Are you happy??

[1Melanie]

A lo

I've been considering buying a low maintenance fee Wyndham contract for a while, waiting for the right time and the right opportunity. But reading this forum consistently I've come away with a palpable sense of frustration, anger and cynicism from some of the owners posting here, which gives me pause about buying in. Some of the pain points in recent posts:

• Terrible, clunky website that makes finding and booking what you want difficult and painful, with seemingly no prospect of it improving.
• Check-in staff hassling owners to attend sales presentations.
• Revelations that Wyndham prioritizes its own rental bookings and inventory to the detriment of owners.
• A draconian crackdown on renting (that to my eyes appears to be scapegoating owners as a cover for the above shady practice of de-prioritizing owner inventory).
• The approved rental portal (Extra Holidays) that seems to operate barely better than a scam.

And that doesn't even address sales tactics, which need not be rehashed here. So here's my question to all the owners here: given how Wyndham operates, are you happy with your ownership? Are the vacations you get at Wyndham resorts worth the negatives mentioned above and elsewhere? On balance, if you had it to do over again, knowing what you know now, would you buy Wyndham aga

All good questions. The answer depends on how you view vacations. It’s different from person to person.
We are long time owners. We made our first purchase when the resort we bought was Vacation Break.
As workaholics, we made the decision to buy because we knew we had to take breaks once in awhile. Prior to becoming owners, my husband and I would take “duty” trips. I’m originally from Hawaii, my husband from India. Living in Washington state now, our trips consisted of visiting family periodically. Many envied our trips simply because of where we were from. But… visiting family is NOT the same as taking a vacation . Sometimes it can be stressful.
In 1993, We made a conscious decision to take a non-duty related REAL vacation. It consisted of a 4 day pass to Disney, a 4 day cruise on the BIG RED BOAT in an inside cabin to the Bahamas with round trip air for 3. It cost a little over $6k. That was a considerable amount of money back then and took a chunk of our budget. Soon after we received an invitation for a mini vacation to Florida, 2 nights at the Westin, a rental car and a day cruise to the Bahamas with 4 nights in a hotel room at a nice resort then back to the Westin in Orlando for another night. All for $249 plus air. It required a 90 minute presentation. We toured the Santa Barbara. After being squeezed into hotel rooms we were in awe of these beautiful condos!
We sat thru the presentation. When it seemed we weren’t going to buy, they graciously shook our hands and were ready to send us on our way. We asked for a few moments to discuss it, Took time to crunch the numbers and determined it was indeed a great investment in our well being! For a little more than what we paid for that $6k vacation, we became owners guaranteeing that it would force us to take a much needed vacation each and every year! The first trip we made was on an RCI exchange to the El Cid in Mazatlan. Our son was little at the time. What he said when we walked into that room said it all. He walked to the expansive window that faced the ocean, threw his arms out and declared “I’m in heaven.” We will never ever forget that. That was the beginning of memory building for us and him. Since then, we have added and adjusted our portfolio.
We are happy Founders/Presidential Reserve owners with Wyndham. We recently added our children to the ownership so when we are no longer able to use it, they can. One grandchild associates us with getting to sitting in hot tubs. Priceless!
The program has evolved through the years and has become easier to use. Some resorts have higher maintenance fees than others. It’s up to you to decide what you hope to get out of it, how much you’re willing to pay for it and what you can afford. If you stay on track, you won’t be disappointed.
As with lots of products, many buy on impulse without giving any thought about how they’re going to pay for it or if they can even afford what they’re buying. As with anyone who suffers from post purchase dissonance/buyers remorse, they will complain and claim foul when the bill comes due and realize they can’t really afford an extra payment. Think before you buy so you can feel confident in your purchase. We all have times when money is tight so try not to overextend yourself at the start.
Many buy on the secondary market. If you want to test the waters, that would be an inexpensive way to start. If you want to go all in, you’re better off buying from the resort. Wyndham is making it more difficult to take advantage of all the perks that come with different levels of ownership where resales are concerned. That being said, it is more expensive to go that route but NEVER be afraid to ask about their close outs. Those are often more affordable than the resort you’re staying at. You can always upgrade as the years go by to get what you really want.
For those of us that have chosen to make travel and vacation an integral part of our lives, it’s very worth it.
It’s totally up to you to decide how and what you want out of it. If you plan and make a conscious decision you want this too, you won’t regret it.

 

[Jan M.]

Many of us own more than one timeshare system because that works beautifully for our needs. It's my observation that owning in more than two systems is more challenging and complicated than most people want to have to deal with.

Also many of us have readjusted our portfolios as we learned more or our needs changed. Make the effort to learn enough that you aren't saddling yourself with something you'll have trouble re-homing if you dont want to keep it and don't overpay for what you buy.

 

[chapjim]

** QUESTIONABLE CONTENT REMOVED BY MODERATOR **

As a non-renter, am I unhappy with my ownership? No...

Do I think the website sucks? Hell yeah, but do I regret my ownership because of that? No...

