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Any Guess

CO skier

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Whats the thinking on the value of this; 1,000,000 points at Oceanside Pier,
Based on my comparison to what can be purchased and booked through WorldMark at Oceanside, CA, the value of this auction is a negative number that would become more and more negative the higher the bid price increases and the longer the contract is owned.
 

CO skier

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No me neither, . I own a Ford and a Honda, not a Lincoln and an Acura but lots of Lincolns and Acuras are sold every year... Someone sees value there,
A LOT of timeshares are sold at Developer prices. I guess the customers see some value there.
 

ronparise

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The auction I looked at sold for less than $4,000 -- $3,595.


Add in $199 closing and $299 transfer fee = $4,093. The buyer is paying $1,195 for 20k credits valued at either $1,745.40 (the current maintenance fees on 20k) or $1,600 (the $0.08/credit rental rate) -- a savings of $405 or $550. $4,093 - $405 = $3,688 actual purchase price. The other $727.25 is a prepayment of the Sept. - Jan. maintenance fees. The new owner will get the use of the credits associated with those maintenance fees, so it is no different than if they became an owner the moment the auction ended (which they did, it will just take a few months for the owner to gain access to the WorldMark system). All the "additional" costs did was save the new owner from having to rent-in 20k credits to book their 5 weeks at WorldMark Oceanside or wherever they want in the WorldMark system the moment the transfer is officially completed.

I know how it works
 

CO skier

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I know how it works
Of course. Did you click on the link for the details of the eBay auction, which is the intent of the link? Or did you just read the embedded and irrelevant TUG summary of the link in the post?
 

ronparise

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Of course. Did you click on the link for the details of the eBay auction, which is the intent of the link? Or did you just read the embedded and irrelevant TUG summary of the link in the post?
I didn’t have to click on the link. I was already following the bidding

as I’ve said I know the seller and I know how he works. Ind I’m trying to get an idea of todays market. It’s seems about 20 cents for a stripped contract. Then like with this offering add something for unused points for which mf has been paid. What I said in an earlier post is that the initial investment is more than it would.be if the last years points were not included, but the value is the same
 

rickandcindy23

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I don't know whether or not ARP is important in the summer there. It might be for oceanfront, etc. I've booked there, and availability was fine, but I was not looking during summer.

I can't value it; I'd just be guessing. I saw Bonnet Creek clear about $10/K all-in for 300K in an open auction as a reference point when I was looking earlier today. Bonnet benefits from better name recognition, and the smaller contract is easier to sell, but it has higher fees (about $6.60 before program fee). Do with that what you will.
Wow! Name recognition is definitely making that worth more.

I have some giveaway weeks at $6.94 per 1,000 in Arkansas, and I thought those fees were outrageous. Those include the program fee, so not as high as Bonnet Creek. But it is Bonnet Creek. ARP doesn't seem like it would be all that important for BC, but I never look that far out. I am more about within 60 days and the discounts, which have not been all that tough to get, if I watch a few times a day.
 

rickandcindy23

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Whats the thinking on the value of this; 1,000,000 points at Oceanside Pier, and is the stated mf ($5/1000) close

I would bet it will go for $10-15,000.

I recently bid on a property I could usually get for less than $300 with this year's use included. I bid $1,850 thinking no one would bid higher. It went for $1,875. Shocking. Now I am thinking I could make big bucks selling all of my units at that resort, if people are willing to pay that much. $1,500 each would allow me to buy stuff I really want to own.
 

ronparise

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I would bet it will go for $10-15,000.

I recently bid on a property I could usually get for less than $300 with this year's use included. I bid $1,850 thinking no one would bid higher. It went for $1,875. Shocking. Now I am thinking I could make big bucks selling all of my units at that resort, if people are willing to pay that much. $1,500 each would allow me to buy stuff I really want to own.
Well Cindy, it went for more than I was willing to pay and less than you thought it would

$7101
 

rickandcindy23

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Well Cindy, it went for more than I was willing to pay and less than you thought it would

$7101
Right! I just saw the end of the auction. It's not a bad deal for low MF's.

Wyndham's pretty much shot themselves in the foot for resale value, in my opinion. If a Sheraton Broadway Plantation was worthy of $1,875 in an auction, this one should have gone for a lot more. It's actually pretty valuable and for that reason, I don't really want to get rid of our Bali Hai points because even without discounts, the points are valuble to us. The founder's discount is incredible, when you can get something with it, which is most of the time.
 

