7/2022 Owner's Update -- The best explanation I have received on the Diamond Resorts acquisition and how it applies to HGVC members

[GT75]

I thought I read here that the $7k deal was for people that had purchased from HGV, not resale owners, so in that case you might have to make a new developer purchase.

This is my understanding. But, I think that someone could “upgrade” there resale purchase to retail during an owner’s update.

 

[dougp26364]

We were told and shown statistics that 70% of reservations within the HGVC system were made at 6 months or less. We have to remember most of us here on TUG do not fall into that category, but it seems most people don't plan as far away as we do. I have noticed that during our last stay in Italy, and as we are here in Park City now, many here too did indeed book at 6 months or less (I have asked several people nicely ). I was also told that if one was an elite owner, joining HGVMax would still include one's Elete benefits as well.

Of course 90% of statistics are made up on the fly

Maybe that’s what their numbers say or, maybe that’s the nice laminated piece of sales misinformations they’re peddling. I can’t tell you the number of t8mes I’ve been presented with official looking information that turned out to be horse lucky. For instance, Disney has bought up all this land and is building a theme park in Branson, MO. Orlando is the most requested destination and therefore has the strongest trade power for timeshares. Your investment will in a timeshare will pay for itself in savings in X number of years.

I’m not saying the statistics you were shown aren’t true. I know a LOT of non-timeshare owners who book vacations less than 6 months in advance. I haven’t met a lot of timeshare owners who book less than 6 months out with the exception of those who manipulate the last minute market to stretch their ownership value. I do know from personal experience, the most desirable destinations and best views are booked farther in advance of 6 months. Practical and personal experince from owning for 24 has taught me this lesson. Nothing a salesman shows me in laminated paper will change hard earned experience.

I would believe the average traveler books within a 6 month window if your including those who rent. I have trouble believing that the average timeshare owner books reservations like the average traveler, and this distinction is why some are extremely disappointed with their ownership and then get hooked by the timeshare exit scammers.

 

[dayooper]

Of course 90% of statistics are made up on the fly

91.579% of stats are made up in the fly. Just sayin.

 

[dougp26364]

91.579% of stats are made up in the fly. Just sayin.

I was soooo close.

Of course, the point being that sales staff isn’t above quoting something that’s pure fiction, so long as it supports their cause. Once you’re past the rescind date, you can’t do a thing if they lied or manipulated the truth just a bit.

this graph indicates the difference between booking and departure for European travelers, and it does indeed indicate the majority book their travel less than 6 months prior to departure. However, this is for ALL travelers, not just timeshare owners. If I was trying to sell a MAX, that’s an important detail I’d leave out.

 

[GMan82]

Yup. I can find all units available at W. 57th in early January (within 6 months), for example

Cheers.

I don’t think Max has access to W 57th at the 6 month window. I think the HGVMax window at BHC spots is different. The club window is 59 days for W 57th! I remember a document showing the max windows and it’s definitely not 6 months for Max there.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I don’t think Max has access to W 57th at the 6 month window. I think the HGVMax window at BHC spots is different. The club window is 59 days for W 57th! I remember a document showing the max windows and it’s definitely not 6 months for Max there.

This is correct. The official Max Q&A states that Max for bHC will be the same as when the Club window opens. 59 days for W57, 89 days for other NYC and DC

 

[dayooper]

I don’t think Max has access to W 57th at the 6 month window. I think the HGVMax window at BHC spots is different. The club window is 59 days for W 57th! I remember a document showing the max windows and it’s definitely not 6 months for Max there.

I think that’s the point of his post. A salesman can show a potential buyer that there’s “availability” even in NYC at 6 months. Without any context or explanation of the booking rules, a quick glance looks like there’s a bunch of high demand places that are easily booked at 6 months. Just another way of cherry picking the stats to encourage someone to purchase.

 

[dougp26364]

Yup. I can find all units available at W. 57th in early January (within 6 months), for example

Cheers.

I’d almost bet DRI owners can see Palm Desert weeks in August at 6 months as well, which would be another good example.

 

[Nowaker]

thought I read here that the $7k deal was for people that had purchased from HGV, not resale owners, so in that case you might have to make a new developer purchase.