Do I tire of the endless sales tactics? Yes... but I ignore them more often than not, except that wacky lady Kim at Governors Green who makes my blood boil

Do I give a crap that people who rented lost their revenue streams... because at the end of the day, they were making money on the backs of other owners, and that's not the intent of timeshare ownership... so sorry, not sorry

Just returned from a week at Governor's Green. The last day, I asked the "concierge" people what happened to Kim (spiky hair, orange Corvette). Response was that she moved to another resort.

Kingsgate or Patriot's Place?? Or, another town?

 

[schreff]

Please produce documentation in the members directory that explicitly states that benefits have disappeared - please produce explicit reference to the "Do Not Move" benefit that has since disappeared. I've only seen explicit reference to the Room Request function - from a dated 2009-2010 members directory that is 14 years old. Here's a screenshot from the same 2009-2010 members directory followed immediately by a screenshot from the current members directory from 23/24 specific to this benefit:

View attachment 73097

View attachment 73095

Both screenshots above say the exact same thing in lamen's terms with regard to requesting a specific room number while subject to availability. This documentation spans a 14 year time period and shows consistency. No where in the documentation anywhere that I can find reference to any "Do Not Move" VIP benefit. What we call these undocumented and unstated types of features are perks - not benefits. We've seen many Perks disappear over time - but they are not stated benefits and they never were benefits. One such large Perk that was removed relatively recently was VIP benefits applying to resale points. This was primarily a system limitation more than anything else. The policy was always in place that VIP benefits did not apply to resale points/contracts - but the system didn't differentiate until it was changed a couple years back now. I enjoyed this perk for the first couple of years of my ownership - but I also understood that it was a perk - not a stated benefit - and therefore Wyndham might eliminate that perk at any time - as they did. The "Do Not Move" perk that you're referring to was obviously something that VIP owners took advantage of in the past - but that perk has since been eliminated. What we recommend here on TUG is to accept the fundamental difference between a perk and a stated benefit. While it's always somewhat disappointing when loopholes are closed - I for one am simply thankful for the time I was able to enjoy said loophole/perk - rather than cursing Wyndham and claiming that these "benefits" are being removed. Unless and until someone can show me that the "do not move" function was a stated benefit - all the rest is just conversation so to speak. I'm from the Missouri state - show me the actual evidence. I just clearly demonstrated via the two screenshots above that for the past 14 years - the ability to request rooms hasn't changed materially. I consider this a closed matter, at least for my part, until someone can show me documentation that clearly disputes this finding. Other forum members are welcome to continue the online debate if they so desire of course.

As a moderator, perhaps you should look on the other forum topic, VIP SPECIFIC ROOM REQUEST Gone With The Wind. You will see you are wrong. And perhaps you could do a little better job at researching the past facts along with many of the others who attack without researching the truth.

 

[paxsarah]

As a moderator, perhaps you should look on the other forum topic, VIP SPECIFIC ROOM REQUEST Gone With The Wind. You will see you are wrong. And perhaps you could do a little better job at researching the past facts along with many of the others who attack without researching the truth.

He’s asking for written documentation of “do not move” as a benefit, which I haven’t seen in any thread. I think it seems clear that the ability of the system to provide a satisfactory execution of the benefit as written (unit request, subject to availability) was more effective prior to 2017 - that is, a VC could provide service that went above and beyond the scope of the benefit as written (as “do not move” was never a stated benefit) - but that both before and since 2017 what Wyndham’s been providing technically complies with the wording of the benefit.

 

[HitchHiker71]

As a moderator, perhaps you should look on the other forum topic, VIP SPECIFIC ROOM REQUEST Gone With The Wind. You will see you are wrong. And perhaps you could do a little better job at researching the past facts along with many of the others who attack without researching the truth.

Show me where I attacked anyone. Disagreement is never defined as being attacked especially on public forums. Again, this perk is not a stated benefit listed for any VIP program since inception at Wyndham. Show me Wyndham documentation that says otherwise and I’m happy to admit I’m wrong. Others on this and other TUG threads came to your rescue and actually described the stated perk in enough detail to indicate that the “do not move” perk existed - I don’t recall this perk being outlined in any of your posts in comparison. This shows how we are “better together” when it comes to issues like this. Either way, I then created a thread for VIP stated benefits and perks to capture a list of reasons why legacy VIP owners may feel that their benefits are being whittled away over the long term.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mongoose]

Show me where I attacked anyone. Disagreement is never defined as being attacked especially on public forums. Again, this perk is not a stated benefit listed for any VIP program since inception at Wyndham. Show me Wyndham documentation that says otherwise and I’m happy to admit I’m wrong. Others on this and other TUG threads came to your rescue and actually described the stated perk in enough detail to indicate that the “do not move” perk existed - I don’t recall this perk being outlined in any of your posts in comparison. This shows how we are “better together” when it comes to issues like this. Either way, I then created a thread for VIP stated benefits and perks to capture a list of reasons why legacy VIP owners may feel that their benefits are being whittled away over the long term.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We live in a different world now where disagreement or even a different opinion is an attack or seen as hate.

