All Yes, ALL Owners at Some Resorts Will Be Enrolled in DX

[NiteMaire]

You may have seen my post discussing my recent purchase. I enrolled in DX, but I also wanted to have my unit in II. The II first rep I talked with said Diamond was not allowing my unit in II. I found this difficult to believe so I called Diamond. The Diamond rep stated they are not stopping me from using my unit in II. Then, she dropped a bombshell…

She told me that Sedona Summit will have all owners enrolled in DX next year. I told her I was a resale owner, and she acknowledged it. She said the Sedona Summit BOD voted to include ALL owners in DX. So, in addition to the standard increase, MFs will include an additional amount for DX membership (no amount stated). She said DRI wants all their properties to do this. Sedona Summit was the first to sign up. Since then, other resorts (none given and I didn’t ask) have agreed to do the same.

I don’t mind this since I planned on using DX. I just purchased 5 years. The rep said owners in my situation will be given a credit in DX that wiil be applied to future trades.

Oh, and my second call to II resulted in success (after a transfer to a 3rd rep)! The first 2 reps used the corporate resort code for Sedona. Now, I'm waiting for DRI to verify ownership so it can be added.

Update: SA2 is the correct II code for legacy week owners at Sedona Summit. Sedona Summit (SA2) has been added to "My Units". That was quick. It took less than 24 hours.

 

[cindyc]

This is very interesting information, thanks. I was wondering if you would please share the correct resort code for Sedona Summitt in case I, or other deeded week owners, want to add it to our II accounts.

Also, I wonder what deeded week owners can do to make sure we aren't charged multiple times for the membership if we own more than one week. When you say the BOD voted to join DX, do you mean the Sedona Summit BOD or the DRI BOD? I realize you might not necessarily know the answer to this question, but I am curious because I will write to the relevant body to make them aware of this potential issue. Like you, I already prepaid my DEx membership for 5 years.

 

[NiteMaire]

This is very interesting information, thanks. I was wondering if you would please share the correct resort code for Sedona Summitt in case I, or other deeded week owners, want to add it to our II accounts.

SA2. I've updated my post above.

Also, I wonder what deeded week owners can do to make sure we aren't charged multiple times for the membership if we own more than one week.

I wondered the same, but I don't know.

When you say the BOD voted to join DX, do you mean the Sedona Summit BOD or the DRI BOD? I realize you might not necessarily know the answer to this question, but I am curious because I will write to the relevant body to make them aware of this potential issue. Like you, I already prepaid my DEx membership for 5 years.

The rep said it was the Sedona Summit BOD (I'll update my original post). It may be best to write both.

 

[RLS50]

She said the Sedona Summit BOD voted to include ALL owners in DX. So, in addition to the standard increase, MFs will include an additional amount for DX membership (no amount stated). She said DRI wants all their properties to do this. Sedona Summit was the first to sign up. Since then, other resorts (none given and I didn’t ask) have agreed to do the same.

But doesn't Diamond control most of the Resort HOA Boards by having Diamond employees voted into most of the key positions on the respective Boards?

With that being the case I'm not sure it's really accurate for you to be told "the BOD voted" like somehow the decision reflected the opinion of the majority of owners?

And to be clear, I am not necessarily saying the decision was good or bad. Just saying that at many Diamond resorts it seems like pretty much Diamond is the BOD and the BOD is Diamond?

 

[NiteMaire]

But doesn't Diamond control most of the Resort HOA Boards by having Diamond employees voted into most of the key positions on the respective Boards?

With that being the case I'm not sure it's really accurate for you to be told "the BOD voted" like somehow the decision reflected the opinion of the majority of owners?

And to be clear, I am not necessarily saying the decision was good or bad. Just saying that at many Diamond resorts it seems like pretty much Diamond is the BOD and the BOD is Diamond?

I'm a new owner within Diamond, and don't know if Diamond employees occupy most/key positions on the board; however, I've heard that's the case with some (many?) DRI resorts. It's also the case for other resorts/systems. Regardless of board composition, it'll happen as long as it's permitted in the by-laws. The rep was quite nice, and simply stated the facts. She didn't suggest it reflected the opinion of the majority of owners; she simply relayed what the board approved. I would venture a guess that most owners were/are unaware. FWIW the rep admitted that DRI would like all resorts to participate since it financially benefits DRI.

