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[2018] Marriott Ko Olina - Rooms Control Villa Prioritization

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Dean

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Per the original post, Legacy owners using Legacy points are slotted below MKO weeks owners/Trust point users.
I'd point out that just because this was communicated doesn't mean it's actually done this way. Room assigners often uses their own version. The "official" Marriott direction is far simpler and more condensed than this.

The question for me then, would be is there any limit at all to this?
Should a DC Trust member, who may perhaps own just the minimum number of points and booking just 1 or 2 days be on the same level for placement purposes as a home weeks owner booking 1 or perhaps more weeks?
For me, that would not be fair.
That's why I suggested they don't look or know a lot of the info posted and even if they did, I doubt they actually put it into practice, just too complicated. For me personally I'd need a lot of data points before I believed some of the nuances posted were reality.
 
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SueDonJ

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Here's an even smaller minority opinion: All owners should be treated equally, and all owners should be free to assign their usage, along with all the attendant rights of ownership, to anyone they want in exchange for whatever they want. So if I use my home week, or let my kids use it, or let my neighbor use it, or rent it to my uncle, or trade it through II, TUG or Redweek, all rights should transfer, including view category and priority. The ownership rights shouldn't go away (and be stolen by Marriott) simply because you don't personally stay there. This gives the owner full value in gifting, renting or trading their week.

Either use a random system, lottery, or rotation to give the best views within category.

I know this will never happen, and probably no one agrees, but its still my opinion with respect to property rights in general.

Ownership rights to view types aren't taken away in any of the examples you gave except II exchanges, and other than that I actually don't disagree with you as far as random/lottery/rotational placements. In fact I prefer the rotational placement system that my resorts use, and wouldn't at all mind if a lottery system was used during the highest/holiday-demand periods for BOTH availability and unit placement. The reason I'm okay with manipulating II exchanges differently (other than it's an II rule, I mean) is because that gives the rooms controllers some wiggle room to reward status or other factors within the exchange pool.

In the simplest example say that you have 2 same-size units available to II exchangers, 1 oceanfront and 1 gardenview, because 2 owners deposited their Weeks to II, and, those 2 units are matched to 2 other Marriott owners who deposited same-size units from other resorts. The unit view type makes absolutely no difference in the exchange value of what's deposited to II or what gets matched in II, but they do consider the dates of deposit and requests, i.e. the further out you deposit and the further out you request a match, the better your chance at success. Now say I deposit a Barony oceanfront and request a Maui Ocean Club as far out as possible which gets matched to a MOC gardenview immediately because that owner also deposited as far out as possible, and I get the II confirmation with the code that indicates an MOC gardenview. Then a month later the same thing happens in reverse with a new request matching newly-deposited inventory, resulting in a Barony gardenview owner getting matched to an MOC unit coded as oceanfront.

Two deposits and two matches of two different view type but same-size units, with all other ownership factors being equal. But because of the timing of deposits and requests the person, me!, who deposited the oceanfront view type at an earlier date gets the gardenview confirmation while the later-deposited oceanfront confirmation goes to the person who later deposited a gardenview unit. The fact that at check-in Marriott can then manipulate those two exchanges to give the person, ME!, who deposited earliest the "better" unit - which also coincidentally matches the view type that I deposited - is a good thing!

You're right in that inventory allocation is never this simple. My example leaves no room, for one thing, for the deposits which are made but never matched to other owners and thereby can be manipulated by Marriott with any other inventory available for cash guests. Thus, Marriott can (and does, we assume!) cherry-pick the "better" oceanfront units for cash stays leaving the "lesser" gardenview units for II exchangers. Add in the metric that the individual resorts are all over the map with how they choose to reward Destination Club status, Marriott Rewards status, etc. and there's even more room for manipulation. But on the whole, despite knowing that Marriott's end game is to enrich themselves before the owners, if in the simplest examples I may benefit from their manipulation, that's okay with me. It's better than always being the underdog, anyway. ;)

For the record, despite owning multiple high-value Weeks that convert to Chairman's Club DC status and being Lifetime Plat MR Rewards status (which I say not to brag but to prove a point,) I don't have nearly as much success with unit placement as many TUGgers report. Never have and don't expect I ever will. I fill out the request forms, I'm polite when I talk to reps, at check-in I offer to wait hours for a better unit to become available ... none of it works. I've decided to believe that the people who think it's a breeze to ask for and get their desired unit placement are slipping twenties into the pockets of front desk staff, and I just can't bring myself to do that. Yet.
 
