And so it looks like it will finally come down to electing DC points

[dougp26364]

So after all the kicking and screaming I've done about the value (or lack thereof) with the DC, it's looking like 2013 will be the year I will need to elect points and search for value. Due to my wife's unexpected illness last year and a last minute cancellation and deposit into I.I of our vacation week, I either give up the possiblity of getting any value out of that lost week or convert one of our 2013 weeks to DC points, use some for 2013 and carry over the rest to 2014 for short stays or possible a full weeks vacation should we find something within the range we have left.

While I could be much happier with the DC, we joined for the cost savings we'd enjoy (multiple lock off units that we tend to exchange) and the flexibilty of points. I just didn't anticipate needing that flexibility so soon.

No, I'm still not happy about getting fewer points than it takes to reserve our home week but, I typically recognize the value of options and flexibility along with economics. The economics drew us in, the flexiblity, at least this one time, will pay an extra dividend.

This does toss one more iron on the fire as we'll need to decide where to reserve and what size of units we'll want to stay in. I'm finding myself planning ever further ahead, now thinking into 2014 instead of just thinking about 2013. It's almost like plotting strategy for a corporate takeover or military engagement. In order to get the most value from your ownership(s), I find you really have to be able to look ahead.

 

[mjm1]

I agree with you. I have found us thinking 2 years ahead rather than just the next year. Fortunately, both my wife and I are planners, so it is actually kind of nice for us. One thing we need to remember is to enjoy the next trip we are taking once we are on it. I had an interesting discussion this morning with someone who was surprised that we know where we will be next April. It was like a foreign concept to them. I love it.

 

[jimf41]

Doug,

I think you'll come to like using the DC point system. Especially with the number of points you get for your 3bdrm units.

I don't quite get why you think you have to plan as far out as 2014. For 2014 you don't have to borrow from the previous year until June 30th 2013. That's a long way off. If you want to go somewhere the first week in 2014 you can't book that until the first week in December 2012 or the first week in January 2013 depending on your status level. That's still a long way off.

My planning for 2012 was done by July 2011. I'll start with 2013 in February 2012 and I'll be done 12 months out from my last 2013 pick.

 

[dioxide45]

Noooo..... Another one lost to the dark side.....

 

[dougp26364]

Doug,

I think you'll come to like using the DC point system. Especially with the number of points you get for your 3bdrm units.

I don't quite get why you think you have to plan as far out as 2014. For 2014 you don't have to borrow from the previous year until June 30th 2013. That's a long way off. If you want to go somewhere the first week in 2014 you can't book that until the first week in December 2012 or the first week in January 2013 depending on your status level. That's still a long way off.

My planning for 2012 was done by July 2011. I'll start with 2013 in February 2012 and I'll be done 12 months out from my last 2013 pick.

The problem is, we own to many timeshares and, I have an extra week from a cancelation we hadn't planned on in 2011. That extra week is actually causing us a few problems and, I'm just unwilling to eat the cost of a lost week, so I'm juggeling to get the most value and it's taking me into doing a rough draft for '14. We pretty much have choosen our prefered locations for '13. Now it's up to me to figure out which weeks to use and how to use them to get where we want to go.

 

[dougp26364]

Noooo..... Another one lost to the dark side.....

It's become a necessity. I feel that we'll be able to use the points for short stays vs full weeks. I have to many options for full weeks at fly to destinations but limited choices for drive to destinations. Marriott has resorts in Colorado and Missouri that will work for drive to destinations that can be utilized for long weekend trips, thus, points are more flexible and the best way to accomplish our travel goals and efficienty use our ownerships.

Like I said, part of the reason for joining was flexability, even though the main reason was cost savings. I just didn't anticipate needing the flexablity so soon. I've always recognized that more options can be better than fewer options.