 

[schreff]

Show me where I attacked anyone. Disagreement is never defined as being attacked especially on public forums. Again, this perk is not a stated benefit listed for any VIP program since inception at Wyndham. Show me Wyndham documentation that says otherwise and I’m happy to admit I’m wrong. Others on this and other TUG threads came to your rescue and actually described the stated perk in enough detail to indicate that the “do not move” perk existed - I don’t recall this perk being outlined in any of your posts in comparison. This shows how we are “better together” when it comes to issues like this. Either way, I then created a thread for VIP stated benefits and perks to capture a list of reasons why legacy VIP owners may feel that their benefits are being whittled away over the long term.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is apparent that you do not read what I wrote and/or took it out of context. I never said you, Hitchhiker71 attacked anyone. Please don't try to twist the words written as I stated " many of the others who attack without researching the truth ". Please read again and then try to stay on topic and answer the questions posed by me in my posts. To repeat again.

Again, are you, as moderator, stating that I have not been factual in stating that over 10 years ago as a VIP I was not able to talk to a vacation guide who could determine the availability of a specific room at the time of reservation and put a DO NOT MOVE on the entire reservation (in my case up to 3 months)? It is clear that then "based on availability" was availability at the time of booking not the time of arrival? If so, you are wrong and purposely disseminating misinformation to readers. Perhaps you should check with Wyndham and verify that this was their policy over 10 years ago. And ask them if not, what the heck good is this so-benefit and why is it even listed at present? And you are barking up the wrong tree if you attempt to hide behind DO NOT MOVE being a benefit when no one ever said it was ever a listed benefit. It was a policy of Wyndhams to help with inventory control. We, like other VIPs, were told to do this by the vacation guide at the time of booking a resort longer than a week. Simple for most to understand and confirms that fact that THEN " based upon availability " meant availability at the time of reservation. Hopefully repeating this over and over will help some understand the worthlessness of their arguments.

Lastly, I do not consider your comments as attacks but only debates. However, you must admit that others within this forum have not been kind with their words when responding to my posts.
Yesterday at 3:56 PM

As a moderator, perhaps you should look on the other forum topic, VIP SPECIFIC ROOM REQUEST Gone With The Wind. You will see you are wrong. And perhaps you could do a little better job at researching the past facts along with many of the others who attack without researching the truth

He’s asking for written documentation of “do not move” as a benefit, which I haven’t seen in any thread. I think it seems clear that the ability of the system to provide a satisfactory execution of the benefit as written (unit request, subject to availability) was more effective prior to 2017 - that is, a VC could provide service that went above and beyond the scope of the benefit as written (as “do not move” was never a stated benefit) - but that both before and since 2017 what Wyndham’s been providing technically complies with the wording of the benefit.

 

[schreff]

He’s asking for written documentation of “do not move” as a benefit, which I haven’t seen in any thread. I think it seems clear that the ability of the system to provide a satisfactory execution of the benefit as written (unit request, subject to availability) was more effective prior to 2017 - that is, a VC could provide service that went above and beyond the scope of the benefit as written (as “do not move” was never a stated benefit) - but that both before and since 2017 what Wyndham’s been providing technically complies with the wording of the benefit.

It was never listed in any of the old directories to the best of my knowledge. However, it was a benefit to Wyndham and their owners. The DO NOT MOVE was a Wyndham suggestion for inventory control purposes and the benefit of not only their owners but also the resort and housekeeping. The point is MOOT because it no longer exists like many of the other Gone With the Wind benefits.

I am still awaiting a valid explanation as to the listed disappearing benefits. For example, the fact is that there is no other reasonable definition of " based on availability " except availability at time of reservation. If not, what is the benefit? None, why because the most desirable units are requested by all (non VIPs and retail buyers) at the time of check-in or before. We, sometimes arrive late at night on the date of reservation so anyone who asks for a specific room, building or view who arrives before us gets the room we requested 13 months prior? It this fair? It doesn't make sense and was not Wyndham's policy in the past. Gone With The Wind

 

[CO skier]

 

[Sandi Bo]

It was never listed in any of the old directories to the best of my knowledge. However, it was a benefit to Wyndham and their owners. The DO NOT MOVE was a Wyndham suggestion for inventory control purposes and the benefit of not only their owners but also the resort and housekeeping. The point is MOOT because it no longer exists like many of the other Gone With the Wind benefits.

I am still awaiting a valid explanation as to the listed disappearing benefits. For example, the fact is that there is no other reasonable definition of " based on availability " except availability at time of reservation. If not, what is the benefit? None, why because the most desirable units are requested by all (non VIPs and retail buyers) at the time of check-in or before. We, sometimes arrive late at night on the date of reservation so anyone who asks for a specific room, building or view who arrives before us gets the room we requested 13 months prior? It this fair? It doesn't make sense and was not Wyndham's policy in the past. Gone With The Wind

I feel like you are talking about 2 different things.