The reading of club rules does not support this and I made a deeper analysis of the legal text a long time ago. (I can't easily find it... Man, how I wish it was a Reddit community instead...) Option 3 - Ala Carte Membership - is available to all legacy club members. The reason they don't sell it yet to anyone (either retail or resale) is HGV Max as such doesn't exist, so you'd pay $7K for nothing. It would temporarily increase their liabilities on balance sheet until it's delivered, and also have some consequences with their payment processors. On the other hand, when they sell you a deed, a promise to give you HGV Max in the future is just that, a promise, but not a liability on the balance sheet. You even sign a waiver that you're buying a deed, not HGV Max. That is an immediate profit for them, and can modify Max as they please with zero risk.

 

[rdw95]

I agree with everyone on the HGV Max issues. I guess we will have to wait until the dust settles.

Here is what we did:
-- Park City is one of our properties. We like to come to Park City, and are currently here for 18 days. Unfortunately, we have to go home tomorrow. We have enjoyed our morning walks with temps in the 60's and everything PC and the surrounding areas have to offer.
-- We own a 2 week 2BR+ every year week, and a 1BR+ Even year and Odd year contract here in PC.
-- We always try to get into the 1BR Premier units if available, as we like them.
-- For several reasons, I had always wished that we could combine the Even Year and Odd Year contracts. I spoke to the home office in Orlando regarding this and the costs of combining the contracts, so I had that data and associated costs.
-- During our update, I looked into upgrading our 1BR+ even and odd year contracts into a yearly contract of a 1 BR Premier unit if available. They found one, and presented me the options of trading in the 1BR+ even and odd year contracts and going into a 1 BR Premier every year contract.
-- I also looked into what resale contracts were on the market. But, after discussion with my wife, we realized we did not want another contract with the associated maintenance fees. We currently own 7 weeks with our initial HGVC purchase, plus our resale purchases.
-- After looking at all sides, and the associated costs, I came up with a number in my mind I would be willing to pay to upgrade.
-- I discussed this with the sales associate, and asked him what he could do.
-- He came back to me and presented something, and with no pressure let me think about it and get back to him.
-- We ended up upgrading for what I considered to be a very favorable price point, upgraded from a 1BR+ units to a 1BR Premier every year contract, ended up with more yearly points with the same MF, and the points started in 2022. This allows us to book our PC unit 1 year ahead, and not worry about 9 month availability. As the popularity of PC continues to increase for the summer months, this assures us of summer availability and the type of unit we want.
-- For us, HGV Max was just icing on the cake. We did not pay any additional for it. It did not figure into the discussion, although it was reviewed by the salesman.

We will now see how it (HGV Max) works out. Bottom line is we got what we wanted, at what I consider a very reasonable price point for what we got (and I am very conservative!), and am happy. If HGV Max does not add any value, we have all of the HGVC things we had before the purchase.

One of my quotes I have told many of my friends is this: "I have never seen a Hurse with a luggage rack on top", and you can't take it with you. We purchase where we want to go, and have picked up some excellent values in the resale markets. We plan on enjoying every point every year as long as we can.

 

[dougp26364]

I agree with everyone on the HGV Max issues. I guess we will have to wait until the dust settles.

Here is what we did:
-- Park City is one of our properties. We like to come to Park City, and are currently here for 18 days. Unfortunately, we have to go home tomorrow. We have enjoyed our morning walks with temps in the 60's and everything PC and the surrounding areas have to offer.
-- We own a 2 week 2BR+ every year week, and a 1BR+ Even year and Odd year contract here in PC.
-- We always try to get into the 1BR Premier units if available, as we like them.
-- For several reasons, I had always wished that we could combine the Even Year and Odd Year contracts. I spoke to the home office in Orlando regarding this and the costs of combining the contracts, so I had that data and associated costs.
-- During our update, I looked into upgrading our 1BR+ even and odd year contracts into a yearly contract of a 1 BR Premier unit if available. They found one, and presented me the options of trading in the 1BR+ even and odd year contracts and going into a 1 BR Premier every year contract.
-- I also looked into what resale contracts were on the market. But, after discussion with my wife, we realized we did not want another contract with the associated maintenance fees. We currently own 7 weeks with our initial HGVC purchase, plus our resale purchases.
-- After looking at all sides, and the associated costs, I came up with a number in my mind I would be willing to pay to upgrade.
-- I discussed this with the sales associate, and asked him what he could do.
-- He came back to me and presented something, and with no pressure let me think about it and get back to him.
-- We ended up upgrading for what I considered to be a very favorable price point, upgraded from a 1BR+ units to a 1BR Premier every year contract, ended up with more yearly points with the same MF, and the points started in 2022. This allows us to book our PC unit 1 year ahead, and not worry about 9 month availability. As the popularity of PC continues to increase for the summer months, this assures us of summer availability and the type of unit we want.
-- For us, HGV Max was just icing on the cake. We did not pay any additional for it. It did not figure into the discussion, although it was reviewed by the salesman.