 

[davemy]

Why don't you rent your extra weeks out? Don't go to the Dark Side... lol

 

[dougp26364]

Why don't you rent your extra weeks out? Don't go to the Dark Side... lol

More work and trouble than I'm willing to put in. The last thing I need is to rent a week to someone who doesn't understand this isn't like a hotel. No last minute cancelations, no refunds et.....With my luck, I'd get the renter who thinks that they can cancel the day of arrival and that I should refund them 100% of their money.

 

[jimf41]

I don't know why you guys keep calling it the dark side. It looks pretty bright over here to me. I'm sort of in the same position as Doug. I've got a 2011 Plat 2bdrm OS at Ocean Pointe deposited with II and it can't seem to get me where I want to go. It expires in March 2013 so I'm going to probably have to settle for something soon. When I use it I'm done depositing with II.

 

[dougp26364]

I don't know why you guys keep calling it the dark side. It looks pretty bright over here to me. I'm sort of in the same position as Doug. I've got a 2011 Plat 2bdrm OS at Ocean Pointe deposited with II and it can't seem to get me where I want to go. It expires in March 2013 so I'm going to probably have to settle for something soon. When I use it I'm done depositing with II.

I have but one week left that we trade with Interval. Everything else is personal use or internal systems that can get us where we want to go. My opinion is that good internal systems that are easy to use are a much better option than deposit and hope. It's easier than Interval's "pick three different resorts" when you really only want one.

I think Marriott has some improvements to make and, I think they got selfish when they essentially re-seasoned existing resorts by requiring varying points to reserve. Still, it is what it is and learning how to manipulate the system to our advantage or fit our needs is what we have to do.

Every points based system has some form of cost for the flexiblity. Marriott choose to do it the way they've done it and of the systems we own, it is my least favorite. That doesn't mean ignoring it will help our vacation planning because I'm upset over one or two aspects. I still enjoy Marriott resorts and their locations.

There is no dark side. There is only options. Options are usually a good thing and I'm glad I have this option. Mostly, I'm glad Marriott has a few resorts within driving distance. This, for us, is a saving grace because we can take a few weekend trips. Once our cars are paid off, if we can catch an airfare deal, there are some other resorts I'd love to go to for a long weekend.

 

[dioxide45]

I don't know why you guys keep calling it the dark side.

There really isn't a "dark side', but we can't let a week go by without getting a jab in at the DC program, can we?

 

[jimf41]

There really isn't a "dark side', but we can't let a week go by without getting a jab in at the DC program, can we?

Do you promise not to jab Marriott more than once a week? I can live with that. Actually I'm getting used to it and to be honest some of the jabs, not all, are well deserved. Or should I say well earned?

 

[Mamianka]

We also are electing points for a while - and have figured out that we are going to be more than OK. We all know that despite the skim, you can trade time for square feet and amenities - with trading, you can stay 7+7 days, master and guest; with points, you can usually 5+5, both in masters. If you can choose your season, you can do even better. When I tallied it all up, I found that I had more vacation days, in all master suites, than if I had done trades. Now, folks have told me that I should not let my guest room at the Chateau for for anything less than a 1 Br, but we have not been emboldened to ask to that yet ("Excuse me, sir . . may I have more?"). This is all with us finagling points. The Boss even wants to trade our Chateau property for RPs one year - usually a rotten deal, but there are some places we want to go that do not have timeshares, only nice hotels. Since we are doing well on the other end - Ok by me - he'll learn. Two years of trading just our Grand Chateau lockoff for points (we leave the BPT alone - we go there every year) is giving us an extra 7 mights at BPT, 2 nights at the Custom House, 7 nights in Aruba, 5 nights in Williamsburg, and 7 mights in Park City Utah - all in 1 BR places, no guest rooms. We come out dead even - not one point left over. If anyone wants details, I can rustle them up, as far as time of year and points used. We are not trading MGC to someplace like Branson to get this done, as you can see - no offense to Branson owners, but that is not our style at all. Utah visit is to see an old friend - never been there before. That's the whole point, I guess . .

