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America’s 60-Year-Olds Are Staring at Financial Peril

WaikikiFirst

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I can't figure out where all the buyers are coming from
MN? perhaps many are moving from the West or East coast or some other higher-cost area? New homebuilders have a very good handle on these trends.
Others prob work in health-care, which pays better and better relative to the rest, or in govt, which always pays better and better, at least in this century. You got how many school superintendents making $600K around there?
 

WaikikiFirst

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problem is that many young people (obviously not all) want everything right now and expect it to be easy. Plus they are addicted to convenience, which is expensive, and love to play the victim
Say it aint so, Joe.

I daresay, outside of the hard-core tech world, the #1 idea for "innovation" in the USA over the last 10, 15, 20 yrs has been "convenience".
I daresay, the #1 undiscussed driver of inflation in the USA over the last 10, 15, 20 yrs may be "convenience".
 

joestein

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Say it aint so, Joe.

I daresay, outside of the hard-core tech world, the #1 idea for "innovation" in the USA over the last 10, 15, 20 yrs has been "convenience".
I daresay, the #1 undiscussed driver of inflation in the USA over the last 10, 15, 20 yrs may be "convenience".

Especially food delivery. I have never used grubhub, doordash or whatever. A few rare pizza deliveries when the weather is bad or I am super tired - but through the local pizza place - not using a app. I tip the guy $5 or 6 dollars - but dont pay a delivery fee.

I also dont bring in food often. Maybe once or twice a month max. I can drive to pick up as well.
 
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Sandy VDH

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I have between 5 and 7 years until I plan to retire. I think SS may not survive even though my potential usage. If your 30+ years away plan elsewhere.

If prices rose steadily it probably would be managable, but there are some escalating costs that far outstrip inflation, like my house insurance, that with no claims went up 60% last year, and I am in the middle of processing a claim from Hurricane Beryl, with roof and water damage. My fence is down, but at least it is a perimeter fence for our HOA so it is there responsibility and not mine, so that will save me a bit of hassle.

Just hoping that society doesn't deteriorate to an unbearable level before I get retired and live out my retirement LOL.
 

joestein

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I have between 5 and 7 years until I plan to retire. I think SS may not survive even though my potential usage. If your 30+ years away plan elsewhere.

If prices rose steadily it probably would be managable, but there are some escalating costs that far outstrip inflation, like my house insurance, that with no claims went up 60% last year, and I am in the middle of processing a claim from Hurricane Beryl, with roof and water damage. My fence is down, but at least it is a perimeter fence for our HOA so it is there responsibility and not mine, so that will save me a bit of hassle.

Just hoping that society doesn't deteriorate to an unbearable level before I get retired and live out my retirement LOL.
Those are fair worries. I believe that SS will be around as long as the gov't is in its present form. As much as we have problems in this country, we are still doing better than the rest of the world.
 

easyrider

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Yep -- but I'm 30+ years away from retirement...not sure we can count on any social security.

That's exactly what I thought in the late 70's. Being self employed most of our lives we paid as little as we could into SS and Medicare which was the entire 15%. SS was never something we really planned on for retirement but in a couple of years I will be collecting a decent SS check. Then the trick is to live long enough to get my contributions + interest back which seems like a really messed up game, imo. You pay in but if you die they get to keep it is the part I think is really messed up.

Bill
 

rapmarks

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One of the changes that puzzles me is the escalation in home size that is happening in my suburban area. There is still quite a bit of open land here, but the majority of homes going in are selling for well over $1 million. They are lovely homes, with indoor sport courts for kids, 4 or more bedrooms, massive master suites, etc. But I can't figure out where all the buyers are coming from. Even if you're trading up from another house, the mortgage payment, taxes, etc. has to be a high number. I suspect that means there's no money going into long term savings.
Agree, I recall the homes the doctors, bankers, business owners lived in when I was growing up: three bedroom ranch home with finished basements
 

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Resolve them we will. Sure. LMAO. Whenever I see a bumper-sticker praying for more govt spending, it is always one of you "we" driving or getting in or getting out. It is painful to see the specious slogans the younger gens actually believe. (Or DO they believe them? Or is it just "tax and wealth transfer"?)

Facts? "We will resolve them" is a fact? LMAO. Half of what you say are "facts", and those are poorly analyzed. The other half is just some strange soap-box rant. LOL.

When lenders are no longer willing to fund runaway national government spending and we hit the wall, we will be forced to resolve these issues. They will be resolved out of necessity. Read the book This Time Is Different, then come back to me and tell me we won’t be forced to resolve these issues. We have kicked the can down the road for decades now, and sooner or later we will have to face facts. The fact is that nothing I said was disputed, because you nor anyone else can dispute what I said. You can practice offense of course, but that’s just adding drama to an already difficult situation. Either dispute my facts or move on please, I have no desire to argue for the sake of arguing, we can simply agree to disagree and leave it at that.


