4 seasons residence club forums

[benjaminb13]

4 seasons residence club forums- does anyone know of an existing forum for club members?
Id really like to know what they think-- and whether it is worth it to purchase.

 

[Kagehitokiri]

a couple of them are actually like TS - week based. those could be discussed here.

the rest are fractional ownership, which would be discussed in this forum >
http://tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=48

ive seen a fair number of owners on here.

 

[Bill4728]

The Four Season is a Hotel based TS and should be discussed on the hotel based board.

If you have a specific question about the new Four Seasons fractionals ask your question of the "non traditional TS board ". link


PS Moderators, Please leave this thread on the hotel board.

 

[Kagehitokiri]

uh, how many four seasons residence clubs are week based? i only know Aviara is.

speaking of Aviara, there is a 2 week rental over XMAS/NYE for ~$200/nt (2BR) and a resale for $11K (2BR) here right now > http://www.memberstrade.com/resorts/show/7

where it should be discussed depends on WHICH the OP is referring to...

 

[Steve]

Four Seasons Aviara and Four Seasons Scottsdale at Troon North are both weeks based timeshares. These are also the only Four Seasons resorts that exchange through II.

The other Four Seasons properties, including Jackson Hole and Punta Mita, are fractionals and do not exchange through any of the major exchange companies.

As for the question: "Is it worth it to own?" That's really a personal choice. I decided recently that it was worth it to me. It probably won't be for most people, though. The maintenance fees are extremely high and the Four Seasons system is the least flexible of any of the hotel based timeshares. So, a lot of people will not choose to own a Four Seasons timeshare. But, I love their resorts and decided that it was worth owning for me.

Steve

 

[Steamboat Bill]

The Four Season is a Hotel based TS and should be discussed on the hotel based board.

If you have a specific question about the new Four Seasons fractionals ask your question of the "non traditional TS board ". link

PS Moderators, Please leave this thread on the hotel board.

I was the moderator that moved it to the Non-Traditional Forum as I "thought" the OP was interested in a "fractional" property, not a timeshare. Either forum is fine with me, but I think will get more action on the other forum.

Here is some info from the Four Seasons web site.

Four Seasons Residence Clubs
As a fractional owner of a Four Seasons luxury vacation home, you pay only for the time you plan to spend in residence. Your spacious, fully furnished vacation home is set within an exclusive Four Seasons resort – with renowned dining and amenities just steps away. Personalised Owner Services help you make the most of your vacation – from the Concierge who arranges activities prior to your arrival to In-Residence Dining and housekeeping. Family photos and golf clubs can be waiting for you each time you return. Emphasizing flexibility and carefree enjoyment, fractional ownership simply makes sense for many owners.

Four Seasons Private Residences
Whether for your principal luxury residence or a special getaway that is always awaiting your arrival, Four Seasons Private Residences are wholly owned properties – designed and built to the Four Seasons standard. In sought-after city and resort locations, your luxury real estate includes the unrivalled advantage of access to Four Seasons dining, amenities and services.

 

[Steamboat Bill]

speaking of Aviara, there is a 2 week rental over XMAS/NYE for ~$200/nt (2BR) and a resale for $11K (2BR) here right now > http://www.memberstrade.com/resorts/show/7

That is am amazingly cheap rental and resale. I wonder why this is so cheap as the rental is lower than the annual dues and it is prime two weeks dates.

 

[Kagehitokiri]

no way to tell what week the resale is without registering (free)

 

[GregGH]

Hello Benjamin13

It would be well worth the $$ to join TUG and to be able to see the resort reviews. On the review there are a lot of members names you can ask questions of, or ask Steve or myself. And a search here for 'AVIARA' would provide you more info can you ever use.

I like Aviara to be part of 'non-traditional' only because most of the TUG'ers there are willing to pay more $4 for a quality vacation.

I see that Kagehitokiri mentioned 'Members Trade' -- it has been a while since I have been to their web site --they still seem to have a hard time attracting enough properties to get to critical mass ?? Don;t mean to hi-jack the thread (well, too much anyways )

Regards
Greg

 

[benjaminb13]

Steve
when you want to exchange 4 seasons with other Hotel based timeshares do you go thru II or private.