'DO NOT MOVE' was at one time a memo put on a reservation when it was booked (or any time prior to checkin). Since prior to May, 2017, all rooms were (unbeknownst to many) assigned room numbers at the time of booking. The VC's could see that room number - if it was a room you wanted, they could place the 'DO NOT MOVE' memo on the reservation. Many resorts would honor that designation. They did not have to. Or there might be a maintenance issue in the room. Things like that. No guarantees, but a very good chance your request would be honored.

Not moving rooms if you have multiple consecutive reservations is also something very common - and I believe extended to all. And, yes, even today, that can be called 'do not move' or sometimes the resort will call it a 'stay over' (always amuses me, sounds like we're all having a big sleepover). Anyways - 2 different things in my mind. As far as supporting the original 'DO NOT MOVE', I just don't think the Voyager and Holiday systems can support that the way pre-Voyager did. So, yes, gone with the wind so to speak as of May 2017. Our world changed May 18, 2017, that's for sure. Pre-voyager the system was architected around weekly reservations, that checked in on Fri, Sat, or Sunday. This resulted in what we used to see as 'split reservations' and orphans. Terms we don't see anymore - because with Voyager, they don't apply. (Once can argue orphans still happen, but let's not). Because Wyndham was (is) trying to be more flexible with any day checkins, any length of stay, the system today is architectured differently).

I don't get the impression that corporate Wyndham has anything to do today with how rooms are assigned. Other than the capability to enter a 'special request' when you are booking (with VIP developer points) - the actual room assignment is in the hands of the resorts. You will be hard pressed to get a room number in advance (maybe impossible - the resort staff is well trained not to promise or inform you of anything that would cause you to think differently - until you check in and have your key (and room number) in your hot little hand). Depending on the resort, I call in advance and request what I want. You are absolutely right, if you get there late, you get the bottom of the barrel. We try really hard not to get there late, but sometimes we can't avoid it. I have to say, I would hate to be the staff at the resorts - all day long they listen to people complain if they didn't get that lakeview or ocean front room. And if those complainers are there before you - the resort staff may move them to your more desirable room. I don't like that - but it's reality. One of our most recent stays at Bonnet Creek, we had a parking lot view in Tower 1. We didn't get in until 11pm. Being VIP Founders and owners at Bonnet Creek didn't help us. We moved to Ocean Walk - made sure to get there before 2pm - got an ocean front corner overlooking the bandshell. I doubt that room would have been there for us at 11pm.

Perhaps the most effective thing to do is email Michael Brown? State it's a benefit we'd appreciate Wyndham standing behind. Could they reinforce/remind the resorts that the room requests are a promised VIP benefit and every effort to meet our requests should be made? But I do think it's important to understand why it doesn't work the way it used to. If there is a particular room you want, I suggest requesting it or a similar room. I might say - we'd like room 123, please assign it or a similar ocean front view (for example). Or I might just say any ocean front. Or I might say, at Ocean Walk we need floor 8 or below for easy access for someone who has mobility challenges (so we want to try to park and walk to our room as easily as possible).

Any valid explanation would need to come from Wyndham, no? And thus, again, I suggest emailing Michael Brown. Determining availability at the time of booking is likely no longer even a possibility. Availability at the time of check-in will then depend on how committed Wyndham is to hold a room for the VIPs - they could - but do they? I suggest to some extent they do - and demanding, if you will, that Wyndham make all reasonable attempts possible, is something we need to ask of Wyndham (not TUG).

Learn to ignore the people here that don't know what they are talking about. And be nice to @HitchHiker71 - he doesn't work for Wyndham, he's trying to help and has made some valuable connections that help us all. He's owned since 2018 so understand he needs good details on how things worked pre-Voyager if he's going to try to present anything to Wyndham on our behalf. I feel like this type issue is up to us oldies that could best communicate the loss of benefits directly to Michael Brown if we expect anything productive to come of all this.

 

[chapjim]

The worst job at a resort has to be assigning rooms to reservations. It really can't happen until Day 14 before check-in because of possible cancellations.

It's probably something like trying to do a jigsaw puzzle that doesn't have a picture. Or, being in an aircraft hangar -- you're at one end and the door is at the other end and someone turns off the lights.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Perhaps the most effective thing to do is email Michael Brown? State it's a benefit we'd appreciate Wyndham standing behind. Could they reinforce/remind the resorts that the room requests are a promised VIP benefit and every effort to meet our requests should be made? But I do think it's important to understand why it doesn't work the way it used to. If there is a particular room you want, I suggest requesting it or a similar room. I might say - we'd like room 123, please assign it or a similar ocean front view (for example). Or I might just say any ocean front. Or I might say, at Ocean Walk we need floor 8 or below for easy access for someone who has mobility challenges (so we want to try to park and walk to our room as easily as possible).

Any valid explanation would need to come from Wyndham, no? And thus, again, I suggest emailing Michael Brown. Determining availability at the time of booking is likely no longer even a possibility. Availability at the time of check-in will then depend on how committed Wyndham is to hold a room for the VIPs - they could - but do they? I suggest to some extent they do - and demanding, if you will, that Wyndham make all reasonable attempts possible, is something we need to ask of Wyndham (not TUG).

