• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

An eBay seller just gave me a fake estoppel

JudyS

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,166
Reaction score
211
Points
448
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
I recently bid on an eBay auction for a red week in Branson. I asked for the estoppel, and it said the week was red. But when I called the resort and gave them the contract number from the estoppel, they said: 1) the week was way off-season (floats weeks 1-10), not red at all, and 2) the "estoppel" I had was not from them. The signature on the form did not belong to any employee from the resort, and the form should have been on resort letterhead, which it was not.

Apparently, the "estoppel" was just a form the eBay seller made up, signed by someone who worked for him. I don't know if the seller deliberately misstated the season, or if that was a mistake.

I'd rather not say who the seller was, because, um, he seems to have a genuine red week at the resort (in addition to the off-season week he tried to sell me) and I plan to buy it -- assuming the information the seller gives me matches what the resort says.

If I'm not willing to say who the seller is, then why am I posting this? To encourage Tuggers to check with the resort rather than relying on the estoppel the seller provides, which may or may not be genuine.

Now, admittedly, checking with the resort isn't always easy. I recently looked into buying at a different timeshare, and the resort wouldn't give me any information because I didn't have the owner's name. (The owner's name had been blacked out on the estoppel.) However, even if the resort won't give any information, there are still ways a buyer can check out some of the data. You could post here on TUG and ask what the estoppel from that resort should look like, and whose signature (if anyone's) should be on it. Another Tugger may have recently purchased at that resort, and be willing to email you a copy of an estoppel so you can see what one looks lie.

The bottom line is that when buying a timeshare off eBay, remember -- buyer beware!
 

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,093
Reaction score
7,677
Points
1,099
Location
Florida
wow, if the guy made up his own estoppel letter...Id certainly want to know his ebay seller id.

thats about as low as it gets
 

vacationtime1

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
5,159
Reaction score
2,750
Points
649
Location
San Francisco
Resorts Owned
WKORV-OF (Maui)
WKV x2 (Scottsdale)
I have also received a fake estoppel from an eBay seller. It was in 2011; the seller was "Great Timeshare Bargains". I was buying a Starwood unit and was familiar with Starwood's "Resale Information Sheet"; what GTB sent me did not look like the Starwood form. It came as an email attachment with the transmittal --
Robert here is the estoppel that the resort has done for us.
-- which did not seem true, based on the form. I forwarded the form to Starwood and was informed that it was not a copy of the form issued by SVO Management. I backed out of the deal.

Caveat emptor.
 
Last edited:

Xpat

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
272
Reaction score
69
Points
238
Resorts Owned
Marriott DSV II, Newport Coast, Canyon Villas, Grand Chateau, Phuket, Marbella, Playa Andaluza / HGVC Craigendarroch / Worldmark / Wyndham
I have also received a fake estoppel from an eBay seller. It was in 2011; the seller was "Great Timeshare Bargains". I was buying a Starwood unit and was familiar with Starwood's "Resale Information Sheet"; what GTB sent me did not look like the Starwood form. It came as an email attachment with the transmittal --
Robert here is the estoppel that the resort has done for us.
-- which did not seem true, based on the form. I forwarded the form to Starwood and was informed that it was not a copy of the form issued by SVO Management. I backed out of the deal.

Caveat emptor.

I've had the same experience with several ebay sellers - misrepresentation of a form as the official estoppel form from Wyndham, Marriott etc.
 

WinniWoman

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Messages
10,762
Reaction score
7,057
Points
749
Location
The Weirs, New Hampshire
Resorts Owned
Innseason Pollard Brook
Yeah- you have to questions everything. Mine- not acquired on EBAY- had the wrong maintenance fee listed. I knew it sounded too low for a two bedroom, so I certainly questioned it and I was correct- it was a maintenance fee for a 1 bedroom. Everything must be questioned.
 

GreenTea

TUG Member
Joined
May 31, 2014
Messages
724
Reaction score
10
Points
128
I would definitely not be hoping to buy a correct week from him. I'd be running.
 

gmarine

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,304
Reaction score
17
Points
423
I would not continue to have anything to do with this seller if he provided a fake document to me. Doing so is asking for trouble. I'd report it to Ebay and make sure to leave negative feedback along with reporting it to the resort. I'd also post the seller on Tug to let others know who to avoid.
 

1Kflyerguy

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
3,430
Reaction score
1,528
Points
399
Location
San Jose, Ca
Resorts Owned
HGVC Kings Land, Elara, and Marriott Destination Club Points
I would definitely not be hoping to buy a correct week from him. I'd be running.

Agreed, not sure I would buy anything from someone that provided fake documents...

But as the OP said, definitely check everything over...
 

bogey21

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
9,455
Reaction score
4,662
Points
649
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
Over the years I have probably bought 30 - 40 different Weeks. Never asked for (or received) an estoppel. I won't say I think they are worthless but on a more positive note I will say I have always done my due diligence on my own. And yes, I have never had a problem being delivered something other than I thought I was buying.

George
 

PamMo

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
5,197
Reaction score
3,024
Points
648
Location
Missouri
Fake estoppels were very common with the Redweek4Less/VP Title group. Redweek4Less stopped selling under that seller ID on eBay last year, but opened up several accounts in November under new names. They listed really great weeks on eBay, but buyers were extremely lucky to get them transferred without major problems.