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BocaBoy

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For placement purposes I've always believed that DC Trust Members using Trust Points to book into Trust-conveyed intervals should absolutely be on the same level as Weeks Owners using their owned Weeks. :)
I could not disagree more with this statement. The weeks owner has in nearly all cases made a much greater commitment, financial and otherwise, to the particular resort.
 

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Here's an even smaller minority opinion: All owners should be treated equally, and all owners should be free to assign their usage, along with all the attendant rights of ownership, to anyone they want in exchange for whatever they want. So if I use my home week, or let my kids use it, or let my neighbor use it, or rent it to my uncle, or trade it through II, TUG or Redweek, all rights should transfer, including view category and priority. The ownership rights shouldn't go away (and be stolen by Marriott) simply because you don't personally stay there. This gives the owner full value in gifting, renting or trading their week.

Either use a random system, lottery, or rotation to give the best views within category.

I know this will never happen, and probably no one agrees, but its still my opinion with respect to property rights in general.
I agree with you and it used to be that way when almost all developers sold fixed week/units but they went over to the floating system so that the inventory could be more controlled by the resort developers. In this case, they can also reward their most loyal hotel guests by letting them use 1, 2 or even 3 bedroom condos instead of only hotel rooms or suites.

It also made it easier to sell the timeshare project faster while promising flexibility to the timeshare buyers but there is too much competition for the most popular dates and locations, size of units and views to make everyone happy.
 

SueDonJ

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I could not disagree more with this statement. The weeks owner has in nearly all cases made a much greater commitment, financial and otherwise, to the particular resort.

No doubt we'll always disagree about this but I still have to ask, how so? Certainly not in direct purchase prices for like intervals because in most cases it's more costly to buy the amount of DC Points that are required to book an interval purchased as a Week. Considering then the MF's, the DC Trust is the "owner" of the Weeks which are conveyed to it and must pay MF's for each Week conveyed to it based on the same Operating Budget that the Weeks Owners are subject to, and the same for any Special Assessments. Voting rights? The DC Trustee presumably has rights to vote in resort matters for the Weeks conveyed to it (although do we know if that's on a one Week/one Vote basis or one Resort/one Vote?) The Trust shouldn't be voting for anything that takes value away from the condition and desirability of any resort, considering that a DC Trust Member who comes away from a poor onsite experience leaves the system altogether which impacts the entire portfolio, as opposed to a single Week Owner giving up his ownership and impacting only his home resort.

The financial obligations of Weeks Owners and Trust Members (via the Trustee) aren't dissimilar for each same interval. So I really would like to understand why you say that "otherwise" the Weeks Owners have more of a stake? In my view every owner, Weeks or Trustee, has the same interest in securing the value of the individual resorts whether in terms of financial or usage-related issues.
 

bazzap

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No doubt we'll always disagree about this but I still have to ask, how so? Certainly not in direct purchase prices for like intervals because in most cases it's more costly to buy the amount of DC Points that are required to book an interval purchased as a Week. Considering then the MF's, the DC Trust is the "owner" of the Weeks which are conveyed to it and must pay MF's for each Week conveyed to it based on the same Operating Budget that the Weeks Owners are subject to, and the same for any Special Assessments. Voting rights? The DC Trustee presumably has rights to vote in resort matters for the Weeks conveyed to it (although do we know if that's on a one Week/one Vote basis or one Resort/one Vote?) The Trust shouldn't be voting for anything that takes value away from the condition and desirability of any resort, considering that a DC Trust Member who comes away from a poor onsite experience leaves the system altogether which impacts the entire portfolio, as opposed to a single Week Owner giving up his ownership and impacting only his home resort.

The financial obligations of Weeks Owners and Trust Members (via the Trustee) aren't dissimilar for each same interval. So I really would like to understand why you say that "otherwise" the Weeks Owners have more of a stake? In my view every owner, Weeks or Trustee, has the same interest in securing the value of the individual resorts whether in terms of financial or usage-related issues.
Putting aside for a moment that we may not be talking about “like intervals”, as week’s owners will always be staying for 1 week or more whereas point’s owners may be staying for as little as 1 day or more:-
Week’s owners staying at their home resort have invested 100% of their money and mostly their time and commitment in that one resort
Point’s owners have invested their money and their time and commitment spread across some 50+ resorts, which should certainly be valued and rewarded but can’t be directly comparable when looking at an individual resort.
 