Learn to ignore the people here that don't know what they are talking about. And be nice to @HitchHiker71 - he doesn't work for Wyndham, he's trying to help and has made some valuable connections that help us all. He's owned since 2018 so understand he needs good details on how things worked pre-Voyager if he's going to try to present anything to Wyndham on our behalf. I feel like this type issue is up to us oldies that could best communicate the loss of benefits directly to Michael Brown if we expect anything productive to come of all this.

Thanks for posting this. I agree we should take an “all of the above” type approach. We should be using the website feedback mechanism, emailing VIPs at Wyndham (pun intended), and utilizing any/all internal contacts when appropriate. One big thing that changed with the implementation of the current website is how Wyndham collects feedback and prioritizes said feedback. Prior to the current website, Wyndham did not have any public feedback mechanism in place for the online experience that actually worked as it should. The current website feedback mechanism actually works and the collective feedback is reviewed on a scheduled basis. What this translates to is that the feedback is collected and rationalized and then reviewed. The Add Nights function is a good example of the website feedback mechanism in action. A vast number of owners asked for the ability to modify dates. Notice that this feature name changed to Modify Dates now - not just Add Nights - indicating that the ability to remove nights is likely coming at some point. It was feasible to add the ability to add nights to a reservation first - but not so easy to add the ability to remove nights in comparison - so they implemented the add nights function first. My big picture point is that a LOT of owners asked for the ability to modify nights. A lot of owners are NOT asking for the ability to reserve specific room numbers in comparison. If we want certain features to be considered - a LOT of VIP owners are going to need to be providing this feedback via the website feedback mechanism - because outlier requests are simply ignored. Sorry - the laws of numbers are now driving development - which is a good thing really - that’s how this should work big picture. Those who value the outlier requests might not like this - since Wyndham historically placed undue focus on certain requests based upon sentimental feedback mechanisms and not actual data based feedback mechanisms.

That said - we do have some influence we can peddle and that’s what we do here on TUG - we win some we lose some. Most of our feedback tends to focus on bugs with the current website system - given there are many - but based on this thread I am certainly willing to collect data in an effort to tell a good story about how legacy VIP owners feel that benefits are being whittled away over time. That’s why I started a thread for this purpose recently. We will see where all this goes - but as @Sandi Bo said, I need hard data - specific bullet points with specific details on what used to exist that no longer exists - and what VIP owners want improved. I need concise problem and solution statements. The more data we can provide - the more likely we are to get someone’s attention and have follow up conversations with the goal of making improvements to the current systems over time where feasible. I hope this makes sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[keno999]

Thanks for posting this. I agree we should take an “all of the above” type approach. We should be using the website feedback mechanism, emailing VIPs at Wyndham (pun intended), and utilizing any/all internal contacts when appropriate. One big thing that changed with the implementation of the current website is how Wyndham collects feedback and prioritizes said feedback. Prior to the current website, Wyndham did not have any public feedback mechanism in place for the online experience that actually worked as it should. The current website feedback mechanism actually works and the collective feedback is reviewed on a scheduled basis. What this translates to is that the feedback is collected and rationalized and then reviewed. The Add Nights function is a good example of the website feedback mechanism in action. A vast number of owners asked for the ability to modify dates. Notice that this feature name changed to Modify Dates now - not just Add Nights - indicating that the ability to remove nights is likely coming at some point. It was feasible to add the ability to add nights to a reservation first - but not so easy to add the ability to remove nights in comparison - so they implemented the add nights function first. My big picture point is that a LOT of owners asked for the ability to modify nights. A lot of owners are NOT asking for the ability to reserve specific room numbers in comparison. If we want certain features to be considered - a LOT of VIP owners are going to need to be providing this feedback via the website feedback mechanism - because outlier requests are simply ignored. Sorry - the laws of numbers are now driving development - which is a good thing really - that’s how this should work big picture. Those who value the outlier requests might not like this - since Wyndham historically placed undue focus on certain requests based upon sentimental feedback mechanisms and not actual data based feedback mechanisms.

That said - we do have some influence we can peddle and that’s what we do here on TUG - we win some we lose some. Most of our feedback tends to focus on bugs with the current website system - given there are many - but based on this thread I am certainly willing to collect data in an effort to tell a good story about how legacy VIP owners feel that benefits are being whittled away over time. That’s why I started a thread for this purpose recently. We will see where all this goes - but as @Sandi Bo said, I need hard data - specific bullet points with specific details on what used to exist that no longer exists - and what VIP owners want improved. I need concise problem and solution statements. The more data we can provide - the more likely we are to get someone’s attention and have follow up conversations with the goal of making improvements to the current systems over time where feasible. I hope this makes sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1 night stays! I know, I know, just sayin..... I still provide that feedback when I do a survey.

 

[HitchHiker71]

1 night stays! I know, I know, just sayin..... I still provide that feedback when I do a survey.