Oops - change that to 2 nights in Boston . . sorry.

 

[pedro47]

This is our problem. We already own points in Diamond International, The Club and two weeks @ Marriott's The Manor Club. Now it's looks like we much buy into the DC program to continue our vacation experience with Marriott. Is it fleasable to belong to two points clubs?

 

[dougp26364]

This is our problem. We already own points in Diamond International, The Club and a two bedroom villas @ Marriott The Manor Club. Now it's looks like we much buy into the DC program to continue our vacation experience with Marriott. Is it fleasable to belong to two points clubs?

I hope so, we belong to three, Marriott, DRI and HGVC.

Marriott has resorts in locations that DRI does not and, even when both have same resorts in the same destination, Marriott often has the better location.

 

[dougp26364]

We also are electing points for a while - and have figured out that we are going to be more than OK. We all know that despite the skim, you can trade time for square feet and amenities - with trading, you can stay 7+7 days, master and guest; with points, you can usually 5+5, both in masters. If you can choose your season, you can do even better. When I tallied it all up, I found that I had more vacation days, in all master suites, than if I had done trades. Now, folks have told me that I should not let my guest room at the Chateau for for anything less than a 1 Br, but we have not been emboldened to ask to that yet ("Excuse me, sir . . may I have more?"). This is all with us finagling points. The Boss even wants to trade our Chateau property for RPs one year - usually a rotten deal, but there are some places we want to go that do not have timeshares, only nice hotels. Since we are doing well on the other end - Ok by me - he'll learn. Two years of trading just our Grand Chateau lockoff for points (we leave the BPT alone - we go there every year) is giving us an extra 7 mights at BPT, 2 nights at the Custom House, 7 nights in Aruba, 5 nights in Williamsburg, and 7 mights in Park City Utah - all in 1 BR places, no guest rooms. We come out dead even - not one point left over. If anyone wants details, I can rustle them up, as far as time of year and points used. We are not trading MGC to someplace like Branson to get this done, as you can see - no offense to Branson owners, but that is not our style at all. Utah visit is to see an old friend - never been there before. That's the whole point, I guess . .

Oops - change that to 2 nights in Boston . . sorry.

We're definately not getting more time, just calling the location in Maui if things go as planned.

For two 3 bedroom lock-off (trading two years for points) we'll end up with:

7 nights 2 bedroom unit in Scottsdale in January
7 nights 1 bedroom OF villa in Maui in January
7 nights 1 bedroom villa Breckenridge in Sept.
3 nights 2 bedroom villa Branson in Oct.

With weeks I could likely pull off all of these exchanges except we'd be exchanging for 7 nights in Branson and still have a 2 bedroom in Maui but it would be a garden view.

The thing is, we own to many timeshares and I don't need that 4th week. I could probably stand to par this down a little more and select one destination that really takes a lot of pionts, like an Ocean front unit at Oceana Palms for January, then use either our HGVC or DRI options to go to Hawaii.

The thing is, points offers options and flexibilty. Normally I wouldn't need it so much but, stuff happens and, stuff happened.

 

[pefs65]

Doug:
I hope that you wife is ok and doing better.

 

[Mamianka]

The thing is, points offers options and flexibility. Normally I wouldn't need it so much but, stuff happens and, stuff happened.[/QUOTE]

I hear you about the *stuff*. We cancelled five vacations in less than 1 1/2 years, because of illnesses, surgeries, falls, more surgeries, rehab from surgery, then being injured IN rehab, and going for rehab for THAT . . and then a death of my Mom last month. We also landed in London on 7/7/05 (our wedding anniversary) withing 15 minutes of the terrorist bombings, and when our friends could not reach us (the Marriott Chancery Court was the center for the rescue services) they had their daughter, a Police dispatcher, put us on the missing persons list - she was convinced we had been in the Shuttle when the bomb went off (we decided to take a cab, not even knowing yet that there was anything amiss). Her husband is an MD, and was within yards of the bus explosion - unable to save a soul. Then we booked a vacation for New Orleans - just in time for the hurricane to hit. Cancelled - and Delta would not refund or flight, because although the city was under water, they *were* flying in planes with contractors - so technically, we could still go . . . yeah, sure.

