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2020 Maintenace and should I give up my timeshare?

joestein

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I just got my maintenance statement from Wyndham.

I own a 161K points at Seawatch Plantation and 126K EOY points at Governors Green.

The total maintenance plus program fee is going to be $1700 for 2020.

The cost per 1K is around 6.5 for Seawatch and 7.5 for Governors Green. I know this is pretty high maintance.

Can I still give it back this year and not have to pay maintenance or is it too late?

I feel that the cost has exceeded the benefit at this point.

Joe
 

dgalati

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I just got my maintenance statement from Wyndham.

I own a 161K points at Seawatch Plantation and 126K EOY points at Governors Green.

The total maintenance plus program fee is going to be $1700 for 2020.

The cost per 1K is around 6.5 for Seawatch and 7.5 for Governors Green. I know this is pretty high maintenance.

Can I still give it back this year and not have to pay maintenance or is it too late?

I feel that the cost has exceeded the benefit at this point.

Joe
Call Ovations to verify if they will take back these two deeds. Wyndham allows you to use current use year points before giving back also. You have to have completed travel before giving back or reservation can be canceled. You can not use future use year points unless you pay $12/1000 for future use year points used.
 

bendadin

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Developer or resale?
 

bendadin

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Governor's Green: Is it even or odd? They had told me that they take the points from the next use year so an even year had to be given back in an odd year and vice versa. However, I have seen that they have taken points from the immediate use year so all bets are off when it comes to Wyndham.

Plus with that EOY, it only counts as half each year for the program fee, so 161k plus 63k is a bit short of the minimum so your minimum program fee of $160 kicks it up just a bit.

Personally, I would give back Governor's Green and not Seawatch (although I am personally not a fan of owning on the Atlantic.) If you use Ovations for both of them, you will be locked out of future ownership in Wyndham.
 
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If you call about Ovations, please ask about the Limited Edition program. That's when Wyndham will give you 3 single use years of points that are equivalent to the deed value they take back. I don't know if they'll offer you that since they are resale points, but it sure won't hurt to ask. I doubt if they will mention it to you. All they can they can say is no.
 

dgalati

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If you call about Ovations, please ask about the Limited Edition program. That's when Wyndham will give you 3 single use years of points that are equivalent to the deed value they take back. I don't know if they'll offer you that since they are resale points, but it sure won't hurt to ask. I doubt if they will mention it to you. All they can they can say is no.
They are resale deeds and do not qualify foy 3 years of free use.
 

dgalati

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Governor's Green: Is it even or odd? They had told me that they take the points from the next use year so an even year had to be given back in an odd year and vice versa. However, I have seen that they have taken points from the immediate use year so all bets are off when it comes to Wyndham.

Plus with that EOY, it only counts as half each year for the program fee, so 161k plus 63k is a bit short of the minimum so your minimum program fee of $160 kicks it up just a bit.

Personally, I would give back Governor's Green and not Seawatch (although I am personally not a fan of owning on the Atlantic.) If you use Ovations for both of them, you will be locked out of future ownership in Wyndham.
Wyndham will take back a EOY deed in the current use year and you can current use year points before giving back. Personally I would give back everything and rent from a VIP. You can rent for $6/1000 at 13 months out which is less then your paying in maintenance fees. If your travel plans are flexible rent in the 60 day discount window. Most VIP owners will pass along the 50% discount. The rental will cost 50% less then it will cost you to pay maintenance fees.
 
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SNA27

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Which VIP will rent you 13 months out for $6/1000? Unless he's your uncle!;) Keep dreaming! I want the max I can get in the discount window! I am averaging $19/1000 so far! All in the discount window!

The market decides the price, not the cost!
 
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dgalati

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Which VIP will rent you 13 months out for $6/1000? Unless he's your uncle!;) Keep dreaming! I want the max I can get in the discount window! I am averaging $19/1000 so far! All in the discount window!

The market decides the price, not the cost!
Many VIP owners will pass along the 50% discount just to cover their maintenance fees. Ask @chapjim
 

joestein

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I didnt think that you could give back just one contract. Also, if i give back my contacts I am not allowed to own Wyndham ever again?

I was planning on calling tomorrow morning.
 

dgalati

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I didnt think that you could give back just one contract. Also, if i give back my contacts I am not allowed to own Wyndham ever again?

I was planning on calling tomorrow morning.
You can give one or all back to Wyndham. I can not believe Wyndham can prevent you from owning again if you use Ovations. I call BS on that statement.
 
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SNA27

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Many VIP owners will pass along the 50% discount just to cover their maintenance fees. Ask @chapjim
...

Example: I've worked Wyndham Panama City Beach pretty hard this January. I know it's dead winter and PCB can be decent or very cold in January. But if someone is content reading on the balcony in a hoodie, it's a good place to be. A lot of the attractions and some restaurants will be closed but a lot won't be. I've booked nine weeks at PCB in January. I booked a two-week reservation from January 11-25 back in mid-November and offered it to a customer in Texas. I sent him that guest confirmation on November 15. Then just today, I sold him the week starting January 25 and the week starting January 4 so he'll be there for four weeks in a 2BR Presidential unit, all upgraded and for way less than $100/night.

