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Anyone own a VW Diesel in the recall?

Passepartout

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It appears Volkswagen installed software that caused their diesels- some from 2009 to 2015- to run 'clean' during emissions testing, but run 'dirty' emitting up to 40 times the allowed amount of Nitrogen Oxide the rest of the time in day-to-day operation. Owners are urged to contact their dealers and (strongly) request a loaner car to use until their own is repaired. Some recalls have taken years to resolve. It isn't that the 500,000 cars ae dangerous to the drivers, but to the general public.

More here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/what-to-do-own-volkswagen-recalled_55fdcf38e4b00310edf754c4

Environmental Protection Agency brought suit against executives of the company, saying they knew of, and participated in the design of the software, and that they (EPA) will be seeking prison time for the executives of Volkswagen.

Jim
 

SMHarman

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Did they install this on the same car in Europe?

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bogey21

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Recall? Doesn't seem like a big deal at all to me. Cars run fine. It is just that the car's software is set to thwart the emissions test. If that is ok with you, do nothing. Even if the Government insists they fix what they did, all it will take is to run a simple software update. The big question in my mind is have other manufacturers done the same thing?

George
 

DaveNV

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Recall? Doesn't seem like a big deal at all to me. Cars run fine. It is just that the car's software is set to thwart the emissions test. If that is ok with you, do nothing. Even if the Government insists they fix what they did, all it will take is to run a simple software update. The big question in my mind is have other manufacturers done the same thing?

George

A close friend owns a Volkswagen. He posted this about the situation on his Facebook page:

"This is absolutely incredible. I own a 2010 Jetta diesel, which I bought in part because of a belief that, cradle to grave, it was more environmentally friendly than fully electric vehicles. Now I learn that for the past 64,000 miles I've been spewing up to 40x as much greenhouse gas emissions as I'd been promised. And not because of an oversight, because @VW consciously decided to cheat.
Tell me where to sign up for the Volkswagen class action lawsuit. And when are the executives that green lighted this insanity getting frog marched to jail?

My tangible losses- (1) resell market for my vehicle in the U.S. will be obliterated, costing me thousands at trade in, etc. (2) the recall fix will likely reduce my cars performance- torque, acceleration, etc. (3) possible impact on my sons asthma?"

I'm thinking he's more than a little angry about things.

Dave
 

SMHarman

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Recall? Doesn't seem like a big deal at all to me. Cars run fine. It is just that the car's software is set to thwart the emissions test. If that is ok with you, do nothing. Even if the Government insists they fix what they did, all it will take is to run a simple software update. The big question in my mind is have other manufacturers done the same thing?

George
Big diesel had. Cat, Cummings etc.

http://articles.latimes.com/1998/oct/23/news/mn-35220

One wonders if VW saw this settlement and decided that was a fair cost of doing business risk.

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bogey21

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My tangible losses- (1) resell market for my vehicle in the U.S. will be obliterated, costing me thousands at trade in, etc. (2) the recall fix will likely reduce my cars performance- torque, acceleration, etc. (3) possible impact on my sons asthma?"

I agree that decline in resale value is a legitimate issue. If I am right that the software only modified things during emissions tests, the car's regular performance, etc. will not be impacted.

George
 

visor

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I agree that decline in resale value is a legitimate issue. If I am right that the software only modified things during emissions tests, the car's regular performance, etc. will not be impacted.

George
But his concern #2 is still valid. Very likely the recall fix software will negatively impact the performance by putting it into "clean" mode permanently.
 

SMHarman

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I agree that decline in resale value is a legitimate issue. If I am right that the software only modified things during emissions tests, the car's regular performance, etc. will not be impacted.

George
It will increase the back pressure on the exhaust system increasing the power needed to turn the engine and as engine power output is fixed reducing power at the wheel.

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Passepartout

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Did they install this on the same car in Europe?

From an abundance of ignorance, but speculation, I'd guess that unless certain jurisdictions have especially strict emissions rules and associated testing, the engines are tuned for performance, not low emissions. Hence it's unlikely that the same emissions software is installed there.
 

SMHarman

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I'm thinking the same. California diesel requirements are tough. Then only requiring them on Cars not trucks makes it look like regulatory arbitrage; after all the US manufacturers still can't make a decent diesel.

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Passepartout

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The point here is that executives perpetrated fraud by encouraging engineers to come up with and install the software that 'knew' when the engine was being tested and set parameters that 'cleaned up' the emissions, then returned it to 'running' mode during day-to-day use, knowing full well that it was spewing 40X allowable emissions.

Apparently communications have been discovered showing the links between management and engineering. EPA has said that rather than simply asking for a big fine, that would just be paid from stockholders' funds, they want the executives to spend jail time.