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Well Cindy, it went for more than I was willing to pay and less than you thought it would

$7101
Well Cindy, it went for more than I was willing to pay and less than you thought it would

$7101
Winning bidder 51 feedback score. Notice the second bidder 1 feedback. I agree with other posters this seller has a stellar reputation and great feedback score and I am not saying seller did anything wrong but this is a typical shill bidder senerio running price up. I wouldn't be suprised if this is relisted. You would be suprised at how many auctions go to second chance offer when low feedback bidder wins.
 

ronparise

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Winning bidder 51 feedback score. Notice the second bidder 1 feedback. I agree with other posters this seller has a stellar reputation and great feedback score and I am not saying seller did anything wrong but this is a typical shill bidder senerio running price up. I wouldn't be suprised if this is relisted. You would be suprised at how many auctions go to second chance offer when low feedback bidder wins.

But in this case it was the high feedback bidder that won


interestingly if neither of these two bidders were bidding, I would have won
 

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I'm venturing to guess that i'm not the only one not shocked that Ron doesn't see shill bidding and unscrupulous sellers as unethical... keep defending him and the behavior.

Pretty much all of these listed in here were shill bid up. The comments that they are "reputable" sellers is just complete garbage. Reputable sellers don't need to shill bid their auctions up. And these auctions were clearly shill bid up. I have been watching ebay for months and even bid on a couple (for my own use...) but they always get shill bid up.

Which leads me to ask if anyone has an October use year contracts you are looking to sell with halfway reasonable MF, in the 200-350k points range, message me, I might buy one. I would like more points but don't want my use year messed with. Ebay isn't going to be a viable option because of the unscrupulous sellers shill bidding
 

comicbookman

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I'm venturing to guess that i'm not the only one not shocked that Ron doesn't see shill bidding and unscrupulous sellers as unethical... keep defending him and the behavior.

Pretty much all of these listed in here were shill bid up. The comments that they are "reputable" sellers is just complete garbage. Reputable sellers don't need to shill bid their auctions up. And these auctions were clearly shill bid up. I have been watching ebay for months and even bid on a couple (for my own use...) but they always get shill bid up.

Which leads me to ask if anyone has an October use year contracts you are looking to sell with halfway reasonable MF, in the 200-350k points range, message me, I might buy one. I would like more points but don't want my use year messed with. Ebay isn't going to be a viable option because of the unscrupulous sellers shill bidding
How do you get "Ron doesn't see shill bidding and unscrupulous sellers as unethical" from his comments on this thread?
 

troy12n

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Shills dont bother me. I will come to a price Im willing to pay, make my bid and forget it
That pretty much says it all... if he accepts shill bidding, he is accepting of unscrupulous sellers and unethical behavior... which is par for the course with this shrewd individual.
 

comicbookman

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That pretty much says it all... if he accepts shill bidding, he is accepting of unscrupulous sellers and unethical behavior... which is par for the course with this shrewd individual.
Maybe I missed it, but I don't think he said he accepts shill bidding. He said he knew the sellers methods previously, I took that to mean the seller was previously ethical. Also, nearly 1000 comments and you're not a member of TUG?
 

Roger830

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Because there wasn't shill bidding, the winner got a good deal. He could have done better with esnipe. I set mine at 3 seconds when I won my last contract. I watched the bidding countdown live and saw my bid go in at exactly 3 seconds before the close,
 

troy12n

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You guys can read the posts, don't play dumb. I literally quoted him. He says shills don't bother him. I don't know how more clearly he can be. This comment basically means he supports unscrupulous sellers bidding on their own auctions, driving up the costs for the "average joe"...

And great, a non-shill bidder may have won. But the winning bidder paid quite a bit more because the seller (shill bidder) bid it up... that doesn't bother you?

Some of you I think need your moral compasses reset. Or replaced.

But I digress... i'm just a guest. What do I know.
 

scootr5

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This comment basically means he supports unscrupulous sellers bidding on their own auctions, driving up the costs for the "average joe"...