We will now see how it (HGV Max) works out. Bottom line is we got what we wanted, at what I consider a very reasonable price point for what we got (and I am very conservative!), and am happy. If HGV Max does not add any value, we have all of the HGVC things we had before the purchase.

One of my quotes I have told many of my friends is this: "I have never seen a Hurse with a luggage rack on top", and you can't take it with you. We purchase where we want to go, and have picked up some excellent values in the resale markets. We plan on enjoying every point every year as long as we can.

Sounds like a reasonable deal to me. The last time we attended an update was for a similar reason. We were interested in upgrading our 2 bedroom LV Blv week to a 1 bedroom Grand Plus week. Unfortunately all the sales person wanted to talk about was a Kingsland downgrade, something neither of us cared about. I couldn’t get her to understand it was about the ability to book 12 months in advance, not all about MF’s. She lost a sale and we’ve continued on without an issue of getting what we want. At this point I’m thinking we’ll stick with what we own.

 

[dayooper]

Just reviewing what @rdw95 posted previously and I noticed there are only 3 collections. Was this salesperson saying that the Latin American Collection is going away? Are they combining it with another collection? Just trying to figure out what they are saying.

 

[GregT]

13. HGV Max owners will be able to have "Loyalty Search Requests". What this means is "that eligible members can set up an automated reservation search when there is no current reservation availability. This search can be for a resort or region, date or date range, any eligible number of nights, any accommodation size or type, and for up to 10 months prior to arrival. Should availability open, the active searches are fulfilled through an automated process based on the HGV Max tier status". The way all this was explained to us was that the request would be put in, and filled once the 9 month window opened. He went on to say this would be filled first automatically before others trying to make reservations at the 9 month window would have a chance.

Thank you for the update, that was an interesting summary.

I find the Loyalty Searches feature to be interesting and believe that it is limited to people at higher tiers -- practically speaking, I'm not sure that is going to impact us. I would suspect at the 9 month mark, the most highly demanded weeks (like Lagoon Tower on Presidents Day) don't exist in a 7 day reservation, and thus the Loyalty Search won't hit. It will hit on Kings Land/Grand Waikikian where there is plenty of capacity already, meaning a Loyalty Search wouldn't have been required to get the reservation (except to protect the forgetful owner, which is me sometimes.)

Do any TUGgers view the Loyalty Search differently?

Best,

Greg

 

[HuskerATL]

Thank you for the update, that was an interesting summary.

I find the Loyalty Searches feature to be interesting and believe that it is limited to people at higher tiers -- practically speaking, I'm not sure that is going to impact us. I would suspect at the 9 month mark, the most highly demanded weeks (like Lagoon Tower on Presidents Day) don't exist in a 7 day reservation, and thus the Loyalty Search won't hit. It will hit on Kings Land/Grand Waikikian where there is plenty of capacity already, meaning a Loyalty Search wouldn't have been required to get the reservation (except to protect the forgetful owner, which is me sometimes.)

Do any TUGgers view the Loyalty Search differently?

Best,

Greg

Just to add though. We don't know if the loyalty search will be only for HVC properties or for HVC and HGVC. Since this is an existing function in DRI, it may be that HGV Max members can use that for reserving in DRI/HVC to align to their program benefits but not the other way around.

 

[GT75]

I also agree with @HuskerATL. We really need to see what is actually implemented.