 

[youppi]

I'm a new owner within Diamond, and don't know if Diamond employees occupy most/key positions on the board; however, I've heard that's the case with some (many?) DRI resorts. It's also the case for other resorts/systems. Regardless of board composition, it'll happen as long as it's permitted in the by-laws. The rep was quite nice, and simply stated the facts. She didn't suggest it reflected the opinion of the majority of owners; she simply relayed what the board approved. I would venture a guess that most owners were/are unaware. FWIW the rep admitted that DRI would like all resorts to participate since it financially benefits DRI.

Diamond control the board of US and HI Collection. Depending on how many weeks those collections own at each resorts then they control or not those resorts board.
Example, for Sedona Summit, the US Collection owns 180 of the 254 units and the Hawaii (HI) Collection owns 18 of the 254 units as per Dec 31, 2019 Financial reports. The California (CA) Collection owns also some Sedona units. So, Diamond vote for 198+ of the 254 units.

PS: HI and CA Collection own only in Sunset section at Sedona Summit because when I search at 13 months as HI Collection member, I see only availability in 1, 2 and 3 bdrm Sunset suite but when I search at 10 months, I see availability in all sections. At 13 months, HI Collection member see the inventory of the CA Collection because HI Collection owns some points in the CA Collection.

Financial reports show the Collection units owned in units and the Annual meeting presentation documents show the Collection units owned in weeks. If you divide the number of weeks of annual meeting presentation documents by 52, it doesn't give always the number of units of the financial reports but they are close.

From the 31 Dec, 2019 Financial Report of HI Collection

From the 25 Oct, 2019 Annual meeting of HI Collection

From the 31 Dec, 2019 Financial Report of US Collection

From the 29 Oct, 2019 Annual meeting of US Collection

 

[csalter2]

DEX is expensive. There’s no doubt about it. If you deposit a week into the exchange with DEX, you have little flexibility and the potential to lose points is great.

 

[NiteMaire]

[The rep] told me that Sedona Summit will have all owners enrolled in DX next year.

The rep said owners in my situation will be given a credit in DX that wiil be applied to future trades.

To follow-up on these 2 statements. Sedona Summit MFs now include DX membership, and I received a credit for future exchanges. Under "Destination Xchange Membership", it shows membership term as "10 years".

 

[DRIless]

Another way to milk more fees from us lowly owners.

It doesn't matter how many of what collection lalalalalala
DRI has the BODs at all their resorts packed with their people.

 

[callwill]

Im not a DRI owner but i think If one had bought simply to use at that specific resort without exchange i would be angry that i must now underwrite the exchange practices of others.

 

[Arusso]

You may have seen my post discussing my recent purchase. I enrolled in DX, but I also wanted to have my unit in II. The II first rep I talked with said Diamond was not allowing my unit in II. I found this difficult to believe so I called Diamond. The Diamond rep stated they are not stopping me from using my unit in II. Then, she dropped a bombshell…

She told me that Sedona Summit will have all owners enrolled in DX next year. I told her I was a resale owner, and she acknowledged it. She said the Sedona Summit BOD voted to include ALL owners in DX. So, in addition to the standard increase, MFs will include an additional amount for DX membership (no amount stated). She said DRI wants all their properties to do this. Sedona Summit was the first to sign up. Since then, other resorts (none given and I didn’t ask) have agreed to do the same.

I don’t mind this since I planned on using DX. I just purchased 5 years. The rep said owners in my situation will be given a credit in DX that wiil be applied to future trades.

Oh, and my second call to II resulted in success (after a transfer to a 3rd rep)! The first 2 reps used the corporate resort code for Sedona. Now, I'm waiting for DRI to verify ownership so it can be added.

Update: SA2 is the correct II code for legacy week owners at Sedona Summit. Sedona Summit (SA2) has been added to "My Units". That was quick. It took less than 24 hours.