Fasttr

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Oddly enough, as a Trust points owner, my gut reaction is to fall on the side of bazzap and others who feel that weeks owners using their owned week should receive first priority on room assignments. That said, I do hear what Sue is saying, in that the Trust is just as much an owner of the weeks that it owns, as is an individual who owns a week, and as such, why should that week that the Trust owns not be treated at the same high priority level for room assignments. Certainly an interesting debate.
 

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Updates from MKO Rooms Control:
Lastly, after lookin at the MKO Building Views, I realized the ground floor in the 3BR OV stack, is actually a 2BR OV unit because they lose the efficiency portion due to the hallway entrance.

View attachment 5743

Great Map! I have never seen this map. It looks like most 2 bedroom oceanview units are pretty good.
 

Jayco29D

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Here's an even smaller minority opinion: All owners should be treated equally, and all owners should be free to assign their usage, along with all the attendant rights of ownership, to anyone they want in exchange for whatever they want. So if I use my home week, or let my kids use it, or let my neighbor use it, or rent it to my uncle, or trade it through II, TUG or Redweek, all rights should transfer, including view category and priority. The ownership rights shouldn't go away (and be stolen by Marriott) simply because you don't personally stay there. This gives the owner full value in gifting, renting or trading their week.

Either use a random system, lottery, or rotation to give the best views within category.

I know this will never happen, and probably no one agrees, but its still my opinion with respect to property rights in general.

I think giving owners priority and then using the date stamp make sense for assigning views. That seems to give owners using their own unit the highest priority. Personally, I wish II would have a way for us to pick our view when exchanging even if it costs an extra fee for that. I hate the idea of exchanging my ocean view and oceanfront units and not knowing what view I will get. II has a fee for upgrading room size so why not have a fee for guaranteeing a view type?
 

SueDonJ

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Oddly enough, as a Trust points owner, my gut reaction is to fall on the side of bazzap and others who feel that weeks owners using their owned week should receive first priority on room assignments. That said, I do hear what Sue is saying, in that the Trust is just as much an owner of the weeks that it owns, as is an individual who owns a week, and as such, why should that week that the Trust owns not be treated at the same high priority level for room assignments. Certainly an interesting debate.

Yes, so odd, considering you own Trust Points and I don't!

Really the ONLY thing that gives me pause is the interval origination thing with respect to reservations. I think MVW does a disservice to Trust Members by not making it perfectly clear to the onsite resort staff when Trust Points are being used to book Trust-conveyed intervals. If that were to happen then it would be easier for Trust Members to plead their case for equal placement priority, easier for the resort staff to justify giving them that priority, and I hope easier for Weeks Owners to understand that position.
 
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Dean

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Yes, so odd, considering you own Trust Points and I don't!

Really the ONLY thing that gives me pause is the interval origination thing with respect to reservations. I think MVW does a disservice to Trust Members by not making it perfectly clear to the onsite resort staff when Trust Points are being used to book Trust-conveyed intervals. If that were to happen then it would be easier for Trust Members to plead their case for equal placement priority, easier for the resort staff to justify giving them that priority, and I hope easier for Weeks Owners to understand that position.
Maybe I'm missing your point. Are you saying book the actual physical units in the trust specifically? If so you'd have 3 buckets of inventory, owned weeks, Trust Inventory, and enrolled converted to weeks. I doubt they can or will differentiate between reservations with trust vs DC points and given the floating nature of most resorts, I doubt they can book specific villa inventory. For a fixed week option it might be possible but there are few of those that would apply and even fewer where the owner would be likely to take DC points. Some systems do consistently track the underlying week and villa but I don't think Marriott does or even feasibly can with their current setup.
 

SueDonJ

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Maybe I'm missing your point. Are you saying book the actual physical units in the trust specifically? If so you'd have 3 buckets of inventory, owned weeks, Trust Inventory, and enrolled converted to weeks. I doubt they can or will differentiate between reservations with trust vs DC points and given the floating nature of most resorts, I doubt they can book specific villa inventory. For a fixed week option it might be possible but there are few of those that would apply and even fewer where the owner would be likely to take DC points. Some systems do consistently track the underlying week and villa but I don't think Marriott does or even feasibly can with their current setup.

