Anyone else annoyed by this? [New hotel tax]

[tahoeJoe]

Not sure if it applies to timeshare weeks but.......

Maui to Impose New Hotel Tax Due to Influx of Tourists

The Hawaiian island of Maui is set to collect a hotel tax of 3% from tourists staying there with the help of a new law and amid an influx of visitors.

www.travelandleisure.com

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[DeniseM]

Nope [the tax does not bother me] - Hawaii is struggling and they have to do what they have to do.

*If this turns into a Mainlanders vs Hawaii thread it will be instantly closed.

 

[youppi]

Nope - Hawaii is struggling and they have to do what they have to do.

*If this turns into a Mainlanders vs Hawaii thread it will be instantly closed.

IMHO, in place of increasing tax, they should impose a minimum consecutive nights stay per island like 2 weeks for tourists (business trips, visiting family trips and Hawaiian citizens of other islands would be exempt of the minimum number of nights).
When you stay longer on an island, you have more time to visit and this helps reduce overcrowding on the road and at all popular places.
You can pass some days at the resorts to relax in place of driving everywhere everyday to see everything in a short period of time.

Also, they should remove all rentals in residential areas (Airbnb, ...) if it's not already done. It's not funny for residents to have a neighbour that change every day(s) or week(s).

 

[DeniseM]

Unlike Tuggers and timeshare owners, the vast majority of guests do not spend more than a week in Hawaii. If all those one-weekers spent two weeks it would INCREASE the total number of guests instead of decreasing it. Plus, there is no way of legislating a minimum stay.

 

[slip]

This is a pretty good article on length of stay.

https://www.to-hawaii.com/blog/hawaii-travel-trends/


From the article.

Now you may wonder how many days most visitors stay in Hawaii. According to this research, the average length of stay in Hawaii is 12.4 days around New Year’s Day, followed by 7.3 days in December and 4.8 days in mid-August. The most popular vacation length is exactly 7 days. Where do Hawaii travelers come from? Most are from the West Coast of the United States and Canada. The #1 place of origin is California (19.4 percent), followed by British Columbia (8.5 percent) and Washington (7.6 percent). Thirty-four percent of visitors to Hawaii arrive from international locations.

 

[NTP66]

IMHO, in place of increasing tax, they should impose a minimum consecutive nights stay per island like 2 weeks for tourists (business trips, visiting family trips and Hawaiian citizens of other islands would be exempt of the minimum number of nights).
When you stay longer on an island, you have more time to visit and this helps reduce overcrowding on the road and at all popular places.
You can pass some days at the resorts to relax in place of driving everywhere everyday to see everything in a short period of time.

Couldn't disagree more with this. While we generally always stay more than 10 days, I don't want somebody setting some arbitrary limit on how long I can and cannot stay.

Also, they should remove all rentals in residential areas (Airbnb, ...) if it's not already done. It's not funny for residents to have a neighbour that change every day(s) or week(s).

Now this is something I can get on board with.

 

[daventrina]

The current situations is intensified by at least few things:
Visitor levels are reaching normal while many services are operating at reduced capacity.

Many things are in short supply - it takes weeks to adjust to rapidly changing island population levels. (At Target the other day if you wanted cheese you could buy on of the 3 blocks of Velveta that were left and you could get sliced turkey or sliced turkey to go with it. We waited 2/1/2 weeks to get white paint base

There seems to be a huge increase in entitled disrespectful tourist. These people show up and gives all visitors a bad name.
Note the difference in identifying tourist and visitor - not a mistake and there is a story there ,,, If folks are interested I can share it...

 

[controller1]

Nope - Hawaii is struggling and they have to do what they have to do.

*If this turns into a Mainlanders vs Hawaii thread it will be instantly closed.

Does your answer "Nope" refer to the OPs statement of whether the new tax would apply to timeshares? Just trying to clarify.

 

[NTP66]

Note the difference in identifying tourist and visitor - not a mistake and there is a story there ,,, If folks are interested I can share it...