 

[Steve]

Steve
when you want to exchange 4 seasons with other Hotel based timeshares do you go thru II or private.

Hi Benjamin,

I would rather go through II. I'd split my week using the lock-off feature and then put in a "request first" exchange request. This is what I would/will do, but I have yet to exchange this week. I don't really plan to exchange it. I plan to use it at Four Seasons Aviara.

As for private exchanges, I personally am not fond of this route. I know that some TUGGERS have had great success with private exchanges. I just prefer the security and ease of using II.

Steve

 

[theworm]

Steve - if you don't mind me asking, did you buy Aviara direct, or resale? In either case, can you share latest pricing and recommendation for whom to buy from (if resale, whether direct from owner or through an approved broker)?

I've seen numbers as low as $25k (owner direct) and as high as the mid $40's (FS approved brokers).

We are contemplating a platinum annual 2bd and are somewhat leery of the resale market given some of the reviews we've read here.

Many thanks!

 

[Steve]

I bought resale. The premium for buying directly from Four Seasons is just too great to justify that. As long as you use a reputable closing company, there is nothing to fear from buying a resale week.

If you want a Four Seasons "approved" broker, then I would suggest Judi at Smart Choice Timeshare Realty. www.timeshareaz.com She is very nice to work with, honest, and knows the Four Seasons product extremely well.

If you are okay with buying from a non-approved broker, then you might check eBay, www.myresortnetwork.com , www.redweek.com , etc. There are some good bargains out there if you look for them. Sometimes you have to make an offer to several different sellers before you find someone who will accept. I am okay with that, but many people do not enjoy real estate negotiations. Personally, I would not pay more than $20,000 for an annual platinum week or $12,000 for an annual gold week.

Note: Four Seasons has ROFR (right of first refusal), but I am told that they very, very rarely exercise it. So I would not let that deter you from offering well below the asking price on a resale week.
Steve

 

[theworm]

Thanks - helpful and reassuring!

If you've dealt w/Judi on a transaction and I should let her know who's referring me, shoot me a PM. I'd be inclined to go through an "approved" broker for this one. Hopefully her pricing isn't as crazy high as Tri-West, which appears to be 2x owner-resale...

 

[benjaminb13]

For club Aviara - What weeks fall under gold andplat?
Thinking maybe eoy purchase - As was earlier stated maintenance fees are extremely high- maybe I can trade my Hyatt for 4 seasons at II to give it a try first.

 

[theworm]

For club Aviara - What weeks fall under gold andplat?
Thinking maybe eoy purchase - As was earlier stated maintenance fees are extremely high- maybe I can trade my Hyatt for 4 seasons at II to give it a try first.

Mid June to mid Oct are platinum; everything else is Gold.

I did a search for "Aviara" here and there is a wealth of information (except pricing, of course, until now)

The owner and trip reviews you can access (after joining) are worth a read, too.

 

[GregGH]

Aviara pricing

I did a search for "Aviara" here and there is a wealth of information (except pricing, of course, until now)
.

Ok -- knock yourself out on data. The attached Excel spreadsheet lists 2005 2006 & some 2007 re-sale data for Aviara. I stumbled across this data on the country tax dept web site - downloaded into MS Word and cleaned up and imported into excel.

One page has a chart of resale prices - you can't tell what it was -- but after a while you can tell what has Gold and what was Plat. time. EOY may be the lesser values.

No viruses - done on a Mac

ps - Tri West list hi but sell for less - bought our first week from them for 16.25k (include use of current year) Bought our 2nd week from redweek seller a few months afterwards for 13.9k & split closing. With these trying times you could buy cheaper from some owners that are in default - but for us - these prices are fair - given the market 3-6 months ago. Someone is always trying to grind the seller to the bone or lies to make them feel better... who knows... some day I will be that seller and hope I find someone like myself to sell to.

Enjoy
Greg H

 

[Steamboat Bill]

The resale prices are VERY reasonable, but the MF is high at $2,000.

