Allegiant Captain fired after ordering evacuation from smoking aircraft

[x3 skier]

Another example of why I'll never fly Allegiant.

https://gma.yahoo.com/ex-pilot-sues...acuation-132448481--abc-news-topstories.html#

"Allegiant Airlines Capt. Jason Kinzer was feeling tense.

It was June 8. With the smell of acrid smoke filling his cabin, he’d just made an emergency landing at Florida's St. Pete-Clearwater International Airport, where ground fire crews had informed him that his No. 1 engine was smoking. Despite cutting power to the engine, the smell hadn’t dissipated, Kinzer said, and he was worried about his 141 passengers.

An unidentified voice on his radio had advised him to hold off on evacuating the plane, then ceased transmission. But without knowing the source of the directive or what was going on with the jet, Kinzer was wary.

He knew an emergency evacuation could be risky. But a smoky plane can be risky, too.

“This is a tough corner to be backed in because you have very little information and you may have a very small amount of time to get it right. ... How long do you wait?” Kinzer said in an exclusive interview with ABC News’ David Kerley. “I felt the best decision was to get them to safety and get them away from an airplane that was smoking.”

So he popped the emergency slides and ordered an evac.

Six weeks later, he was fired."

Cheers

 

[Patri]

My friend was on that flight. She smelled the odor. She said it was terrifying. They jumped out the windows.

 

[tompalm]

Has to be more to the story. The company doesn't have grounds to fire him. He could fight it if he wanted too. But maybe at some point, he just didn't think it was worth working there any longer.

 

[DeniseM]

My friend was on that flight. She smelled the odor. She said it was terrifying. They jumped out the windows.

How do you jump out the window?

 

[Chrispee]

Has to be more to the story. The company doesn't have grounds to fire him. He could fight it if he wanted too. But maybe at some point, he just didn't think it was worth working there any longer.

He is fighting it according to the article, he is suing Allegiant. Juxtapose this situation with the recent Air Canada flight flight that the pilot diverted due to a problem with the cargo hold's heating system. The pilot made the decision to divert as there was a dog in the cargo hold, and that decision would have cost Air Canada tens of thousands of dollars. That pilot was not disciplined.

I can't imagine ever flying with an airline that fires a pilot over an evacuation in a "grey area" decision situation like smoke in the cabin.

 

[JudyS]

I thought airline pilots in the U.S. had the legal right to make safety decisions concerning their planes. Unless there is more to the story, I hope Allegiant not only loses the lawsuit, but is disciplined by the FAA as well.

 

[pedro47]

I thought airline pilots in the U.S. had the legal right to make safety decisions concerning their planes. Unless there is more to the story, I hope Allegiant not only loses the lawsuit, but is disciplined by the FAA as well.

There is more to this story much more.

 

[Patri]

How do you jump out the window?

I asked her the same thing. She said they were large, and when I saw a close up of the plane, I could see they were bigger than normal. I have since been in another plane that had the larger ones.

 

[silentg]

I just read that Allegent is halting its flights to Hawaii starting in August! I hadn't planned to fly them again. I flew on Alligent to Chattanooga and also to Branson, but had to go thru Sanford Airport. OIA is more convenient for us, but Alliegent wasn't flying from OIA at the time we went. Flights were uneventful, but since then I've heard they have had problems.
Silentg

 

[x3 skier]

I thought airline pilots in the U.S. had the legal right to make safety decisions concerning their planes. Unless there is more to the story, I hope Allegiant not only loses the lawsuit, but is disciplined by the FAA as well.

There's an FAA rule called Pilot in Command (PIC) and just like the Captain of a ship at sea, he or she is solely responsible for the aircraft and its safe operation in flight. Any direction or information from others can be considered advisory if the PIC feels following the instruction will endanger the safety of the aircraft, crew or passengers.

IMHO as a pilot, the Allegiant pilot acted correctly and is very likely to prevail in his lawsuit.

Cheers

 

[x3 skier]

I asked her the same thing. She said they were large, and when I saw a close up of the plane, I could see they were bigger than normal. I have since been in another plane that had the larger ones.

I seriously doubt it was a window. It probably was a window exit where the section of the aircraft with the window can be removed in an emergency. The windows in an airliner cannot be opened unless you dismantle them, except in the cockpit.

Cheers

 

[DeniseM]

I seriously doubt it was a window. It probably was a window exit where the section of the aircraft with the window can be removed in an emergency. The windows in an airliner cannot be opened unless you dismantle them, except in the cockpit.

Cheers

That's exactly what I was getting at.

 

[Ty1on]

There's an FAA rule called Pilot in Command (PIC) and just like the Captain of a ship at sea, he or she is solely responsible for the aircraft and its safe operation in flight. Any direction or information from others can be considered advisory if the PIC feels following the instruction will endanger the safety of the aircraft, crew or passengers.

IMHO as a pilot, the Allegiant pilot acted correctly and is very likely to prevail in his lawsuit.

Cheers

Given Allegiant's PR nightmare of late, I am plain shocked that they would want to go through a wrongful term suit over a captain that took an abundance of caution for the safety of his passengers and crew, not to mention the simple publicity of firing him for that.

 

[lgreenspan]

Allegiant's PR nightmare ???

Given Allegiant's PR nightmare of late, I am plain shocked that they would want to go through a wrongful term suit over a captain that took an abundance of caution for the safety of his passengers and crew, not to mention the simple publicity of firing him for that.

