7/2022 Owner's Update -- The best explanation I have received on the Diamond Resorts acquisition and how it applies to HGVC members

[rdw95]

We are at Park City for 2 weeks, and had an Owner's update. The reason we went was to receive the latest on the Diamond Resorts acquisition. It seems that the dust has cleared, and he gave us a very clear explanation of what will happen. Hope these are accurate, as it is what we understood.

1. Beginning in August, HGV Max goes live

2. HGV ownership is a "Deed"

3. Diamond Resorts is a "Trust", and has 3 "Trust" groups comprising the ownership (not deeds). They are based on location; (US) - Most of the US; (H) - a part of the US and Hawaii; and (C) - the rest of the world

4. HGVC members will NOT be able to schedule in the Diamonds Resort properties, UNLESS they either purchase into the Diamonds Trusts, or become a member of HGV Max.

5. Diamond Resort members will NOT be able to schedule in the HGVC properties, UNLESS they either purchase a deeded HGVC property, or become a member of HGV Max.

6. As of August 1st, you will have to pay a purchase price to get into HGV Max (of $7-10,000). It will not be automatically included if you upgrade or purchase a new property through HGV.

7. Before August 1st, HGVC owners can upgrade or purchase a new property, and HGV Max will be included at no charge if it is a qualifying (enough $$) purchase

8. After August 1st, HGVC owners will have to pay the HGV Max purchase price (in addition to any purchase or upgrade) to be included in HGV Max

9. HGVC owners who become members of HGV Max will be able to reserve Diamond Resorts 6 months ahead.

10. Diamond Resorts (trust) owners will be able to reserve Diamond Resorts properties within the Trust they own in (US, H, C) 13 months ahead. They will be able to reserve Diamond Resorts outside of their Trust (the other two) 10 months ahead of time.

11. HGVC owners will still be able to reserve their home weeks 12 - 9 months ahead of time (as it currently is).

12. HGVC owners will be able to reserve HGVC sites 9 months ahead if it is not their home resort/week (as it currently is).

13. HGV Max owners will be able to have "Loyalty Search Requests". What this means is "that eligible members can set up an automated reservation search when there is no current reservation availability. This search can be for a resort or region, date or date range, any eligible number of nights, any accommodation size or type, and for up to 10 months prior to arrival. Should availability open, the active searches are fulfilled through an automated process based on the HGV Max tier status". The way all this was explained to us was that the request would be put in, and filled once the 9 month window opened. He went on to say this would be filled first automatically before others trying to make reservations at the 9 month window would have a chance.

14. HGV Max members will have tiers, just like HGVC members have. These tiers are based on points. I have attached a photo with the explanation of the HGV Max Tiers. These tiers are based on points, and the points required for each tier are hand-written above each column.

15. He said that the way most Diamond Resorts members are getting access to the HGVC properties is that they are buying HGVC property, thus having an "in" into the HGVC system. That way they will have the same reservation windows as other HGVC members, because they will be HGVC owners.

16. He said that both HGVC and Diamond Resorts have roughly 350,000 members each.

17. Purchases at the HGVC affiliate sales offices (SW Florida, Scotland) will not apply toward becoming an HGV Max owner.

18. HGVC resale purchases will not count toward or apply to becoming HGV Max members.

Hope this is not clear as mud.

 

[SFTechGeek]

Thanks. Good information to know. Going to an owner update at Ocean Tower in a few weeks and I'm sure that is what they're going to be pushing to purchase HGV Max before Aug 1. But it seems that the salespeople in Hawaii are nowhere as pushy as those in Vegas.

 

[rdw95]

Our guy was great - not pushy at all.

 

[HuskerATL]

They didn't mention the $7k fee to join without a purchase or upgrade?

I was just at one in Tuscany this week and they tried to "upgrade" our annual Tuscany to an EOY for $7k that would get us into Max. Their selling point was that we would have less maintenance, of course, since it is a EOY versus an annual and that since we are Elite Premier we would come in as Premier +. We have 1 retail (Tuscany), two resale at Blvd, and 6 resale in Scotland and he told us that all of them would come into Max and count toward the tiers. He didn't seem to know anything about the $7k fee but then I told him that it is in the reference guide and I showed him the Mark Wang email that HGVClub Legacy members would be able to pay the fee later this year to join Max without a new purchase/upgrade, they seemed stumped but then offered to match the $7k with the Tuscany "downgrade". He also didn't know how the $199/contract, that is listed in the reference guide, will actually work for folks who have multiple deeds.