This is why all of us here still love to travel - to see other places, and sometimes to just get away from the turmoil that comes with *home*, our own illnesses, and our responsibilities - just for a respite. I am grateful that we are well right now, vertical, reasonably under control, and leaving for Orlando in a week. Or course, our friends say that they are planning to alert the Red Cross of our impending arrival, since I am the Typhoid Mary of vacations, it seems. Could be worse. We were providing the classical music for a wedding at a lovely mansion, and the bride called to tell us that it was postponed for 6 months. She and her (then) future husband are FBI agents, he is a former Seal, and he was the victim of a drug-gang hit - while swimming, he was run down by a speedboat (on purpose) and was cut up, shot at, lost a hand. These scums did not count on him being a Seal - he got to shore, etc. Eventual wedding was beautiful - and all they wanted was to go someplace peaceful. The coming TRAVEL was keeping him and her focused. He also winked at me, and said that in a few weeks after his return, to read the a papers - sure enough, major arrest - 47 dealers in NY state.

We do not only like to travel - we NEED to go. This year, more than ever. I wish you a speedy return to normalcy in your life, and hope that you get to go to many more wonderful places - and that the STUFF stops.

 

[dioxide45]

Do you promise not to jab Marriott more than once a week? I can live with that. Actually I'm getting used to it and to be honest some of the jabs, not all, are well deserved. Or should I say well earned?

I make no promises, but I think you will find that I have been far less negative about the program lately. You see very few Marriott jabs from me.

However, the problem is that the system works well for a very small percentage of owners. That I think is evident in the fact that Marriott has only been able to sign up about 20% of all owners. If the program was much better, that probably could be a lot higher.

There are negatives of DC for many others. These owners make up the highest percentage of all owners. For the premier and premier plus owners, I think there is far more flexibility in the program. The single weeks owners probably don't see the fee savings to make DC worth while.

I can agree that the program works for some people, for others it is about the fee savings, and for others it doesn't work at all. I think the latter is the higher percentage of owners. I don't see anything wrong with people pointing out the negatives when it is deserved. It isn't always bashing just because it is negative.

 

[pedro47]

Doug:
I hope that you wife is ok and doing better.

Doug, I also pray that your spouse is doing better.

 

[m61376]

Doug- hope the next several years are full of enjoyable and HEALTHY travels!

And, you are right- stuff happens. We're kind of at the end of one of those miserable cycles ourselves and, while we only have 2 weeks to juggle, sometimes life does intervene and plans get cancelled. I do appreciate posts like yours and Greg's, since they are both tipping the scales towards us joining to preserve future flexibility, even though right now I see little value to using the DC itself except perhaps the potential of renting points from others.

I think that as we approach the next deadline of November 20th?? (I forget the exact date- is it the 20th?) we need to reassess the benefits despite the negatives, and get over the fact that, for many of us, the program as rolled out was a disappointment in many ways. It is what it is, and despite the skim, etc., there are ways to utilize the system to our benefit and, like most things in life, sometimes the added cost is worth the convenience.

 

[dougp26364]

One problem I keep coming up with over and over is that whatever combination of stays/points I try, I end up with xx25 points and the reservation I'm looking at requires xx75 points. I'm often just 50 points short. It's either that or I'm a few hundred points over.

If not for my complusive try-to-get-the-most-out-of-my-ownership style, giving up a hundred or two points probably wouldn't bother me. Unfortunately, this constant 50 points short routine is frustrating and causes me want to make sure I don't leave any points on the table.

 

[jimf41]

One problem I keep coming up with over and over is that whatever combination of stays/points I try, I end up with xx25 points and the reservation I'm looking at requires xx75 points. I'm often just 50 points short. It's either that or I'm a few hundred points over.