I've come to expect some errors in eBay listings, but a fake estoppel is not an error. It is intentional deception.
 
Last edited:

JudyS

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,166
Reaction score
211
Points
448
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Thanks for all the replies -- I have not been posting much here because I've been preoccupied with health problems. (I am doing better, at the moment.)

The seller in question was Benjamintimeshares. What ended up happening was that he offered me another week, same resort, that was in fact a red season week. Then, about two months after we started the second transaction, he said the week was no longer available and canceled the sale.

I actually think this seller may just be incompetent and the estoppel problem was unintentional. I say this because I also had another transaction with him going on at the same time, at a different resort. That sale not only closed with no problems, but when it closed I found out the 2015 week was available for my use, even though the ad said usage started in 2016. So, I got usage of the 2015 week without having to pay the 2015 MF.

However, even with the free 2015 usage, dealing with this seller was such a hassle that I won't buy from him again.
 

theo

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
9,032
Reaction score
2,268
Points
648
Location
New England Coast
<snip> I actually think this seller may just be incompetent and the estoppel problem was unintentional.

There is a saying...."Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity alone." This genius eBay reseller may not even know what a proper estoppel is in the first place, or where it is supposed to originate --- and just prepared his own half-baked product. At least s/he did not misrepresent it as having actually originated from the resort itself, at least if I understand your post correctly.

There may be deliberately deceptive timeshare resellers on eBay, but I tend to think there is probably just a lot more outright incompetence than deliberate dishonesty.
Regardless of that speculation, I personally do not (and will not) ever engage in timeshare transactions on eBay. In any event (and regardless of advertising venue), timeshare buyers (whether on eBay or elsewhere) should always independently verify every single claim, statement and detail made (or omitted) by any seller.

A former partner had a framed saying on the wall of an office we once shared. It read:
"In God We Trust --- all others we investigate."
 
Last edited:

vacationtime1

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
5,159
Reaction score
2,750
Points
649
Location
San Francisco
Resorts Owned
WKORV-OF (Maui)
WKV x2 (Scottsdale)
There is a saying...."Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity alone."
While there may indeed be deliberately deceptive sellers on eBay, I tend to think there is simply a lot more incompetence than outright dishonesty.
Just the same, timeshare buyers (from eBay or elsewhere) should independently verify every single detail.

A former partner had a framed saying on the wall of an office we shared. It said:
"In God We Trust --- everyone else we investigate thoroughly." ;)

I agree that many eBay sellers make innocent mistakes, but a forged estoppel represented as having been prepared by the resort is not stupidity.
 

Jason245

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
1,920
Reaction score
171
Points
173
I agree that many eBay sellers make innocent mistakes, but a forged estoppel represented as having been prepared by the resort is not stupidity.
It is possible that the actual owner gave them bad info.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
 

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,093
Reaction score
7,677
Points
1,099
Location
Florida
an estoppel letter should be provided by the resort...not the owner.
 

DaveNV

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Messages
22,003
Reaction score
29,217
Points
1,348
Location
Mesquite, Nevada
Resorts Owned
Free Agent
Whenever I've asked for and received an estoppel, I used it to call the resort to confirm the details. A Seller deliberately providing a fake estoppel should logically expect a Buyer to do the same - so the fraud would be found out. Why provide a deliberate fraud? Makes no sense to me.

Dave
 

theo

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
9,032
Reaction score
2,268
Points
648
Location
New England Coast
I agree that many eBay sellers make innocent mistakes, but a forged estoppel represented as having been prepared by the resort is not stupidity.

A minor point perhaps, but I did not previously (and still do not now) actually read the OP post as stating that the half-baked, substitute estoppel was "forged" ("forged" as in overtly and falsely representing the resort as being the point of origin). As speculated, the genius reseller may not actually have known what a proper estoppel is in the first place, nor where it is supposed to originate, nor who is supposed to and authorized to sign it --- so then simply prepared his / her own. :shrug:

On the other hand, the phrase "knew or should have known" comes immediately to mind and I would studiously avoid this reseller in the future. :ponder:
 
Last edited:

JudyS

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,166
Reaction score
211
Points
448
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
I cannot locate the estoppel that was sent, but I don't think it specifically said it had been prepared by the resort. I do know that the resort told me all of their estopples should be on their letterhead, and the one the eBay seller sent me wasn't on resort letterhead.
 

bogey21

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
9,455
Reaction score
4,662
Points
649
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
Whenever I've asked for and received an estoppel, I used it to call the resort to confirm the details.

Why bother with the estoppel? As I said in a prior post I have never requested an estoppel but rather just did my own due diligence right from the get go. 30 or 40 purchases over the years and never burned.

George
 

DaveNV

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Messages
22,003
Reaction score
29,217
Points
1,348
Location
Mesquite, Nevada
Resorts Owned
Free Agent
Why bother with the estoppel? As I said in a prior post I have never requested an estoppel but rather just did my own due diligence right from the get go. 30 or 40 purchases over the years and never burned.

George

That certainly can work, too. It may also depend on where you're buying from, and how the deal is being handled. For me, an estoppel at least gives me something in writing to work from. It's easy for a reseller (especially on eBay) to claim an error was a listing typo. If they send me a (presumed) legit estoppel, I can more easily call the resort and find out the scoop on things. Some resellers are more forthcoming than others. And some I've dealt with are specifically dishonest. YMMV. :)

Dave
 
Top