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About to become a MVC owner...need some advice on trading

bluevan

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I’m about to purchase a resale EVEN YEAR 2 bedroom lockoff unit at Marriott's Grand Chateau...as long as it passes Marriott's ROFR. I actually purchased direct from Marriott last year but rescinded because of this forum (thanks guys!).

Anyway, my plan is to lock off the units and trade each one off to have a trip every year (hopefully Hawaii). Even though this timeshare is for even years, what's the best way to trade them so I can have 1 week every year?

This will be my first timeshare so even though I know about II, I don't know exactly how it really works.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any advice.
 
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VacationForever

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When you deposit into II, it is good for 2 years, 2 years starting from the date of the weeks which you book at Grand Chateau for deposit into II. You can trade anytime during the 3 years. Say you buy 2020 use year. You can book 2020 weeks and deposit into II for use in 2020, 2021 and 2022 - end date 2 years from 2020 reserved weeks. When you deposit into II, you may use it to exchange immediately, including dates before your 2020 reserved weeks.
 

Swice

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You are on the right track in "THEORY." But I believe "REALITY" may be different.

Ten years ago, I would have said your plan would work just fine. Now, I'm not so sure for a number of reasons:
1. With the addition of the points program-- Hawaii owners found they were given many more points for each week than owners at other resorts. So it is now more likely Hawaii owners opt for points rather than depositing their units into Interval. In Interval they would be getting a week (example in Florida) for their week deposit. By exchanging for points, that same Hawaii owner would get enough points to stay a week and a half on points. (note: I'm being general but the point is they could stay longer than seven nights by using points) That means less inventory for you available in Interval.
2. Also because of the points program, Marriott itself is depositing less into Interval. Marriott is using its own unsold/repossessed inventory to make space available for point users. Again, that means less inventory in Interval for you to get to Hawaii.
3. For YEARS, I did exactly what you describe. I used one bedroom units in prime season to trade down seasons for a two bedroom (requested units in South Carolina during the spring or fall)-- my trades usually came through within a month or so (usually requested about nine months in advance). But about three of years ago, my trades started taking longer and longer.
4. I have a one bedroom Orlando holiday week deposited in Interval last December. I requested several Marriotts in Hawaii for May or June 2020 and I've yet to get a match. Interval has called several times with offers of non-Marriotts which I have declined because the non-names were lesser quality and would have also cost me a trade-fee. (Marriott trades are free to me because I'm an enrolled owner).
5. For the most part, legacy week owners get to play in both systems (week and points). But the migration to points is becoming more of reality.... that's one of the truths the sales people told us would happen, but it has taken longer than they expected.
 

jme

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Also consider buying EPlus when you make a trade. You'll then have 3 additional free trades (per week deposited)
to upgrade online when you see something, which might ultimately give you a 1BR or a 2BR in the end.
(Free if no upgrade, minimal fee if you do.)
Upgrade fees will be easily tolerable, imho, and well worth the effort (usually $59 or $118, whatever, depending on upgrade).

I have consistently turned my Studio and 1 BR Master lockoffs into 1BR, 2BR, or even 3BRs, and that's been
over 6 years doing it yearly, without fail doing excellent upgrades.
(For me, nothing to Hawaii, but that's only by choice because we didn't want HI.
You might ask around about
Hawaii trades and retrades---an ongoing search and/or retrade might be a better way to go instead of EPlus online.)
 
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bluevan

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You are on the right track in "THEORY." But I believe "REALITY" may be different.

Ten years ago, I would have said your plan would work just fine. Now, I'm not so sure for a number of reasons:
1. With the addition of the points program-- Hawaii owners found they were given many more points for each week than owners at other resorts. So it is now more likely Hawaii owners opt for points rather than depositing their units into Interval. In Interval they would be getting a week (example in Florida) for their week deposit. By exchanging for points, that same Hawaii owner would get enough points to stay a week and a half on points. (note: I'm being general but the point is they could stay longer than seven nights by using points) That means less inventory for you available in Interval.
2. Also because of the points program, Marriott itself is depositing less into Interval. Marriott is using its own unsold/repossessed inventory to make space available for point users. Again, that means less inventory in Interval for you to get to Hawaii.
3. For YEARS, I did exactly what you describe. I used one bedroom units in prime season to trade down seasons for a two bedroom (requested units in South Carolina during the spring or fall)-- my trades usually came through within a month or so (usually requested about nine months in advance). But about three of years ago, my trades started taking longer and longer.
4. I have a one bedroom Orlando holiday week deposited in Interval last December. I requested several Marriotts in Hawaii for May or June 2020 and I've yet to get a match. Interval has called several times with offers of non-Marriotts which I have declined because the non-names were lesser quality and would have also cost me a trade-fee. (Marriott trades are free to me because I'm an enrolled owner).
5. For the most part, legacy week owners get to play in both systems (week and points). But the migration to points is becoming more of reality.... that's one of the truths the sales people told us would happen, but it has taken longer than they expected.
So would you say it's not worth it to buy a week resale for the purpose of trading? I know it makes sense if I plan to stay at that resort all the time...I might stay at that resort from time to time, but my main purpose would be to trade.
 