If not for my complusive try-to-get-the-most-out-of-my-ownership style, giving up a hundred or two points probably wouldn't bother me. Unfortunately, this constant 50 points short routine is frustrating and causes me want to make sure I don't leave any points on the table.

One of the first things you have to accept when trading for DC points is that you can't really flip-flop back and forth from one year to the next using points one year and weeks the next. The system is designed to lock you in or else you'll wind up giving up points, or falling short and having to borrow or rent them.

For 2012 I have 900 points left over. No problem, I'll just push them over to 2013 and they will get used first. Or I could use 800 of them for a 4 day stay at Customs House midweek in May and push over 100 points to 2013.

Greg T has put a lot of work into his borrow/rent website. The downfall of this method is that you can't roll those points over if you don't use them and you can't guarantee a reservation until after you get them. A bit too risky for me unless you work up a three way conference call with you, the seller and the VOA. Too much work IMO.

To do all this as I do you have to have a ton of points. More than one weeks worth. If you try to play this new game with only 4000-5000 points and you want to use weeks also I just don't see how it would be feasible.

Points don't work for everybody. I don't see them working for anybody who only wants to go half in half out. Drink the full glass of Koolaid or leave it on the table.

 

[dougp26364]

One of the first things you have to accept when trading for DC points is that you can't really flip-flop back and forth from one year to the next using points one year and weeks the next. The system is designed to lock you in or else you'll wind up giving up points, or falling short and having to borrow or rent them.

For 2012 I have 900 points left over. No problem, I'll just push them over to 2013 and they will get used first. Or I could use 800 of them for a 4 day stay at Customs House midweek in May and push over 100 points to 2013.

Greg T has put a lot of work into his borrow/rent website. The downfall of this method is that you can't roll those points over if you don't use them and you can't guarantee a reservation until after you get them. A bit too risky for me unless you work up a three way conference call with you, the seller and the VOA. Too much work IMO.

To do all this as I do you have to have a ton of points. More than one weeks worth. If you try to play this new game with only 4000-5000 points and you want to use weeks also I just don't see how it would be feasible.

Points don't work for everybody. I don't see them working for anybody who only wants to go half in half out. Drink the full glass of Koolaid or leave it on the table.

We own three points based systems. In each, it's tuff to use all those points 100%. DRI and HGVC are full blown points systems designed to be full blown points systems. They give you what it takes to get back what you own. With DRI I can use left over points to offset club dues or MF's. Not a great value but better than losing 100%. Since DRI and HGVC are full blown points systems, they're easier for me to manage the save, borrow and trade aspects of those programs. Marriott, as you've pointed out, not so much.

Marriott has designed there's simply to provide options IMHO. It would have been a better idea (again, IMHO) to just design it so that owners would want to exchange their weeks for points and then stick with points because they were getting the same value.

We'll end up using two years as points simply because we're overloaded. It's a shame it wasn't really designed well enough that I feel like going all in (drinking the full glass of Koolaid). That's what I was hoping for before they released this program.

I'll take the flexiblity. I understand I'll lose a little value but, it's better than potentially losing more value in the weeks system because we're a little to backed up and, it gives us the opportunity to get a week or two had more difficult to get exchanges plus, we can try to call the view.

I think I've narrowed it down to trying to get a January an ocean front Oceana Palms week and probably take a January Canyon Villa's week. The Canyon Villa's week could probably be had through traditional weeks. I believe the January Oceana Palms week would be considerably more difficult.

By 2014, we should have adaquate FF miles to for a return trip to Hawaii. I'll have to decide if we want to switch the Oceana Palms possiblity for Mauai with Marriott or, if we'll use our DRI option to go to Maui in May or, if we'll use our HGVC to go to either Oahu or the Big Island.

Sometimes I think we might have to many options but, it's better than not having options at all.