Either way, it runs about $371 per night based upon 5% lost opportunity costs and MF. This is still a good deal for a 2 bedroom Four Seasons that probably would rent for $1,000 per night from the hotel.

If you love the location, this is the timesahre to buy.

 

[theworm]

Thanks for the data and additional commentary. It'd appear that, generally speaking, the $30k/$26k, $15k bands would represent about 1/2 to 2/3 of the developer-direct prices, yes?

I'll likely go through AZ or TriWest. For a 2bd Plat EY, for which TriWest seems to list in the $40's, I assume an offer to either AZ or Triwest in the $30k vicinity might be acceptable?

I know Steve mentioned he wouldn't spend > $20k for an annual platinum...was that for a 1bd, b/c it doesn't appear from the resale data that many (if any) annual plat 2bd have sold for that...

?

(thank you again for the advice)

 

[benjaminb13]

Steve, If I make an offer for eoy gold season at Aviara - Would it be wise not to offer over 8000 at Tri west?

 

[Steve]

The $20,000 figure I mentioned is for a 2 bedroom annual platinum week. You won't get one for that through an approved re-seller. I think you can find one for that from an individual owner...but it will take some effort. I am very cautious with what I spend for timeshares. Most people pay more...much more in some cases...even for resales.

If you go with an approved re-seller, I strongly suggest Smart Choice over Tri-West. Tri-West has very high prices to start with, they have outrageously high closing fees, and they are a bit smug. Don't count on any help in getting a good deal through them. I have not purchased through Smart Choice, but I have worked with them a couple of times and would not hesitate to purchase from them. Judi is very knowledgeable and professional from what I have seen.

Steve

 

[Steve]

Steve, If I make an offer for eoy gold season at Aviara - Would it be wise not to offer over 8000 at Tri west?

Benjamin,

I think it would be wise to not offer over $6000. Yes, if you are wondering, I know people who have purchased EOY Gold for even less than $6000. But it most certainly was not through Tri-West.

The Four Seasons "approved" broker situation is drastically over-rated. Four Seasons only has one other resort that you can actually trade into internally...and that is Scottsdale which is also available via II.

I looked into this very closely as I love Jackson Hole. I have stayed at the Four Seasons Resort in Jackson Hole (the hotel part)...and I would love to be able to exchange into the Residence Club at that resort. However, it's just not possible. I have spoken with several people at Four Seasons corporate...and they were not aware of ONE single occurence of someone trading into Jackson Hole using the Four Seasons internal exchange. Not ONE. In theory it is possible...in reality, it is not. I did my homework, and it was made quite clear to me that I should buy where I want to stay with Four Seasons...because the system is not set up for exchanging. Consequently, I decided that there was very little value in buying from a Four Seasons "approved" broker. Forget what the sales people tell you.

Steve

 

[theworm]

Yes, would opt for the AZ folks (Smart Choice) over TriWest for the reasons you state. Just mentioning TriWest primarily because they at least have prices (however inflated) listed whereas all of Smart Choices are just the nebulous "make offer" which is a blind shot.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is the loss from going owner-direct (rather than through an approved broker or developer direct) is the ability to trade for Four Seasons hotel points (probably worthless given the MY's and point devaluations) and the ability to internal-trade to Scottsdale (which could still be accomplished via II anyway, probably even with an AC, maybe?)...

 

[benjaminb13]

Does four seasons aloow an owner to bank and borrow points?

 

[Steve]

The ability to exchange for Four Seasons hotels is only available to those who buy directly from Four Seasons. It is not available if you purchase through an approved broker.

(This isn't a great loss, though, as the exchange rate is pretty poor. You give Four Seasons 7 nights in a huge 2 bedroom villa...and in return they give you a dollar credit equal to 4 or 5 nights in a hotel room.)

The only benefit of going through an approved broker versus a direct seller or unapproved broker is the ability to exchange internally for Scottsdale. That's it. Since Scottsdale can be exchanged into through II, this is not a huge advantage...certainly not worth paying Tri-West prices for IMHO.

Steve