He also admitted that the sales staff don't know how all of this is going to actually be rolled out. He seemed stumped, at first, about the Scotland counting for Elite and told us that we are "brave" to buy there since it is not owned by HGVC but only managed so HGVC could stop managing them anytime.

He did talk up the 30/30 travel option that you can see in the above graphic and the $700 OS credit. He also said that we would retain all of our Elite Premier benefits and get the Premier + benefits so for OS, it would be a $700 credit and the current 30% discount that we already get. I think he was full of it and you would not retain the Elite Premier benefits but move to the Max Tiers instead if we had joined.

I am still in a wait and see mode for this since I still don't think most sales people actually know what they are talking about. The are either cherry picking points for a sale or telling people what they think it will be.

There has also been discussion that the Loyalty searches will only be for HVC properties, not HGVC or bHC since the 10 month window aligns to one of their reservation windows.

Corrina on the FB group commented that she was told January for the DRI side of Max. I have also heard August but we will see. I did tell the sales rep at our meeting that the Max rollout out has been a sh$tshow.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

As a Diamond owner, how you describe things is almost exactly the same as currently exists. The big change will be opening Diamond inventory to Max members at 6 months out.

Other questions:

1. How do they balance inventory? It sounds as if Max is still tied to a base ownership with an HGVC deed or Diamond trust ownership. What happens to HGVC inventory if more Diamond Max members make reservations in HGVC than do HGVC Max members reserving in Diamond? Don't those two have to balance out?
2. What about deeded Diamond owners who have been part of the Diamond Club?

 

[GT75]

How do they balance inventory? It sounds as if Max is still tied to a base ownership with an HGVC deed or Diamond trust ownership. What happens to HGVC inventory if more Diamond Max members make reservations in HGVC than do HGVC Max members reserving in Diamond? Don't those two have to balance out?

Good questions which honestly IDK. But really, IDK how HGVC balances out their system. I think that they just let availability manage the system. I would like to hear from others.

 

[dayooper]

Good questions which honestly IDK. But really, IDK how HGVC balances out their system. I think that they just let availability manage the system. I would like to hear from others.

I always wonder if it’s just a case of giving the home week reservations and the club reservations 3 months booking availability. I think the DRI is just an issue of so much inventory is owned by the developer, but does HGVC own enough to allow for the DRI Max owners? Would there be enough DRI Max owners to really be an issue? Something tells me we will never know.

 

[brp]

Good questions which honestly IDK. But really, IDK how HGVC balances out their system. I think that they just let availability manage the system. I would like to hear from others.

I would expect that the available inventory seen by members with different affiliations will be different. This way they can manage DRI participation in HGVC, for example. by having a subset of HGVC inventory available to them. It could even be dynamic based on how many HGVC folks take DRI inventry, but I doubt this last bit.

Cheers.

 

[rdw95]

They didn't mention the $7k fee to join without a purchase or upgrade?
--- yes they did

As a Diamond owner, how you describe things is almost exactly the same as currently exists. The big change will be opening Diamond inventory to Max members at 6 months out.
--- that was what I was thinking. I don't know if Diamond owners who do not purchase HGVC Deeded property but join HGVMax will get a 6 month window on HGVC property or not. I don't remember what he said on that as it did not apply to us. What he did say is that it looked like most Diamond owners were simply purchasing a HGVC property, and getting all the same things current HGVC members have, plus being included in HGV Max.

 

[HuskerATL]

They didn't mention the $7k fee to join without a purchase or upgrade?
--- yes they did

As a Diamond owner, how you describe things is almost exactly the same as currently exists. The big change will be opening Diamond inventory to Max members at 6 months out.
--- that was what I was thinking. I don't know if Diamond owners who do not purchase HGVC Deeded property but join HGVMax will get a 6 month window on HGVC property or not. I don't remember what he said on that as it did not apply to us. What he did say is that it looked like most Diamond owners were simply purchasing a HGVC property, and getting all the same things current HGVC members have, plus being included in HGV Max.

I know one thing that folks, who own both, are wondering is how their points will combine, i.e. will they end up with one bucket or two separate buckets of points.

 

[brp]

I know one thing that folks, who own both, are wondering is how their points will combine, i.e. will they end up with one bucket or two separate buckets of points.

I would expect multiple buckets since each bucket has different privileges in each program. Just as HGVC and bHC are in separate buckets with different privileges. They already have the infrastructure for separate buckets so adding more should not be difficult.

Cheers.

 

[HuskerATL]

I would expect multiple buckets since each bucket has different privileges in each program. Just as HGVC and bHC are in separate buckets with different privileges. They already have the infrastructure for separate buckets so adding more should not be difficult.

Cheers.