No, not booking the specific units that were conveyed and then denoting them as specifically fixed on reservation confirmations, but somehow a notation that a Trust Member has used Trust Points to book a reservation that conforms to an interval conveyed to the Trust. It would effectively result in the onsite resort staff being able to differentiate between Trust-conveyed inventory and DC Exchange Company inventory (from enrolled/converted Weeks,) despite the majority of DC inventory being manipulated through the DC Exchange Company. Done that way the staff would be aware of and be able to equally prioritize at the top Weeks Owners and Trust Members using Trust-conveyed intervals, then next prioritizing the Trust or Exchange Members using non-Trust-conveyed DC intervals as internal exchanges, and next II exchanges.

I do think that MVW has to track all inventory completely even if only to be able to provide a defense when charged with mismanagement, but it's understandable that each and every metric isn't disclosed at each and every point from origination to usage. That would be an avalanche of info for the onsite staff who have better things to do than mine through hundreds of data fields. I just want this one to be available to them, though. :)
 
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Dean

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No, not booking the specific units that were conveyed and then denoting them as specifically fixed on reservation confirmations, but somehow a notation that a Trust Member has used Trust Points to book a reservation that conforms to an interval conveyed to the Trust. It would effectively result in the onsite resort staff being able to differentiate between Trust-conveyed inventory and DC Exchange Company inventory (from enrolled/converted Weeks,) despite the majority of DC inventory being manipulated through the DC Exchange Company. Done that way the staff would be aware of and be able to equally prioritize at the top Weeks Owners and Trust Members using Trust-conveyed intervals, then next prioritizing the Trust or Exchange Members using non-Trust-conveyed DC intervals as internal exchanges, and next II exchanges.

I do think that MVW has to track all inventory completely even if only to be able to provide a defense when charged with mismanagement, but it's understandable that each and every metric isn't disclosed at each and every point from origination to usage. That would be an avalanche of info for the onsite staff who have better things to do than mine through hundreds of data fields. I just want this one to be available to them, though. :)
Susan, I'm still having a little trouble following your thoughts. Here's my understanding of how it's done. They do track what dates and how many units/types are available for points vs weeks, they have to else they could oversell it. After that there's relatively little distinction between DC points and Trust points and IMO there should be little distinction. Are you suggesting to divide up the resort by Trust and Weeks (inc DC points) and allow & track them separately? If so I don't think that's feasible on the villa assignment front. Plus you'd have to prevent commingling of trust/DC points or at least downgrade or upgrade one or the other. My view of how the villa assignments priorities should be is owner using owned week, ALL points users, then II Marriott exchanges, cash guests/previews, then other exchangers all within reserved category. Pretty close to the OP. I do not believe it reasonable to divide it up further by drawing lines between trust/DC points or by giving owners at that resort a leg up when no using their owned weeks. Many of the resorts treat all points reservations as exchanges and therefore treat points reservations and Marriott to Marriott II exchanges the same and while I can see that, I do think there's a difference between internal and external. And yes, I do see II exchanges as external given the current setup unlike before the points came onboard.
 

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I think the reality of the situation is that the room controllers try their best to keep all owners happy, but room assignments have become a nightmare with the points system. With short/long stays, weekday checkins, multiple week stays, points combinations (trust & exchange), and combined reservations (II plus points stay), it is virtually impossible to apply any structured hierarchy except during periods where a majority of guests are home resort owners. Additionally, now II doesn't even identify MVC exchangers vs non-MVC exchangers. I am fortunate to be Chairman level and tend to travel to resort during the non-peak weeks. I try to call or email my preferences in advance and provide my priority list. If I'm staying in a popular season, I request locations in buildings that are less popular. In most cases, we have been very happy with our villa placements regardless with the method used for our stay.

I find it interesting that they are differentiating trust point vs exchange point reservations. My stays have always involved a combination of the two, so I don't know how they can keep things straight.
 

Fasttr

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I find it interesting that they are differentiating trust point vs exchange point reservations. My stays have always involved a combination of the two, so I don't know how they can keep things straight.
I'm not so sure they are.

Based on this...
1- OWNERS (Weeks, Pure Vacation Club Points and Hybrid Vacation Club Point Owners)

They seem to be awarding your ownership type when it comes to points ressie's vs what you used to book the ressie. Based on this wording, it seems to say if you own at least some Trust points, and book using points, you will get slotted above point based ressie's where the owners are Legacy owners who own no Trust points at all.

