[2016] Mega Renters

[am1]

Exactly what the club was intended for "owners personal use". Gift certificates were a way to "gift" points to friends and family not intended to be rental certificates .

Tell that to the sales people.

Glad things went the way they did a few years ago. A golden parachute.

 

[MaryBella7]

I don't believe they will continue to cancel guest reservations for much longer. In theory, it would mean owners get to vacation more because renters cannot rent out reservations. However, since there can only be one reservation per owner, owners cannot get extra rooms for their family or friends. Two parents cannot take their adult kids and grandkids on vacation unless they get a really big room, which is in short supply in normal circumstances. They will have to allow owners to start using guest certificates again. What I am hoping they do, is take our suggestion of a "Friends and Family" list where owners can have a list of people that they can make reservations for without using a guest certificate. I'm sure they would have to put a limit on how many people they can have and how often the names can be changed to keep commercial renters from abusing it, but I think a list would help your average owner who is using it for personal pleasure. For anyone not on the list, you would have to use a guest certificate. It was one of the suggestions we gave Annie Roberts at the owner's meeting.

I am sorry for being daft. I knew guest certificates were out but I didn’t realize that there could only be one reservation per owner. Is that contract, or if 2 owners are on the contract, can there be one in each name?

 

[Richelle]

I am sorry for being daft. I knew guest certificates were out but I didn’t realize that there could only be one reservation per owner. Is that contract, or if 2 owners are on the contract, can there be one in each name?

Yep. If you have two owners, each owner can hold one reservation each. This only applies if you are booking multiple rooms for the same trip. The specific wording is:

"If you are confirming more than one suite with dates that overlap within the same period, a Guest Confirmation must be added to the additional reservation(s) within 48 hours after the reservation(s) is confirmed."

I have multiple reservations in my name, but they are at different times.

 

[MaryBella7]

Yep. If you have two owners, each owner can hold one reservation each. This only applies if you are booking multiple rooms for the same trip. The specific wording is:

"If you are confirming more than one suite with dates that overlap within the same period, a Guest Confirmation must be added to the additional reservation(s) within 48 hours after the reservation(s) is confirmed."

I have multiple reservations in my name, but they are at different times.

Ok. I was making sure that it didn’t change with the new covid phased openings. Thank you!

 

[Eric B]

Is there a forum for advice on buying WM for a CW resale owner? I am all resale, and don't really care about VIP. But, I am interested in figuring out the best way to get access to WM. Thanks!

Yep. If you have two owners, each owner can hold one reservation each. This only applies if you are booking multiple rooms for the same trip. The specific wording is:

"If you are confirming more than one suite with dates that overlap within the same period, a Guest Confirmation must be added to the additional reservation(s) within 48 hours after the reservation(s) is confirmed."

I have multiple reservations in my name, but they are at different times.

Is that on the basis of ownership of the specific contract used for the reservation or of the account the contract is associated with? I'm pretty sure it's the account because there isn't a limitation I've seen preventing you from using points on a contract for reservations for someone else on the account, but wanted to get that clarified. That seems supported by the wording quoted as well.

On an interesting note, our account has two versions of our names, one with middle names included and one without, making it four options for names to list as who is staying in a reservation for myself and my wife. I haven't tried it yet, but suspect that this would likely allow me to have four overlapping reservations. I think it was the result of they're having included the middle names on a deed for one of our contracts.

 

[Richelle]

Is that on the basis of ownership of the specific contract used for the reservation or of the account the contract is associated with? I'm pretty sure it's the account because there isn't a limitation I've seen preventing you from using points on a contract for reservations for someone else on the account, but wanted to get that clarified. That seems supported by the wording quoted as well.

On an interesting note, our account has two versions of our names, one with middle names included and one without, making it four options for names to list as who is staying in a reservation for myself and my wife. I haven't tried it yet, but suspect that this would likely allow me to have four overlapping reservations. I think it was the result of they're having included the middle names on a deed for one of our contracts.

It is per account. I think you’re right about the additional names. If you’re able to, I say book a few low points reservations and see if one gets canceled to test the theory.