All of us were potentially harmed by their actions. People with asthma, compromised pulmonary systems, the elderly and very young in particular. These vehicles were sold as 'Clean Diesel', low emission, safe-for-the-environment, while they left a trail of high nitrous oxide wherever they went- and continue to go until they are repaired or parked.

Jim
 

SMHarman

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^ OK. That makes sense if the evidence exists. My initial thought was this tech is on all models globally and operates like this globally so air is cleaner at stationary. E.g. Traffic lights.

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^ OK. That makes sense if the evidence exists. My initial thought was this tech is on all models globally and operates like this globally so air is cleaner at stationary. E.g. Traffic lights.

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No, somehow the engine management software is able to detect if it's under emission testing conditions and switches to clean mode for testing, which you should be aware that is not only at idle but under acceleration and constant speed conditions in a simulated test loop.

Anyone know how it knows it's under emission testing? My guess somehow the tailpipe can detect the testing hose.

emission-certification-standard2.jpg
 
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SMHarman

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Anyone know how it knows it's under emission testing? My guess somehow the tailpipe can detect the testing hose.

Combination of wheel rotation and handblrake/ ebrake sensors and gear selected.

If engine revs and wheel not turning or only driven wheel turning then engage.

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Combination of wheel rotation and handblrake/ ebrake sensors and gear selected.

If engine revs and wheel not turning or only driven wheel turning then engage.

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk

Actually the driven wheels are turning on the rollers (both axles if AWD) because the test is supposed to be under engine loaded conditions. The transmission is not in neutral nor is handbrake on.

So my guess, the steering wheel if detected to be inactive would turn on the clean mode.
 
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SMHarman

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Actually the driven wheels are turning on the rollers (both axles if AWD) because the test is supposed to be under engine loaded conditions. The transmission is not in neutral nor is handbrake on.

So my guess, the steering wheel if detected to be inactive would turn on the clean mode.
I don't think any of these vehicles are awd. So if front wheels turn and rear wheels don't then test conditions.

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I don't think any of these vehicles are awd. So if front wheels turn and rear wheels don't then test conditions.

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Perhaps, but A3 has AWD.
 

Passepartout

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More speculation here: How about it simply detects if the engine diagnostic plug-in is hooked up, it triggers 'clean' mode? That would be easier and make more sense than having sensors for something shoved up the tail pipe and detecting wheel rotation.
 

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More speculation here: How about it simply detects if the engine diagnostic plug-in is hooked up, it triggers 'clean' mode? That would be easier and make more sense than having sensors for something shoved up the tail pipe and detecting wheel rotation.
Perhaps, but I'd think steering wheel movement sensor would be enough.
 

SMHarman

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More speculation here: How about it simply detects if the engine diagnostic plug-in is hooked up, it triggers 'clean' mode? That would be easier and make more sense than having sensors for something shoved up the tail pipe and detecting wheel rotation.
Then when you plug the GPS or AllState widget in it would be on all the time. You highlight another input to the algorithm though.
Perhaps, but I'd think steering wheel movement sensor would be enough.
That requires another sensor that likely doesn't exist and for the tester to put the sensor in the tail pipe aaccurately to trigger the sensor and for a sensor to reliably work when blasted by exhaust and know something is inserted.

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SMHarman

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Perhaps, but A3 has AWD.
Did some research this AM. Audi did not sell an A3 Tdi Quattro. Actually, the urea tank is where the rear diff would go.

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Passepartout

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And in related news, VW stock drops 17%

Biggest stock price drop since 2008. More here: http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...r-admitting-diesel-emissions-cheat/ar-AAeySgj

And from the boss: The CEO said he was “deeply sorry” for breaking the public’s trust. VW has halted sales of the car models involved, which were a cornerstone of Winterkorn’s effort to catch up in the U.S. The violations, which affect nearly half a million vehicles, could result in as much as $18 billion (£12 billion) in fines. Criminal prosecution is also possible.
 

SmithOp

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More speculation here: How about it simply detects if the engine diagnostic plug-in is hooked up, it triggers 'clean' mode? That would be easier and make more sense than having sensors for something shoved up the tail pipe and detecting wheel rotation.


Bingo, much easier to detect when a test machine is connected to the OBD.


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visor

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Bingo, much easier to detect when a test machine is connected to the OBD.


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I guess where I am in Vancouver, Canada, our tests are more stringent and actually involve an exhaust sniffer and running the drive wheels on rollers through a set program. There is no OBD connection.

So if the affected models in Canada would have to pass, there has to be another way than just sensing the OBD connection.

That's why I suggested maybe sensing the steering wheel movement or lack of it.
 
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