Probably won't be good news for them. I assume that they would want one bucket to use across HGV if they are in Max.

 

[Tamaradarann]

They didn't mention the $7k fee to join without a purchase or upgrade?
--- yes they did

As a Diamond owner, how you describe things is almost exactly the same as currently exists. The big change will be opening Diamond inventory to Max members at 6 months out.
--- that was what I was thinking. I don't know if Diamond owners who do not purchase HGVC Deeded property but join HGVMax will get a 6 month window on HGVC property or not. I don't remember what he said on that as it did not apply to us. What he did say is that it looked like most Diamond owners were simply purchasing a HGVC property, and getting all the same things current HGVC members have, plus being included in HGV Max.

I am confused with #9 the opening of Diamond inventory 6 months out, as compared to #13 the loyalty search. If you can do a loyalty search 10 months out to be in effect at 9 months out why do you need to have the Diamond Inventory opened up at 6 months out?

 

[HuskerATL]

I am confused with #9 the opening of Diamond inventory 6 months out, as compared to #13 the loyalty search. If you can do a loyalty search 10 months out to be in effect at 9 months out why do you need to have the Diamond Inventory opened up at 6 months out?

The loyalty search is only for higher level tier members and fulfilled based on level.... At least, according to the tier info shared in prior posts.

 

[weems637]

What is the attraction to spend an additional $7,000 for the option of booking Diamond resorts six months out? It is challenging enough to make reservations at nine months!

 

[PigsDad]

What is the attraction to spend an additional $7,000 for the option of booking Diamond resorts six months out? It is challenging enough to make reservations at nine months!

Exactly!

Kurt

 

[90_Min_Sales_Pitch]

What is the attraction to spend an additional $7,000 for the option of booking Diamond resorts six months out? It is challenging enough to make reservations at nine months!

I'm holding out for HGV MINI, where I can book 3 months out!

 

[HuskerATL]

What is the attraction to spend an additional $7,000 for the option of booking Diamond resorts six months out? It is challenging enough to make reservations at nine months!

None, for the moment but, at some point down the road when many have been added, it may be nice to have access to them. DRI folks will join no matter what we do so our inventory will be impacted so we may as well impact theirs also. Right now sales folks have been telling folks that they can only join with a purchase so I wanted to hear if they are giving the whole truth... That a $7k fee will be an option later.

On availability, I haven't really had problems reserving. We have 9 booked this year without too much effort but when Max is functional, reserving in the 6 month window will be more challenging.

 

[geist1223]

We are DRI members tjat have no desire to join. I am sure there are many other DRI members that have no desire to join.

 

[HuskerATL]

We are DRI members tjat have no desire to join. I am sure there are many other DRI members that have no desire to join.

I assume that many will though. It would give them access to both HGVC and bHC.

 

[dougp26364]

This really sounds like a poorly planned integration to me. There is little to no advantage to purchasing retail. It’s still better to purchase resale in either HGVC if those are the resorts you desire most, purchase in the DRI trust if those are the resorts you desire most, or purchase resale in both HGVC or the DRI trust that fits your needs.

the reasoning is simple. The 6 month MAX booking window is the shortest of them all. If I purchase a DRI trust resale, I have a 13 month booking window in that trust. If I buy HGVC resale I have a 9 month booking window with all HGVC resorts. The resale purchase price for both would undoubtedly be LESS than buying retail AND I gain, at a minimum, a three month head start for reservations over all MAX members.

I see absolutely no advantage to making a retail purchase if the only reason is to gain access to the MAX program.

As to the validity of the salesman’s comments. I would almost bet that the buy in price will be less than $7,000 if you make a retail purchase after August 1. That statement is being made to get that sense of urgency for an impulse purchase today. I still find it amazing that Hilton believes people will pay $7,000 to join MAX with all it’s limitations, but we at TUG are informed consumers whereas the average timeshare purchaser is not, and likely doesn’t understand the resale market.

I had really high hopes for this program. With the information available at this time, it appears to be a bad deal for us. Perhaps with the official roll out we’ll see some truth the sales staff has been hiding so they can make a sale today rather than customers saying they’ll wait until everything is official.

I almost forgot. Did he say August of what year

 

[dougp26364]

None, for the moment but, at some point down the road when many have been added, it may be nice to have access to them. DRI folks will join no matter what we do so our inventory will be impacted so we may as well impact theirs also. Right now sales folks have been telling folks that they can only join with a purchase so I wanted to hear if they are giving the whole truth... That a $7k fee will be an option later.

On availability, I haven't really had problems reserving. We have 9 booked this year without too much effort but when Max is functional, reserving in the 6 month window will be more challenging.