The consequences of having the developer as the dominant decision maker is obvious. As is shown by fellow Tuggers, DR owns most of the units/intervals in their respective collections. Therefore, according to the HOA By-Laws, the majority membership of the BOD would be represented by DR's employees. The HOA also votes to contract management services. Here too, the DR management company is so contracted to provide services. It is important to recall that the HOA's By-laws were drafted during a different era in the history of TS. At that time units were deeded and therefore actually owned by individuals or entities. The "owners" had a majority, they owners had the majority seats. The business model is no longer the same as new sales are RTU via a contract not tied to a specific deed. To this add the number of "deed back" intervals branded developers

You may have seen my post discussing my recent purchase. I enrolled in DX, but I also wanted to have my unit in II. The II first rep I talked with said Diamond was not allowing my unit in II. I found this difficult to believe so I called Diamond. The Diamond rep stated they are not stopping me from using my unit in II. Then, she dropped a bombshell…

She told me that Sedona Summit will have all owners enrolled in DX next year. I told her I was a resale owner, and she acknowledged it. She said the Sedona Summit BOD voted to include ALL owners in DX. So, in addition to the standard increase, MFs will include an additional amount for DX membership (no amount stated). She said DRI wants all their properties to do this. Sedona Summit was the first to sign up. Since then, other resorts (none given and I didn’t ask) have agreed to do the same.

I don’t mind this since I planned on using DX. I just purchased 5 years. The rep said owners in my situation will be given a credit in DX that wiil be applied to future trades.

Oh, and my second call to II resulted in success (after a transfer to a 3rd rep)! The first 2 reps used the corporate resort code for Sedona. Now, I'm waiting for DRI to verify ownership so it can be added.

Update: SA2 is the correct II code for legacy week owners at Sedona Summit. Sedona Summit (SA2) has been added to "My Units". That was quick. It took less than 24 hours.

Not at all surprising. DR owns the intervals and deeds and therefore controls the HOAs according to the By-laws. These documents were conceived, drafted and enacted long ago during a different era when deeded ownership/intervals were used to determine the number of seats allocated to Directors. With the effect of "deed-back" programs along with new intervals sold as RTU (no longer deeded), the properties can never again be controlled by a decreasing number of actual "owners." My understanding is that there is a difference between owner and user. All owners are potential users at their home resort but users are not necessarily owners even though contracts refer to a particular resort. The bottom line is if you don't own it, you can't control it. Ultimately, what we are witnessing in the TS industry is that it has transformed, for legitimate reasons, into a vacation club variant to accommodate a newer generation of vacationer who wants nothing to do with a life-time commitment and owners who want to dispose of property they no longer desire.

 

[NiteMaire]

There's still a question outstanding. Since DX is included in the MF for traditional weeks, do multi-week owners at participating resorts pay multiple times for DX? Until now, owners paid one fee for DX and could deposit multiple traditional week intervals (similar to II where you pay one membership fee, but can deposit multiple resorts). @cindyc (or any other multi-week owner) as a multi-week owner at Sedona Summit, can you shed any light on being charged multiple times?

This is my first year being responsible for MF, and I don't have access to previous years' budgets so I don't know the increase in MF for my unit compared to last year; I realize not all of the increase would be attributable to DX membership. As I look at the budget, I don't see a specific line item for DX membership, so I presume it's included in the overall "Maintenance Fee Revenue". There is an "Other Operating Expense" for "Destination Xchange" listed as $253,953. According to the budget, there are 14,595 intervals. That equates to $17.40 per interval. Last year, DX 1 year membership was $69, and 5-year was $299. So a 5-year membership is just shy of $60. If DRI is charging $17.40/week, it could be okay for members who own 3 or less intervals. Then again, based on the budget, I'm unable to determine what they are charging. Being new to DRI, I don't understand how/if Collection weeks at SS affect the total interval number of 14,595 listed on the budget.

 

[youppi]

There's still a question outstanding. Since DX is included in the MF for traditional weeks, do multi-week owners at participating resorts pay multiple times for DX? Until now, owners paid one fee for DX and could deposit multiple traditional week intervals (similar to II where you pay one membership fee, but can deposit multiple resorts). @cindyc (or any other multi-week owner) as a multi-week owner at Sedona Summit, can you shed any light on being charged multiple times?