I'm intrigued. Go on...

 

[dioxide45]

Nope - Hawaii is struggling and they have to do what they have to do.

*If this turns into a Mainlanders vs Hawaii thread it will be instantly closed.

I didn't know that Mainlanders vs Hawaii was a violation of TUG BBS rules?

 

[TravelTime]

The 3% tax does not bother me. I doubt it will apply to timeshares since we pay our tax differently than hotels do.

 

[controller1]

The 3% tax does not bother me. I doubt it will apply to timeshares since we pay our tax differently than hotels do.

Actually we pay it the same way. This is a TAT and it is charged per night to the room's folio. It is paid by the hotel guest or timeshare occupant to the operator of the timeshare who then remits it to the State.

I read HB 862 and it appears it will apply equally to hotels and timeshares.

Additional reading if anyone is interested:

HB862 - https://legiscan.com/HI/text/HB862/2021

Tax Facts on the Transient Accommodations Tax (TAT) and how it applies to both hotels and timeshares - https://files.hawaii.gov/tax/legal/taxfacts/tf96-2.pdf

 

[1Kflyerguy]

Does your answer "Nope" refer to the OPs statement of whether the new tax would apply to timeshares? Just trying to clarify.

I understood Denise's statement to be in direct response to the OP's question in the subject line. She is not annoyed with the new tax...

Personally, I don't like the extra taxes, and am not sure they will make much of a difference on the influx of tourists due to the pandemic.. But i can understand the state approving the tax in response.

 

[controller1]

I understood Denise's statement to be in direct response to the OP's question in the subject line. She is not annoyed with the new tax...

Thanks.

Sometimes it is unclear . . . at least to me what people are responding to.

 

[dioxide45]

Actually we pay it the same way. This is a TAT and it is charged per night to the room's folio. It is paid by the hotel guest or timeshare occupant to the operator of the timeshare who then remits it to the State.

I read HB 862 and it appears it will apply equally to hotels and timeshares.

Additional reading if anyone is interested:

HB862 - https://legiscan.com/HI/text/HB862/2021

Tax Facts on the Transient Accommodations Tax (TAT) and how it applies to both hotels and timeshares - https://files.hawaii.gov/tax/legal/taxfacts/tf96-2.pdf

But doesn't TAT only apply to cash bookings made directly through the hotel company. So a booking made on Marriott.com for say Maui Ocean Club would be charged TAT based on the nightly cash rate. However, a timeshare stay (exchange, owner rental, exchange) would pay a different tax, TSO? This is calculated based on 50% of the nightly maintenance fee for the timeshare.

https://files.hawaii.gov/tax/legal/brochures/TAT_brochure.pdf

 

[TravelTime]

Actually we pay it the same way. This is a TAT and it is charged per night to the room's folio. It is paid by the hotel guest or timeshare occupant to the operator of the timeshare who then remits it to the State.

I read HB 862 and it appears it will apply equally to hotels and timeshares.

Additional reading if anyone is interested:

HB862 - https://legiscan.com/HI/text/HB862/2021

Tax Facts on the Transient Accommodations Tax (TAT) and how it applies to both hotels and timeshares - https://files.hawaii.gov/tax/legal/taxfacts/tf96-2.pdf

How will they know how much we paid to charge 3%? Some people pay “nothing” through an II exchange. But even for people who are using their resort, how will they know the maintenance fees at the hotel level?

 

[controller1]

But doesn't TAT only apply to cash bookings made directly through the hotel company. So a booking made on Marriott.com would be charged TAT. However, a timeshare stay (exchange, owner rental, exchange) would pay a different tax, TSO?

No. As an owner when I make a reservation via Vistana.com and stay at one of the Hawaii properties I am charged the TAT. For a 2-bedroom lockoff at WKORVN it is approximately $20+ per night.

 

[controller1]

How will they know how much we paid to charge 3%? Some people pay “nothing” through an II exchange. But even for people who are using their resort, how will they know the maintenance fees at the hotel level?