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HitchHiker71

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Cars do not average $60K today. I am looking for a car for my daughters to share.... There are plenty of decent cars in the mid to upper 20s.

Subaru Impreza/Cross Trek
Hyundai Elantra/Kona

Just to name a few.

There are also some in the low to mid 20s. like the Chevy Trax - which is well received - but my kids didn't care for it.

Plus homes that were $75K in the 80s are generally not selling for $500K. Home inflation has averaged around 4% annually historically. Look at the highs in 2006 and look at now - prices have risen about 4% annually over that time. The problem is perception. Housing dropped in price significantly in 2008 and then stayed flat for a while and then rose fast.

I grew up in a 3 bedroom garden style Co-Op in Howard Beach, Queens (a VERY good part of NYC). Value of home fluctuated between $100K and $65K for most of 80s and 90s. Today that apartment is selling in $300 - $350K. Yet many of the stand alone houses sell for over $1 million.

The problem is that many young people (obviously not all) want everything right now and expect it to be easy. Plus they are addicted to convenience, which is expensive, and love to play the victim. All things that are not helping them to grow financially.

Not quite $60k but the average MSRP for a new vehicle is around $48k this year - which is still a staggering sum of money for a new vehicle when we consider the average income for a family is around $70-75k. Not to mention the staggering real estate prices that have completely priced out first time homebuyers.


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HitchHiker71

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Especially food delivery. I have never used grubhub, doordash or whatever. A few rare pizza deliveries when the weather is bad or I am super tired - but through the local pizza place - not using a app. I tip the guy $5 or 6 dollars - but dont pay a delivery fee.

I also dont bring in food often. Maybe once or twice a month max. I can drive to pick up as well.

Most of the local pizza places are also listed in the mobile food ordering apps - but those apps have overhead so you pay more typically. When we use online ordering - which isn’t very often - we will typically call it in or use the website for the restaurant in question - which is almost always cheaper than using GrubHub or DoorDash in my experience - same food just eliminating the middle man app.


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DrQ

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...You pay in but if you die they get to keep it is the part I think is really messed up.
They don't keep it, it is used to pay current recipients.
 

HitchHiker71

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That's exactly what I thought in the late 70's. Being self employed most of our lives we paid as little as we could into SS and Medicare which was the entire 15%. SS was never something we really planned on for retirement but in a couple of years I will be collecting a decent SS check. Then the trick is to live long enough to get my contributions + interest back which seems like a really messed up game, imo. You pay in but if you die they get to keep it is the part I think is really messed up.

Bill

Agreed- I’d much prefer personal retirement accounts similar to what Sununu proposed
Some 20 years ago now. Had we done that back in 2004 - we would have completed the transition as of four years ago and everyone would have permanent forced personal retirement accounts that don’t disappear upon your death, unlike the current system that uses taxes from current payers to fund current retirees. We made a really bad choice not moving to personal retirement accounts via social security when we had the chance to permanently fix the system.


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Ralph Sir Edward

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Agreed- I’d much prefer personal retirement accounts similar to what Sununu proposed
Some 20 years ago now. Had we done that back in 2004 - we would have completed the transition as of four years ago and everyone would have permanent forced personal retirement accounts that don’t disappear upon your death, unlike the current system that uses taxes from current payers to fund current retirees. We made a really bad choice not moving to personal retirement accounts via social security when we had the chance to permanently fix the system.


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We've had personal retirement "accounts" for many decades - they are called annuities. You can buy them at any age. No tax deduction. Either as single premium (pay the money in once) or as yearly bills. The inverse of life insurance, sold by the same companies.
 

mcdanielpj

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Not quite $60k but the average MSRP for a new vehicle is around $48k this year - which is still a staggering sum of money for a new vehicle when we consider the average income for a family is around $70-75k. Not to mention the staggering real estate prices that have completely priced out first time homebuyers.


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Cars do last a LOT longer nowadays. I still drive a 2007 Ford, bought new.
 

SmithOp

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I don't buy new cars, that's like buying developer TS!

I look for 3 yrs old, less than 30k miles. We have had good luck with Honda CRV, excellent reliability. We had a 2007 that I ran up to 160k miles, then traded it in for a 2015 which now has 85k and nothing wrong with it. In a few years I plan to look at the hybrid model, used of course.
 

easyrider

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They don't keep it, it is used to pay current recipients.

I probably should have said my heirs don't get to keep it which is what I would want to happen because it is or was mine after all, lol.