SteelerGal

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I am a new owner as well however own traders as well to help pull locations that we occasionally want to go to. In our case, we need 2bdrms so I found an inexpensive 1bdrm that I can trade. It’s how we are traveling to Sedona next Spring Break.

For Hawaii, we actually own at an HGVC affiliate. I learned early own that it was too difficult to try to exchange into Hawaii when we wanted to travel.
 

Theiggy

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As a new-ish owner I still think it’s worth it! This year I traded my grand chateau one bedroom for a 2br KoOlina during April break, later retraded it for Frenchman’s Cove same week. I used my 2020 week to trade for HHI one of the big three resorts in August. So I think trading is alive and well, you just have to keep searching!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

TheTimeTraveler

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Using E-Plus you can get up to three trades. I know that you can request an OGS up front, but can you make another OGS request if you trade into something and then decide you would prefer to go to another destination instead?

And, as a follow up question: When does the second OGS request expire? Would the expiration be of the original OGS request or would it be the actual check in date of the first trade received?





.
 

bluevan

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As a new-ish owner I still think it’s worth it! This year I traded my grand chateau one bedroom for a 2br KoOlina during April break, later retraded it for Frenchman’s Cove same week. I used my 2020 week to trade for HHI one of the big three resorts in August. So I think trading is alive and well, you just have to keep searching!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the input...that gives me some hope!
 

mauitraveler

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So would you say it's not worth it to buy a week resale for the purpose of trading? I know it makes sense if I plan to stay at that resort all the time...I might stay at that resort from time to time, but my main purpose would be to trade.
I own an EOYO 2-BR lock-off at MGC. Always reserving a week with a high TDI (Easter week, or the 3rd or 4th week of June) and locking off the units, we have had no problems getting matches for our requests for Ko'Olina. Even our requests for a summer week have been matched. The first request is usually for a 1-BR. Then we request a studio for the second year, and choosing to accept a 1-BR unit. Once that request matches, if it's for a studio, I purchase Eplus and keep searching manually for a 1-BR. Depositing early and placing an OGS has always worked for us. Fingers crossed that you are successful with your purchase, so that you can enjoy those Hawaiian vacations! CJ
 

TXTortoise

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I expect @Dean will jump in, but you are buying one of his recommended traders, if I remember correctly. The key, as with any resort, is to be able to reserve a prime week before you deposit to II.

Ref OGS...once it hits and you accept, retrades via ePlus are manual searches.
 

Dean

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I expect @Dean will jump in, but you are buying one of his recommended traders, if I remember correctly. The key, as with any resort, is to be able to reserve a prime week before you deposit to II.

Ref OGS...once it hits and you accept, retrades via ePlus are manual searches.
Since I was mentioned and I know you know this but for the sake of the OP I'll give my thoughts. If one is buying specifically to trade here there and everywhere, I tend to prefer something that has a lockoff, relatively low to medium fees and can be had fairly inexpensively for a medium to medium high trade week. IMO there are no resorts that meet my other criteria and have a truly high trade power. For most, esp for someone new, I tend to prefer something they can & might use if they don't trade even if it's not a lockoff or is more expensive. The resorts that meet all of my criteria are some of the Orlando resort, GC, Branson, Desert weeks (the only Gold ones that meet the criteria) and Manor Club Sequel. In addition some of those have a Thursday start day which is mainly an advantage if reserving multiple owned week 13 months out. Some are higher fees like some of the desert resorts. But you've got to get a top week in season, deposit at least 10 months out (better even further) and put in an ongoing search at least a year out, preferably 18-24 months out. It also helps if you can hold out till 30-60 days out and look online many times a day esp after 60 days.