I feel you’re correct about the 6 month or less booking window becoming more of a challenge. Short notice/discounted stays will dry up at some point down the road. Based on my experience with Marriott, I would estimate it will take upwards of 10 years before the MAX membership is large enough to have a significant impact. I don’t think there will be many owners buying additional weeks just to become MAX members. I believe they’ll buy for other reasons and just get MAX thrown in. If there’s an additional cost, it will have to be so low that it’s worth the extra price. I don’t believe $7,000 to $10,000 is the price point significant numbers of people will jump at the option, and those that do will be those who complain timeshare is a rip off and want out via the timeshare exit scammers.

I see this as a very slow moving program rather than a skyrocketing program. I just don’t see membership numbers climbing fast if what you’ve been told is accurate. The problem is, the salesman’s lips were moving. Accuracy isn’t a salesman’s strong point, even when they’re not pushy or aggressive.

 

[HuskerATL]

I feel you’re correct about the 6 month or less booking window becoming more of a challenge. Short notice/discounted stays will dry up at some point down the road. Based on my experience with Marriott, I would estimate it will take upwards of 10 years before the MAX membership is large enough to have a significant impact. I don’t think there will be many owners buying additional weeks just to become MAX members. I believe they’ll buy for other reasons and just get MAX thrown in. If there’s an additional cost, it will have to be so low that it’s worth the extra price. I don’t believe $7,000 to $10,000 is the price point significant numbers of people will jump at the option, and those that do will be those who complain timeshare is a rip off and want out via the timeshare exit scammers.

I see this as a very slow moving program rather than a skyrocketing program. I just don’t see membership numbers climbing fast if what you’ve been told is accurate. The problem is, the salesman’s lips were moving. Accuracy isn’t a salesman’s strong point, even when they’re not pushy or aggressive.

Someone had posted the sales numbers for Q1 and it was up. It will be interesting to see Q2 since those folks are automatically in Max. I agree though that inventory won't take an immediate hit since they are slow to rebrand to HVC but we will see how many are in when the portal is open in August.

 

[HuskerATL]

This really sounds like a poorly planned integration to me. There is little to no advantage to purchasing retail. It’s still better to purchase resale in either HGVC if those are the resorts you desire most, purchase in the DRI trust if those are the resorts you desire most, or purchase resale in both HGVC or the DRI trust that fits your needs.

the reasoning is simple. The 6 month MAX booking window is the shortest of them all. If I purchase a DRI trust resale, I have a 13 month booking window in that trust. If I buy HGVC resale I have a 9 month booking window with all HGVC resorts. The resale purchase price for both would undoubtedly be LESS than buying retail AND I gain, at a minimum, a three month head start for reservations over all MAX members.

I see absolutely no advantage to making a retail purchase if the only reason is to gain access to the MAX program.

As to the validity of the salesman’s comments. I would almost bet that the buy in price will be less than $7,000 if you make a retail purchase after August 1. That statement is being made to get that sense of urgency for an impulse purchase today. I still find it amazing that Hilton believes people will pay $7,000 to join MAX with all it’s limitations, but we at TUG are informed consumers whereas the average timeshare purchaser is not, and likely doesn’t understand the resale market.

I had really high hopes for this program. With the information available at this time, it appears to be a bad deal for us. Perhaps with the official roll out we’ll see some truth the sales staff has been hiding so they can make a sale today rather than customers saying they’ll wait until everything is official.

I almost forgot. Did he say August of what year

The only downside to buying both sides is that you end up with two buckets of points versus one bucket that could be used for both. I know some DRI folks already own on the HGVC side and they are waiting to see who their two buckets will work together.

 

[Smclaugh99]

He did talk up the 30/30 travel option that you can see in the above graphic and the $700 OS credit. He also said that we would retain all of our Elite Premier benefits and get the Premier + benefits so for OS, it would be a $700 credit and the current 30% discount that we already get. I think he was full of it and you would not retain the Elite Premier benefits but move to the Max Tiers instead if we had joined.

I am/was Elite Premier and have taken advantage of the 30% OS discounts on 2-night stays in Orlando on multiple occasions. I upgraded one of my resale W57 deeds from gold to platinum for $15k (+ 25000 bonus points) in April that put me into Max (by default). My status is now Premier Plus, which would give me $700 OS credit each year. I don’t love that trade and feel it’s an inferior swap. But the most irritating thing is that as of now (and for the past couple months) I have NO elite discount or credit on OS (presumably until Max goes live). Wouldn’t it make sense to maintain the existing status until the program actually starts? Thanks HGVC!

Sean