This is my first year being responsible for MF, and I don't have access to previous years' budgets so I don't know the increase in MF for my unit compared to last year; I realize not all of the increase would be attributable to DX membership. As I look at the budget, I don't see a specific line item for DX membership, so I presume it's included in the overall "Maintenance Fee Revenue". There is an "Other Operating Expense" for "Destination Xchange" listed as $253,953. According to the budget, there are 14,595 intervals. That equates to $17.40 per interval. Last year, DX 1 year membership was $69, and 5-year was $299. So a 5-year membership is just shy of $60. If DRI is charging $17.40/week, it could be okay for members who own 3 or less intervals. Then again, based on the budget, I'm unable to determine what they are charging. Being new to DRI, I don't understand how/if Collection weeks at SS affect the total interval number of 14,595 listed on the budget.

When you log to your DRI account, did you have access to sections like

• https://member.diamondresorts.com/Hoa/AnnualBilling
• https://member.diamondresorts.com/Hoa/BoardCommittee

I know that US and HI Collection members have those sections in their account where you get all historical documents since 2007 like the budget, MF, the audited financial of the Collection.
So, may be the Sedona Summit HOA section may have the equivalent info for Sedona Summit.

 

[NiteMaire]

@youppi thanks for the info.

Here's what I was able to find according to the BOD meeting minutes from August 2020:
Approval of the 2021 Operating and Reserve Budget: Director Markos asked that the record reflect the Board had participated in an extensive budget workshop reviewing the proposed 2021 budget and capital projects. Ms. Gale presented a program, Destination Xchange®, which would be a benefit to ensure that owners have the opportunity to use their vacation ownership. The Board deliberated the value and benefit of the program for the traditional owners and agreed to add it to the budget. The proposed budget includes a 3.4-3.5% maintenance fee increase depending on ownership as well as a transfer of $700,021 of audited operating surplus to the reserves account.

It still doesn't state how much of the change is for DX membership.

2BR Annual MF for last 5 years look like this:
2017: $1,017.39
2018: $890.66
2019: $890.66
2020: $895.69
2021: $926.55

I have mixed thoughts on the last 5 years. The $30.85 (3.4453885%) increase is in line with the 3.4-3.5% increase discussed at the meeting Clearly $926.55 is better than MF in 2017; however, the increase for 2021 is much greater than the MF changes between 2018-2020. Then again, I've come to expect 3%-5% MF increases each year for TS in general.

 

[youppi]

@youppi thanks for the info.

Here's what I was able to find according to the BOD meeting minutes from August 2020:
Approval of the 2021 Operating and Reserve Budget: Director Markos asked that the record reflect the Board had participated in an extensive budget workshop reviewing the proposed 2021 budget and capital projects. Ms. Gale presented a program, Destination Xchange®, which would be a benefit to ensure that owners have the opportunity to use their vacation ownership. The Board deliberated the value and benefit of the program for the traditional owners and agreed to add it to the budget. The proposed budget includes a 3.4-3.5% maintenance fee increase depending on ownership as well as a transfer of $700,021 of audited operating surplus to the reserves account.

It still doesn't state how much of the change is for DX membership.

2BR Annual MF for last 5 years look like this:
2017: $1,017.39
2018: $890.66
2019: $890.66
2020: $895.69
2021: $926.55

I have mixed thoughts on the last 5 years. The $30.85 (3.4453885%) increase is in line with the 3.4-3.5% increase discussed at the meeting Clearly $926.55 is better than MF in 2017; however, the increase for 2021 is much greater than the MF changes between 2018-2020. Then again, I've come to expect 3%-5% MF increases each year for TS in general.

The last 5 years is also totally different than the previous 10 years in both US and Hawaii (HI) Collections.
Since 2 years, the HI Collection MF is cheaper than the US Collection MF.

 

[karibkeith]

Message cancelled. Was trying to locate info before getting down in the messages where it shows where to go.