An hour ago, I booked a 2BR Presidential unit at PCB from January 18-25 for 24,500 points -- an upgrade from a lower level studio. There are some bargains out there but they take work to find.

Based on what @chapjim said above and making educated guesses about the numbers involved, $700/24.5 ~= $29/1000. Ok, he said 'Way less'!
Let's assume your $6 number. Quick math, he rented the whole week at PCB for $140! Absurd! Even Motel 6 would charge at least $210!

Jim can supply the actual numbers and snap you out of your $6 reverie!:)

Let me give you a number, $20/1000 minimum even during the discount period! That's where it makes sense!

@dgalati, you're on this Rent-from-VIP trip, you should start a Renters' Workshop! Get calculators that work in the real world, though!:D
 
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jwalk03

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I have rented for less than $6/1000 and have also rented for more than $6/1000. It just depends on the demand for the location and weeks you are trying to get. I have gotten free upgrades and also had some additional discounts passed on (though not typically a full 50%, which is understandable) Renting can be most certainly be beneficial to the owner and the guest, you just have to reach a mutually beneficial price.
 

dgalati

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I have rented for less than $6/1000 and have also rented for more than $6/1000. It just depends on the demand for the location and weeks you are trying to get. I have gotten free upgrades and also had some additional discounts passed on (though not typically a full 50%, which is understandable) Renting can be most certainly be beneficial to the owner and the guest, you just have to reach a mutually beneficial price.
Yes finally someone who sees the value for both sides. I agree It just depends on the demand for the location and weeks you are trying to get. You have to be flexible with your plans. If you have to have a certain week at a resort during a high demand holiday this may not work for you. I have been able to rent Clearwater on a 4th of July weekend, Midtown 45 Memorial day weekend and the weekend after the 4th of July at Chicago Grand . All were booked in the 60 day and at a 50% discount over using my own points and paying the maintenance fees at $4.73/1000
 

joestein

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I called this morning. They said the process will take 3 - 4 months and I will receive papers that I have to notarize and send back. You must pay maintenance until the process is over.

As I usually pay maintenance annually, I switched to monthly, this way I only pay 3 or 4 payments of $141 rather than $1700.

They verified that you can not own Wyndham again, however, you can get around that easy by using a trust.


Now I need to find out about other TS to own that might be more cost effective that will allow me to trade. I have thought about Massanutten as I like going there. Also interested in going to Aruba.
 

Eric B

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@joestein, I own at Massanutten and have been happy with the trading power in RCI points per MF$, so would recommend it for that reason. There’s also the trading power boost program they historically do, giving owners a stub week in RCI weeks for advance payment of MFs (no guarantee that will keep happening, but it’s been ongoing for a long time). It’s simple to get an ownership there free or cheap; my preference when we go there is the Mountainside Villas, which you can get resale from listings on their owners newsletters. The one downside to Massanutten is that all of the ownerships there except Mountainside Villas trade only with RCI; MV is dual-affiliated with II.

If you are interested in the flexibility of using II, you might look into some of the Williamsburg resorts that are also dual-affiliated like the Colonies or Williamsburg Plantation. MF for a 4 BR LO is comparable to one at Massanutten and a bit less than a 2 BR MV, they’re rated as premier resorts (MV is select, which is a step lower), and they permit pets in some buildings. Those two are also part of Vacation Villages, which owns Massanutten, so you can get similar RCI benefits like the current extra vacation certificate to use at other VV resorts for just the exchange fee. They’re worth looking at as well, but do your homework and avoid the low winter season ones.
 

joestein

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@joestein, I own at Massanutten and have been happy with the trading power in RCI points per MF$, so would recommend it for that reason. There’s also the trading power boost program they historically do, giving owners a stub week in RCI weeks for advance payment of MFs (no guarantee that will keep happening, but it’s been ongoing for a long time). It’s simple to get an ownership there free or cheap; my preference when we go there is the Mountainside Villas, which you can get resale from listings on their owners newsletters. The one downside to Massanutten is that all of the ownerships there except Mountainside Villas trade only with RCI; MV is dual-affiliated with II.

If you are interested in the flexibility of using II, you might look into some of the Williamsburg resorts that are also dual-affiliated like the Colonies or Williamsburg Plantation. MF for a 4 BR LO is comparable to one at Massanutten and a bit less than a 2 BR MV, they’re rated as premier resorts (MV is select, which is a step lower), and they permit pets in some buildings. Those two are also part of Vacation Villages, which owns Massanutten, so you can get similar RCI benefits like the current extra vacation certificate to use at other VV resorts for just the exchange fee. They’re worth looking at as well, but do your homework and avoid the low winter season ones.

