides for years...

if you ask the right question, you can get the statistical response you want to support your argument...sadly it doesnt make it any more accurate when used intentionally to make a DIFFERENT point.

if I ask folks

"outside of the sales presentation, how happy are you with your ownership"

or

"while you were on your last vacation, how happy were you with your ownership"

or

"ignoring the problems with selling, how happy were you with your Timeshare ownership"

that is likely to result in a staggering % of owners replying in a positive way, thus i can then use that wonderful positive response rate to support my stance of "most timeshare owners are very happy!"


turned around, ask those same folks:

"would you have bought a timeshare again if you could go back and do it all over"

id imagine that number swings almost COMPLETELY in the opposite direction.