 

[Tigerjohn]

DR in Europe (points owners) stopped paying members Interval membership (once included in members management fees) on 31st December 2020 but stated members were still permitted to exchange with II subject to them paying their own membership fees. DR's own exchange system "Destination exchange (DEX) was rolled out in 2020/2021 for points members.
DR claim it is far simpler than Interval exchanges and exchanges less expensive and deposits can be placed in their tier exchange system for up to 5 years. (an extension of 3 years on Interval). Deposits in DEX can also be made beyond 31st October in a given year (late deposit fee applies). Exchanges the same as main Interval exchanges "Classic exchange" and once booked you cannot reclaim any exchange fee if cancelled points will only be reinstated on your account in full for cancellations greater than 90 (anything less and you have to purchase an expensive insurance product). They have late escapes at reduced cash bookings but I have not seen any of these in the system. The real complicated animal is the 5 year tier exchange system with points tiers ranging from 1 to 6 with point deposit values starting at 2000 points and increasing by 2000 points per tier up to 12000 points (tier 6). Now the member has to elect at the outset which tier he wishes to deposit his points into. Now DR have stated that all rooms in their exchange system are based on 1 bedroom apartments and if you wished to say book a two bedroom apartment in a resort in say tier 3 (6000 points) then you have to pay an extra room enhancement fee in either points and cash. Here is the crunch, if you have a tier deposit (tier 5 (10,000 points)) and you booked an apartment tier 3 (6000 points) with that deposit then DR would book it and write off your surplus 4,000 points. Again exchange fee has to be paid (non refundable) and DR offer the same insurance to protect your points in the event of cancellation. Another thing DR have done is removed Club select/club combinations resorts which could formerly be booked at competitive points values and placed these at over double the points valuations in DEX. Indeed the whole points valuations of resorts in DEX seems to be more than double the same resort valuation in Interval. As an example DR have two resorts in Benalmadena which in low season can be booked for around 3000 points, next door to these resorts is a former part owned DR resort (Benal Beach) which was always offered at around 2000 points or less in low season, now you can find Benal Beach resort in DEX for tier 3 (6000 points) in low season. DR are meant to be looking at these resort valuations but so far nothing has been adjusted.

 

[socal4me]

is the enrollment in DX effective this year (2021)?

 

[NiteMaire]

is the enrollment in DX effective this year (2021)?

Yes for legacy weeks owners at participating resorts as well as all points owners. Outside of Sedona Summit, I don't know which resorts are including it in the MF for legacy weeks owners.

Way more information than you requested:
At the risk of getting it wrong, I'll provide additional information for both legacy week owners and points owners as it pertains to DX and II. From my reading on TUG, it looks like some DRI resorts can use RCI. I'm not including any RCI information here since I don't have a membership with them. If I get anything wrong below, I'm sure other owners will correct me.

Legacy weeks owners: Have been able to use II at their own expense; DX was recently added as an option (in 2020?) at owner's expense. Starting in 2021, at lease one resort, Sedona Summit, includes DX membership in the MF. Weeks owners can still use II at their expense.

Points owners: II membership was included in MF (if purchased from developer) until the end of 2020. Starting in 2021, DX became the exchange program included in MF. Points owners can still use II at their expense. I presume, but don't know, that points owners can add to an existing individual account.

From the comments on other treads on TUG: Legacy week owners seem mostly satisfied with DX, while points owners seem dissatisfied with DX. The points required for the tiers (especially the higher tiers) seem exceedingly high.

DX has some drawbacks when compared to II. DX does not have an "e-plus" equivalent so if you have to cancel an exchange (excluding COVID and maybe several other reasons), then you lose the cost of the exchange, any tier upgrade fees, and you have to pay $200 to reinstate your week. You can pay $50 for "insurance" or something like that, but that just lets you reinstate your week (net savings of $150) at no additional cost. You still lose the exchange fee and any tier upgrade fee (if I understand it correctly); when you exchange the unit for another exchange, you have to pay another exchange fee and, if applicable, another tier upgrade fee. I'd gladly welcome and pay for something similar to e-plus.

Since we already have an II membership for our other timeshare exchanges, the only additional costs are the one-time cost of adding Sedona Summit to II as well as the cost of future trades. For the places we like to travel, we have more opportunity to get to those places through DX than II. As I mentioned above, we planned on using DX for most of our Sedona Summit exchanges so we don't mind this change. I may have a different take if we owned more than one DRI week.