Some of you I think need your moral compasses reset. Or replaced.
Your opinion stated as fact does not make it so, nor does your judgement of others reflect well on you (casting the first stone and all).
 

ronparise

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That pretty much says it all... if he accepts shill bidding, he is accepting of unscrupulous sellers and unethical behavior... which is par for the course with this shrewd individual.
If I wasnt clear,

I dont know if the seller relies on shill bids to sell his timeshares, I know the guy. and I like him and he treated me fairly but I was a seller, not a buyer. . , He sold some stuff for me, and he didnt rely on shills to get the price he got for me.

Regarding shill bidding; Im not saying its right, What Im saying is that EBay is like the Wild West. and inexperienced and naive buyers are likely to get hurt or taken advantage of. What Im saying is that shill bidding doesnt matter to me. I know what Im willing to pay, I make my bid and then I watch. I know that without shills I may have been able to pay less but I dont care. I got what I wanted for what I was willing to pay.

Folks that have been here as long as I have, may remember other threads where I took that "dont care" attitude. that so many seem to object to. Im no longer the young idealist that I once was. protesting the Viet Nam War and protesting for Civil Rights. I realized way back then, that chanting "LBJ, LBJ how many kids did you kill today: wasnt doing any good. I was going to be drafted. So I joined the National Guard. I could serve, but I wouldnt get shot at. Even back then I took the world as i found it and I did my best to make my way through it. I did that as I built my little vacation rental "business" and I did the same thing when Wyndham came to close me down.. I didnt try to change anything I adapted

So today we are talking about "bad" things on EBay. I dont care,,, Im not saying the bad things arent happening, Im saying Im not the guy to change it.. But I will adapt. Id rather pay a "buy it now price: or deal with minimums set by a seller. Auctions however are going to bring out the shills, I cant do anything about it, I want the product, so I deal with it with snipping service...... I dont care if I pay more than I might have

Sorry that offends you
 

ronparise

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And great, a non-shill bidder may have won. But the winning bidder paid quite a bit more because the seller (shill bidder) bid it up... that doesn't bother you?
So it bothers you...what are you doing about it?
How much EBay stock do you own, do you go to share holder meetings and talk about it there.. Thats where you could do some good not bitching about me on TUG
 

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So it bothers you...what are you doing about it?
I have complained to ebay about it, i've reported sellers.

Ebay doesn't, and wont do anything about it, because they make money on auction selling prices. They have a vested interest in all auctions ending with higher final sale prices. So no, nothing will ever be done about it.

I've further more pretty much swore off using ebay. Which again, doesn't matter to them. Because their always suckers I guess who will use it. I will continue to advocate to others that ebay is a steaming pile of dung.

The takeaway here is that Ron, and his ilk, are ok with people being ripped off, as long as it's not them. Point taken.
 

ronparise

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I have complained to ebay about it, i've reported sellers.

Ebay doesn't, and wont do anything about it, because they make money on auction selling prices. They have a vested interest in all auctions ending with higher final sale prices. So no, nothing will ever be done about it.

I've further more pretty much swore off using ebay. Which again, doesn't matter to them. Because their always suckers I guess who will use it. I will continue to advocate to others that ebay is a steaming pile of dung.

The takeaway here is that Ron, and his ilk, are ok with people being ripped off, as long as it's not them. Point taken.
I dont think anyone was ripped off, They wanted something and were willing to pay what they did for it

When Wyndham came after me they asked me how it was possible that I owned contracts the generated only x points annually but I had over 9x points in reservations. I explained that I started the year with an allocation of 3x points, then used the credit pool to "borrow" 6x points, I then made reservations with all 9x points. I then sold 2/3 of what I owned (now stripped of points) leaving the account as he saw it. When I gave him the additional information that Wyndham was the ultimate buyer. he was pissed and accused me of essentially what you are .... no ethics

My comeback to him was to say, I didnt take advantage of Wyndham when I sold them points from at the rate of $5/1000 points and If anyone took advantage of anyone, it was wyndham that took advantage of the poor guy that paid $150/1000 points for the same points that I had sold back to Wyndham to sell again for $150/1000.

If anyone was lacking ethics, it was Wyndham that sold. what was available on ebay for $7000. to some poor soul for $150000
and in the case of sellers that use shills to bid up the price, Its not buyers that are the victims because they paid more than they should have, The real victim is the guy that paid Wyndham $150000 originally

I used to describe the timeshare relief companies and guys like me that bought from them as nothing but mice picking up the crumbs dropped by wyndham as the picked the flesh from their customers

Dude,
if you want to go after anyone for illegal and exploitive sales practices You are looking in the wrong direction
 
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