Please elaborate. I recently took an Allegiant flight fron Ohio to Florida and it was one of the best flights I ever took.

 

[Ty1on]

Please elaborate. I recently took an Allegiant flight fron Ohio to Florida and it was one of the best flights I ever took.

http://willallegiantbethere.org/

In fairness, I guess this incident actually happened in June, before some of their more publicized recent problems.

 

[Luanne]

Please elaborate. I recently took an Allegiant flight fron Ohio to Florida and it was one of the best flights I ever took.

One good flight doesn't make, or break, an airline. Years ago we took a flight from San Francisco to Maui on a charter. I honestly can't remember the name. Most pleasant flight we'd ever taken. Thought, sure we'll do this again. On the way home our flight never left Maui. The entire fleet was grounded by the FAA and that charter company never flew again.

 

[x3 skier]

Please elaborate. I recently took an Allegiant flight fron Ohio to Florida and it was one of the best flights I ever took.

From the article in the first post:

"Kinzer's lawsuit is just the latest in a series of public relations crises for the discount airline, which has been beset by issues since the summer.

A low-fuel emergency landing in Fargo and an aborted takeoff in Las Vegas drew increased scrutiny from the FAA. And an industry union said it had identified 65 instances of maintenance-related issues, including aborted takeoffs, diversions, and gate returns, in just seven months."

While the union may have their own ax to grind, that number of problems from FAA records speaks volumes.

The low fuel incident occurred while the cockpit crew were high level Allegiant Management, IIRC. FAA rules require you have enough fuel to get to your destination, fly to an alternate plus 45 minutes, not have just enough to run out on landing at your original destination.

Cheers

 

[x3 skier]

http://willallegiantbethere.org/

In fairness, I guess this incident actually happened in June, before some of their more publicized recent problems.

Thanks for the link. As if I didn't have enough reasons to avoid this outfit.

Cheers

 

[tompalm]

I seriously doubt it was a window. It probably was a window exit where the section of the aircraft with the window can be removed in an emergency. The windows in an airliner cannot be opened unless you dismantle them, except in the cockpit.

Cheers

Here is a little more info about that exit over the wing, there is a door that can be opened and thrown outside. That door has a window in it. Someone sitting in the emergency exit row has to agree to help with opening that door and leading the way out of the aircraft. After that, people slide down the wing flap that should be at 40 degrees (one of the things on the checklist for pilots to do during an evacuation is lowering the flaps full down to 40). The emergency exit row is usually reserved for non revs or company employees that are familiar with opening the door. However, if the aircraft sells out there is a chance you might sit in that row.

This can't be done on bigger aircraft because the wing is too high off the ground. So, you see it on 737 and I think 757s, plus smaller Airbuses.

 

[Patri]

Thanks for all the window news. I am sure my friend and her husband were not in the exit row. They did go down a slide. She just worded it wrong, or maybe truly thought it was only a window. Probably her impression when you are afraid.

 

[tompalm]

Thanks for the link. As if I didn't have enough reasons to avoid this outfit.

Cheers

Agree that it is a do not fly operation. I know a few pilots that went there after Aloha shutdown and they have nothing good to say about the company. It is a leader of Low Cost Carriers and will cut cost in every way. Especially with maintenance and all employees by paying the lowest cost in the industry. Also, they have poor work rules which cause discontent.

Someone told me they really like the low fares from Phoenix to Las Vegas and fly them all the time. If the flight is short and you have a good backup plan, maybe it is ok. Don't check bags, jump on and jump off and you will probably be fine. But a five hour flight over the ocean is a different story. People just don't want to risk that and the company tried to make it work for three years and failed. They will stop service in a few months. No surprise there. Just like GO Airlines. After a while, people realize the company is not good and just will not fly them to save a few bucks.

 

[tompalm]

Thanks for all the window news. I am sure my friend and her husband were not in the exit row. They did go down a slide. She just worded it wrong, or maybe truly thought it was only a window. Probably her impression when you are afraid.

Well, there are windows in all the doors. So, they probably saw a window where they went out.

 

[JudyS]

Here is a little more info about that exit over the wing, there is a door that can be opened and thrown outside. That door has a window in it. ...
This can't be done on bigger aircraft because the wing is too high off the ground. So, you see it on 737 and I think 757s, plus smaller Airbuses.

Pretty much every plane I've been on in the past decade has had these window exits. However, pretty much every plane I've been on in the past decade has been a 737 or 757!

When I've flown, it's usually ordinary passengers that sit in the exit rows. There are rules about who can sit there -- no disabled people, no children, and maybe other exclusions. (I'm disabled and I fully support these rules, by the way.)

 

[silentg]

Pretty much every plane I've been on in the past decade has had these window exits. However, pretty much every plane I've been on in the past decade has been a 737 or 757!

When I've flown, it's usually ordinary passengers that sit in the exit rows. There are rules about who can sit there -- no disabled people, no children, and maybe other exclusions. (I'm disabled and I fully support these rules, by the way.)

You have to be at least 15 years old, you are asked if in the event of emergency you are willing to help others, you are given special instruction from the flight crew. If you say you are not willing to help, they will direct you to another seat, if it is a full flight they will ask another passenger to volunteer to sit in exit row and you will move to their seat.
Silentg

 

[Talent312]

Agree that it is a do not fly operation. I know a few pilots that went there after Aloha shutdown and they have nothing good to say about the company. It is a leader of Low Cost Carriers and will cut cost in every way...

A LCC worse than Spirit? That sounds like it almost took some effort.
.