That’s actually one of the exact items I often ask for when submitting website feedback!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[WyndhamBarter]

@keno999, @HitchHiker71 - one-night stays are my favorite feature these days
of my much smaller Worldmark ownership. That combined with Bonus Time
(last minute stays for cash instead of credits) is awesome for impromptu driving
trips, especially in the West.

If Worldmark can reinstate one-nighters after the pandemic, surely Wyndham can.

Sigh - and I’ll try to remember to keep requesting this with website feedback.

 

[keno999]

@keno999, @HitchHiker71 - one-night stays are my favorite feature these days
of my much smaller Worldmark ownership. That combined with Bonus Time
(last minute stays for cash instead of credits) is awesome for impromptu driving
trips, especially in the West.

If Worldmark can reinstate one-nighters after the pandemic, surely Wyndham can.

Sigh - and I’ll try to remember to keep requesting this with website feedback.

I agree. As it turns out, I picked up a larger WM contract than I needed. I've used some 1 night stays but have used Bonus Time more than I would have expected. The good thing is I can sell my credits pretty close to my MF's to other WM owners pretty easy.

 

[HitchHiker71]

It is apparent that you do not read what I wrote and/or took it out of context. I never said you, Hitchhiker71 attacked anyone. Please don't try to twist the words written as I stated " many of the others who attack without researching the truth ". Please read again and then try to stay on topic and answer the questions posed by me in my posts. To repeat again.

Again, are you, as moderator, stating that I have not been factual in stating that over 10 years ago as a VIP I was not able to talk to a vacation guide who could determine the availability of a specific room at the time of reservation and put a DO NOT MOVE on the entire reservation (in my case up to 3 months)? It is clear that then "based on availability" was availability at the time of booking not the time of arrival? If so, you are wrong and purposely disseminating misinformation to readers. Perhaps you should check with Wyndham and verify that this was their policy over 10 years ago. And ask them if not, what the heck good is this so-benefit and why is it even listed at present? And you are barking up the wrong tree if you attempt to hide behind DO NOT MOVE being a benefit when no one ever said it was ever a listed benefit. It was a policy of Wyndhams to help with inventory control. We, like other VIPs, were told to do this by the vacation guide at the time of booking a resort longer than a week. Simple for most to understand and confirms that fact that THEN " based upon availability " meant availability at the time of reservation. Hopefully repeating this over and over will help some understand the worthlessness of their arguments.

Lastly, I do not consider your comments as attacks but only debates. However, you must admit that others within this forum have not been kind with their words when responding to my posts.
Yesterday at 3:56 PM

My apologies if I jumped to conclusions - many of your recent posts seem to be targeting my replies so it's not without precedent. I also think you're conflating my role as moderator with my participation in forum posts. Please note and read the tagline in my signature, which clearly states the following:

All my posts should be considered my personal opinion or experience unless otherwise noted.

This is important to point out as nothing in this thread in any of my posts has anything to do with moderator roles/responsibilities. I'm simply participating in this thread just like any other TUGGER posting here. What I do with Wyndham IT or any other Wyndham contacts - again has nothing to do with moderator roles/responsibilities. So please stop referencing anything to do with my role as moderator as it is out of scope for what we're discussing in this or any other thread. If/when I post something as a forum moderator, everyone will know as I will place "MODERATOR POST" in bold letters when doing so - to clearly differentiate between personal and moderator posts.

As I outlined in my above post - what I need is a concise problem statement and a concise recommended solution statement. As far as I can tell, the issues you're referring to don't violate the stated VIP benefit - which is subject to availability - it doesn't say subject to availability at the time of booking - this is an assumption on your part. Even if it did violate the stated VIP benefit, the contracts that you and everyone else signed (myself included - I read them all), indicate that the program manager has the right to change the VIP program at any time, subject to their sole discretion. You may not like that, heck I may not like that, but I accept it given we all signed contracts that contain verbiage that directly states that the rules outlined in the member directory are binding for all owners.

Lastly - the core issue here, best estimate, is that Wyndham made a fairly significant change to their systems when they implemented Voyager - moving from a centralized reservation system where rooms were evidently assigned at the time of booking - to a distributed reservation system that does not assign rooms at the time of booking - and they transferred room assignments to the local resorts - this was done when Voyager was implemented in mid 2017. This was likely a huge change in system architecture - and therefore isn't something Wyndham can easily reverse or alter. Why they did this is really anyone's guess - and we've already prognosticated on various threads about the why - but one thing is certain - the timeshare program manager has the right to manage the system however they see fit within reason. As long as the system meets the stated requirements set out in the founding trust documents, and specific to the VIP benefit in scope, best of luck if you want to challenge them on legal grounds given the contracts you and everyone else signed long ago. The bottom line is that the stated benefit is still being met - room requests for VIPs is still available -and is still subject to availability. Obviously it's worse now than pre-Voyager - but there is no stated VIP benefit that outlines how or when this benefit is delivered.

In my view, the best we can do is to appeal to Wyndham's "better angels" in hopes of trying to find a compromise solution that would bring back this capability in some form or fashion - and this is what I will try to do on behalf of TUGGERs here and owners at large. We should do so via all available communication modalities - including emails to the CEO, website feedback, and any other methods available to us.