So would you say it's not worth it to buy a week resale for the purpose of trading? I know it makes sense if I plan to stay at that resort all the time...I might stay at that resort from time to time, but my main purpose would be to trade.
Worth is relative. IMO it can be worth it for some and not for others. It really depends on how flexible you realistic you are and how risk averse you are. If you need/want specific weeks at higher demand resorts then it's risky. But it might be high risk high reward in some situations. But for an EOY week one needs to consider very carefully. By the time one pays maintenance fees, II fees, lockoff fees, upgrade fees and exchange fees; an EOY 2 BR lockoff getting a 2 BR a year in II will cost one some $1150/yr using rough numbers. A little less if one takes studios & 1 BR. If you're really wanting to go to HI most of the time using the exchanges I would not take that route, I would just buy in HI. YMMV.
 

bluevan

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Thanks for all the info...I'm still learning. I'm not sure what OGS is, but if I do get the timeshare and access to II, I will be sure to do more research and figure it out.

Another question:
Has anyone tried, with the 2 bedroom lockoff, renting one side (like the studio) to help cover the cost of the MF, then use the other side (1 Bedroom) to trade? I see on Redweek, a 1 bedroom goes for around $200 per night. Even at $100-$150 per night, renting out 1 side could cover a big chunk of the MF.
 

bazzap

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Thanks for all the info...I'm still learning. I'm not sure what OGS is, but if I do get the timeshare and access to II, I will be sure to do more research and figure it out.

Another question:
Has anyone tried, with the 2 bedroom lockoff, renting one side (like the studio) to help cover the cost of the MF, then use the other side (1 Bedroom) to trade? I see on Redweek, a 1 bedroom goes for around $200 per night. Even at $100-$150 per night, renting out 1 side could cover a big chunk of the MF.
OGS is Ongoing search, so rather than having to keep manually checking for availability you enter your requirements and the system checks automatically.
 

vacationtime1

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Your overall strategy of buying a 2bd unit to split and trade within a high end system such as Marriott is a sound one. But realize that it is high maintenance (as to your time) and has high outside costs (Interval membership + trading fees +eplus fee >$300/trade).

Many of us have used strategies including splitting a unit and then using/renting/exchanging each side differently. I would speculate GC is a poor renter due to a saturated market; perhaps some owners could share their specific experiences.
 

Dean

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Thanks for all the info...I'm still learning. I'm not sure what OGS is, but if I do get the timeshare and access to II, I will be sure to do more research and figure it out.

Another question:
Has anyone tried, with the 2 bedroom lockoff, renting one side (like the studio) to help cover the cost of the MF, then use the other side (1 Bedroom) to trade? I see on Redweek, a 1 bedroom goes for around $200 per night. Even at $100-$150 per night, renting out 1 side could cover a big chunk of the MF.
In the situation of buying mainly to trade, you should well versed in this area before proceeding. If you were buying mainly to use, you might learn more about this over time while and after you buy. Personally I wouldn't be in favor if buying extra to rent. With 1 EOY unit you already have relatives high costs on a per trade basis, they'll go up in this situation. Plus the cheap traders tend not to rent all that well, you'll get more value just trading. Just because you see listings doesn't mean they are being rented. I looked through redweeks and I doubt you'd cover your yearly costs renting the 2 BR, must less the 1 BR. And if you have a single EOY unit then rent part of the time your per trade costs go up even more.

You mentioned mainly trading to HI, could you lay our your ideal exchange options over the next 6-10 year. This might be a good way to do get to HI (and similar ?Aruba) if you're OK with studios & 1 BR, can plan at least a year ahead and can take any one of a number of weeks but it is not a good plan if you need 2 BR consistently to high demand areas or have a more restrictive planning or vacation schedule. And it could be too stressful if you are not willing to wait and gamble on a consistent basis. Personally I've very comfortable with trading but if I were starting out, knowing what I know and wanting to get to HI every year, I would not do it this way. If I wanted to go a week a year I'd likely just buy two EOY weeks and forego the trading/II costs. More expensive but not dramatically so and in that scenario, worth the control and peace you get having things set. Plus it helps with scheduling airfare as well as just planning your life. Also remember owners have more control over view type AND unit assignments.
 

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We traded an Orlando week for a hawaii week this upcoming Jan. For trading into Hawaii, it’s possible but takes work. Like many users have already stated, placing an OGS far out in advance is your best bet because Hawaii inventory flows through the system every 4-5 months (if that), and it’s often limited inventory. An odd week here and there would pop up from users retrading. When you’re doing manual EPlus searches for upgrades, you’ll need to check every day. I was checking every morning for weeks and lucked out on a 3 BD in Ko Olina.
 

davidvel

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OGS is Ongoing search, so rather than having to keep manually checking for availability you enter your requirements and the system checks automatically.
Except when it fails to match your request and inventory passes through to those searching manually, which unfortunately happens.
 

bazzap

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Except when it fails to match your request and inventory passes through to those searching manually, which unfortunately happens.
I am not sure how or when that may happen?
I have had dozens of Ongoing searches successfully fulfilled.
 