 

[bendadin]

Is that on the basis of ownership of the specific contract used for the reservation or of the account the contract is associated with? I'm pretty sure it's the account because there isn't a limitation I've seen preventing you from using points on a contract for reservations for someone else on the account, but wanted to get that clarified. That seems supported by the wording quoted as well.

On an interesting note, our account has two versions of our names, one with middle names included and one without, making it four options for names to list as who is staying in a reservation for myself and my wife. I haven't tried it yet, but suspect that this would likely allow me to have four overlapping reservations. I think it was the result of they're having included the middle names on a deed for one of our contracts.

It will work. They say that they take the names off the deed so maybe one time it closed with your middle initial, maybe another time it didn't. I have my name, middle name, middle initial and last name and I am positive that I never closed anything like that. I can make reservations in any of these names. My guy has two identical with his initial, and one without his initial so I have no idea of knowing which one I used unless the warning pops up. I also have a son with the same name except on the reservation they drop the suffix off, so again, no idea which name listing the reservation is actually in.

 

[dgalati]

Tell that to the sales people.

Glad things went the way they did a few years ago. A golden parachute.

Everything happens for a reason. This year was the first time in several years that I didn't buy up to 1 million resale points for my personal use. What a blessing it was when Wyndham informed me my negative points balance would "0" out at end of 2019 but starting in 2020 Wyndham would be charging $12/1000 on all negative points balances.

 

[dgalati]

Tell that to the sales people.

Glad things went the way they did a few years ago. A golden parachute.

Can you discuss the details of your golden parachute or are you still under a nondisclosure agreement?

 

[dgalati]

It is per account. I think you’re right about the additional names. If you’re able to, I say book a few low points reservations and see if one gets canceled to test the theory.

Test the theory or "loophole". LOL Mega renters exploited every loophole to their advantage.

 

[ronparise]

Can you discuss the details of your golden parachute or are you still under a nondisclosure agreement?

Im not am1 but i got what he calls a golden parachute too. And if his NDA was the same as mine, yea, its a forever thing

Test the theory or "loophole". LOL Mega renters exploited every loophole to their advantage.

I think what that made what I did possible wasnt so much the loopholes I exploited but rather that Wyndham had just completed a round of rule changes that they thought would put an end to the megarenter problem, Basically they let their guard down

the loopholes I took advantage of were

the points credit pool,
cheap VIP contracts
VIP contracts with only resale contracts (I think I was the first to figure this out working with another tugger)
cancel and rebook and upgrade

and the big one that brought the house down, was Wyndhams silo management, Their right hand didnt know what their left hand was doing. One group was helping me put everything into the points credit pool and make reservations with guest confirms. Their job was to help the owners. And another group was buying the stripped contracts for more than what I paid for them. Their job was to accumulate cheap inventory to resell at full price The end result was that I was making three years of reservations paying less than a year of maintenance fees

It was a pretty good 6 year run

And the crazy thing was the reaction of the Wyndham lawyer and his staff when I told him what I was doing.

Their first offer was to say If I signed everything back to Wyndham, they wouldnt sue me. I said no to that. A week or so later they invited me to make a counter offer, I asked for a million dollars. We settled somewhere in between.

 

[dgalati]

Im not am1 but i got what he calls a golden parachute too. And if his NDA was the same as mine, yea, its a forever thing


I think what that made what I did possible wasnt so much the loopholes I exploited but rather that Wyndham had just completed a round of rule changes that they thought would put an end to the megarenter problem, Basically they let their guard down

the loopholes I took advantage of were

the points credit pool,
cheap VIP contracts
VIP contracts with only resale contracts (I think I was the first to figure this out working with another tugger)
cancel and rebook and upgrade

and the big one that brought the house down, was Wyndhams silo management, Their right hand didnt know what their left hand was doing. One group was helping me put everything into the points credit pool and make reservations with guest confirms. Their job was to help the owners. And another group was buying the stripped contracts for more than what I paid for them. Their job was to accumulate cheap inventory to resell at full price The end result was that I was making three years of reservations paying less than a year of maintenance fees

It was a pretty good 6 year run

And the crazy thing was the reaction of the Wyndham lawyer and his staff when I told him what I was doing.