 

[schreff]

My apologies if I jumped to conclusions - many of your recent posts seem to be targeting my replies so it's not without precedent. I also think you're conflating my role as moderator with my participation in forum posts. Please note and read the tagline in my signature, which clearly states the following:



This is important to point out as nothing in this thread in any of my posts has anything to do with moderator roles/responsibilities. I'm simply participating in this thread just like any other TUGGER posting here. What I do with Wyndham IT or any other Wyndham contacts - again has nothing to do with moderator roles/responsibilities. So please stop referencing anything to do with my role as moderator as it is out of scope for what we're discussing in this or any other thread. If/when I post something as a forum moderator, everyone will know as I will place "MODERATOR POST" in bold letters when doing so - to clearly differentiate between personal and moderator posts.

As I outlined in my above post - what I need is a concise problem statement and a concise recommended solution statement. As far as I can tell, the issues you're referring to don't violate the stated VIP benefit - which is subject to availability - it doesn't say subject to availability at the time of booking - this is an assumption on your part. Even if it did violate the stated VIP benefit, the contracts that you and everyone else signed (myself included - I read them all), indicate that the program manager has the right to change the VIP program at any time, subject to their sole discretion. You may not like that, heck I may not like that, but I accept it given we all signed contracts that contain verbiage that directly states that the rules outlined in the member directory are binding for all owners.

Lastly - the core issue here, best estimate, is that Wyndham made a fairly significant change to their systems when they implemented Voyager - moving from a centralized reservation system where rooms were evidently assigned at the time of booking - to a reservation system that does not assign rooms at the time of booking - and they transferred room assignments to the local resorts - this was done when Voyager was implemented in mid 2017. Why they did this is really anyone's guess - but one thing is certain - the program manager has the right to manage the system however they see fit (within reason - provided the system meets the stated requirements set out in the founding trust documents), and specific to the VIP benefit in scope - best of luck if you want to challenge them on legal grounds given the contracts you and everyone else signed long ago. The best we can do is to appeal to Wyndham's "better angels" in hopes of trying to find a compromise solution that would bring back this capability in some form or fashion - and this is what I will try to do on behalf of TUGGERs here and owners at large.

Thank you for your explanation. I only wish that your professionalism was the rule rather than the exception on this forum.

 

[HitchHiker71]

@keno999, @HitchHiker71 - one-night stays are my favorite feature these days
of my much smaller Worldmark ownership. That combined with Bonus Time
(last minute stays for cash instead of credits) is awesome for impromptu driving
trips, especially in the West.

If Worldmark can reinstate one-nighters after the pandemic, surely Wyndham can.

Sigh - and I’ll try to remember to keep requesting this with website feedback.

I do miss the single night stays when we're on longer road trips. For example, we used to swing by Williamsburg for an overnight on our way down to Myrtle Beach every year, leveraging a single night stay when available at one of the three Wyndham resorts. Now we're using our WR points to do so - and generally we stop off after crossing over the bay bridge tunnel instead of Williamsburg. Hotels are obviously not the same as the condo-style timeshare units - but at least it's only one night and we're up early and leaving for the next leg of our roadtrip.

 

[schreff]

I feel like you are talking about 2 different things.

'DO NOT MOVE' was at one time a memo put on a reservation when it was booked (or any time prior to checkin). Since prior to May, 2017, all rooms were (unbeknownst to many) assigned room numbers at the time of booking. The VC's could see that room number - if it was a room you wanted, they could place the 'DO NOT MOVE' memo on the reservation. Many resorts would honor that designation. They did not have to. Or there might be a maintenance issue in the room. Things like that. No guarantees, but a very good chance your request would be honored.

Not moving rooms if you have multiple consecutive reservations is also something very common - and I believe extended to all. And, yes, even today, that can be called 'do not move' or sometimes the resort will call it a 'stay over' (always amuses me, sounds like we're all having a big sleepover). Anyways - 2 different things in my mind. As far as supporting the original 'DO NOT MOVE', I just don't think the Voyager and Holiday systems can support that the way pre-Voyager did. So, yes, gone with the wind so to speak as of May 2017. Our world changed May 18, 2017, that's for sure. Pre-voyager the system was architected around weekly reservations, that checked in on Fri, Sat, or Sunday. This resulted in what we used to see as 'split reservations' and orphans. Terms we don't see anymore - because with Voyager, they don't apply. (Once can argue orphans still happen, but let's not). Because Wyndham was (is) trying to be more flexible with any day checkins, any length of stay, the system today is architectured differently).