Dean

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I am not sure how or when that may happen?
I have had dozens of Ongoing searches successfully fulfilled.
It does happen but if one looks manually and has an OGS, that's the best you can do. I've also had II call me to ask if I'd accept a given exchange that was EXACTLY what I had listed and it wasn't in the 60 day window. I've also had one instance where I found it online and it hadn't matched.
 

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To OP:

Are you OK with studios and 1br in Hawaii? Are you OK with off season in Hawaii? Are you OK with a lot of extra costs for trading? Then go ahead. Trading may work.

Do you need a 2br in Hawaii, or a week during high season? If yes, don't buy a trader.
 

b2bailey

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I think the key word in this answer is flexibility. If you are tied to a school year calendar or need an advance vacation request, I'd say forget about doing Hawaii this way.
 

BJRSanDiego

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@bluevan,

I own 2-1/2 Marriott Desert Springs. I chose that location because it was within driving distance, I like the area and if I cannot do an exchange, I could always just use the unit there. Two of the 3 units are in the same season, so I can reserve Thanksgiving (highest trading power: TDI = 125) at the 13 month point.

Trading in to Hawaii is possible (I've done it a couple of times) but isn't a "slam-dunk". But as @echino said, if you target efficiencies and 1 BR's in Hawaii, you'll greatly up your chances. Also, if you are flexible in terms of the TS resort in Hawaii (e.g., the Kona Coast is an easier trade and is nice) you'll up your chances over just focusing on the top-tier TS.

I am flexible in my travel dates and I enjoy annual driving trips to locations like Lake Tahoe, Carmel, Phoenix, Tucson, Sedona, Palm Desert (I often do a "split", deposit my efficiency and trade for a 1 or 2 BR at my home resort), and Newport Coast. Occasionally we drive to Las Vegas and either stay at the GC or Tahiti Village. With the exception of Carmel, these are all fairly easy trades especially if you plan in advance. I don't know where you live, but it helps if you are in an area with multiple TS targets.

So, for me it works to exchange my timeshares. The GC has a lower MF, so your costs would be lower than mine. But whether it will work out for you depends a lot on YOU and your exchange technique. That is, you would need to plan well in advance, put in your on-going search (OGS) requests well in advance, have some flexibility on the TS targets, have realistic expectations, be flexible on your travel dates and do regular manual searches (monitoring the member forum, Distressed and sightings, can be helpful).
 

bluevan

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To OP:

Are you OK with studios and 1br in Hawaii? Are you OK with off season in Hawaii? Are you OK with a lot of extra costs for trading? Then go ahead. Trading may work.

Do you need a 2br in Hawaii, or a week during high season? If yes, don't buy a trader.
I really appreciate all the input...it is very helpful.

To answer some of the questions:
- I’m ok with 1 bedrooms, and we could make a studio work if we have to (our kids are still young)
- we are ok with off season and actually prefer it because it’s cheaper. We don’t mind pulling our kids out of school for vacation. So we are flexible on our travel.
- I’m not sure about all the trading fees, but I guess I’m ok with it since I got bought the resale for relatively cheap ($1250).

Maybe we can lock off the unit and do one week at GC one year, then try to trade the other unit for a week in Hawaii the other year and plan way ahead.
 

echino

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I really appreciate all the input...it is very helpful.

To answer some of the questions:
- I’m ok with 1 bedrooms, and we could make a studio work if we have to (our kids are still young)
- we are ok with off season and actually prefer it because it’s cheaper. We don’t mind pulling our kids out of school for vacation. So we are flexible on our travel.
- I’m not sure about all the trading fees, but I guess I’m ok with it since I got bought the resale for relatively cheap ($1250).

Maybe we can lock off the unit and do one week at GC one year, then try to trade the other unit for a week in Hawaii the other year and plan way ahead.
It may work then. Here are the additional costs, over and above your maintenance fees:

1. Marriott lockoff fee. $90.
2. II membership fee. I think it's $99 per year for basic membership.
3. II exchange fee. $209, but there is a discount for Marriott to Marriott exchanges.
4. II e-Plus fee. $79 I think?

This all adds up.

To get a Hawaii Marriott, you first need to reserve your home week, lock it off, then deposit both portions into II. Then you need to set up an ongoing search. You can only set up an OGS for a 1br with a 1br deposit, and only for a studio with a studio deposit. Select a very wide range of dates and resorts when setting up an OGS. Then you wait until it matches. After it matches, if you are not 100% sure you will use it, buy an ePlus, and continue searching manually every day to see if a retrade for a different date or a bigger size becomes available.

So yes, trading may work, but there is a lot of uncertainty and additional fees.
 
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