[ 2023 ] Trouble - Marriott Grand Residence Tahoe [Management Agreement in Jeopardy?]

[igopogo]

Grand Residence is packed at peak times, but I think over the course of the year it probably has a lower abound occupancy rate than most resorts. How does this impact the benefit to MVC of buying quarters and putting them in the trust?

Honest question, I can’t wrap my head around whether this is a benefit or a thorn.

 

[Hindsite]

How does this impact the benefit to MVC of buying quarters and putting them in the trust?

Its just about points sales lure, same as for any resort that they put in the trust vs keeping it to rent out.

 

[craigd]

Grand Residence is packed at peak times, but I think over the course of the year it probably has a lower abound occupancy rate than most resorts. How does this impact the benefit to MVC of buying quarters and putting them in the trust?

Honest question, I can’t wrap my head around whether this is a benefit or a thorn.

If many of the weeks are unoccupied, then maybe not so great for MVC members because additional weeks into the Trust would just add low quality inventory and attendant MF. My personal bias came through in my assumptions to the extent I love Lake Tahoe area every day of the year.

 

[dioxide45]

Grand Residence is packed at peak times, but I think over the course of the year it probably has a lower abound occupancy rate than most resorts. How does this impact the benefit to MVC of buying quarters and putting them in the trust?

Honest question, I can’t wrap my head around whether this is a benefit or a thorn.

The maintenance fee per point on quarter shares is very low. It could help keep trust point maintenance fees somewhat stable, though unlikely to bring them down. Marriott is the largest owner of trust points and pays fees on each point they own.

 

[Dean]

I am on a steep learning curve, but I don't see how it follows that owners of an unbranded property that is available to MVC members are excluded from exchange as a matter of course. Does the outcome of Aspen suit (not evident from the linked article) answer that question? If so, maybe give us the epilogue as it may well be relevant to the evolution of GRC.

Given past experiences and other information I've seen over the years, I think we can be confident that owners there would lose their enrollment status AND their internal II exchange preference if they separate from MVC as management. They could even potentially move to RCI and lose II, join another system, etc.

 

[bizaro86]

Given past experiences and other information I've seen over the years, I think we can be confident that owners there would lose their enrollment status AND their internal II exchange preference if they separate from MVC as management. They could even potentially move to RCI and lose II, join another system, etc.

Absolutely. But whether the quarter shares already in the trust might stay there, is a different question. I'm inclined to think they'd leave them in. They are a net benefit to trust MF and would likely be hard to sell.

 

[dioxide45]

Absolutely. But whether the quarter shares already in the trust might stay there, is a different question. I'm inclined to think they'd leave them in. They are a net benefit to trust MF and would likely be hard to sell.

That is what happened with the Hyatt in Aspen. They left intervals in the Hyatt Points program trust and Hyatt owners can still book Aspen, but Aspen owners just can't book other Hyatt properties.

 

[Dean]

Absolutely. But whether the quarter shares already in the trust might stay there, is a different question. I'm inclined to think they'd leave them in. They are a net benefit to trust MF and would likely be hard to sell.

Possibly like Vail, where there are 2 different check ins. Or they could strong arm the board to make any changes they felt necessary.

 

[craigd]

You might want to read up on Grand Aspen leaving Hyatt Residence Club. GRC owners, if no longer affiliated with MVW, would most likely be in a similar situation. If the Trust owns some deeds, the Exchange Company may have availability for points reservations, but GRC deeded owners would no longer have the option to elect.

Hyatt Grand Aspen owners file suit against Marriott/Interal/etc

interesting reading... https://www.aspentimes.com/news/local/suit-hyatt-grand-aspen-timeshares-dropped-in-value/

tugbbs.com

Thank you very much for directing me to the Grand Aspen. I have since done the homework you prescribed, and it was informative.

The data I am now looking for may well already be somewhere in this forum (also publicly available but it will take me hours), but if anyone has the following information handy, your publishing it here would be very much appreciated:

(1) What percentage of the VOI at this property (GRCLT) is held by the MVCTrust?

(2) How many GRCLT owners remain who purchased their VOI from the developer without any accompanying points purchase?

Also, any insight on the the following thoughts would likewise be appreciated:

(1) It appears that the consensus of this forum is that the MVC delivers an excellent end-user experience, but the retail price makes no sense when evaluated on the fundamental economics.

(2) This forum thinks that those who have the wealth to buy at current prices also have the financial management acumen to see that the value proposition is not there.

(3) Does anyone think that a prospect who does not have the income level to afford MVC current offerings, but who does have an otherwise excellent credit rating will go for the current offerings?

I cannot wrap my head around who is financing these VOI purchases at the rates MVW offers. It seems that everyone agrees the end-user experience is akin to driving a BMW, but how many BMW consumers pay MSRP via financing at 14%?

 

[WBP]

Thank you very much for directing me to the Grand Aspen. I have since done the homework you prescribed, and it was informative.

The data I am now looking for may well already be somewhere in this forum (also publicly available but it will take me hours), but if anyone has the following information handy, your publishing it here would be very much appreciated:

(1) What percentage of the VOI at this property (GRCLT) is held by the MVCTrust?

(2) How many GRCLT owners remain who purchased their VOI from the developer without any accompanying points purchase?

Also, any insight on the the following thoughts would likewise be appreciated:

(1) It appears that the consensus of this forum is that the MVC delivers an excellent end-user experience, but the retail price makes no sense when evaluated on the fundamental economics.

(2) This forum not only thinks that those who have the wealth to buy at current prices also have the financial management acumen to see that the value proposition is not there.

(3) Does anyone think that a prospect who does not have the income level to afford MVC current offerings, but who does have an otherwise excellent credit rating will go for the current offerings?

I cannot wrap my head around who is financing these VOI purchases at the rates MVW offers. It seems that everyone agrees the end-user experience is akin to driving a BMW, but how many BMW consumers pay MSRP via financing at 14%?

If my memory is right, more than half of the fractional interests in the Grand Residence Club, Lake Tahoe, were sold, pre-construction, by the developer (American Skiing Company) to what was initially known as Grand Summit Lodge, Heavenly Valley.

The Grand Summit Lodge, Heavenly Valley owners were later absorbed by Marriott Grand Residence Club. The Crown Jewel of the Marriott Grand Residence Club is 47 Park Street, London, England.

Official Site | 47 Park Street - Grand Residences by Marriott | Mayfair, London

Experience the Official 47 Park Street, Grand Residences by Marriott, an alternative to second home ownership in London, with the service of a luxury hotel.

www.47parkstreet.com

Scott Oldakowski, the architect of the Grand Summit Lodge, quarter share model, for the American Skiing Company, with whom I worked for many years, may still be at Marriott Vacations Worldwide.

 

[Hindsite]

Also, any insight on the the following thoughts would likewise be appreciated:

(1) It appears that the consensus of this forum is that the MVC delivers an excellent end-user experience, but the retail price makes no sense when evaluated on the fundamental economics.

Lets go with saying the "list price" makes no sense, particularly when you know that MVC does sell the product, in several forms, that gets very close to being at least an acceptable price, if not the "best possible" price across the market as a whole. It is quite understandable that (possibly many) people don't want to spend the time understanding the resale market to the point where they don't feel is represents a risk to them in using it. For those people there are MVC, Sheraton and Westin offerings that can be bought at a price point that can be viable if used well over a 10 year period, when compared to the open market cost of similar accommodation.