Their first offer was to say If I signed everything back to Wyndham, they wouldnt sue me. I said no to that. A week or so later they invited me to make a counter offer, I asked for a million dollars. We settled somewhere in between.

I can tell you first hand Wyndham still doesn't know what the right and left hands are doing. Ovations will not take a deed back unless you own it for a year but they are buying inventory through third parties using their preferred resale brokers. I exploited a few loopholes over the last several years but I was a trader of deeds. My strategy was to use all current use year points for my personal use then sell the deeds to cover any maintenance fees paid during my ownership. My goal was to have a ownership cost of $0/1000. The negative balance put a damper on the strategy but I have navigated around it for now. The timing of when deeds came in was very important as it is now. Late fall will get you 2 years of use for under 6 months of paying maintenance fees.

 

[ronparise]

I can tell you first hand Wyndham still doesn't know what the right and left hands are doing. Ovations will not take a deed back unless you own it for a year but they are buying inventory through third parties using their preferred resale brokers. I exploited a few loopholes over the last several years but I was a trader of deeds. My strategy was to use all current use year points for my personal use then sell the deeds to cover any maintenance fees paid during my ownership. My goal was to have a ownership cost of $0/1000. The negative balance put a damper on the strategy but I have navigated around it for now. The timing of when deeds came in was very important as it is now. Late fall will get you 2 years of use for under 6 months of paying maintenance fees.

somewhere here on tug is a post where I predicted that a whole new batch of owners would discover new loopholes and exploit them. I think thats happening and you are a prime example.

 

[dgalati]

somewhere here on tug is a post where I predicted that a whole new batch of owners would discover new loopholes and exploit them. I think thats happening and you are a prime example.

I call it taking what they are giving. Many VIP owners say its abusing the system but they themselves are doing the same. If you consider the resale points that they use as VIP benefits. We all know its a loophole that many VIP owners have exploited. It can be eliminated any day just as cancel and rebook was to limit the abuse. If a loophole is available why not use it to your advantage?

 

[Richelle]

I call it taking what they are giving. Many VIP owners say its abusing the system but they themselves are doing the same. If you consider the resale points that they use as VIP benefits. We all know its a loophole that many VIP owners have exploited. It can be eliminated any day just as cancel and rebook was to limit the abuse. If a loophole is available why not use it to your advantage?

I'm not sure it's as simple as you think to close that loophole. I don't think any of us can say with any authority how hard or easy it would be to close that loophole. It's true if they wanted to close it, they could find a way to close it. How hard it would be, is a different story. You have to factor the time and costs to change the booking system on how it treats resale points. We don't have enough information about the system to know what it would take to make that kind of change. There are many factors they have to consider before making that kind of change. Logistics is just one factor. Then you have to consider the consequences it will have. Either on the system as a whole or with owners. Again, without being on the inside, it's difficult to say what it would take, how it would happen, and what other factors they are considering.

 

[dgalati]

I'm not sure it's as simple as you think to close that loophole. I don't think any of us can say with any authority how hard or easy it would be to close that loophole. It's true if they wanted to close it, they could find a way to close it. How hard it would be, is a different story. You have to factor the time and costs to change the booking system on how it treats resale points. We don't have enough information about the system to know what it would take to make that kind of change. There are many factors they have to consider before making that kind of change. Logistics is just one factor. Then you have to consider the consequences it will have. Either on the system as a whole or with owners. Again, without being on the inside, it's difficult to say what it would take, how it would happen, and what other factors they are considering.

Point was if its available to exploit and use why not? Until they close it make the best use of it!

 

[am1]

Point was if its available to exploit and use why not? Until they close it make the best use of it!