Bill
 

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Just hoping that society doesn't deteriorate to an unbearable level before I get retired and live out my retirement LOL.

It will get worse as workers realize whats going to happen. Why pay into a system which won't amount to beer money when a worker is allowed to draw from it?

For a snapshot of how bad this is going to be, google "US percentage have no retirement savings" and then just look through the various age groups. Couple that with the 30-odd states which have filial responsibility laws.
 

HitchHiker71

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We've had personal retirement "accounts" for many decades - they are called annuities. You can buy them at any age. No tax deduction. Either as single premium (pay the money in once) or as yearly bills. The inverse of life insurance, sold by the same companies.
What I mean is we need to convert SSI over to personally owned accounts - dedicated personal retirement accounts like what Sununu proposed. The fundamental basis of the structure of SSI is no longer viable for various reasons. When SSI was first created, there were 15 people paying in for each retiree - and the average lifespan was such that the average retiree only drew against SSI for a few years before passing away. Nowadays, we're at a 3:1 ratio and falling, and the average retiree draws against SSI for a decade or more, so it's no longer sustainable to use a system that uses taxes to fund current retirees. It's a wealth redistribution system at its core - it takes monies from those currently working, and pays it out to retirees. I'd much prefer a forced retirement system whereby at least a portion of the forced taxation is put into dedicated, willable, personal retirement accounts (that the owner could also contribute to pre-tax if so desired). Many other countries have moved to this type of retirement system over the past few decades - and by and large they are all much better off for having done so. It would take about 15 years to convert from the existing system over to the new system so as to preserve the existing SSI benefit for existing retirees - after which the entire system would be converted over to personal retirement accounts. Had we done what Sununu proposed (and granted it wasn't perfect - but what system is?) back in 2005 - we'd have been done the conversation in 2020. I've never understood the fearmongering associated with converting over to a true wealth building system for SSI that has been leveraged to prevent this type of conversion.
 
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HitchHiker71

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Cars do last a LOT longer nowadays. I still drive a 2007 Ford, bought new.
Yes, the average age of vehicles is up around 13 years now I think - it's been rising for the past 20 years as vehicles have become more reliable, coupled with the fact that new vehicles have become so expensive.
 

HitchHiker71

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I don't buy new cars, that's like buying developer TS!

I look for 3 yrs old, less than 30k miles. We have had good luck with Honda CRV, excellent reliability. We had a 2007 that I ran up to 160k miles, then traded it in for a 2015 which now has 85k and nothing wrong with it. In a few years I plan to look at the hybrid model, used of course.
We did the same with the last Honda Accord we purchased, a CPO 2017 model EX-L with 28k miles on it for $20k back in 2020. Three years later when we sold it and bought my wife's Tesla MY LR - I sold that same Honda Accord to Carvana for $19k with 66k miles on it - not bad - only paid $1k for three years of use.
 

joestein

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Most of the local pizza places are also listed in the mobile food ordering apps - but those apps have overhead so you pay more typically. When we use online ordering - which isn’t very often - we will typically call it in or use the website for the restaurant in question - which is almost always cheaper than using GrubHub or DoorDash in my experience - same food just eliminating the middle man app.


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Exactly what I do.
 

joestein

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We did the same with the last Honda Accord we purchased, a CPO 2017 model EX-L with 28k miles on it for $20k back in 2020. Three years later when we sold it and bought my wife's Tesla MY LR - I sold that same Honda Accord to Carvana for $19k with 66k miles on it - not bad - only paid $1k for three years of use.
So... I did the same thing recently with a 2020 Lexus ES350. However, I need to get my kids a new car, after one of them had an accident and totaled their old car (Thankfully no one is hurt). I just leased them a new car because I want all the modern safety features that were not in cars 3 or 4 years old (automatic braking to help avoid accidents in particular).

For my wife and I who are excellent drivers - this is not as much of a concern - so a used car is fine.
 

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I’m a big fan of the new cars with all the safety gizmos like lane keeping, adjustable cruise control, auto breaking, etc., especially as I've gotten older. I’m a good driver and have never been in an accident that was my fault (rear ended at a stop sign!), but I appreciate how these help keep me safer. I think they are well worth the investment in a new car.
 

stmartinfan

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One of the things I keep noticing is how old and tired most of the cashiers at my local supermarket are. I'm retired and shop in the morning on a week day, so that’s probably when they are scheduled to work. But when you’re 70+ standing for several hours and repetitively scanning belt loads of groceries has to be exhausting. It’s a reminder how many people that age have to work, and how thankful I am for my pension, good SS (I worked part time til 68) and diligent saving.
 
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