Which seems like that would be how a Trust points driven sales organization would want to structure things.
 

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I'm not so sure they are.

Based on this...
1- OWNERS (Weeks, Pure Vacation Club Points and Hybrid Vacation Club Point Owners)

They seem to be awarding your ownership type when it comes to points ressie's vs what you used to book the ressie. Based on this wording, it seems to say if you own at least some Trust points, and book using points, you will get slotted above point based ressie's where the owners are Legacy owners who own no Trust points at all.

Which seems like that would be how a Trust points driven sales organization would want to structure things.
Good point. This goes back to when the sales people were trying to get us to supercharge our points by buying trust points.
 

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As a personal opinion I would find it outrageous, having spent a fortune buying and enrolling all my weeks to give me almost 25,000 DC points, if I am prejudiced against for not owning pure Trust points.
 

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As a personal opinion I would find it outrageous, having spent a fortune buying and enrolling all my weeks to give me almost 25,000 DC points, if I am prejudiced against for not owning pure Trust points.
From a unit assignment or interactional standpoint I would agree. However, I'm sure you knew up front you would be playing second fiddle to trust owners from a reservation standpoint in that you would not automatically have access to trust inventory.
 

bazzap

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From a unit assignment or interactional standpoint I would agree. However, I'm sure you knew up front you would be playing second fiddle to trust owners from a reservation standpoint in that you would not automatically have access to trust inventory.
Agreed, I had no expectation of the co-mingling of Elected Points and Trust Points Inventory.
I did though expect Weeks owners on “home” resort week stays to have highest allocation priority
(or if MVC really wanted to change this at all to give all owners equal priority, be they Weeks owners, Elected Points owners or Trust Points owners)
 

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No doubt we'll always disagree about this but I still have to ask, how so? Certainly not in direct purchase prices for like intervals because in most cases it's more costly to buy the amount of DC Points that are required to book an interval purchased as a Week.
Simply because the weeks owner has made a great investment IN THAT SPECIFIC RESORT. MVCI manages the resort on behalf of the weeks owners, and MVCI does not own that resort, except for the weeks in the trust of which a trust owner has only a very small share. I cannot even begin to see the logic in saying an owner of a small portion of a trust week is equal to the owner of a full ownership week.

The relevant purchase price comparison (if it is relevant at all) would be to compare the price paid to purchase the traditional week to something like 2% of the price paid to purchase trust points (representing the portion of the points purchase applicable to the specific resort in question).
 
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Fasttr

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Simply because the weeks owner has made a great investment IN THAT SPECIFIC RESORT. MVCI manages the resort on behalf of the weeks owners, and MVCI does not own that resort, except for the weeks in the trust of which a trust owner has only a very small share. I cannot even begin to see the logic in saying an owner of a small portion of a trust week is equal to the owner of a full ownership week.

The relevant purchase price comparison (if it is relevant at all) would be to compare the price paid to purchase the traditional week to something like 2% of the price paid to purchase trust points (representing the portion of the points purchase applicable to the specific resort in question).
I think what Sue is saying is that the Trust owns the week, just like you own your week, so the Trust should be treated the same as you regarding their ownership of that specific week... and by virtue of that, whomever books that week owned by the Trust should be treated the same as you would be treated when using your ownership. Not arguing one side or the other, but I can certainly see both sides of the argument.
 

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I may be all wrong but I believe that Marriott wants us, Legacy week owners who enrolled to decide as early as possible if we want to use points instead of our enrolled week. We can do this about 18 months out and, at the same time, you can request to be put on the wait list for another location instead. In that case, you will only compete with owners who own more than 18 weeks.
I believe wait list requests are only available at 12 months, whether using elected or trust points. Would appreciate anyone’s comments. Cheers.
 

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I think what Sue is saying is that the Trust owns the week, just like you own your week, so the Trust should be treated the same as you regarding their ownership of that specific week... and by virtue of that, whomever books that week owned by the Trust should be treated the same as you would be treated when using your ownership. Not arguing one side or the other, but I can certainly see both sides of the argument.
So do they treat some who does a private rental of a week as an owner or as a rental guest?
 

Fasttr

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So do they treat some who does a private rental of a week as an owner or as a rental guest?
I believe as an owner, but others who have more experience renting will hopefully chime in.
 
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