I did cancel/rebook I think better then anyone. For the upgrades I started clicking on the units in between what I had and what I wanted. When there was too many I would book them and cancel them originally would not come back till the next day when inventory would refresh. For guest confirmations I would book Friday - Sunday, Sunday to Friday then Friday to Sunday. Add the same two Names on each reservation for 1 guest confirmation fee as it was a continuing reservation then cancel Sunday - Monday and each guest had their weekend reservation in their name. Worked best in AC where people only want Fri-Sun. 10 reservations Limit in each account for each resort I got around by having 3 platinum accounts (with only buying 308k retail and picing 508k.). Then using other people’s accounts with free guest confirmations for the overflow. I fell into buying resale el cids where vip stayed with the contract. 1 contract took so long to transfer it reverted back to El Cid points but took 6 all inclusive vacations there using only points as the bracelets were free by attending presentations. Tower 6 at Bonnet Creek inventory starting for Thanksgiving week was released as the remodel would finish before then and I booked about half the tower. Pretty last minute to fully profit off it but was very happy.

Born out of necessity as my account was locked and could not adjust reservations was flying to Florida to add guest names at the resorts. Bonnet Creek allowed unlimited at a timeAnd then restricted to only to reservations per owner could be changed into guest names at a time. Once had a guest check into a 4 bedroom and then leave but another guest arrived to stay in the same unit. It was day 7 of their so free Cleaning or else I would have had to pay for a full cleaning. Daytona beach change names into guest names for the following week on site for free then only allowed day of. In 24 hours did name changes in Orlando, off to Daytona Beach, down to Pompano Beach, went to the Orange Bowl, next to Daytona Beach for more check ins then back to Orlando for New Years Eve.
Transferred 4 million points to Wyndham Rewards where I still have some.

When combining member numbers new guest confirmations were added to the account and duplicates of reservations with same confirmation number unless reservation was made the day before the reservation was complete. Then different confirmation number but same underlying room number. When cancelling duplicate reservations points went back to account but room never did as still held by keeping one of those confirmations in the account. Explained this to VCs and owner care and no one cared. Same phone conversation could also include how last night the website was down and could not cancel reservation at 15 day window and I wanted my points back and they would put me on hold to contact the IT department about it. I had video/screenshots but most times they would comeback and say IT had no known outages and if their were they would no about it. Once woke up to 50 million or so extra points in my account. Contact Wyndham and they will look into it nothing becomes of it as it was in December and points were set to expire at the end of the month. Not sure how many of my points got pushed forward and used theirs or how many of mine I lost as I did not want to deposit into RCI.
Had a 800k Las Vegas resale contract that was giving be vip benefits on two occasions almost upgraded it to 1 million and 1 thousand retail pr points. First time the deal died as co owner was not there to sign so everything was set up except their signature. Second time was when Wyndham corporate knew that contract should not be giving vip benefits and everything was set except at the end the sales person said they were not allowed to sell to me.
In the end I was asked very few questions about any of this and no one at Wyndham cared. Now other then a memory and complicate story it’s all outdated.
Along the way I sold my Wyndham stock as I saw first hand how the company was run but as long as they were making sales and even better using the Waam model Wall Street was happy.
But I am not allowed to disclose anything in regards to a settlement I imagine forever.

 

[dgalati]

I did cancel/rebook I think better then anyone. For the upgrades I started clicking on the units in between what I had and what I wanted. When there was too many I would book them and cancel them originally would not come back till the next day when inventory would refresh. For guest confirmations I would book Friday - Sunday, Sunday to Friday then Friday to Sunday. Add the same two Names on each reservation for 1 guest confirmation fee as it was a continuing reservation then cancel Sunday - Monday and each guest had their weekend reservation in their name. Worked best in AC where people only want Fri-Sun. 10 reservations Limit in each account for each resort I got around by having 3 platinum accounts (with only buying 308k retail and picing 508k.). Then using other people’s accounts with free guest confirmations for the overflow. I fell into buying resale el cids where vip stayed with the contract. 1 contract took so long to transfer it reverted back to El Cid points but took 6 all inclusive vacations there using only points as the bracelets were free by attending presentations. Tower 6 at Bonnet Creek inventory starting for Thanksgiving week was released as the remodel would finish before then and I booked about half the tower. Pretty last minute to fully profit off it but was very happy.