 

[dayooper]

I also agree with @HuskerATL. We really need to see what is actually implemented.

Supposedly, we will find out Friday as that’s when Max will be rolled out.

 

[HuskerATL]

Supposedly, we will find out Friday as that’s when Max will be rolled out.

August is the rumor but August 1st? I will believe it when someone in Max tells us that they see HVC properties available.

 

[Nowaker]

Latest info on loyalty search:

Source: FB group https://m.facebook.com/groups/1962839810567518/permalink/2027707347414097/ - after Centum+ user expressed his happiness with 10 month window, and I gave him a red pill, he then double checked with the salesweasel to confirm that.

 

[HuskerATL]

Latest info on loyalty search:

View attachment 60817

Source: FB group https://m.facebook.com/groups/1962839810567518/permalink/2027707347414097/ - after Centum+ user expressed his happiness with 10 month window, and I gave him a red pill, he then double checked with the salesweasel to confirm that.

But, I still don't see if it will be for HGVC and/or HVC reservations. It may be only for HVC reservations since that aligns to their existing benefits but not ours. We will know once the program launches though.

 

[NOLA47]

I read earlier that even if you buy into hgvMax, you still will not be entitled to book the diamond EMBARC properties. Is that still the case?

 

[dandjane1]

I posted the below comment back in June on another thread, but it certainly seems that the process is WORSE than slimy. We were told that HGV Max went "Live" on 04 April 2022. Fasten your seat belts - I doubt the ride will be pleasant!
Quote:
According to the sales weasel at our recent "presentation" at a Hilton Resort, we, as Diamond owners can
always use our points at DRI or DRI/HGV resorts, but not at HGV /Hilton resorts, unless you buy more DRI points,
which will cost ya $8 each for 5K points, or $40 K. This opens the door to use HGV Max. The "benefits" of HGV
Max are that your points can now be used at Hilton, but you'll be a minimum member, since no Elite Level
of DRI transfers. Eventually, the DRI Trust is intended to be broken/abrogated/done away with. The bum's rush then will
be to buy more points so as to "bring over" all your DRIn points into 100% Hilton points. Slimy all around.
This is only my understanding - YMMV.
Unquote.

 

[HuskerATL]

I posted the below comment back in June on another thread, but it certainly seems that the process is WORSE than slimy. We were told that HGV Max went "Live" on 04 April 2022. Fasten your seat belts - I doubt the ride will be pleasant!
Quote:
According to the sales weasel at our recent "presentation" at a Hilton Resort, we, as Diamond owners can
always use our points at DRI or DRI/HGV resorts, but not at HGV /Hilton resorts, unless you buy more DRI points,
which will cost ya $8 each for 5K points, or $40 K. This opens the door to use HGV Max. The "benefits" of HGV
Max are that your points can now be used at Hilton, but you'll be a minimum member, since no Elite Level
of DRI transfers. Eventually, the DRI Trust is intended to be broken/abrogated/done away with. The bum's rush then will
be to buy more points so as to "bring over" all your DRIn points into 100% Hilton points. Slimy all around.
This is only my understanding - YMMV.
Unquote.

Interesting since I have read and heard first hand in a sales update that HGVC is moving to points and away from deeds so, if that is the case, I would think it would move more toward the DRI structure.

 

[goaliedave]

Hurry! Only free until August 1st then $7k! lol typical sales talk, don't fall for it. Diamond members lose nothing, still book 13 months out, no new reasons to buy Hilton.

 

[StapelmanMO]

Absolutely. We have always scored reservations at Hawaii Hiltons through RCI through other timeshares we had. Hilton appears to do block releases in under six months. The killer for us is that joining HGVMAX apparently wipes out DRI Club Combo that we use to leverage our other timeshares to get to the Centum level. Why would we want to pay to get out of that benefit?

 

[nobodyhasthisname2]

I feel like the biggest issue with MAX is going to be the resorts that HGVC members don’t have any lead time for booking into - the 6 month window resorts like the Hokulani and the Grand Islander and for me, the ones I’m most worried about in NYC. Non-MAXers will get access at the same time as MAXers and we’ll all be sitting at our computers at midnight trying to get in where we want to.


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