Thanks, I think I will try to buy somewhere that I actually want to go to as well as use for trading. I have no urge to go to Williamsburg.
 

SNA27

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Yes finally someone who sees the value for both sides. I agree It just depends on the demand for the location and weeks you are trying to get. You have to be flexible with your plans. If you have to have a certain week at a resort during a high demand holiday this may not work for you. I have been able to rent Clearwater on a 4th of July weekend, Midtown 45 Memorial day weekend and the weekend after the 4th of July at Chicago Grand . All were booked in the 60 day and at a 50% discount over using my own points and paying the maintenance fees at $4.73/1000
That's what I have been saying. The market (demand/supply) determines the price and NOT the MF costs or some arbitrary $6/1000 derived from some average MF.

Moreover, points are points just as dollars are dollars. There is no such thing as 'discounted' points just as there is no such thing as discounted dollars. It's just that the bookings cost less during the discount period just as items cost less during a sale.

Price/1000 remains the same. If a room costs 20,000 points and if you get it for $120 or it costs 10,000 points and you get it for $60, it's still $6/1000. There is no 50% discount to pass along.
But if the market price for the room is $120 and you're willing to pay it, the owner makes $12/1000 by booking it the during the discount window. Just math!

Does the discount affect the market price? Of course, it does as in any rational market! But if demand outstrips supply, discount's influence on the market price diminishes. So, a rational seller would pick locations that are in high demand! Anyway, that's the theory. Ymmv!
 
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joestein

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Just an update.... I got my paperwork from Wyndham Ovations yesterday. I am signing it and getting it notarized today and will be sending it back via fed ex. I will keep everybody updated.
 

Braindead

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That's what I have been saying. The market (demand/supply) determines the price and NOT the MF costs or some arbitrary $6/1000 derived from some average MF.

Moreover, points are points just as dollars are dollars. There is no such thing as 'discounted' points just as there is no such thing as discounted dollars. It's just that the bookings cost less during the discount period just as items cost less during a sale.

Price/1000 remains the same. If a room costs 20,000 points and if you get it for $120 or it costs 10,000 points and you get it for $60, it's still $6/1000. There is no 50% discount to pass along.
But if the market price for the room is $120 and you're willing to pay it, the owner makes $12/1000 by booking it the during the discount window. Just math!

Does the discount affect the market price? Of course, it does as in any rational market! But if demand outstrips supply, discount's influence on the market price diminishes. So, a rational seller would pick locations that are in high demand! Anyway, that's the theory. Ymmv!
Sorry but that is just factually wrong.
If an owner makes a reservation that equates to $300 a night with CWA points
A Canterbury owner makes that exact same reservation but it only cost them the equivalent of $210 a night
Why? Canterbury MFs are $3 per 1k points less than CWA MFs,
That’s why low MF resale contracts are higher priced than high MF contracts on the resale market
 

Eric B

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Sorry but that is just factually wrong.
If an owner makes a reservation that equates to $300 a night with CWA points
A Canterbury owner makes that exact same reservation but it only cost them the equivalent of $210 a night
Why? Canterbury MFs are $3 per 1k points less than CWA MFs,
That’s why low MF resale contracts are higher priced than high MF contracts on the resale market
It’s probably somewhere in between; low MF resale contracts are more desirable because they can be used to vacation for lower costs, which makes demand for them higher (see bids on eBay), which results in higher prices. It also effects the supply side. It’s not a direct effect on price, but instead on willingness to buy or sell for the price.
 

Braindead

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The market (demand/supply) determines the price and NOT the MF costs

Moreover, points are points just as dollars are dollars.
It’s probably somewhere in between; low MF resale contracts are more desirable because they can be used to vacation for lower costs, which makes demand for them higher (see bids on eBay), which results in higher prices. It also effects the supply side. It’s not a direct effect on price, but instead on willingness to buy or sell for the price.
Maybe I’m being to harsh & need to be quiet. I just didn’t think those two statements are factually correct
 

Eric B

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Maybe I’m being to harsh & need to be quiet. I just didn’t think those two statements are factually correct
Absolutely not; you made a good point. I just think it’s more gray than black & white most of the time.
 

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I just got my maintenance statement from Wyndham.

I own a 161K points at Seawatch Plantation and 126K EOY points at Governors Green.

The total maintenance plus program fee is going to be $1700 for 2020.

The cost per 1K is around 6.5 for Seawatch and 7.5 for Governors Green. I know this is pretty high maintance.

Can I still give it back this year and not have to pay maintenance or is it too late?

I feel that the cost has exceeded the benefit at this point.

Joe
I am at the same situation as you are. I think giving it back far exceeded the benefits nowadays. Lots of bargain online now, even renting marriotts villas are almost the same amount of maintenance fee without the hassle of whether to go to your own villa or not every year. I found some are even renting the villas at a bargain.
I was advised that you need to contact european.services@vacationclub.com. Or you can phone owners for help on 00 0800 8855 6677.
Could be happy to hear from you how you get on
 
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