Born out of necessity as my account was locked and could not adjust reservations was flying to Florida to add guest names at the resorts. Bonnet Creek allowed unlimited at a timeAnd then restricted to only to reservations per owner could be changed into guest names at a time. Once had a guest check into a 4 bedroom and then leave but another guest arrived to stay in the same unit. It was day 7 of their so free Cleaning or else I would have had to pay for a full cleaning. Daytona beach change names into guest names for the following week on site for free then only allowed day of. In 24 hours did name changes in Orlando, off to Daytona Beach, down to Pompano Beach, went to the Orange Bowl, next to Daytona Beach for more check ins then back to Orlando for New Years Eve.
Transferred 4 million points to Wyndham Rewards where I still have some.

When combining member numbers new guest confirmations were added to the account and duplicates of reservations with same confirmation number unless reservation was made the day before the reservation was complete. Then different confirmation number but same underlying room number. When cancelling duplicate reservations points went back to account but room never did as still held by keeping one of those confirmations in the account. Explained this to VCs and owner care and no one cared. Same phone conversation could also include how last night the website was down and could not cancel reservation at 15 day window and I wanted my points back and they would put me on hold to contact the IT department about it. I had video/screenshots but most times they would comeback and say IT had no known outages and if their were they would no about it. Once woke up to 50 million or so extra points in my account. Contact Wyndham and they will look into it nothing becomes of it as it was in December and points were set to expire at the end of the month. Not sure how many of my points got pushed forward and used theirs or how many of mine I lost as I did not want to deposit into RCI.
Had a 800k Las Vegas resale contract that was giving be vip benefits on two occasions almost upgraded it to 1 million and 1 thousand retail pr points. First time the deal died as co owner was not there to sign so everything was set up except their signature. Second time was when Wyndham corporate knew that contract should not be giving vip benefits and everything was set except at the end the sales person said they were not allowed to sell to me.
In the end I was asked very few questions about any of this and no one at Wyndham cared. Now other then a memory and complicate story it’s all outdated.
Along the way I sold my Wyndham stock as I saw first hand how the company was run but as long as they were making sales and even better using the Waam model Wall Street was happy.
But I am not allowed to disclose anything in regards to a settlement I imagine forever.

It was fun until the lights came on and they yelled last call? I hope you exited with some sort of compensation other then the threat of not being sued.

 

[am1]

Yes. I also got my mornings back to do other stuff, my nights back to sleep, not have to book, cancel and upgrade reservation from open to close. Refresh for new inventory all the time and not have to check e-mails 24/7. Also not have to worry about being on Eastern Time. Travelled to London and Paris, Las Vegas and California and never had to keep my clocks on Eastern Time. I do miss helping people travel and hearing back from how happy they were to have 4 bedrooms/4 bathrooms and a kitchen bigger then theirs at home.

 

[CO skier]

Yes. I also got my mornings back to do other stuff, my nights back to sleep, not have to book, cancel and upgrade reservation from open to close. Refresh for new inventory all the time and not have to check e-mails 24/7. Also not have to worry about being on Eastern Time. Travelled to London and Paris, Las Vegas and California and never had to keep my clocks on Eastern Time. I do miss helping people travel and hearing back from how happy they were to have 4 bedrooms/4 bathrooms and a kitchen bigger then theirs at home.

And the Owners who invested into Wyndham for their vacations, who can now and are actually booking their vacations at full points cost, instead of cheating the system through cancel/rebook for a rental in a "4 bedrooms/4 bathrooms and a kitchen bigger then theirs at home" are the winners over your rental "people."

 

[am1]

And the Owners who invested into Wyndham for their vacations, who can now and are actually booking their vacations at full points cost, instead of cheating the system through cancel/rebook for a rental in a "4 bedrooms/4 bathrooms and a kitchen bigger then theirs at home" are the winners over your rental "people."

If you are still bothered by it. Do not forget who was the one who promised myself, other owners etc how it could work. I just worked in the space I was provided. I am no smarter then any other owners who went on a timeshare tour and got bit.

 

[dgalati]

If you are still bothered by it. Do not forget who was the one who promised myself, other owners etc how it could work. I just worked in the space I was provided. I am no smarter then any other owners who went on a timeshare tour and got bit.