I don't get the impression that corporate Wyndham has anything to do today with how rooms are assigned. Other than the capability to enter a 'special request' when you are booking (with VIP developer points) - the actual room assignment is in the hands of the resorts. You will be hard pressed to get a room number in advance (maybe impossible - the resort staff is well trained not to promise or inform you of anything that would cause you to think differently - until you check in and have your key (and room number) in your hot little hand). Depending on the resort, I call in advance and request what I want. You are absolutely right, if you get there late, you get the bottom of the barrel. We try really hard not to get there late, but sometimes we can't avoid it. I have to say, I would hate to be the staff at the resorts - all day long they listen to people complain if they didn't get that lakeview or ocean front room. And if those complainers are there before you - the resort staff may move them to your more desirable room. I don't like that - but it's reality. One of our most recent stays at Bonnet Creek, we had a parking lot view in Tower 1. We didn't get in until 11pm. Being VIP Founders and owners at Bonnet Creek didn't help us. We moved to Ocean Walk - made sure to get there before 2pm - got an ocean front corner overlooking the bandshell. I doubt that room would have been there for us at 11pm.

Perhaps the most effective thing to do is email Michael Brown? State it's a benefit we'd appreciate Wyndham standing behind. Could they reinforce/remind the resorts that the room requests are a promised VIP benefit and every effort to meet our requests should be made? But I do think it's important to understand why it doesn't work the way it used to. If there is a particular room you want, I suggest requesting it or a similar room. I might say - we'd like room 123, please assign it or a similar ocean front view (for example). Or I might just say any ocean front. Or I might say, at Ocean Walk we need floor 8 or below for easy access for someone who has mobility challenges (so we want to try to park and walk to our room as easily as possible).

Any valid explanation would need to come from Wyndham, no? And thus, again, I suggest emailing Michael Brown. Determining availability at the time of booking is likely no longer even a possibility. Availability at the time of check-in will then depend on how committed Wyndham is to hold a room for the VIPs - they could - but do they? I suggest to some extent they do - and demanding, if you will, that Wyndham make all reasonable attempts possible, is something we need to ask of Wyndham (not TUG).

Learn to ignore the people here that don't know what they are talking about. And be nice to @HitchHiker71 - he doesn't work for Wyndham, he's trying to help and has made some valuable connections that help us all. He's owned since 2018 so understand he needs good details on how things worked pre-Voyager if he's going to try to present anything to Wyndham on our behalf. I feel like this type issue is up to us oldies that could best communicate the loss of benefits directly to Michael Brown if we expect anything productive to come of all this.

Thank you for the complete explanation and suggestion. I will follow through with contacting Michael Brown after we are done snowboarding. Do you have an email or phone for him?
Also, your advice to ignore is very good but I am concerned with the amount of misinformation posted by many. How and if it affects those poor folks who are looking at spending their hard earned money to move up the VIP ladder like we did is unknown. But having the VIP benefits promised disappear is fact and most folks don't know this. Also, most folks don't know what is within the contract even if they read it. The best suggestion is to advise them to go over the contract in detail with their attorney before the recession period is up. We know that sales uses every lie to overcome objections on subject matter within the contract. This too is not right and if they do so (many are real estate licensed under their state law) they should pay for their misdeeds.
For example, I am or have never been a renter but think that those who purchased millions of points for the purpose of renting are being treated unfairly. I know contract law prevails but we have attended many owners updates in the past were Wyndham Sales had conducted so-called " education sessions " on how to pay for your Wyndham maintenance fees by buying properties not to use but to rent. I still have the book written by a top Wyndham salesman in Durango which comprehensively covered the rental subject.
Again thanks.

 

[troy12n]

Regarding 1 night stays... this IS a thing I wish Wyndham would bring back. It was very handy to be able to get a room for 1 night when making a trip somewhere. Like when travelling to New Orleans, one of the PCB/Destin resorts would be a good halfway point for me, or when traveling to DC or Pennsylvania, Lake Marion is a good stopping point about halfway, right off the interstate. Also Villa Rica or Atlanta would be about halfway for me between home and Branson... but I don't like the idea of having to waste 2 nights when staying just 1.

This was never a VIP-only benefit, and i have to imagine, not very many people even ever used 1 night stays, but I do wish they would bring it back. Maybe they can bring it back for JUST VIP's...

 

[Mongoose]

Thank you for your explanation. I only wish that your professionalism was the rule rather than the exception on this forum.

This a great resource with lots of different people with different personalities, experiences and perspectives. I have been a member for years and have found civil discourse to be the rule amongst the majority of participants.

 

[HitchHiker71]

This was never a VIP-only benefit, and i have to imagine, not very many people even ever used 1 night stays, but I do wish they would bring it back. Maybe they can bring it back for JUST VIP's...

That’s an interesting idea - bring one night stays back via the VIP program. Given VIPs generally own higher points allotments - it’s more likely VIP owners would make use of one night stays for stopovers on their way to other resorts for longer stays.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[90_Min_Sales_Pitch]

Our EOY Kona timeshare just closed 72 hours ago. I guess we didn't read the fine print, but assumed that a 231,000 point contract meant that this was the total number of points deposited EOY. I was pleasantly surprised to see 462,000 deposited! I immediately booked 7 nights at International Orlando, which is an upgrade in size and location over what we were planning. Even if I value this property at $200 per night, 2 years of maintenance fees are covered with this one stay, with 62% of our points left to go! The value of Wyndham supersedes the flaws, IMO.