If you read what I posted you will see that on timeshares it is based primarily on Fair Market Value.

I believe the maintenance fee is disclosed to the state when the taxes are filed by the operator.

 

[TravelTime]

If you read what I posted you will see that on timeshares it is based primarily on Fair Market Value.

That will upset me because fair market value is at least double my maintenance fees. That seems unfair and defeats the purpose of having a timeshare.

 

[controller1]

That will upset me because fair market value is at least double my maintenance fees. That seems unfair and defeats the purpose of having a timeshare.

The 3% is only an addition to the 10.25% you are currently paying with each night's stay. Hawaii has been charging this tax for as long as I've owned and we purchased WKORVN pre-construction.

 

[NTP66]

am not sure they will make much of a difference on the influx of tourists due to the pandemic

There's a 0% chance that it does, especially when you can routinely fly from the west coast to Hawai'i for under $200.

 

[dioxide45]

T

That will upset me because fair market value is at least double my maintenance fees. That seems unfair and defeats the purpose of having a timeshare.

The TAT (TSO) is calculated as 10.25% of 50% of the nightly maintenance fee. Say you have a $2,100 maintenance fee for a Hawaii timeshare week. That is $300 a night MF. Then they divide that by 50%. So the TAT is 10.25% of $150. Now it will be 13.25% of $150. Pretty nigh increase in taxes. Almost 30%!

 

[controller1]

I just reviewed folios from 2019.

For WKORVN - in 2019 the TAT charged to the folio (shown as Own Occupancy-TXNS) for a 1-bedroom Premium was $9.67/night.
For WKORVN - in 2019 the TAT charged to the folio (shown as Own Occupancy-TXN2) for a 2-bedroom Lockoff was $19.34/night.

For Nanea - in 2019 the TAT charged to the folio (shown as TAT-TX2F) for a 2-bedroom Oceanfront was $21.43/night.

 

[rickandcindy23]

After our summer of lockdowns, people are wanting to travel. Every resort is packed, it's not just Hawaii resorts, and this is obviously because we have been locked down for so long, people are longing for a different experience from their houses, and summer is the time people travel anyway.

I don't mind the extra tax and will pay it to enjoy my time on the islands. I am just hoping that one day they will remove this tax, when things return to normal. But they won't because it will become extra revenue that they can use.

I have always said that Hawaii sales' tax is too low. It's ridiculously low. They should maybe have a way to increase that tax to visitors to the islands, so if you go out and eat a meal, show your residency or pay 12% sales' tax. They could also do a mandatory tip of 20% because I know that people from other countries do not tip since it's not standard practice in other countries. So that would help with the employment situation. They could also charge a housekeeping fee for exchangers (not that I am trying to get out of tipping) that goes directly to the housekeepers' insurance/wages increase. I would like to see all of those changes implemented. Taxes don't get at the heart of the issue as much as income for the residents does.

Sales' tax should be higher on everything at the tourist shops and activities. 4.5% is ridiculously low. We pay around 9% in Thornton, CO at our restaurants.

 

[controller1]

I don't mind the extra tax and will pay it to enjoy my time on the islands. I am just hoping that one day they will remove this tax, when things return to normal. But they won't because it will become extra revenue that they can use.

I highly doubt it would be removed. The state currently sends a portion of the TAT to the counties. HB862 removed that "rebate" to the counties and allows the counties to implement a 3% TAT on their own. Some counties have complained that the 3% will be less than they have previously received from the state.

I have always said that Hawaii sales' tax is too low. It's ridiculously low. They should maybe have a way to increase that tax to visitors to the islands, so if you go out and eat a meal, show your residency or pay 12% sales' tax.

That would probably be deemed unconstitutional.

U.S. Const. Art. IV § 2. The Privilege and Immunities Clause generally prohibits a state from imposing higher tax rates or taxes on nonresidents than it imposes on residents.