A few posters forget Wyndham is the largest Mega renter. They rent owners points to their advantage while taking inventory away from owners looking to book personal reservations. How many times have you tried to book a vacation and could not find availability but could rent from Extra Holidays?

And the Owners who invested into Wyndham for their vacations, who can now and are actually booking their vacations at full points cost, instead of cheating the system through cancel/rebook for a rental in a "4 bedrooms/4 bathrooms and a kitchen bigger then theirs at home" are the winners over your rental "people."

No one was cheating the system with cancel and re book. It was also a way sales sold the VIP benefit as a way to rent points to cover maintenance fees. I sat through many presentations where sales touted this loophole to sell the VIP ownership.
I feel the real winners are the people who learn the system and make it work for their travel needs. I own but can rent from a VIP for 50% less then owning and paying maintenance fees.

 

[Richelle]

A few posters forget Wyndham is the largest Mega renter. They rent owners points to their advantage while taking inventory away from owners looking to book personal reservations. How many times have you tried to book a vacation and could not find availability but could rent from Extra Holidays?

Extra holidays come from both Wyndham owned inventory and reservations made by owners and given to EH to rent out. Its a way for owners to offset their maintenance fees and for Wyndham to get new sales leads. They are a for-profit company after all. EH has a terrible return in my opinion and is still risky because they might only rent a portion of their reservation, but it's there. It means owners don't have to go through the trouble of finding a renter themselves, processing payment, using a guest certificate, handling any questions or complaints, and running the risk that someone does a chargeback. Wyndham does all that. Marketing, reservation management, payment processing, chargeback disputes, etc. For their efforts, Wyndham takes a 40% cut. Whether it's worth 40% is debatable, but I personally don't think it's worth it. Then again, I already have a few people I rent to if I know I'll have extra points that I cannot rollover. Not everyone can figure out that process, or have renters they can trust.

As far as renting from VIPs, what you forget is while renting from VIPs is great, there are some drawbacks. First, many renters don't offer refunds. So if your plans change and you cannot go, you lose that money. Renting is not a good option for people who's plans and work schedules can change. With ownership, you can at least get your points back if you cancel more then 15 days out or get the insurance. Someone who has an unpredictable schedule will more likely get insurance. Second, the 50% discount happens at the 60-day mark. Beach locations during summer break are hard to get at the 60-day mark unless you're ok with a one-bedroom. People that need three or four bedrooms have to book far out, so they don't get that 50% discount. They pay full price. Your options are limited if you want a discount. Third, It's hard to find someone who can book for $7 or less since CWA mf went over $6. Maintenance fees can be as low at $4.27 per 1,000 points. Buying on the resale market will not get you VIP, but it will give you more flexibility to reschedule, and gives you more control over your reservations. If you need that 3 or 4 bedrooms, you can book it farther out, cheaper then renting from a VIP if your maintenance fees are less then $7 per 1,000. You do have the financial commitment of maintenance fees, but with Ovations, it's easier than ever to dump your timeshare. Especially for prime contracts that have low maintenance fees. If you'd prefer not to let Wyndham have free inventory to sell, or Ovation goes away, you won't have a problem finding a taker for that low mf contract. I know you like to repeat over and over how you like renting from a VIP, you should also provide the disclaimer that the discount is for reservations of 60 days or less. The salespeople like to leave out that important tidbit of information to make people think they are getting a better deal then they are. You're not a salesperson, so don't forget to add the disclaimer. "I can rent from a VIP at a 50% discount on my reservations made less than 60 days from check-in".

 

[Eric B]

Gotta agree with @Richelle, The way I look at it, my Bali Hai contracts cost me $3.77 + $0.64 per thousand points, which is already a 37.3% discount on the CWA costs. When I book as a VIPG in the discount window, I can get 35% off from that and the occasional upgrade, so I'm not really looking for trying to rent from a VIPP in the 50% discount window. I kind of figure that unless it's someone I know really well, they probably wouldn't pass enough of the savings on to beat what I already get, plus I am able to make plans further in advance.

Frankly, with all the last minute options in the shoulder and low seasons that are out there in all the other systems it's not too tough to find small TS unit availability inexpensively without renting from a Wyndham VIPP.

 

[dgalati]

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